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XY 3v3 Singles Metagame Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Battle Spot' started by JabbaTheGriffin, Nov 4, 2013.

  1. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    If someone disconnects on you, it counts as your win. It won't show up on the battle after, but the stats will update after that.
  2. Atomsage

    Atomsage

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  3. ShiningRarity

    ShiningRarity

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    Just hit 1800 rating. My current team looks like this:

    Togekiss, Bold with lefties, max HP and Def. Standard Paraflinch Set

    Mega Mawile, Adamant with Mawilite, dual stabs, Sucker punch and Stone Edge.

    Mega Gengar, Timid with dual stabs and sub-disable

    Cloyster with Sash, Adamant with Razor Shell + Standard Cloyster fare

    Talonflame with Orb, Adamant with Follow Me and Tailwind + Dual Stabs

    Dragonite with Lum Berry, Adamant with DDance, EQ, Outrage and Fire Punch


    Notes on each one:

    Togekiss is pretty solid overall. I stingily think this (Paraflinch) is the best set as Gleam and Aura Sphere don't hit hard enough even when super effective to justify their use over this set. The Paraflinch core, although definitely has some trouble with Electrics, mostly gets the job done while keeping Togekiss healthy. Roost is necessary to tank hits, and Nasty plot is great for setting up on weaker mons that can be out healed with roost. Max Def is better then SpD right now IMO since there are a much larger amount of Physical Attackers. Being able to take 2 hits from Talonflame and live is just too important to give up. Togekiss is great for a team looking for a check to the glass canon speedsters out there like Mega Gengar and Greninja, as Twave is pretty much lights out for them.

    Mawile is alright I guess. It gets the job done, although I suspect that Mega Kangaskhan might be better at this role. That being said, those looking for a powerhouse Fairy should look no further. This thing punches holes in everything. Speed is the biggest issue, but smart use of Sucker Punch can go a long ways. Stone Edge I'm iffy on. It's possible that Swords Dance would be better.

    Gengar is pretty good. Honestly, keeping levitate when megaing would usually be better then getting Shadow Tag, although it does allow for some mind games against Earthquake users. Make sure you don't need the immunity before powering up. Or what might just be better is using Normal Gengar. Speed is nice against Greninja and Noivern, but that's about it, and Life Orb hits just as hard as Mega. At any rate, Sub-Disable allows for the most survivability for Gengar, and is good for scouting purposes. Having a Sub stick is often times game. I go for Sludge Bomb over better coverage options to take out Fairies not named Mawile and because it's the highest base power stab move Gengar learns, which means that it hits stuff neutrally the hardest. You can throw in Focus Blast here if you really hate Tyranitar. Tbolt and Gleam don't lead to shaving off an attack for the mons that you would actually kill with them, (Still not 1-shotting most dragons with only 80 base power) so I don't see much reason to run them. As for the best set, it might be the 3 attack + Destiny Bond set, although it's a bit more suicidal. Lastly, Perish Trap is garbage here since the format is full of aggressive mons that can deal more then 3/4ths of its heath in the turn it goes for perish song.

    Cloyster IDK. Its sash gets popped by literally every special attacker in the game it doesn't resist. That being said, if they don't have priority/WoW/Twave, this guy can go the distance. However, most good teams have at least one of those, so it's more of a noob stomper then a high level mon. It usually rides the bench, but smart use can early steal games. Not totally sold, but if you're looking for ways to cheese free wins other then minimize spam, this is a good place to start.

    Talonflame is Talonflame. The core is its duo stabs, everything else is just gravy, with this set being clear evidence of that. Me first is a toy move I'm using just for kicks. I barely use it, but it does has its uses, largely outraging Dragons. Every once in a blue moon it will be useful and do stuff no other move can do. Those times are few and far between though, and you're largely better off using something else. Tailwind combos well with Mawile and any other slow but strong mons you may have. You can run any other move you want in those 2 slots, just make sure you have Brave Bird and Flare Blitz. For what it's worth, I think full aggression is better then the Roost/Lefties sets. The 3v3 meta is much more aggressive and there are much better leftovers users out there, which matters since you only get to use 1.

    Dragonite is a Champion, seriously. No entry hazards means Multiscale 24/7 which means you're almost guaranteed a Dragon Dance. Full Health Dragonite beats every other dragon out there while usually getting a Dragon Dance in, just watch out for Scarfers and Sash users. Lum Berry is amazing on this set. It makes Outraging much more safe if they don't have a Fairy since it can remove the confusion. It also lets Dragonite beat most sets of Rotom-W since most rely on WoW to cripple Dragonite, and Dragonite can 2-shot Rotom with Outrage. Because of this, Dragonite is a good lead against a team that you suspect will try to use status effects. Seriously, Dragonite is a beast, and arguably the best offensive Dragon right now, beating out even Garchomp IMO. Garchomp needs to use a Band to reach the power of a +1 Dragonte, and still won't reach the speed, but Dragonite doesn't have to deal with getting locked into a move. Losing immunity to Electric and TWave sucks, but not being able to be 1-shotted by almost everything is really good. This guy is greatly underrated, (Given that he isn't seen anywhere near as much as Garchomp) and if you're looking for some more firepower while being deceptively bulky, Dragonite has plenty to offer to the table.
  4. Guilan

    Guilan

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    I was checking the viability of Magician Delphox in the 3v3 metagame, and got surprised. Watch this in your VS Recorders:
    N8EG-WWWW-WWW3-BFMS
  5. Mashymre

    Mashymre

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    Just wanted to chime in here and agree with brobat in singing staraptors praises. currently sitting at 1780~ rating and staraptor is a big part of my success. Adamant, reckless, scarfraptor actually hits harder with BB than adamant, banded talonflame. Staraptor also has the benefit of being somewhat unpredictable: I find that often times my opponent will leave a pokemon in (not expecting the choice scarf) and get absolutely vaporized by BB. In a recent battle I had, my opponent tried to d-dance with his char-x only to get 2hko'd, as he certainly did not predict the scarf and ended up being slower, even at +1. Having a faster u-turn than talonflame is also a boon, and close combat offers some situational utility against tyranitar and kang.

    Now, for all the good things ive said about this mon, im not in any way implying he is better than talonflame. There are some situations where priority bravebird will come through where a really fast bravebird cannot. Strictly speaking, because of the insurance +1 priority provides, talonflame is a better revenge killer. However, Staraptors scouting ability, raw power, and "surprise!" factor has cemented his position as an invaluable part of my team and-along with rotom-w-the pokemon i most often put in my lead spot.
    CoolStoryBrobat likes this.
  6. Atomsage

    Atomsage

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    You could always bring both.

    You use Staraptor to dent the opponent's pokemon and waste their resources. When Staraptor faints, you bring in Talonflame to clean up.
  7. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    Dem rock weaknesses tho...The other issue is if the opponent brings their own Talonflame, most of the time you're taking a huge risk. Though it is a cool concept...Aegislash also creates problems for this core. But that's why one has teammates, I guess
  8. Varnithis

    Varnithis

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    I've actually swapped Mega Khan for Mega Mawhile because far more people are prepared for Khan. My Mawile is the same as yours, except I have Sucker Punch, Play Rough, Brick Break, and SD. My reasoning is the only things that Iron head out damages play rough on are literally the pure fairies and Gardeviour. And in all those cases, play rough is enough, or sucker punch. Brick Break tears Ferrothorn a new one, and ruins dual screens. And if you get SD up, its almost a win condition.

    EDIT: I overlooked Iron head hitting Ice types Super Effectively and doing more damage than Brick Break or Play Rough. However, the only two I can think of off the top of my head I'd love having Iron Head for are Articuno and Avalugg.
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2013
  9. IcyClub

    IcyClub

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    Hey I been getting some problems with Talonflame and Goodra for my mono ghost team, I can change any of my main pokemon as long as its part Ghost. Oh and I can change any move as long as you think its going to help me out :)

    Am making a fun team in another site called neoseeker, enough of that. Well my team is:
  10. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    If you want an answer for Talonflame that's part Ghost, wait for Jellicent after Pokebank. That or Cofagrigus.

    As for Goodra, anything with strong Physical attacks is enough to damage it greatly.
  11. Varnithis

    Varnithis

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    Anything with a STAB psyshock can surprise Goodra as well. I was caught off guard by a Delphox running flamethrower, Psyshock, Solorbeam, Calm mind. He lead Greninja, I switched Goodra in on him, and instead of doing what 99% of people do, using ice beam and getting OHKO'd back with Flamethrower, he switched to delphox. I thought, Eh, I'll Draco meteor it. Then I got psyshocked. Ouch.
  12. Mashymre

    Mashymre

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    Just finished playing a batch of games at 1800, some random thoughts:

    Mandibuzz has got to be one of the most slept on pokemon for this format. 110/105/95 bulk is titanic, you all already know about knock off, and a fast taunt is just the kicker. 80 base speed with this kind of bulk is incredible. As I got higher on the ladder, Mandibuzz became more and more common (and so did stall in general, for that matter). I feel that the japanese are way ahead of us on this one: they've figured out unconventional pokemon that are really effective in this format, and mandibuzz is a foremost example.

    Put weavile on the threat list too. Not too many pokemon that personify "hyper offense" better than weavile. I usually see him run with a sash/counter set, which can be difficult to play around in a 3 mon game.

    The more stall/defensive cores I run into, the more I wish i brought CM reuniclus. Trick room is probably the more effective set up to 1700, but then you'll probably want to bring the CM set along as insurance against these increasingly defensive teams. In 3s, you can afford to have one slot on your team occupied by a specialist mon who you wont break out often, but will get results when you do.

    I'm also a bit intrigued by heliolisk as a lead. voltswitch/hp ice/glare/ and then either surf or tbolt seems to be the common moveset. lots of utility with voltswitch and glare, and can surprise stuff like lum/swords dance chomp that gets sent out first because your opponent was expecting a rotom.
    Guilan likes this.
  13. TheJJT

    TheJJT

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    So I've been aware of competitive battling for a long time now, though I'm one of those people that's always played with my favourites even when that means I get hammered (mainly Dragons what can I say since Lance in the Gen 1 league I've loved em) However I thought I'd try my hand at putting a little 3v3 team together with hopefully some unexpected twists which will give me an edge. So here goes;

    Dragonite
    Adamant
    Multiscale
    Leftovers
    Att 252
    Spe 252
    Sp.D 4
    Dragon Dance
    Outrage
    Earthquake
    Fire Punch

    Espeon
    Timid
    Magic Bounce
    Light Clay
    HP 252
    Def 4
    Spd. 252
    Reflect
    Light Screen
    Batton Pass
    Psychic/Psyshock

    Staraptor
    Adamant
    Reckless
    Choice Scarf
    HP 4
    Atk 252
    Spe 252
    Brave Bird
    Double-Edge
    Close Combat
    U-Turn

    Lucario
    Modest
    Lucarioite
    Def 4
    Sp.Atk 252
    Spe 252
    Flash Cannon
    Aura Sphere
    Nasty Plot
    Substitute/Shadow Ball

    Ampharos
    Modest
    Ampharosite
    Def 128
    Sp.A 252
    Sp.D 128
    Dragon Pulse
    Focus Blast
    Power Gem
    Thunder Bolt

    Gastrodon
    Relaxed
    Storm Drain
    Rocky Helmet
    HP 252
    Def 252
    Sp.D 4
    Earthquake
    Scald
    Ice Beam
    Recover

    The Dragonite of course is self explanatory in a meta that is increasingly lacking entry hazards Multiscale is just a pure gift (and of course as I mentioned - one of my favourites.)

    Dual Screen Espeon is kinda the clinch of this team but I'll get into that a bit later. The only choice that is pushing me is Psychic or Psyshock - the former being very useful for Ghosts however reading through I feel Psyshock could be favourable to take down Goodra.

    Lots of praise being sung for Staraptor and as I've always liked it, it seemed to make sense to have him as my second physical threat.

    My Mega Lucario may seem a little odd, special focused. However I feel with Substitute, dual screen support and Nasty Plot it has the opportunity to be an unexpected threat especially for those pesky fairies. That and the use of Aura Sphere can help with evasion teams. Of course getting the set up will be difficult but I've always liked a challenge.

    Mega Ampharos WHY?! I hear you cry that 45 base speed! I hear you and I once again raise you Dual Screen support. With base Defense of 105 and base Sp.D of 110 + spread investment + Screen support I am hoping to give Ampharos enough solidity to tank hits and allow the power house that is 165 base Sp.A with full investment a chance to shine along with decent stab and coverage moves.

    Finally we have Gastrodon. Full Def investment should give the Mudslug a fair amount of stalling ability, along with scald and earthquake for stab (and potential burn) Ice Beam for the Dragons and Recover to complete the set.

    There is also the option of substituting Staraptor with Sheer Force Nidoking since he's another beast with Dual Screen support
    I have no idea how this team will fare in the metagame but I figured I'd give it a shot. If you could tell me what you think that would be great.
    Cheers!
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  14. DGpegasus

    DGpegasus

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    Why would you have heal pulse on Lucario in singles?
  15. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
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    Your Gastrodon has Assault Vest, but the thing is, that item prevents you from using Toxic and Recover..
  16. TheJJT

    TheJJT

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    See... this is why I put this here because clearly I did not think all of this through properly! Two derps caught before I wasted too much time training things. Muchly appreciated. I clearly -didn't- read the effects of Heal Pulse properly and I'd utterly forgotten the inability to use status moves given by Assault Vest, time for a little rethinking.

    Perhaps throwing Nasty Plot in place of Heal Pulse and then dropping Substitute for Shadow Ball for the added coverage.

    As for Gastrodon possibly switching out Toxic for Ice Beam and Recover for Rock Slide/Stone Edge again for coverage?
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2013
  17. farranpoison

    farranpoison

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    As a user of Gastrodon myself... no. Just no. You can replace Toxic for Ice Beam if you want to hit Dragons hard, but never ever give up Recover. Gastrodon, when fully invested in Defense, is still somewhat lacking. Recovery helps it a lot when tanking hits. If you want an item on it, use Leftovers for added recovery or Rocky Helmet to discourage physical attackers.

    Edit: Oops, forgot why I wanted to post in the first place. Been thinking if Steelix has any merit in this metagame. I was looking at the 5th gen analysis, and thought this might work.

    Steelix @ Chesto Berry
    Relaxed Nature
    252 HP/220 Def/36 SpD
    -Earthquake
    -Gyro Ball
    -Stone Edge/Toxic
    -Rest

    Chesto Rest set, essentially. Steelix is goddamn tough and can take a few beatings before it has to heal up. Stone Edge murders Talonflame, though Toxic is probably preferred considering Steelix doesn't have a whole lot of attack to wear down foes. I don't know if this would work or not, any thoughts?
  18. TheJJT

    TheJJT

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    Well then I guess the vest is out the window in favour of the Helmet. Cheers for the advice.
  19. Mashymre

    Mashymre

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    For your first real competitive team, I think you've done a really good job. you've managed to create something that isnt cookie cutter that is still threatening. For 6v6, i think you have a perfectly viable team, assuming you make the changes that others have already recommended.

    For 3v3 however, I think there are some things you need to consider (or reconsider):

    1. Mega Ampharos. If you are running a mega that is only viable with dual screens support, I have to wonder, why not just run a mega thats good outside of screens, and is even better WITH screens? Running mega ampharos in a 3 mon squad necessitates bringing your espeon, so your going to end up with only 1 free slot whenever you want to bring amp. In a format where a huge part of the game is being flexible and countering what you think your opponent will bring, being forced to bring 2 pokes just because one of them looks like it will be useful is very limiting. If you had something like Mega Kang (just as an example), youve got a mega that can be successfully run with or without espeon, which gives you a lot more freedom in picking your team. I dont think M-ampharos is completely unusable, and you can be successful with it, but its not optimal. more power to you if you still want to use it, but keep in mind that dragon, ground, and fairy are VERY common types in 3s and in general.

    2. Talonflame butchers your team. The only mon you have that isnt 2hko'd (assuming reflect isnt up) is ampharos. if, just as a random example, you went with a team of espeon/gastro/lucario in a particular match, you would be completely at the mercy of talonflame, since espeon is OHKO'd by CB bravebird and nothing else can switch into it safely. Talonflame is the #1 threat to your team that I can think of, and due to how common it is, you may need to re-evaluate how you are going to handle it.

    3. Weakness policy is probably a better option on dragonite than leftovers in 3. Getting that +2 attack and dragon dancing on the same turn will more often than not bring a very quick end to the match. 3s matches are--usually-- fast paced and hyper offensive, so leftovers isnt really optimal. you are running an offensive dragonite, so it makes the most sense to get an item that can contribute to your offensive presence and make the most use of multiscale.

    thats all I can think of right now, and of course im just some guy so take my opinion with a grain of salt.
    Guilan likes this.
  20. DrLime

    DrLime

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    Currently at 1816 with the following team http://pastebin.com/i4Hic3TG

    Let me tell you, Breloom is a house. Beats lots of random stuff and even Talonflame on the switch. Handles Khan and Rotom-W like a pro. Also can beat ANY slower non-grass type almost guaranteed. The things that do beat it get rocked by Talonflame. I find myself barely using anything but Rotom-W, Breloom, and Talonflame (Why no megaloom gamefreak?).

    I really like my team but Garchomp feels weak. Probably gonna try Lum Dance.

    Tell me what you guys think.
  21. TheJJT

    TheJJT

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    Cheers for the reply and the compliments, perhaps I'll have to find some friends to try it out in 6v6.

    As for the rest;
    I think the reason I want to use MAmphy is because others do it better, and the idea of having synergy between my mons tickles me a little in a sentimental kind of way. Granted there are definitely things that fit better in a 3v3 environment I guess I just like a challenge. I'm also debating switching out Thunderbolt for Discharge, aye the power drop is something to think about but the 30% chance to paralyse could be exactly what I need to stop those pesky Talonflames (I may need some speed investment. Or running an Agility set.)

    Weakness policy -definitely- looks like the better way to go, I can't believe I didn't think about that, so thank you for bringing it to my attention! I imagine those boosts would be godly in the right circumstances.

    As for the ever present Talonflame problem I am debating bringing in a bulkier water type in place of Gastro - possibly a Quagssire, or I'll just be forced to run a Rotom-W like so many others. That said I am sure a Tyranitar set somewhere throws a cog in the works. I guess I'll have to do some thinking and figure out what'll fit best with the rest.
  22. Mashymre

    Mashymre

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    I really like Quagsire in this format, however, you should be aware that even with maximum investment, a full health quagsire still has a considerable chance of being 2hko'd:

    252+ Atk Choice Band (custom) Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 187-222 (47.58 - 56.48%) -- 32.03% chance to 2HKO

    Agility amp might actually be pretty interesting. definitely unexpected. i think i would go tbolt over discharge on an agility set since your sweeping and want the extra power, but id probably actually run discharge on any other set since status is so good.
  23. TheJJT

    TheJJT

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    Another good point. I am thinking perhaps I bring in a Tyrantrum with Stone Edge just to take the hit and KO Talonflame. Could be combined nicely with Volt Switch on MAmphy. Though having ANOTHER dragon does leave me very open to Ice eating my face.
  24. Guilan

    Guilan

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    I pretty much agree with everything you said except for Mega Ampharos.
    If M-Ampharos carries Agility, she can attempt a sweep rather than being useful only with dual screen support.

    Of course, an unexpected moveset.
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2013
  25. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

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    The only thing is Mega Ampharos is even slower than regular Ampharos...who was slow as dirt to begin with...Without a +4, most offensive threats are going to get the jump on you anyway

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