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BW OU 5 Minute Excadrill Sand Team- Made by Super Mario Bro and yee

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by yee, Sep 22, 2011.

  1. yee

    yee
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    Introduction/Team Building Process-


    If you know me well, you know there is nothing I hate to see more than a standard sand team. I long for the banning of Excadrill so it can leave us alone and make that Rotom-W Volt Switching around that much less annoying. That SR Tyranitar usually does nothing but set up SR, troll my spinner, and rub sand damage into my Blissey while it takes that Volt Switch to the Excadrill, who then gets his free spin or set up.

    What im posting here was your standard Excadrill sand team made in 5 minutes, except no Gliscor, Rotom-W, Scizor, Celebi, or Tyranitar. The team traces its roots to an old non weather stall team I was running which featured a changing 6th moveslot. It was originally a Haze Murkrow, which actually tied up a lot of the team's loose ends, mainly trolling Baton Pass. Later I tried Sub/Roost/Dragon Tail/Haze Dragonite to tie up that very same loose end.

    This is where my bud Super Mario Bro came in. He recommended I use Fire Blast over Haze, because when I wasn't facing Baton Pass, that set would be very good. He was right, it was easily the most handy set on the team, spreading both kinds of Spikes around very effectively, and killing Forry/Skarm/Natt etc. coming in thinking I was a parashuffler that couldn't touch them.

    Now, Super Mario Bro isn't into stall very much. However, he liked the Dragonite set so much he build a 2 minute team around it for me. He told me it would be incredible with paralysis support and gave me the initial team-

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    A whole core of paralysis, the Dragonite, and between Tyranitar/Excadrill free spins all day. The other 3 minutes of team building were three changes. 1) Tyranitar is gay in BW. I chose Hippowdon because its a badass and can actually be useful outside of Stealth Rock/Sandstorm, if it chooses to use both. Needless to say it's less expected than Tyranitar these days. 2) With Dragonite being the boss, I want some Spikes to compliment Dragon Tail. Roserade over Celebi to fill the same defensive utility needs for the team. 3) Spin blocking in BW can really be a wasted effort, and this team was lacking a sturdy counter to physical threats like Terrakion, Mamoswine, and Gyarados that I could not rely on Hippowdon to wall. Slowbro was the replacement, and another T-Wave user. Here is the final result-

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I have never felt more comfortable using a team in my entire career in pokemon. I can make focused plays with it all the way through the 150+ turn games it brings. Because of this it has gotten my rating up to voting reqs on 4 occasions when I wanted it to. Here are your details-




    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Sand Stream
    Nature- Relaxed
    EVs- 252 HP, 72 def, 184 spD
    IVs- 31/31/31/31/31/30
    -Stealth Rock
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Fang
    -Slack Off

    This guy grabs the frontlines in battle, and shruggs off more hits than anything else I have used in BW. He manhandles Tyranitar obviously, shrugging off Ice Beam without even being 2HKOed. What may suprise you is how well he takes on bulky Politoed and Ninetails-

    Uninvested Politoed Scald- 40-47.1%
    Uninvested Ninetails Fire Blast- 27.1% - 32.1%

    Before I go on, Hippo isn't my first switch in to any type of Politoed. Now, as you can see, Hippo is a boss at weather wars, especially when it's recovering off hits like that with Slack Off. One particular thing I like to do with Hippowdon is mess up Tentacruel on rain stall teams, not being 2HKOed by it, cutting off its recovery, and assuming I double switched in I will have slashed a good chunk off of their spinner. The same magic happens against Toxicroak.

    Onto the moves, Stealth Rock is especially good now that I can see whether it's an Excadrill or a Forry spinning, and because I can set it up in front of almost anything. EQ is it's main STAB and is much more impressive than the attacks you see from modern Tyranitar. Roar has really dropped in usefulness this gen IMO, which gave me more incentive to run Ice Fang. If you're really clever, you'll notice that I run IVs for Hidden Power Ice and a Relaxed Nature, which I did at one point so I could counter standard Gliscor. However, Ice Fang lands a much better hit on targets like incoming Virizion, Latios, Dragonite etc. and comes with that stupid freeze chance. The Relaxed Nature and IV stayed in tribute to my in-game Hippo and to outslow any Politoed. Slack Off is key to it's amazing longevity.

    The EVs are absolutely ideal. With 72 defense hitting a jump point, I am guranteed to survive a +2 Adamant LO EQ from Excadrill, and thanks to Slowbro/Excadrill I will almost always be at full health when this happens. The special defense lets it push through special attacks as demonstrated through the Politoed and Ninetails calcs, and Slack Off against Specs Latios because Timid Draco Meteor has almost no chance to OHKO.

    Because Hippowdon gets involved so much, I often think of him as the leader of the team.



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Multi-Scale
    Nature- Calm
    EVs- 252 HP/80 spA/176 spD
    -Substitute
    -Roost
    -Dragon Tail
    -Fire Blast

    This Dragonite is really strong. Once everything is paralyzed, the opponent oftentimes can't even touch me. Throughout the entire game Dragonite can act as a quick check to almost anything I need to GTFO with Dragon Tail and Multi-Scale, Draco Meteors really have nothing on me. In fact, if sand isn't up, standard Specs Latios has only a tiny chance of 2HKOing me as I roost up. Without Multi-Scale Dragonite can still do incredible things. It can take an SR switch in and a +2 LO Sludge Bomb from Modest Venusaur almost guranteed, and its subs survive a Volt Switch from standard stupid Rotom-W.

    Substitute mixed with paralysis is like paraflinching. You're forced to try and deal with it directly while paralysis makes it even harder. Roost is mostly used when behind a sub, and to wait for opponent to take a full paralysis. Dragon Tail and Fire Blast from behind the sub torture paralyzed teams with hazards on their side. Fire Blast is really cool right now with everyone expecting a standard parashuffler as I use Substitute. With 80 spA EVs, I can 2HKO any Skarmory, and because most of them are max defense are nowadays I put massive damage on them. Forretress, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth and friends all fall for this trick too.

    Again, thanks to Super Mario bro for this incredibly effective set.



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Natural Cure
    Nature- Calm
    EVs- 252 HP/120 def/136 spD
    IVs- 31/30/31/30/31/30
    -Spikes
    -Aromatherapy
    -Giga Drain
    -Hidden Power [Fire]

    If you have stalked my battles this gen you may have noticed I am a huge fan of Roserade. Usually I run it in the rain with Weather Ball, where to be quite honest it performs even better than it does here, but still Rose is a boss. Every move here is a necessity, I haven't dismissed Sleep Powder just because it only hits on the 4th attempt. Spikes increase each members effectiveness. Aromatherapy is vital for this team, not only because most of my members are really hindered by status, but also because I am very agressive in spreading it. For example, in a Jirachi vs. Rotom-w match-up (which happens every time you lead against standard sand), I will usually Body Slam instead of switching to Rose. Giga Drain is basic STAB and gives me psuedo-leftovers recovery, in testing I find it significantly more useful than Leaf Storm, especially against bulky waters. Lastly, HP Fire is to minimize Ferrothorn switch ins, and nail any Scizor to stop the fucking U-Turn chains from shoving the move up my ass.

    The set looks weird at first glance but Roserade is so great I have found it lasting long enough without Rest, and doing massive damage without Sleep Powder. The old 4th gen EVs are still my favorite to use, I couldn't stand to use max HP/max spD and be so Pursuit weak. This spread takes both Bullet Punches and Draco Meteors.

    Overall Roserade fits the team perfectly and gives just the right support.



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Regenerator
    Nature- Bold
    EVs- 252 HP/252 def/4 spD
    -Scald
    -Psychic
    -Thunder Wave
    -Slack Off

    Slowbro got an amazing gift this gen in its new ability, Regenerator. It's immense bulk massively helps out the team in dealing with threats like Mamoswine, Cloyster, and Terrakion that the rest of my team would hate to face off against. Not only does it take on most of the threats that the rest of the team struggles with, it also overlaps duty with Hippowdon to the point that I can keep both in tip top condition. Slowbro does this while catching the right things on the switch with Thunder Wave, like Latios and Rotom-W, that would otherwise be tricky to catch with Jirachi.

    I have used Surf to avoid the risk of burning anything because obviously the goal is paralysis. I used to run Fire Blast just because I hate Ferrothorn, but it makes playing against Conk much harder and v. Gyarados I have a horrible match-up, not to say I won't occasionally run Fire Blast for you people expecting me not to.

    Max defense is an obvious choice so I can survive 2 boosted EQs from standard Gliscor easily and maximize physical walling potential. I also decided to put Scald on Slowbro so I could burn Skarmory and Ferrothorn, Surf doesn't OHKO Excadrill/Terrakion/anything significant so the power loss is no big deal. Just gotta be more careful about burning a Rotom-W/Hydreigon etc. on the switch. Thanks Heist for recommending it!



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Serene Grace
    Nature- Careful
    EVs- 252 HP, 216 spD, 40 spe
    -Body Slam
    -Iron Head
    -Wish
    -U-Turn

    Jirachi is my main special wall and sturdiest steel. Between Slowbro and Jirachi, I can spread all the paralysis I need. Just like Slowbro does on the physical side, Jirachi checks special threats that I could have a lot of trouble against otherwise, mainly Tornadus, Reuniclus, and predicted Draco Meteors. Jirachi is also pressed with the responsibility of taking an Outrage sometimes, only CB Outrages put too much stress on Hippowdon and Slowbro and I have Excadrill in the wings so its not too big of a weakness.

    Because Tornadus, Reuniclus, and special dragons are the only special threats I would really crumble too should I lose Jirachi I can safely drop Protect for U-turn. Wish+Protect makes an awesome wall, but I don't need the recovery enough to miss out on scouting while trolling Magnezone. I try to not to dick around with Iron Head too much, and only abuse Serene Grace with Body Slam, because other members of the team can make a paralyzed pokemon suffer. I have actually lost consecutive face-offs with Reuniclus due to lack of flinching which was depressing, but thanks to Dragonite not all hope is lost and I can potentially PP stall it.

    As for speed creep, I just settled for the jump point in spD and wanted to outrun the Jolly Tar benchmark.



    [​IMG] @ [​IMG]
    Ability- Sand Rush
    Nature- Adamant
    EVs- 252 atk, 52 def, 204 spe
    -Rapid Spin
    -Earthquake
    -Rock Slide
    -X-Scissor

    If you hadn't noticed, Excadrill is like a giant Swiss Army Knife (above 2 feet tall in fact). It can revenge pretty much anything, it can spin at any time, and it can directly hit the opponent hard when you want it to. Leftovers Excadrill puts on the pain while having an unfair amount of durability. Immunity to Thunder Wave, Toxic, and sand damage is huge. The 52 defense EVs are quite nifty, taking Gliscor's EQ and bulkygyara's Waterfall like a boss. It's decent special defense lets it easily survive anything electrics are throwing out besides Focus Blasts and Aura Spheres, from there I can spin for free while I put the fear of death into them or just kill them.

    The ability to pull spins out of almost any situation is incredible considering the stall battles I go through and Dragonite's ability in particular. I dropped Swords Dance for X-Scissor because once Rotom-W with will-o-wisp became more and more common so did Celebi because of its Natural Cure ability, HP Fire for Scizor etc. However, it's not just handy for Celebi, it is also extremely useful for Hydreigon/Latios on those Dragon spam teams which tend to be at a huge risk of being 6-0ed by Excadrill. Those teams were a part of the spread building process. 52 defense EVs is cool on Exca because it helps against Scizor and Skarmory noticeably, but taking out of attack meant I missed the KO on 62% Mamoswine, which has happened multiple times. It wasn't the only one to troll me with 216 attack. Taking them out of speed lets me outrun Scarf base 110s and below while only missing out on Scarfmie and ScarfGenies, which I am not concerned with at all.

    This little bastard is cheap and I hate its place in the metagame. Even though it made this team so many times easier to build and use to success I will vote as many times as I can to put an Uber next to its name.




    Example Replay-

    http://pokemon.aesoft.org/replay-Dead-Kennedy-vs-FuckPunch--2011-06-30

    One of the many long stall battles I've been through. In this example, I end up with 3 pokes vs. one Zapdos, and this 158 turn battle ends up incredibly close.

    I would post more, but my log folder confuses me so I don't know where the battles I want to post ended up.




    Threat List

    [​IMG]- The threat is the Baton Pass version. It'll just 6-0 me unless I get a bunch of crits on the BP Chain. Thing can do over 150% to Jirachi.




    Closing Statements-

    I love this team more than any other I have ever played with, I love it so much I almost made a full threat list for it. Also, ban Excadrill.
  2. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Lovely team, yee. Really can't find any glaring fault to this team; it's really well-made. Dragonite just patches up so many weak spots.

    I was going to suggest Dragon Dance > Substitute on Dragonite to be able to break Vaporeon's Substitutes and force it out. However, that requires Dragonite to have at least 350 Atk to reliably break Vaporeon's Substitute, not to mention that Acid Armor boost would accumulate much faster.

    The most reliable way of thwarting BP chains would simply to add Haze > Substitute on Dragonite.

    However, I understand that Substitute is an integral move to Dragonite's para-shuffling strategy. You may want to give Excadrill Swords Dance over X-Scissor so that it can threaten to set up alongside the BP chains and start killing stuff before they can.
  3. yee

    yee
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    Thanks Pocket! Ill have to see how the suspect round wraps up, because Excadrill, possibly Baton Pass, and maybe even Dragonite will be suspects. Dragonite usually needs all 4 of his moves against normal teams, so it can't change his set. Swords Dance could be cool on Exca though, as long as there's no BP Gliscor. Roar on Hippowdon can also work if I predict Espeon switches perfectly, but i've been to lazy to even try changing things for BP because every fix I've thought of wouldn't work often enough. BP is just cruel.
  4. Boondocker

    Boondocker

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    Im thinkin hp ice on roserade to hit opposing rain roserades and dragons with...hp fire is only good for scizor and skarm/forteress but you have exadrill to spin so they arent as important. Speaking of spinning, rocky helmet ferothorn is a pretty good spin blocker, it takes at least 25% off the spinner and can set the hazzards right back up. Brelooms a dick to you so i would say use gliscor>dragonite, but im sure you like dragonite alot. Great team and the suggestions were:

    Ferothorn>roerade
    Gliscor>Dragonite
  5. dragonboy52

    dragonboy52
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    Newbie rate!

    Nice team, I can see how much you hate excadrill. Speaking of excadrill, it can tear apart your team quite easily with Stralth Rocks support. I want to suggest Skarmory, but then you'll be fire weak. Instead you can run a Impish Gliscor over your Dragonite.
    You don't have a spin blocker, so you should try running Jellicent over Slowbro.
    I'll EDIT this post with the sets!


    Hope I helped!

    Jellicent

    ~ Scald / Surf
    ~ Will-O-Wisp
    ~ Recover
    ~ Taunt
    248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe
  6. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    The Slowbro part was interesting. As an avid Slowbro user myself, my experience with him sounds quite similar to yours. Conkeldurr seems like a significant threat to this team, though I'm not sure how well Roserade handles him. I'd suggest a Relaxed nature and 0 Speed IVs on Slowbro, but considering all the paralysis, it might not matter.

    Another little trick I've found to be extremely effective is a Rocky Helmet on Slowbro. The utility is amazing for finishing off low HP threats and stalling for residual damage with Slack Off. Between Slack Off and Regen, and possible passed Wishes, Slowbro should have no trouble staying healthy, even in Sand.
  7. Furai

    Furai wellfare
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    That is one cool team yee.

    One thing I noticed is that on Slowbro, you're running Bold. Bold Slowbro loses against Conkelldurr as it outspeeds it, therefore making Payback hit double. So run Relaxed nature with 0 Speed IVs, and that should solve this.


    I have a feeling that Toxic Spikes on Roserade would help this team more, with the ShuffleNite and SS your Opponent's Pokemon will die quickly. Not sure about it though, test it around!


    Good Luck bro, very cool team!

    EDIT: @dragonboy:
    I've been thinking of Excadrill too, but look at these calcs:
    810 Atk vs 350 Def & 394 HP (80 Base Power): 266 - 314 (67.51% - 79.70%) (Balloon Excadrill's +2 X-Scissor against Slowbro)
    810 Atk vs 319 Def & 420 HP (100 Base Power): 273 - 322 (65.00% - 76.67%) (Balloon Excadrill's +2 Earthquake against Hippowdon)
    He has two very solid checks against Excadrill, all he has to do is to break the Balloon.

    I'd run some more Defense EVs on Hippowdon to take the EQ better, and probably Balloon Excadrill too to check opposing Excadrill better.
  8. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

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    Wow excellent team, that Dnite set is simply the tits. The only weakness that stands out to me is LO Starmie in the rain. Its boosted Hydro Pump and boltbeam coverage are bad news bears for this team when your main check, Roserade, is relying on Giga Drain for recovery and is susceptible to being worn down after a couple of switchins. You could resort to playing around it with LO stall, but then 3 attacks + Recover screws you over and that is shaky strategy in general against good players. So with that in mind, you ought to test Rest for dependable full recovery because Rose is a glue poke for this team and you need it to...stick around :/ Probably over Armotherapy, which is interesting but not all that necessary IMO.

    Hydreigon also looks tough to deal with defensively, but if you can land a para on it with Bro you should be ok, just watch out for giving it free switchins with Rose. Protect on Rachi might help with that weakness, though you can't afford to drop U-turn for zone. Also maybe consider Chople Tar over Hippo. Mostly food for thought, I like hippo anyway.

    When I think about, Chople Tar can actually be a really effective way to disrupt bp chains and handle espeon late game. It also patches up the minor weakness to subDisable Gengar that your current rachi set would lose to. You can even run it with Taunt to officially designate bp as your bitch. Here's the set:

    Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
    Brave l Sandstream
    EVs: 252 HP / 80 Atk / 176 Spd
    - Stealth Rock
    - Crunch
    - Taunt
    - Rock Slide / Superpower

    The EVs vary (and nature), I just remember those being somewhat standard. He sets up SR because I intended him over Hippo, Crunch for reliable STAB, Taunt because it manhandles bp, and the fourth move is up to preference; Rock Slide is good steady damage on a lot of stuff, breaks Gengar's sub, and lets Tar take on Sub Volcarona, but I also like Superpower on this team to hit Heatran, Hydreigon, and opposing TTar. Fire Blast can obviously work too, but I didn't feel the need for that since you have spinner and Dnite to lure Skarm. If want to use Superpower, you can always give Rachi Fire Punch over U-turn, it breaks Gengar's sub, deals with Zone and CM Rachi, and also makes a handy check for Scizor. Alright, I'm out finally.

    So yeah, it's really cool to see how much you've improved since that blue lagoon rmt way back. Gl man
  9. dragonboy52

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    Oh, but with 3 layers of spikes and Rocks, They both have a chance to get OHKO'd. Most teams carry Spin blockers.
    And he doesn't have a spin blocker.

    EDIT: Balloon is a must
  10. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    Offensive rain tears this team to bits, jirachi is 2hko'd by rain boosted hydro pumps from most pokemon, dragonite can switch into water moves but is subsequently outsped and ohko'd by ice beams, roserade can't handle repeated water / ice attacks due to no reliable recovery and only slightly above average special bulk. slowbro can't handle special moves.

    you would be reduced to spreading paralysis and hoping that you can catch their sweepers out with it so dragonite can outstall them, which leaves LO starmie the biggest threat against your team with natural cure. some things you could try is a maximum sp.def spread on roserade, and putting rest on it; although rest by itself may be enough.
  11. dragonboy52

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    One more reason to use Jellicent
  12. -Tsunami-

    -Tsunami- ¬°YA HA!
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    Hey there.

    First off, there are some things that can threaten your greatly : Powerful water type moves will basically destroy you, especially if they get rain up. Starmie especially is a major threat, being able to OHKO / 2HKO all of your pokemon. In order to solve the Starmie weakness while retaining the ability to take water hits well, I recommend that you replace Roserade with a Ferrothorn.

    Specially Defensive Ferrothorn
    Show Hide
    Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
    Trait: Iron Barbs
    Nature-Careful
    EVs- 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SDef
    -Protect
    -Power Whip
    -Leech Seed
    -Spikes


    Ferrothorn can retain Roserade's ability to stop various threats such as Rotom-W, but can utilize a combination of Leech Seed + Protect to keep it more healthy than Roserade would. Ferrothorn is also much easier to pass Wishes to due to it's high physical bulk and various resistances, and has the ability to fill Roserade's role of setting up Spikes.

    Also, as a minor note, run a Relaxed nature on Slowbro. This allows Slowbro to be slower than Brave Conkeldurr, who can otherwise do major damage with Payback while you fail to OHKO with Psychic.

    Overall, solid team. Hope I helped, and good luck!
  13. Saijo

    Saijo

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    good team, i like it =D
  14. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    if you underspeed conkeldurr then it just hits you twice with unboosted payback, as opposed to once with boosted payback, same thing really.
  15. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

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    Not to mention durr could easily come in and absorb a careless body slam from rachi, so I feel like slowbro's speed is irrelevant in that matchup
  16. Howard

    Howard

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    For a team predicated on stall and hazing, I think it's weird that you rely on Roserade to get spikes up as opposed to a more bulky spikes user like Ferrothorn or Skarmory. I strongly suggest you switch your current Roserade to Ferrothorn. At the moment, Roserade is working as your cleric, which is a huge thing to lose, but you could try and fit Heal Bell on Dragonite somewhere, possibly over substitute, if that becomes an issue. Ferrothorn also has the added bonus of providing Thunder Wave support, if you so choose to run a set with that on it. You seem like you have a pretty good thing going here, so I'm not going to expand on this anymore. GLB.
  17. Super Mario Bro

    Super Mario Bro All we ever look for

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    The problem with Ferrothorn over Roserade is that he would lose a Toxic spikes absorber, wouldn't be able to heal his teammates with Aromatherapy (which would make this team obnoxiously weak to burn), and would compound his weakness to HP Fire Rotom-W (Ros isn't 2HKO'd by non-specs versions).
  18. badabing

    badabing hevy hangs da hood,,

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    How is the team weak to burn? Rotom-W, Jellicent, and Scald users are all taken on by Roserade and Heatran with Lava Plume/Will-o is usually coming from a specially defensive set so Slowbro can handle that too...

    edit: ah i misunderstood. thought you meant that he needed rose as a cleric with aromatherapy because other shit would get burned.
  19. Stunt

    Stunt

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    Suggesting Flamethrower over Fire Blast on Dragonite.
    More PP (24) as opposed to (8)
    as well as more accuracy.
    It must be coincidental how we both love Dragon Tail Flamethrower Dragonite.
  20. yee

    yee
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    Thanks Boondocker. Rose and Drag are both way too important for the team to replace so ill be keeping them.

    Thanks for the rate! The reason I use Slowbro instead of Jellicent, even if it spin blocks, is because it gives me the physical backbone I need. Gyarados, Mamoswine, Conkeldurr etc. would run through the team. Again no Gliscor over Dragonite because that set was the entire purpose of the team, and a wall to countless paralyzed pokemon.

    I've been to lazy to look over the speed for Slowbro vs. Conk match-up, so thanks for pointing it out. Also, Rocky Helmet sounds pretty funny, thanks.

    I've been having Conk outspeed me for some odd reason even though im running Bold lol. Anyway, I 2HKO with Psychic and it doesn't matter if im faster, I take double but I also don't get hit twice. Being faster also lets you kill it after weakening it. Toxic Spikes aren't used because I rely on paralysis a lot, and Hippo's EVs and leftovers on Drill are too important for longevity in stall battles. Thanks for the rate!

    LO Starmie is a tricky one but in rain they usually run Rapid Spin and Recover, meaning no Ice Beam and Rose has little problems dealing with it. Aromatherapy is vital the way I spread paralysis myself.

    Hippo is too much of a boss to give up, if someone runs BP, I'll take that loss. Dragonite deals with Sub Disable gar just fine, and Tyranitar can't be a one man army against every chain. Thanks!

    Thankfully, the rain abusing Starmie usually run Hydro/Thunder/Rapid Spin/Recover so either Roserade or Nite can take it on fine. A timely double switch with Rose into Starmie or having Excadrill on the field against something slower also puts stress on those teams. I will consider running more spD on rose though, thanks man!

    Thanks :) Against Starmie again when Jirachi can't wall it I use the rain offense team's weaknesses to Excadrill or double switching to make the job easier, which isn't even necessary if it only has Hydro Pump and Thunder. Roserade is just way too important to the team to give up. I prefer a faster match-up Slowbro vs. Conk so I either outspeed and 2HKO or revenge one without being hit by a Payback first.

    Thank you Saijo!

    Again, I can't change anything on Rose or Nite. Ferrothorn is sturdier, but it doesnt give the same support. Thanks for the rate!

    Yeah, that has been a conflict of mine. I've actually had plenty of cases where the massive PP of Flamethrower would be useful, but I stuck to Fire Blast for the OHKO on bulky Scizor and Careful Skarm so that can't troll me. Thanks Stunt! I'll be testing it for sure, next time I use this team, or if Drill gets banned the Dragonite somewhere else.
  21. gookie

    gookie Adominnustrata
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    well, if you say that you don't have trouble with rain teams then i'll take your word for it.

    however, if you do find some problems i have been trying to think of something that would help out without changing too many members / flow of the team, and the best thing i could think up of is

    heal bell blissey with thunder wave over jirachi, this lets you put rest safely on roserade, or if you choose you can replace that with ferro.

    the loss of jirachi shouldn't be too bad as you can still check most reuniclus with dragonite, but it leaves it as a last pokemon problem; so alternatively, you could run a combination of specially defensive togekiss with bodyslam (or thunderwave) / air slash / heal bell and roost + ferrothorn this should still allow you to flinch reuniclus into oblivion should the need arise and maintains two steels / hazards / aromatherapy.
  22. yee

    yee
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    Hippo/nite/Natt/Togekiss/ProBro/Drill actually sounds pretty good, thanks! Togekiss will definitely not be flinching Rank to death with its 95% Air Slash accuracy and im not sure how well it will work as a cleric right now, ill see how well that lineup works if the Exca meta continues for some reason.

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