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5th Gen Pokemon Don't Obey Me

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by ZMT, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. ZMT

    ZMT

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20
    5th Gen Pokemon Don't Obey Me
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Note: I'm open to all advice and criticism, I want to get better at this game and understand how it works. Any help is always appreciated.

    Team backstory: Okay so, if anyone was wondering, I got the title for this team because I haven't played this game competitively since Gen 4, before HG/SS. Every time I try to use the new Pokemon of the generation, I fail. For some reason my brain just can't grasp it, every time I finish playing I just get this weird urge to tune onto the weather channel. I had a vacation planned but it was too rainy with a sleight chance of hurricane winds at 109 mph and my flight got cancelled, oh well. I then decided to make a team that would do well against weather, and I got this out of it, the team got me a decent record and high 1700s in PS, which is good for someone who didn't play in so long I guess. Well, to the team =]

    [​IMG]

    Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 248 Spd, 252 SpA, 8 Def
    Nature: Timid
    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Trick
    - Hidden Power Ice

    I love Rotom-W, I find it to be one of the best leads right now in OU. It fits so well in this team as its only weakness is resisted by 4 of my 5 other Pokemon. Against Politoed leads, you can Volt Switch and get a great outcome no matter what happens barring a Ground or Volt Absorb switch in. Thanks to team viewer, you can stay in and Hydro Pump or HP Ice if you see a lot of bad switch-in possibilities. I almost never ever Trick on the first turn because this team has so few answers to common threats like CM Lati and even Blissey can get annoying if Breloom faints, plus Reuniclus can get bad too. I like having 8 defense EVs to force Genesects Download to increase its special attack. (I sacrificed some speed to do this because I really dont need 252 and a scarfon this. Anything that would outspeed me is going to anyway.) Back to the Genesect matchup...Thunderbolt and Ice Beam after a boost is easily taken and I can Volt Switch out, doing what its supposed to do best. In comes Heatran or another Pokemon for a nice start to the game. Against Ninetales leads Volt Switch is the better option over Hydro Pump due to Sunlight, and it does a decent amount of damage and Heatran or Mence come right in. Tyranitars are kinda annoying, if they setup SR, volting to Breloom almost guarentees that something is snoozing. In the late game, Rotom is still very capable of sweeping or revenge killing. It is an all around good Pokemon that I really can't play without anymore.

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    Heatran @ Shed Shell
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 240 Spd, 252 SpA, 16 HP
    Nature: Timid
    - Fire Blast
    - Hidden Power Ice
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earth Power

    This thing, omg this thing <3. Well Ill tell you what, I hate dugtrio, I really do. I know that I can use Air Balloon, but Im really bad at this game and it always goes away to mispredicting or some other factor. In other words in my opinion, its not as consistent as this. Magnezone needs a scarf to outspeed it, thats not the big threat, its those moles, three little moles. But yeah in all seriousness, Genesect + Dugtrio is all the rage these days and when I switch in Heatran into Genesect and get hit by U-turn, its basically dead without Shed Shell as Air Balloon pops. In my experience its either going to set up rocks if it still has its sash or EQ if it doesnt. But I really dont like 50/50s and Im switching out most of the time. I can go to Rotom, Celebi, Breloom, or Mence (If I previously had Rocks up to break a possible sash), to take Earthquake I have options. This walking Volcano sets up Stealth Rock for me, it switches into dragons only to HP ice them, and is really good against sun teams, which I really hate facing, a lot. Also this thing is so good vs Venusaur if its not using Earthquake, I gotta scout some to find out of course.

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    Salamence @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Spd, 252 Atk, 4 SpA
    Nature: Naive
    - Fire Blast
    - Dragon Claw/Brick Break
    - Outrage
    - Earthquake

    Yeah I know its a very standard set. But its a set you don't see much nowadays. Only 2.5% of Salamence ran Expert Belt last month. Since my team doesn't have a Magnezone or Dugtrio to help my Dragons sweep, I guess ill do the next best thing. Let the dragons eliminate their counters and then sweep =]. Basic lure set here, I'm sort of stuck between Dragon Claw and Brick Break. In my opinion the worst thing about me related to Pokemon is I'm terrible at picking the proper moveset to aid my team as a whole. It just seems like Fire Blast is enough, and Outrage does the rest, but I'm wrong, because in practice it barely works. I like Dragon Claw if I want to "scout" with it, but s I imple prediction can reward you with another move slot in the form of Brick Break for ultimate coverage. Naive nature is obvious here and the spread is completely standard. I usually dont like being in positions of a speed tie, as it can mean I have a 50% chance to win this game, and I don't like playing that way. I feel the best way to play is to always have a better chance to win then your opponent throughout the game. If you go with a 50/50 chance, you are admitting to yourself "this may be my best or only chance of winning, I'm gonna go for it". (An example was Garchomp vs Garchomp both using outrage in gen 4) Its not for me. However in this case I like having max speed since there are a lot of situations I dont mind if I lose it, like vs Volcarona, Ninetales, Hydreigon, or some Jirachis. Even if you get hit first, its often not a big deal and you hit them back for far more damage. Also just gotta say it, sometimes when you lure a steel type only to be fire blasted, they just leave the game, its hilarious and fun.

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    Starmie @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP, 28 SpA, 228 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    - Scald
    - Psyshock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Recover

    Starmie's Gem in the middle of its body is a reflection of how cut...um valuable it is. I need a rapid spinner on the team, its that simple. If I use a Pokemon that is weak to rock a rapid spinner is right by its side. I like Scald as I really aren't spreading any status with this team other then Spore. The fact he recovers means more Scalds will be used, and Pokes will be burned. It helps with Blissey too, as Psyshock does fair damage and combined with the burn, you can beat Blissey with a critical hit. If it uses a status move like Thunder Wave, you can always switch to Breloom forcing its switch. I like to just wait until Im playing really frusterating switching back and forth from Celebi to Starmie wasting its PP. Then when he is obviously going to go for recovery, in comes the Breloom. 228 Speed lets you outspeed Tornadus if its not scarfed, this lets me have more SpA EVs which are very important for beating Blissey if it comes down to it. The bulk here is simply for extra leftovers recovery, and because I REALLY want Starmie around as long as possible as hes almost needed to survive against some Infernapes. Their U-Turn doesnt hurt too much and their other moves do very little after recovering with leftovers.

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    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 Spd, 252 Atk, 4 HP
    Nature: Jolly
    - Bullet Seed
    - Spore
    - Mach Punch
    - Low Sweep

    I honestly don't understand why more people dont use this. They need 2 counters on their team to beat it, and even then their team got opened up for my other Pokemon now because one is having some nice dreams. I was a huge fan of the SubPunch set in gen 4, I tried it in BW2 and it still works however I think priority is far more important now, so I went with this set. For the Pokemon itself, its standard, I dont see a reason not to have it standard either. The only thing about this is its item, is Life Orb the way to go? Or perhaps maybe I should use Choice Band, I'm not entirely sure. The thing I love most about Breloom in relation to this team is its typing. It helps take ground moves towards Heatran, Grass moves towards Rotom or Starmie, and Electric or Dark attacks aimed at Starmie. I feel Jolly is manditory to help outspeed things with Low Sweep as they come in. After SR and a Low Sweep speed drop, you can KO many flying types that would otherwise counter you. Nothing else to say here other then this is the number one Pokemon I got the most rage messages from, so that must mean its pretty good.

    [​IMG]

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 36 Spd, 252 SpA, 220 HP
    Nature: Modest
    - Recover
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Grass Knot
    - Psychic/Thunder Wave

    Completing CeleTran, classic. Its kinda obvious that I would use this in a 4th gen Pokemon team, I mean this duo has been popular since Heatran existed. I have a fairly standard set on this Pokemon, however I am open to change as Celebi's versatility isso high that I'm sure there is a better set I could be running. Recover is manditory unless Giga Drain is better then I think it is. Hidden Power Fire is great vs Ferrothorn which I hate seeing. Psychic is a stab attacking move to go with Grass Knot.Grass Knot overall has a higher base power then Giga Drain in this metagame right now, however I don't know if its worth losing the HP gain from it. I could use U-turn on this to have VoltTurn action going on, or use a status move like Thunder Wave or Toxic,maybe some Leech Seed? Earth Power is also a surprise against Heatran switchins and Fire Types like Ninetales coming in. My spread maximizes on attack power, my Speed EVs gives me enough speed to beat out Adamant Breloom, any nonscarf Tyranitar, and many others that would otherwise be an issue.


    Team threats:

    Reuniclus: If it sets up CM, I pretty much have to trick it or hope my outrages are enough, sure I can put it to sleep but this Pokemon is a tough one.

    CM Lati@s: Another setup Pokemon that can be a huge issue. I don't have any dark moves on my team and the only Dragon moves come from a Pokemon that is slower then both. I need to trick this down as well, Breloom can't even put it to sleep safely.

    Gengar: This Pokemon is immune to the only priority move my team has, I can't switch in Rotom to outspeed safely. Starmie can't switch into a Shadow Ball. Celebi loses to it, Breloom loses, Heatran can beat it if it doesnt have or hit me with 2 focus blasts.

    Thunderus: Volt Absorb is so good to switch into my Rotom with, if I see one on their team I think of just using Hydro Pump off the start. I really cant switch into it safely either with grass Pokemon as its also flying type.

    Jolteon: I can't switch into this, even if I do, they can volt switch out. Shadow Ball is good for Celebi and Volt Switch/Thunder hits the rest of my team. Heatran is bulky enough to take a hit from it but then it gets 2hkod by Rain + Thunder. I dont know what do do for this.

    Thanks for viewing my team, I hope its not too boring to read and you guys can help make it better however possible. =]
  2. DestinyUnknown

    DestinyUnknown in other words...
    is a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2011
    Messages:
    1,448
    Hey,

    This is a cool team and it seems pretty decent, but as you have noticed, there are some flaws that need to be ironed out. The main problem of the team is dealing with fast special sweepers like Latios, Alakazam and Gengar, which can easily wreck most members of your team without taking a hit. Something you could do to fix this would be using Scizor instead of Celebi or Breloom, as using both seems a bit redundant. The option is up to you, on one hand, Celebi is bulkier and makes for a better check to Water-type pokemon, but on the other hand, Breloom is better offensively and has both a priority move and a sleep move. Scizor would provide you with a solid Gengar and Reuniclus check, as well as a general purpose revenge killer, thanks to its powerful Bullet Punch. Here's the set:

    Scizor@Choice Band | Technician
    Adamant Nature | 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
    Bullet Punch / Superpower / U-turn / Pursuit


    Another thing you should consider is using Dragonite instead of Salamence. This could be seem more as a ''what you prefer'' change (and I agree it is), but I believe Dragonite suits this team better, as it provides more utility than Salamence due to his higher bulk that allows Dragonite to take more hits and priority on ExtremeSpeed. In case you decide using Dragonite, I would suggest using a standard Offensive Dragon Dance set, as it has the ability of still breaking through most defensive pokemon like Salamence did, whereas against offensive teams it can set up and sweep. Set:

    Dragonite@Lum Berry | Multiscale
    Adamant Nature | 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Dragon Dance / Outrage / ExtremeSpeed / Fire Punch


    Hope I helped!
  3. ZMT

    ZMT

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20
    Thanks DestinyUnknown, I like the idea of using Scizor and Im sure itll help remedy some problems with Latios, Latias, Gengar etc. For this team I'm unsure which of the two is less important, Breloom or Celebi. Breloom has priority and Spore, but Celebi has natural cure to absorb status, better bulk, and like you said is better vs rain. I sometimes had to stall out Blisseys by switching back and forth between Starmie and Celebi, but if I have another Physical Attacker Im sure it wont be as big a deal. Ill definitely take it into consideration.

    For Dragonite, I like him a lot, the only thing about him is that he doesn't hit as hard from the special side of things, plus he doesn't have moxie which won me a lot of games. I guess Dragon Dance is there for that though.

    Is a DD Fire Punch from Dragonite as strong as Mence's Fire Blast in terms of wall breaking?

    Ill try him out too though, most likely going to add Scizor.
  4. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,391
    If you want a Dragon in terms of wall breaking and the question is Dragonite vs. Salamence, Salamence is quite clearly the better contender here. If I recall correctly, Salamence's Fire Blast OHKOes physically defensive Skarmory after SR (with Life Orb), while Dragonite must have a boost in order to 2HKO the same Skarmory with Fire Punch. However, my suggestion is to use a Choice Scarf set over your current set. I know Choice Scarf sounds redundant alongside your Scarf Rotom-W, but this helps with your weakness to Latios and CM Latias. Here's the set:

    Salamence @ Choice Scarf | Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe | Hasty Nature
    Outrage | Dragon Claw | Earthquake | Fire Blast


    I personally run Hasty on all of my ScarfMences nowadays as it allows it to match up better against Volcarona. Bullet Punch still doesn't OHKO without Stealth Rock and Techniloom still does pitiful damage with Mach Punch. Ice Shard OHKOes regardless of nature. In addition, Hasty doesn't nerf Fire Blast, which allows you to still handle Skarmory switch-ins.

    Other than that, I agree with the Scizor suggestion, but only to help with Alakazam and Gengar. I also recommend using it over Breloom because dropping Celebi makes you weaker to enemy Techniloom. Do note that Scizor most likely will not help against Latias and non-Choiced Latios as they will most likely pack HP Fire to own you.
  5. ZMT

    ZMT

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
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    Thanks LucaroarkZ.

    Yeah I decided to keep in Celebi and take out Breloom for Scizor. This means I lose a status inducer, should Celebi get a status move or leech seed over one of its moved to compensate? The only thing I can really do is spread burn with Scald on Starmie really now.

    HP Fire is almost manditory, as is a grass move for Celebi. If I use Thunder Wave on Celebi, I might not need to run Scarf on Mence if I can hit Latias or Latios. Should I drop recover and give Celebi Giga Drain instead of Grass Knot? Its a tough call.

    Ill look into Scarfed Salamence anyway, I do like having something to revenge kill Latias and Latios without special conditions. The only problem is I have no way to reliably remove steel types that get in his way other then prediction. Without being locked in, they can't keep switching back and forth.
  6. Adamant Zoroark

    Adamant Zoroark formerly LucaroarkZ

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2011
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    Heatran should be able to handle most Steels reliably except for opposing Heatran (but Rotom-W is a good switch-in) and Lucario (who isn't that common anymore but whatever). Celebi could use Giga Drain, which actually hits Gastrodon harder than Grass Knot, but Grass Knot has the benefit of hitting Tyranitar harder.

    Thunder Wave on Celebi could work, especially since Celebi is some of the biggest Latios/Latias bait in the game. It would work to cripple Latias since it will probably want to set up on you, but I wouldn't try paralyzing Latios. I've used Expert Belt Latios to smash Scizor and have run into several players using it, which is why I suggested Scarf Salamence. It still helps you in that it's a bit of a better Volcarona check than Heatran (who isn't that reliable because there are quite a few Volcaronas who run HP Ground), while also being able to reliably revenge kill non-Choice Scarf Latios (protip: Scarf Latios locked into Draco Meteor is the biggest Scizor bait in the game). Fire Blast is really only for Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn switch-ins (and I guess the uncommon Bronzong), but it's most effective if you predict them switching in. It also lets you revenge kill Choice Scarf Genesect. Heatran should be able to hit them hard anyway, while Rotom-W does very well against Skarmory as well (and walls Bronzong!).
  7. ZMT

    ZMT

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
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    Thanks, What set would you recommend with Celebi if I were to use Thunder Wave on it? I was thinking of just removing Psychic and adding Thunder Wave.

    By the way Scizor worked really well, thanks everyone for that.
  8. ZMT

    ZMT

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    20
    @ThatsMyLatias, I put Thunder Wave over Psychic and it helped immensely. I might change the spread a bit to give me some more bulk but otherwise its really good.

    Giga Drain also was tried and it was okay, its better vs some, worse vs others. Conkeldurr wasnt that big a threat seeing how Starmie is so bulky and I can beat it with Celebi without Psychic to begin with.

    Perish Song is good but I really don't have room for it.

    If anyone has any other suggestions, feel free to let me know. The changes have been great, and the team has been really nice, but I want to make it as good as I can.

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