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5th Gen Speed Tiers

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by shrang, Nov 12, 2010.

  1. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Okay, I know I haven't reserved this, so if you are working on it as well, I sincerely apologise. Anyway, I rushed up a quick Speed Tier list (After looking at the 4th gen one and adding possible 5th gen changes onto it). I know this is probably not the right format either, but I'm not going to bother with that at this stage. Here's version of the Speed Tiers, if I've missed anything, please let me know.

    Format is Speed / Pokemon name / Base Speed / Nature / EV investment / Boost

    Note 1: I did not include Dream World Pokemon apart from those that have been released (Venusaur is the only one I'm aware of), so stuff like Swift Swim Golduck or Speed Boost Blaziken I will not include now.
    Note 2: About boosts stacking with weather (eg "+4 Omastar" is not actually "+4" but "+2" then add a "+2" boost, which is not "+4"), I went with the old style, so it's still written as something like +4 when it isn't actually +4.

    Tier 0 (>180 Base Speed):

    Show Hide
    885 / Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +3
    836 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +4
    812 / Gorebyss / 52 / Neutral / 252 / +4
    807 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +3
    750 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +3
    728 / Erufuun / 116 / +ve / 252 / +2
    700 / Jumpluff / 110 / +ve / 252 / +2
    692 / Terakion, Kobaruon / 108 / +ve / 252 / +2
    690 / Ninjask / 160 / +ve / 252 / +1
    662 / Randorosu / 101 / +ve / 252 / +2
    652 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +2
    630 / Terakion, Kobaruon / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    613 / Deoxys-S / 180 / Neutral / 52 / +1
    612 / Lucario / 90 / +ve / 252 / +2
    604 / Doryuuzu / 88 / +ve / 252 / +2
    602 / Randorosu / 101 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    594 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    594 / Groudon / 90 / +ve / 216 / +2
    591 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 252 / +1
    590 / Qwilfish, Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +2
    585 / Meloetta-S / 128 / +ve / 252 / +1
    582 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +ve / 252 / +1
    574 / Darkrai / 125 / +ve / 252 / +1
    568 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur / 80 / +ve / 252 / +2
    558 / Lucario / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    550 / Doryuuzu / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    546 / Cloyster / 75 / +ve / 252 / +2
    541 / Azelf / 115 / +ve / 252 / +1
    538 / Qwilfish, Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    585 / Meloetta-S / 128 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    582 / Shaymin-S / 127 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    525 / Latias, Latios, Gengar, Lugia / 110 / +ve / 252 / +1
    524 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / +ve / 252 / +2
    523 / Darkrai / 125 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    519 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / +ve / +1
    518 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    506 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / 68 / +2
    504 / Deoxys-S / 180 / +ve / 252 / +0


    Tier 1 (130 Base Speed to 180 Base Speed):
    Show Hide

    500 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136 / +2
    500 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +2
    499 / Garchomp / 102 / +ve / 252 / +1
    498 / Cloyster / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    492 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin / 100 / +ve / 252 / +1
    489 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +1
    486 / Sazandora / 98 / +ve / 252 / +1
    483 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +1
    478 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    475 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +1
    460 / Ninjask / 160 / +ve / 252 / +0
    459 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V / 90 / +ve / 252 / +1
    458 / Exeggutor / 55 / +ve / 252 / +2
    445 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    442 / Heracross, Kingdra / 85 / +ve / 252 / +1
    442 / Sazandora / 98 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    439 / Ononokusu / 97 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    438 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / +ve / 252 / +0
    436 / Tangrowth / 50 / +ve / 252 / +2
    433 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    427 / Agirudaa / 145 / +ve / 252 / +0
    426 / Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / +ve / 252 / +1
    418 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    418 / Exeggutor, Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
    417 / Heatran / 77 / +ve / 252 / +1
    406 / Gorebyss / 52 / +ve / 252 / +2
    403 / Heracross, Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    399 / Deoxys, Deoxys-A / 150 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    394 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 252 / +0


    Tier 2 (Base 100 Speed to Base 130 Speed):

    Show Hide

    390 / Meloetta-S / 128 / +ve / 252 / +0
    388 / Shaymin-S / 127 / +ve / 252 / +0
    388 / Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
    383 / Darkrai, Weavile / 125 / +ve / 252 / +0
    376 / Scizor / 65 / +ve / 252 / +1
    375 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +1
    372 / Arceus, Dugtrio / 120 / +ve / 252 / +0
    364 / Tyranitar / 61 / +ve / 252 / +1
    361 / Azelf / 115 / +ve / 252 / +0
    360 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / +ve / 252 / +1
    355 / Meloetta-S / 128 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    353 / Shaymin-S / 127 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    353 / Borutorosu, Torunerosu / 111 / +ve / 252 / +0
    352 / Mewtwo / 130 / +ve / 96 / +0
    352 / Arceus / 120 / +ve / 176 / +0
    350 / Latias, Latios, Lugia, Gengar, Jumpluff, Espeon / 110 / +ve / 252 / +0
    349 / Darkrai, Weavile / 125 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    346 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / +ve / 252 / +0
    339 / Arceus, Dugtrio / 120 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    334 / Latias, Lugia / 110 / +ve / 192 / +ve / +0
    333 / Garchomp / 102 / +ve / 252 / +0
    331 / Randorosu / 101 / +ve / 252 / +0
    331 / Erufuun / 116 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    328 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin, Manaphy, Celebi / 100 / +ve / 252 / +0


    Tier 3 (Base 70 Speed to Base 100 Speed):

    Show Hide

    326 / Genosect / 99 / +ve / 252 / +0
    324 / Sazandora / 98 / +ve / 252 / +0
    322 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +0
    321 / Borutorosu, Torunerosu / 111 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 220 / +0
    319 / Latias, Latios, Lugia / 110 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    317 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +0
    315 / Terakion, Infernape, Kobaruon, Birijion, Kerudio / 108 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    307 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 176 / +0
    307 / Lugia / 110 / Neutral / 204 / +0
    306 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / +ve / 252 / +0
    302 / Doryuuzu / 88 / +ve / 252 / +0
    301 / Randorosu / 101 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    328 / Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Urugamosu, Victini, Shaymin, Manaphy, Celebi / 100 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    297 / Groudon / 90 / +ve / 216 / +0
    297 / Genosect / 99 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    295 / Kingdra, Toxicroak, Heracross / 85 / +ve / 252 / +0
    295 / Sazandora / 98 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    293 / Ononokusu / 97 / +ve / 252 / +0
    290 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / +ve / 192 / +0
    289 / Rayquaza, Kyurem, Hihidaruma / 95 / +ve / 252 / +0
    284 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur, Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / +ve / 252 / +0
    279 / Dialga, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Reshiram, Zekrom, Groudon, Lucario, Meloetta-V, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    278 / Heatran / 77 / +ve / 252 / +0
    276 / Arceus / 120 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    275 / Doryuuzu / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    273 / Cloyster / 75 / +ve / 252 / +0
    269 / Kingdra, Toxicroak, Heracross / 85 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    268 / Erufuun / 116 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    262 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / +ve / 252 / +0


    Tier 4 (<70 Base Speed):

    Show Hide

    259 / Shiftry, Kabutops, Venusaur, Mamoswine, Shandera / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    256 / Lugia / 116 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    253 / Mew / 100 / Neutral / 68 / +0
    251 / Scizor / 65 / +ve / 252 / +1
    250 / Kingdra / 85 / Neutral / 176 / +0
    250 / Groudon / 90 / Neutral / 136 / +0
    249 / Cloyster / 75 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    244 / Giratina-O, Dialga / 90 / Neutral / 112 / +0
    244 / Jirachi, Celebi, Shaymin, Mew, Manaphy, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 32 / +0
    243 / Tyranitar / 61 / +ve / 252 / +0
    240 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / +ve / 252 / +0
    239 / Ludicolo, Victreebel, Metagross, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    236 / Jirachi, Celebi, Mew, Shaymin, Manaphy, Victini / 100 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    229 / Scizor / 65 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    226 / Uxie / 95 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    224 / Ho-oh, Dialga, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 32 / +0
    222 / Kyogre / 90 / Neutral / 24 / +0
    221 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    219 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    218 / Tangrowth / 50 / +ve / 252 / +0
    216 / Dialga, Kyogre, Ho-oh, Groudon, Giratina, Giratina-O / 90 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    206 / Cresselia / 85 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    196 / Mamoswine, Venusaur / 80 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    196 / Shedinja / 40 / +ve / 252 / +0
    194 / Groudon, Kyogre / 90 / -ve / 0 / +0
    190 / Heatran / 77 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    184 / Jirachi, Mew, Palkia / 100 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    179 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +0
    176 / Ludicolo, Metagross, Skarmory, Kirikizan / 70 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    175 / Rayquaza, Uxie / 95 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    166 / Dialga, Giratina-O, Groudon, Ho-oh, Kyogre, Lucario / 90 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    166 / Scizor / 65 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    158 / Tyranitar / 61 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    157 / Cresselia, Heracross / 85 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    156 / Magnezone, Abomasnow / 60 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    146 / Blissey / 55 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    143 / Heatran / 77 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    142 / Tyranitar / 61 / -ve / 0 / +0
    136 / Chansey, Registeel, Tangrowth / 50 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    130 / Metagross / 70 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    126 / Roobushin / 45 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    121 / Scizor / 65 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    116 / Forretress / 40 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    114 / Gastrodon / 39 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    111 / Tyranitar / 61 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    106 / Quagsire / 35 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    102 / Wobbuffet / 33 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    96 / Parasect, Rankurusu, Desukaan / 30 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    86 / Gigaiasu / 25 / Neutral / 0 / +0
    85 / Forretress / 40 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    63 / Bronzong / 33 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    55 / Rankurusu / 30 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
    37 / Nattorei / 20 / -ve / 0, 0 IVs / +0
  2. tangramman

    tangramman

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    Coloured some necessary changes. I only glanced at it however. Thank you very much for this though.
  3. eric the espeon

    eric the espeon maybe I just misunderstood
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    It'd really help to talk to a mod before putting up something like thing, any one of us could've told you the correct forum (which I've moved it to with a redirect) and the format to use. But, you've made a good start and I'm sure you'll be able to fix the format to that requested in this sticky without too much trouble. Added it as claimed by you.
  4. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Okay, fixed some mistakes and fixed the format.
  5. NatGeo

    NatGeo sun's coming up
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    Zapdos needs to placed here:

  6. Seven Deadly Sins

    Seven Deadly Sins ~hallelujah~
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    Moderator

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    Max Speed Erufuun is basically irrelevant, as investing in its Speed when it's not going to be running any non-priority moves is questionable at best. At best, list it with a neutral nature, because the only non-priority thing it's doing is U-turn, and it's not investing in its Speed in order to do it.
  7. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    @ NatGeo: I'm not sure if Zapdos is viable in Ubers just yet (Especially +1 Zapdos). I've played with Zapdos in 4th gen and he was mediocre at best. When he gets released with Lightningrod, we'll see what happens. Need more input on this.

    @ SDS: Yeah, I guess so. The only thing I was thinking about was outspeeding Borutorusu and Taunting/Encoring it before it got out-prioritied, or maybe tying with other Erufuun. I'll list him with a neutral nature now, but may need more input about this.
  8. Maketsu

    Maketsu

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    Hi, some of speeds are twice. I found these: 692, 585, 582, 442, 438 and 328.

    Also i found these mistakes:
    320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 220 / +0
    320 / Mew, Manaphy, Celebi, Shaymin, Jirachi, Victini / 100 / +ve / 176 / +0

    196 / Shedinja / 40 / +ve / 252 / +0
    196 / Shedinja / 40 / Neutral / 252 / +0

    Nice work, thanks.
  9. Jamesb8

    Jamesb8

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    just checking you know because i think two +2 boosts actually boosts as much as a +6 Boost right? Did you account for that in the weather boosters?
  10. Destiny Warrior

    Destiny Warrior also known as Darkwing_Duck
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    He said he's using the old format, where 2 +2s such as Swift Swim + Shell Break make a +4 instead of a +6.
  11. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    Thanks, fixed.


    Yes, I know that, but I did say in the OP I'm following the old format, but I will change if I get overwhelming support for me to change it.
  12. calze6

    calze6

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    Nice work! Forretress is mispelt, btw.
  13. Mew

    Mew

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    You should add max speed +nature scarfed Kyuremu. It can reach a speed stat of 433 with 252 EVs, +spe nature and a Choice Scarf.
  14. Plusle

    Plusle

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    Seconding this, with hail support kyuremu is a absolute boss.
  15. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    You mean neutral nature (because I already have +Spe)?? I guess I could. Will add.
  16. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    I'm wondering what determines the standards to make it into a Tier e.g. why is the minimum Spe for Tier 0 neutral nature 252 Spe Deoxys. It seems strange to have a massively clustered Tier 0 in terms of speed marks (just look at the size of the
    Show Hide
    section) and a much less clustered Tier 1 and 2. Even in terms of Spe stats reached, the Tier arrangements seem odd. Tier 0 ranges from 885 to 399, Tier 1 from 394 to 333, whilst in base stat values, Tier 2 only ranges from 90 to 102, whilst Tier 1 ranges from 102 to 149. The assortment of Spe values into Tiers appears very random. Would it be possible to restructure our Tiers so they appear less random, more even in terms of the number of speed marks and what Spe values are included in each Tier. I was thinking of something like this, comments in red. Base Spe values are calculated assuming a +nature, as if you want to guarantee you'll outspeed a Pokemon, you'll usually assume it has the max Spe possible without a Speed boost. Also, most sweepers are using a +nature this Gen (almost everything with 252 Spe EVs that has at least 90 base Speed).

    Proposed Tiers for speed marks (open)
    Tier 0 = 505+ Spe, >180 Base Spe (with +ve). I would normally associate Tier 0 being a Tier that is normally not reachable or is only reachable under certain conditions. In this case, it is not possible to reach this Tier without a Speed boost e.g. Scarf, Agility. This Tier will not be as small as it looks, in fact, it has more speed marks than in the current Tier 1 and 2.
    Tier 1 = 504 - 394, 180 Base Spe to 130 Base Spe. Very fast Pokemon reach this tier without a Spe boost, using Jolteon/Mewtwo and Deoxys-S as benchmarks. Common Scarf users generally aim to at least make this Tier such as Heatran.
    Tier 2 = 393 - 328, <130 Base Spe to 100 Base Spe. 100 Spe has commonly been the associated benchmark for many sweepers. The Base Spe value range is less than that of Tier 1, as many more Pokemon have base Speed values within the range of Tier 2.
    Tier 3 = 327 - 262, <100 Base Spe to 70 Base Spe.For Pokemon who don't hit the 'main' speed benchmark e.g. 100 base Spe, but aren't quite slow. 70 is the base so that the base speed range's size is the same as that of Tier 2
    Tier 4 = <262, <70 Base Spe. Slow Pokemon. An extra Tier will help even out the sizes of the different Tiers. Pokemon on Trick Room teams will usually want to reach this Tier. Making a Tier 5 with the min Base Spe of 40 is a possibility, but many Pokemon in Tier 4 won't be running Spe EVs and don't really care about outrunning certain threats; Spe is usually not much of an issue in this Tier.



    Also,
  17. pepiux

    pepiux

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    I believe Breloom is missing.

    Excellent job, though.
  18. Plusle

    Plusle

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    350 / Latias, Latios, Lugia, Gengar, Jumpluff / 110 / +ve / 252 / +0



    Add espeon
  19. shrang

    shrang Reaction to Ubers ladder
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    That sounds good, I'll just do that now and it'll be ready for HTML.

    EDIT: Done
  20. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    I believe max speed Timid Jolteon should be next to Mewtwo, at 394 speed.

    EDIT: 500th post yeah!
  21. Arcanite

    Arcanite

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    Add Arcanine in the same places as Hihidaruma!
  22. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Deoxys-S belongs in Tier 1, not Tier 0 (>180 base Spe, and a Speed boost is required to reach this tier).
  23. cosmicexplorer

    cosmicexplorer pewpewpew
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    +1 Randorosu (Scarfed) should probably be in there too, at 496 speed.
  24. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Slacking Off

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    Since the whole point of Speed Tiers is to be a quick reference for figuring stuff out, putting in counterfactual (or even downright confusing) information strikes me as a really bad idea. For example Chesto DD Kingdra could get to +3 in Sand, and by the same token it could get +1 in Rain. Omastar could get +4 by Rain + Shell Smash, or it could Shell Smash twice. I know it might seem like it isn't that big a deal, but it'd be real easy to write +2 in rain as "+2/+2" instead to be more clear than +4.

    EDIT: Not that it matters too much, but min speed Natty is 40, not 37, which is important for gyro ball and for TR.
  25. yee

    yee
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    Just noticed a typo there, should be neutral nature. Good job, but is it too much to put something like +2/Swift Swim next to Kingdra/Omastar etc.?

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