5th Gen Ubers

[MK Ultra]

Yeah, I'm terrible at making thread titles. But here we go anyway.

Team-Building Process

Since it's a new generation and no-one knows much, I decided to randomly generate an Uber to start the process off. It came up Manaphy, so I wanted a Kyogre too. After that, I started looking at leads. I wanted an anti-lead, mainly because Deoxys-S was getting screwed by Magic Coat, and the only Uber really getting hit by Rocks is Ho-oh. I had a Victini, but I wasn't getting enough power. So I looked at Mewtwo. I have taken 2 or 3 pokemon out with Mewtwo's speed, power and versatility. I then wanted a revenge killer. I noticed Kyurem wasn't getting much love in Uncharted, so I tried my own set out, and it works wonders. One key part of Ubers is strong Dragon attacks. So I wanted a Steel-type, and I wanted some physical power, so an SD Arceus-Steel fit the bill perfectly. I think for my 6th poke, I had a Zekrom, but I was getting torn up by CM Arceus, so I took at first a Giratina-O, then Ho-oh.

Update: Even though it's a Manaphy team, I wasn't happy with Manaphy, and had no real Kyogre stopper, so I put Palkia in. The current lineup is: Mewtwo/Kyogre/Rayquaza/Palkia/Arceus-Steel/Darkrai.

Under the Microscope

Mewtwo@Life Orb
Timid|Pressure
252 SAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Psycho Break
Flamethrower
Ice Beam
Aura Sphere

Quite simple. Flamethrower for Forretress and Nattorei, Ice Beam for Dragons, Aura Sphere for Zoroark and Psycho Break for Special walls. Mewtwo has excellent stats, perfect for leading. It outspeeds near-everything and can hit like a truck.

Kyogre@Choice Specs
Timid|Drizzle
252 Spe/176 HP/80 SAtk
Water Spout
Boil Over
Thunder
Ice Beam

SpecsOgre, famed for the ability to 2HKO Blissey with Water Spout. I use Boil Over over Surf as it gives the ability to burn a lot without losing a lot of power (or KOs). The EVs are to survive SpecsPalkia's Thunder and KO back with Thunder.

Palkia@Choice Scarf
Hasty|Pressure
252 SAtk/252 Spe/4 Atk
Surf
Outrage
Draco Meteor
Thunder

ScarfPalkia is working well as a Kyogre stopper/clean-up mon right now. Surf over Hydro Pump as Palkia in the rain is scary enough. Palkia's base 100 speed is amazing for a Scarfed set, outspeeding Groudon, Kyogre, Rayquaza, Dialga, Zekrom, Reshiram and others.

Rayquaza@Life
Jolly|Pressure
252 Atk/252 Spe/4 HP
Swords Dance
Dragon Claw
Extremespeed
Earthquake

Scarf Kyurem was doing great, but I needed Ground and Fighting resists, so this is my Rayquaza set. It's going great so far, but I really miss the STAB Scarf Ice Beam; Skymin is a little more difficult to deal with now. SD Quaza is useful twofold. Firstly, it packs insane power, reaching 738 Attack. Secondly, it packs priority, useful for revenging, and just plain useful.

Arceus@Iron Plate
Jolly|Multitype
252 HP/252 Spe/4 SAtk
Will-O-Wisp
Calm Mind
Judgment
Recover

On j99's recommendation, I've changed this to a CM Arceus. I'm liking it so far, but unfortunately I don't have much to say.

Darkrai@Leftovers
Timid|Bad Dreams
252 SAtk/252 Spe/4 HP
Dark Void
Substitute
Focus Blast
Dark Pulse

Stallbreaker Darkrai is for getting through Arceus, and it's working well so far, though I haven't played enough to say a lot about it.

Synergy

Mewtwo (designed to die, but):

Dark goes to: Arceus, Darkrai
Bug goes to: Arceus
Ghost goes to: Arceus, Darkrai

Kyogre:

Grass goes to: Arceus, Rayquaza
Electric goes to: ?

Rayquaza:

Ice goes to: Manaphy, Kyogre, Arceus
Dragon goes to: Arceus
Rock goes to: Arceus

Arceus:

Fighting goes to: Rayquaza
Fire goes to: Kyogre, Palkia
Ground goes to: Rayquaza

Darkrai:

Fighting goes to: Rayquaza
Bug goes to: Arceus

Threat List

Lati@s - Specs versions are revenged by Quaza, while Scarf is handled by Arceus. The difficulty comes in knowing which one.
Dialga - Bulk up only. I have literall nothing aside from geting lucky with Ray while it's sleeping, and even that doesnt work when it has a lot of boosts.

I'm currently at around 25 on Smogon's PO server.

 

[j99ubers]

OK, just a few changes I would recommend. Ho-Oh doesn't really have much place on a team without a Rapid Spinner or a Groudon and in order to beat CM Arceus you seem to be reliant that the opponent has a Groudon on their team. If you really need something to beat CM Arceus I would recommend a Darkrai as it can sleep and set up on most variants. There isn't much point on using a Life Orb on Kyogre as it hits so hard with Choice Specs it rarely needs to change moves. At the moment once SD Arceus gets a single SD it can ohko your entire team with rocks down. Changing Steel Arceus' to a CM variant and running a moveset of

-Will-O-Wisp
-Calm Mind
-Recover
-Judgment

with maxed HP and speed gives you something that can check it and provides you with a far more threatening sweeper than Physical Steelceus.

 

[MK Ultra]

Thanks j99, though I have noticed Darkrai makes playing around Groudon very difficult, as I have no Ground resist. I end up having to sacrifice something and bring Manaphy in. I also lack a Fighting resist.

I've put in a Scarfed Rayquaza running Draco Meteor/Outrage/Earthquake/Overheat.

 

[Myzozoa]

I am know nothing about gen 5 ubers, I literally don't even know what a victini is, but I still think I can give some useful suggestions.

My first suggestion is change rayquaza to something other than scarf, this is mainly do to a stealth rock weakness, people are still going to play stealth rock just as religiously in gen 5 as far as I know, and 25% every time you come is depressing. Scarf Quaza will not out run any boosting uber sweeper excepting when it wins speed ties with the fire dragon and electric dragon pokemons whose names I dont know. Quaza already has access to extreme speed which is much better for it than scarf at it can threaten pokemon who outspeed it while simultaneously pulling off swords dance set that deals massive damage to walls, so change quaza to mix or swords dance or dragon dance.

I dont know what the new moves for gen 5 are, but looking at types of the new pokemon, you need to run a real kyogre set, not a life orb set that kills itself. Once your kyogre is dead, your opponent will send in groudon (I promise you opponent has groudon, it is too good to pass up with reshiram and other uber fire types around) and massively screw you because manaphy cant take stab base 150 fire attacks in the sun. This is easy to fix, change kyogre to a sleep talker with calm mind, max out the evs in hp and either speed or a defensive stat, the high speed can be useful to tie with the base 90 electric dragon which will undoubtedly be used to revenge kill water types who use calm mind in gen 5.

That being said, your team is shitted on by that electric dragon, it comes in and uses that new electric type uturn (hint best move in the game by far) and forces you to switch out while it does. This slowly eats up your arceus whch is the only thing that can come in. After arceus gets uturned once the next time you switch it in it gets focus blasted and you lose. SO change manaphy to a ground type like dugtrio to trap that fucker as it tries to uturn. Groudon is also a decent choice as its pretty bulky and takes zekrom's (thats its name I remember now) physical dragon attack no problem.

Change arceus to a more neutral type like ghost, because the way gen 5 ubers seems to be shaping up, stab steel is going to resisted often, and fire types are going be able to go through our arceus which sucks.

Change lead mewtwo to lead zekrom or move the ground type I suggested above to your lead position, because if i ever play gen 5 ubers im leading with that electric type uturn attack as much as possible (scarf zekrom lead anybody?) and groudon will get a free turn to set up rocks, or to fire off a eq at whatever comes in.

Also, I think darkrai is an unreliable way to get around arceus, but it shouldnt be difficult to play around.

SHort things:
1. If you still want scarf dragon consider that dark-dragon, as its base 98 speed is higher than many others. T
2. Watch out for fire grass thing that raises its speed, it is a gigantic threat. Consider latias to deal with it.
3. Try really hard to get zekrom on this team, it is substantially better than every pokemon on this team with the possible exception of groudon if you decide to add it in. If you dont take any of my suggestions, you have to put zekrom on your team is at baits groudon like no pokemon has ever baited groudon before. Your team hates the sun.

 

[MK Ultra]

Firstly, Scarf Rayquaza is for the Ground and Fighting resist. The alternative is Lugia, and I'm not running that. Zekrom is actually run very little because of the prevalence of Groudon. Volt Change really isn't that good; I'm not sure where you got best move so far from. Arceus-Steel isn't for the offensive prowess of STAB Steel, it's for the excellent set of resistances that 120/120/120 defences and pure Steel typing brings. There is also no Fire/Grass pokemon.

Can I get lead usage statistics anywhere?

 

[Myzozoa]

Fire/bug pokemon I meant. And why would you want rayquaza as a fire ground resist, it isnt especially bulky, and with a choice scaf, all those fighing grounds just switch into something that can take a stab dragon attack and then ray quaza has to switch out and take 25% coming back in. Quaza is frail, and with a scarf its also fairly weak. Fighting and grounds take 6% from SR quaza takes 25 its that simple to see its a losing solution. Ghost type arceus can handle fighting pokemon, and its bulky enough to go up against most groudons too. Also, bulky kyogre with rest can come in on groudon many times and threaten it out, and end sun. If Pure steel typing on arceus is what forces you to use a scarf quaza you should consider changing its typing.

 

[j99ubers]

Fire/bug pokemon I meant. And why would you want rayquaza as a fire ground resist, it isnt especially bulky, and with a choice scaf, all those fighing grounds just switch into something that can take a stab dragon attack and then ray quaza has to switch out and take 25% coming back in. Quaza is frail, and with a scarf its also fairly weak. Fighting and grounds take 6% from SR quaza takes 25 its that simple to see its a losing solution. Ghost type arceus can handle fighting pokemon, and its bulky enough to go up against most groudons too. Also, bulky kyogre with rest can come in on groudon many times and threaten it out, and end sun. If Pure steel typing on arceus is what forces you to use a scarf quaza you should consider changing its typing.

Tbh when I've been using steel arceus Groudon has never once forced me out as I just Will-O-Wisp or, with a few Calm Minds, KO it with Judgment. Without Steel Arceus his team lacks a consistently reliable switch in to Dragon attacks. Few things can genuinely stop CM Steelceus once it has a few CM set up.Pretty much only ScarfChomp can do anything to it and it can't switch in to Will-O-Wisp or Judgment. Although I agree with you that Scarf Ray isn't the most useful Scarfer that a team could use. Using one of the Latis could be a good idea as they can easily sponge up Special attacks and take Ground and fighting attacks.

 

[MK Ultra]

Another update: Considering I'm using Palkia and Rayquaza, I've swapped their roles. ScarfPalkia and SDQuaza.

Rayquaza really isn't frail when you only come in on resisted attacks, and there's a little something that stops Dragon resists coming in. It's called prediction. Urugamosu really isn't used at all. You say it yourself, you know very little about the Gen 5 ubers environment.

 

[trickroom]

TFew things can genuinely stop CM Steelceus once it has a few CM set up.Pretty much only ScarfChomp can do anything to it and it can't switch in to Will-O-Wisp or Judgment.

I disagree with this.
Garchomp survives +1 Judgement and 2hko back with Earthquake or OHKO with a band. Ho-oh is the best Steel Arceus counter as he fears nothing but toxic and laughs at Judgement. As a bonus, Ho-oh isn't even affected by Will-o-wisp. Calm mind Kyogre sets up alongside Steel Arceus if you lack Roar and win the calm mind war. Kyogre even has a sexy 30%burn rate. Both Ho-oh and Kyogre have titanic Special defense along with a resistant so they don't mind Judgement at all.

Scarf Terakion can KO Steel Arceus with Close combat after spikes damage although he can't switch in on Will-o-wisp or Judgement. Shandera gets a special mention by completely walling plus trapping Steel Arceus and OHKO it with Overheat. Magnezone with Metal sound traps and KOes Steel Arceus with Thunderbolt.

 

[j99ubers]

Yeh Ho-Oh is definitely the one thing I've had the most trouble with when using CM Steelceus. Shandera is irritating but due to team preview you should always make sure that its gone. I haven't faced alot of CM Kyogre when I've been using this but its pprety easy to pair this with Zekrom to destroy that. But overall its hugely difficult to face especially with good team support and after a few CMs you simply have to hope that your physical attackers dont switch in on a Will-O-Wisp.

 

[lordkira]

I was just wondering, how do you deal with the ExtremeKiller set?
The set can 1hko every single one of your mons after a swords dance.

 

[j99ubers]

Although it comes down to a speed tie (if the Extremekiller invests fully in speed) his Steelceus can outrun and burn the Extremekiller vastly reducing its sweeping potential.