Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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Just for reference; a Choice Specs Modest 252+ Special Attack Adaptability Dragalgae Draco Meteor versus 252 HP/ 252 +Def/ 4 Sp Def Bronzong = 53.55-63.01%. So after the -2 SA, you won't be able to 2HKO... and this is the most powerful attack Dragalgae can muster against a physically defensive spread. Make of it what you will.
252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 154-182 (45.56 - 53.84%) -- 51.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I mean it's not a surefire 2HKO and you do have to hit a couple of focus misses but it's not like Dragalge can't touch Bronzong. You can take at least 1 EQ so you will likely be able to beat it a lot of the time, especially if it has already taken prior damage whle setting up SR or something. If it is pristine it's not coming in comfortably... if it's their SR carrier, which is quite likely since Bronong doesn't have many other notable moves, it is choosing between killing you and getting rocks up even if you miss a couple times. If Bronzong dares not carry EQ it can't touch you.

Having said that, I can't find a source on Dragalge getting adaptability so this may all be wishful thinking.
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kingdra Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 154-182 (45.56 - 53.84%) -- 51.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I mean it's not a surefire 2HKO and you do have to hit a couple of focus misses but it's not like Dragalge can't touch Bronzong. You can take at least 1 EQ so you will likely be able to beat it a lot of the time, especially if it has already taken prior damage whle setting up SR or something. If it is pristine it's not coming in comfortably... if it's their SR carrier, which is quite likely since Bronong doesn't have many other notable moves, it is choosing between killing you and getting rocks up even if you miss a couple times. If Bronzong dares not carry EQ it can't touch you.

Having said that, I can't find a source on Dragalge getting adaptability so this may all be wishful thinking.
kingdra does not learn focus blast, perhaps you mean goodra.

Can we talk about uber pokemon dropping down a tier this generation?

Firstly, landorus-I's inability to abuse sand force, and its pretty sparse movepool to abuse sheer force doesnt allow it to be exactly overpowered. TOrnadus-Therian is unable to spam hurricane like it once could, and despite potent regenerator u-turn spamming, a clear lack of offensive prowess with 100 base attack acrobatics, or 110 base satk air slash for STAB just isnt as strong as it once was. Excadrill's sand rush isn't nearly as able to threaten teams with sweeps, now that weather expires so quickly.
 
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252+ SpA Choice Specs Dragalge Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Bronzong: 154-182 (45.56 - 53.84%) -- 51.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I mean it's not a surefire 2HKO and you do have to hit a couple of focus misses but it's not like Dragalge can't touch Bronzong. You can take at least 1 EQ so you will likely be able to beat it a lot of the time, especially if it has already taken prior damage whle setting up SR or something. If it is pristine it's not coming in comfortably... if it's their SR carrier, which is quite likely since Bronong doesn't have many other notable moves, it is choosing between killing you and getting rocks up even if you miss a couple times. If Bronzong dares not carry EQ it can't touch you.

Having said that, I can't find a source on Dragalge getting adaptability so this may all be wishful thinking.
51% is also the chance of hitting two Focus Blasts. So that's more of a 25% chance of getting past Bronzong in two moves.

If Dragalge really does get Adaptability (source?), it'll be neat for muscling past Fairies, but it's stopped by Steels as hard as any other Dragon and is not likely to be accomplishing anything the better ones can't.
 
What about Talonflame?
It might need a choice band to do damage in OU with that shitty 80 base attack, but Priority Brave Bird is amazing.
 
As a Pokémon fan, I was so amazed with this Generation's games. They are so beautiful in many aspects; however, as a competitive player, I got very disappointed way too soon. I left competitive play during the later part of Gen V, so I didn't get to see exatcly why Keldeo, Alakazam, Technician Breloom and the Unova legendary trio's Therian-formes became such feared Pokémon, so perhaps I'm a bit too rusty to make accurate comments, but anyways...
Gen VI is looking to be, by far, the generation that introduced the most disappointing set of Pokémon. So far, the only Pokémon that seems to be unanimously expected to be OU is Aegislash. I was really hyped for Barbaracle and Malamar, which look pretty interesting and seemed promising competitively, but, at the end, all of these new additions turn out to be somehow outclassed by older Pokémon, making their niches "meh" at best. It even looks like the only competitively-relevant stuff happening this Gen involve Mega Evolutions, a couple new moves (such as Parting Shot and Sticky Web, which, so far, are getting pathetic distribution) and the overall nerfs to weather/special attacks.
I can't help but to be disappointed seeing how weak and unsurprising (bar very few examples) the new Gen Pokémon are turning out to be. Also, all of the somewhat interesting Pokémon from this Gen seem to be awfully slow, which just adds on to the fatalist-looking future for these new creatures.
Optimistically speaking, though, I can only see around ten Gen VI Pokémon, at most, reaching OU, even if it's only for a while:
1.- Aegislash - Most solid candidate so far.
2.- Goodra - Apparently, the new pseudo-legendary, but still outclassed by many other dragon-types.
3.- Greninja - Protean sounds promising, but those awful defenses don't.
4.- Barbaracle - Outclassed by Cloyster or not?
5.- Gourgeist - Interesting typing, perhaps a decent spin blocker, but nothing astounding.
6.- Malamar - Contrary is such a godlike ability, and it has some tools to take advantage of it, but its stats, Speed particularly, just seem too lackluster to realistically hope for a solid position in OU.
7.- Dragalge - At some points (and just like with every other Pokémon in this list), some user says something about him that makes it look great, but then, someone else appears to say something that makes it look like an UU Pokémon at best. Haven't tried him out yet, however.
8.- Talonflame - Looks solid with that incredible ability in Gale Wing, but it's just too frail and also has an overwhelming 4x weakness to SR. It can perhaps turn out to be a case similar to Volcarona's and get great performances with adequate support.
9.- Florges - Maybe? I haven't read much about her, but she is frequently mentioned... I don't know.

Every other Pokémon discussed so far just seem to be so painfully disappointing.
 

Surgo

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I would like to point out that both Rain and Sun are just as weak as they were in Gen 4. Because they relied on the rocks to lengthen weather times, a luxury they don't havewith the auto inducers, which is a trap I see alot of people falling into. Poli AND Tales will both have a hard time staying OU. I doubt either of them will be higher than UU.
No, just, no.

The rocks made weather work at all because you had to spend a turn making your weather. Weather inducing traits might not make infinite weather anymore, but they still make weather with zero loss in momentum. The only downside that these pokemon have is that they suck, not that the weather doesn't last longer than your battle anymore.
 
9.- Florges - Maybe? I haven't read much about her, but she is frequently mentioned... I don't know.
Eh, Sylveon is better in all but, like, speed.

Honestly, what this gen added in OU pokemon isn't an absurdly high number (though I note you forgot Noivern, I'm starting to look up at the potential on that thing). What it DID add was a more varied metagame, and one where all of the new pokemon will have a use at some level of play (however low or high that may be)
 
There does seem to be a rather low number of really ultra-powerful Pokémon this time (although, there are a low number of new Pokémon in general), which a lot of people have noticed. It looks like Gamefreak are holding back on the power creep after the 140+ attack monstrosities they gave us last generation.

As for my speculation on the new Pokémon:
  • Aegislash is the most solid candidate for OU.
  • Goodra, the dragon pseudo-legend, is in a really awkward position right now, being a dragon that's primarily defensive and having a weather-based ability right around the time weather got nerfed. I don't see it making it further than UU, since the Latis outclass it most of the time. (Though it'll be top UU probably)
  • Dragalge probably won't be OU, despite fairies. It's way too slow and 97 SAtk isn't very impressive.
  • Zygarde has some stiff competition from Garchomp in OU. Having less speed than Hydreigon and not being able to get past Skarmory doesn't help at all.
 
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Shroomisaur

Smogon's fantastical fun-guy.
Eh, Sylveon is better in all but, like, speed.

Honestly, what this gen added in OU pokemon isn't an absurdly high number (though I note you forgot Noivern, I'm starting to look up at the potential on that thing). What it DID add was a more varied metagame, and one where all of the new pokemon will have a use at some level of play (however low or high that may be)
I completely agree. Not all of the new Pokemon are OU material, but I feel like Gamefreak did a great job making them all feel distinct with a role or niche to fill. There's great variety in the new mons. As someone who loves playing the lower tiers, I'm just as excited to see how the new Pokemon will fit into those metagames!

As for OU potential, the top new candidates I see are:
  1. Aegislash... as mentioned by basically everyone else in this thread.
  2. Greninja. Very fast, learns Spikes and U-Turn, decent power and gets Protean STAB on every move. Tons of potential.
  3. Goodra. Everyone seems to be discounting it, but it's a great special sponge with great abilities. In particular, Gooey will allow it to check faster physical attackers. I bet it will see a decent amount of usage.
Beyond these three, there are a bunch of new mons that have specific niches, like Noivern, Sylveon, SD Talonflame, spinblocking Gourgeist, Shell Smash Barbaracle among others. I don't know if these guys will see consistent enough usage to actually make OU, but they will still be very viable choices!

One notable exception imo is Zygarde, I don't think it has a snowball's chance in Mount Chimney of making OU with Chomp around.
 
Why hasn't Sylveon been mentioned yet? Sure its slow but it might see some usage in OU as it looks like a good special wall and it is a fairy counter to the massive amount of dragon threats we had in OU last gen.

I see it using something like:
Wish
Protect
Moon Blast
Heal Bell

ability: Cute Charm
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD


Looks like Espeon but with less speed and more SpD so I think it might see usage at first anyway.
 
Probably because it'll get blown up by the coverage EQs every relevant Dragon seemed to get. The only ones that really suffered from fairies are Haxorus, the former because of his reliance on choice items, and the latter due to all of his primary coverage sans Flamethrower being resisted by Fairies.
 
Honestly, we should be waiting until we get the Egg moves of all these pokemon before speculating too much. Some may end up getting some really strong moves through it, like Greninja.

Speaking of Greninja: He gets two STAB priority attacks in Water Shuriken and Shadow Sneak, as well as Night Slash and U-Turn/Acrobatics/Rock Slide. That's not half bad, to be honest.
 
Why hasn't Sylveon been mentioned yet? Sure its slow but it might see some usage in OU as it looks like a good special wall and it is a fairy counter to the massive amount of dragon threats we had in OU last gen.
Still only counters Hydreigon (and Azumarill does that and more). The Latis still down it quickly with Psyshock. And it can't do anything against physical dragons, unlike Togekiss...
 
Togekiss could see some OU usage again with its new tying completely walling Garchomp's STABs, forcing it to carry either Iron Head or Stone Miss as opposed to Fire Fang as to not get walled by Skarmory. In addition the standard Flinchax Togekiss got a huge buff with the addition of Sticky Web slowing Pokemon it would otherwise have to paralyze to flinchax such as the aforementioned Garchomp. Shame he doesn't get Moon Blast as far as we know.

Air Slash + Dazzling Gleam + Fire Blast/Shadow Ball/Aura Sphere provides amazing coverage. I don't think Aegislash or Scizor would enjoy switching into a Fire Blast or Flamethrower from Togekiss very much. The only Pokemon Togekiss would have to worry about is Heatran who resists/is immune to Flying, Fairy and Fire attacks.


Also why hasn't anyone discussed Tyrantrum yet? He's got STAB Head Smashes with no recoil, enough speed for a choice scarf set to be very effective, high base Attack, access to both Rock Polish and Dragon Dance as well as Hone Claws, a great offensive movepool and a fair amount of physical bulk. Sure, he's got plenty of weaknesses, but damn does he hit like a truck and has all the tools to be a great late-game sweeper.

Galvantula and Shuckle will rise a tier or two simply for Sticky Web. Galvantula leads could be common as the only Pokemon I can see being a good counter to him is Aerodactyl or Talonflame, with the former being the better option as he can set up Sneaky Pebbles and Galvantula will OHKO Talonflame after he does Brave Bird and Galv stays alive via Focus Sash. Sure, he'd die next turn if you switch to someone with any priority, but you'll be putting Galvantula's side at a slight advantage.
 
Galvantula and Shuckle will rise a tier or two simply for Sticky Web. Galvantula leads could be common as the only Pokemon I can see being a good counter to him is Aerodactyl or Talonflame, with the former being the better option as he can set up Sneaky Pebbles and Galvantula will OHKO Talonflame after he does Brave Bird and Galv stays alive via Focus Sash. Sure, he'd die next turn if you switch to someone with any priority, but you'll be putting Galvantula's side at a slight advantage.
Sableye can shut him down as well, given Galvantula's "decent" Special Attack. Same with Whimsicott, due to fairy resisting Bug(Making it neutral). Heck, a lot of things just don't care about Galvantula.

Other things that counter Galvantula or web:
Gengar
Greninja with Water Shuriken(provided it hits enough times, so situational)
Xatu (merely needs to predict web to get its job done)
Same with Espeon (none of them need to stay in)
Contrary pokemon benefit from web
Clear Body pokemon
Excadrill (He'll just spin them away, in your face even)



If he had just 10 more base Sp Atk, none of this would really be a problem......
 
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Greninja will probably be OU because it has decent SpAtk and it's speed (122) is enough to outspeed Alakazam.
 
Greninja will probably be OU because it has decent SpAtk and it's speed (122) is enough to outspeed Alakazam.
Even without that, it has STAB Shadow Sneak. I don't think anyone would bring Zam in on it, regardless of speed.
 
Other things that counter Galvantula or web:
Gengar
Greninja with Water Shuriken(provided it hits enough times, so situational)
Xatu (merely needs to predict web to get its job done)
Same with Espeon (none of them need to stay in)
Contrary pokemon benefit from web
Clear Body pokemon
Excadrill (He'll just spin them away, in your face even).
Bisharp will enjoy the webs too, and it has Sucker Punch to bypass the speed drop.

Still, Galvantula might jump a tier if only for the suicide lead set. It helps that it beats all of the Magic Bounce users and most Rapid Spinners one-on-one (only one that it loses to is Excadrill) and sending out your M-Absol or suchlike anyway is extremely risky business because of this.
 
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Dragalgae has Scald to deal with most Steel types and thanks to Adapatability it's one of the best Draco Meteor spammers in the game since fairies won't attempt to switch on something with STAB Sludge Wave. Plus it has a unique set of resistances. I honestly don't see why anyone would discount it.
What's the source for Adaptability? I haven't seen anything backing it up.
 
Dragalgae has Scald to deal with most Steel types and thanks to Adapatability it's one of the best Draco Meteor spammers in the game since fairies won't attempt to switch on something with STAB Sludge Wave. Plus it has a unique set of resistances. I honestly don't see why anyone would discount it.
Special Defensive M-Mawile is one fairy that can switch in, since it's immune to both STABs and only fears a Scald burn. At 44 Spe Dragalge is slower too, and gets OHKO'd by M-Mawile's Play Rough after SR even with neutral nature.
 
And I still haven't seen confirmation on Adaptability. And it's slow for OU. And as Kriptini mentioned, it goes down like a Pikachu at the sign of a physical move. And Poison/Dragon is bad defensively.

Dragalge needs a LOT of work to make it usable. I don't see it in OU because of that.
 
Spookytree gets Rest/Natural Cure, can spinblock, Horn Leech, decent 90/70/80 defences, and 120 Attack.
If it has some form of priority too it could definitely be a contender for OU imo.
 
Spookytree gets Rest/Natural Cure, can spinblock, Horn Leech, decent 90/70/80 defences, and 120 Attack.
If it has some form of priority too it could definitely be a contender for OU imo.
serebii has more accurate stats with 85/76/82 bulk and 110 attack

and no shadow sneak as of yet. might be an egg move though
 
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