Celebi works very well in ubers. It can switch in pretty well into Groudon and Kyogre then KO with Grass Knot. It sets up Stealth Rock and can Thunderwave stuff. Drapion can set up Toxic Spikes, absorb them, Knock Off (items are really important in ubers), and even random Pursuits I suppose. Lanturn makes a good Kyogre counter and can spread Parafusion. Not sure about Lapras, but they are all worth a mention.
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A call to action ; Ubers
- Thread starter DeLorean
- Start date
I'll put you down; thanks.
EDIT: Oops. Misread, sorry. ^_^
Although all important points, I feel like all of these will only need a slight mention. I'm adding a separate list for this soon.
I think Shiftry does need a bit more attention. It's dual STABs hit most of the metagame pretty hard, with only to choose from Hidden Power Ice for Rayquaza or Hidden Power Ground for Metagross and Dialga. This is strictly speaking of using Nasty Plot, but albiet it needs Groudon support and probably a Focus Sash to get things going. It's still not a bad sweeper and works best under Double battles.
I'll add it to the list, I overlooked this when I was looking for pokes. I love shiftry.
Um, last I checked, Celebi was a FAR superior option in Ubers than Shiftry.
Are you joking me?! You're telling Tsurukawa that you will give Celebi, Drapion, and Lanturn a slight mention while Shiftry gets an immediate adding to the list? I'm sensing a little bias here.
I've been leading with a Celebi in ubers under my "damnsnow" account since the advent of the Ubers Ladder on the official server, and I can tell you from personal experience that Thunder Waving Mewtwo / Kyogre / Deoxys-A while they Ice Beam me, Recovering until an FP and then setting up Stealth Rock and then switching to an appropriate sweeper has been phenomenally useful. Not only does Celebi lose its fire weakness with Kyogre, it provides Paralysis and Stealth Rock support as well. How can this only be considered a slight mention?
Drapion I admittedly have minimal experience with, so I'll let the slight slide here. I do hear, however, that that kid Obi, whoever he is, has been using it to some success. Maybe you should ask him his opinion on it.
Lanturn is great because it takes minimal damage from Water and Ice attacks and completely absorbs Electric ones, making it a beautiful Kyogre counter. It's ability to spread parafusion is also very underrated, as it can take a few hits with that great HP.
Shiftry, on the other hand, gets a speed boost in Sun...and uhh, it gets Sucker Punch I guess for some surprise kills. O, Nasty Plot is cool...except for the fact that when Palkia / Dialga / Darkrai / every other uber so much as looks at it, it faints.
I would give at least Celebi and Lanturn serious consideration, find more information out regarding Drapion, and switch your slight consideration to Shiftry.
Are you joking me?! You're telling Tsurukawa that you will give Celebi, Drapion, and Lanturn a slight mention while Shiftry gets an immediate adding to the list? I'm sensing a little bias here.
I've been leading with a Celebi in ubers under my "damnsnow" account since the advent of the Ubers Ladder on the official server, and I can tell you from personal experience that Thunder Waving Mewtwo / Kyogre / Deoxys-A while they Ice Beam me, Recovering until an FP and then setting up Stealth Rock and then switching to an appropriate sweeper has been phenomenally useful. Not only does Celebi lose its fire weakness with Kyogre, it provides Paralysis and Stealth Rock support as well. How can this only be considered a slight mention?
Drapion I admittedly have minimal experience with, so I'll let the slight slide here. I do hear, however, that that kid Obi, whoever he is, has been using it to some success. Maybe you should ask him his opinion on it.
Lanturn is great because it takes minimal damage from Water and Ice attacks and completely absorbs Electric ones, making it a beautiful Kyogre counter. It's ability to spread parafusion is also very underrated, as it can take a few hits with that great HP.
Shiftry, on the other hand, gets a speed boost in Sun...and uhh, it gets Sucker Punch I guess for some surprise kills. O, Nasty Plot is cool...except for the fact that when Palkia / Dialga / Darkrai / every other uber so much as looks at it, it faints.
I would give at least Celebi and Lanturn serious consideration, find more information out regarding Drapion, and switch your slight consideration to Shiftry.
I don't think you understand the list entirely, aldaron.
I put celebi in the "slight mention" section because I didn't think he would require full sets to be outlined in detail. I was wrong, and I shall make the change.
I too have little experience with drapion; I think a small movepool / EV variation may be the case. I may PM Obi regarding drapion.
I still think shiftry deserves more credit than we give it; although I have recently checked to find it already has an ubers analysis; albeit doubles. I'm moving it to slight mentions.
I put celebi in the "slight mention" section because I didn't think he would require full sets to be outlined in detail. I was wrong, and I shall make the change.
I too have little experience with drapion; I think a small movepool / EV variation may be the case. I may PM Obi regarding drapion.
I understand the ability as a Kyogre counter, but I'm not sold on it's ability to take hits from much except for boltbeam in an enviroment like Ubers. What about faster pokemon that hit neutral; like Rayquaza or Metagross? With the 58 (iirc) defense stat, it looks like lanturn won't be staying in for a long time. I feel like everything you just said needs <p></p> tags, and could almost go in a peer edit.
I still think shiftry deserves more credit than we give it; although I have recently checked to find it already has an ubers analysis; albeit doubles. I'm moving it to slight mentions.
As far as i've seen and used Drapion has little use in ubers besides being able to absorb Toxic Spikes which i'm guessing Obi used it for (although i'd probaly go with Tentacruel or Roserade in that case).
It does get useful moves like it's own Toxic Spikes and Knock Off and does get Swords Dance and Night Slash to hit a lot of Ubers for super effective damage (which Weavile does better anyway). It's either going to be too slow or not defensive enough to take a hit. I personally think it's useless.
Anyway this is something i've been trying in Ubers recently and i'd have to say it's effectiveness is beyond expectations.
Regice @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 150 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Thunder / Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This EV spread allows Regice to a Choice Band Groudon Earthquake while simultaneously OHKOing Max Hp Groudon most of the time with a minimum of 93% damage. Regice's massive Special Defense also allows it to take the majority hits from the majority of Special Attackers in Ubers (Specs Kyogre's Thunder is a 3hko just with max hp) so you see how bulky this actually is. It also gets a note for being able to OHKO Latios even after the Calm Mind. Latios stands a bit of a better chance if it is able to get in a Calm Mind due to it's higher Special Defence and since she mostly runs Hp evs as well, without the Calm Mind it will still 2hko however.
The 2nd slot is totally up to the indiviudal's needs, Thunder will always 2HKO Max Hp Kyogre provided it doesnt Calm Mind first, it also scores a possible 2HKO on max HP Metagross as well as the standard Scizor although it has to be wary of their Super Effective attacks. Focus Blast allows you to 2HKOthat same Metagross and Scizor however you can also score a neat 2HKO on Max Hp Max Sdef Dialga who would probaly a common switch in. Toxic of course is there for being able to Toxic foes on the switch but it leaves you totally walled by Steel Types. Rest and Sleep Talk rounds out the set as a means of recovery and also means it's a reliable switch into Giratina as it is able to rest off Will O Wisp and 2HKO it with Ice Beam.
Life Orb is the core item of the set but one could of course opt to use Leftovers for more durability but you will miss the power boost form the orb.
It does get useful moves like it's own Toxic Spikes and Knock Off and does get Swords Dance and Night Slash to hit a lot of Ubers for super effective damage (which Weavile does better anyway). It's either going to be too slow or not defensive enough to take a hit. I personally think it's useless.
Anyway this is something i've been trying in Ubers recently and i'd have to say it's effectiveness is beyond expectations.
Regice @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Trait: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 108 Def / 150 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Thunder / Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
This EV spread allows Regice to a Choice Band Groudon Earthquake while simultaneously OHKOing Max Hp Groudon most of the time with a minimum of 93% damage. Regice's massive Special Defense also allows it to take the majority hits from the majority of Special Attackers in Ubers (Specs Kyogre's Thunder is a 3hko just with max hp) so you see how bulky this actually is. It also gets a note for being able to OHKO Latios even after the Calm Mind. Latios stands a bit of a better chance if it is able to get in a Calm Mind due to it's higher Special Defence and since she mostly runs Hp evs as well, without the Calm Mind it will still 2hko however.
The 2nd slot is totally up to the indiviudal's needs, Thunder will always 2HKO Max Hp Kyogre provided it doesnt Calm Mind first, it also scores a possible 2HKO on max HP Metagross as well as the standard Scizor although it has to be wary of their Super Effective attacks. Focus Blast allows you to 2HKOthat same Metagross and Scizor however you can also score a neat 2HKO on Max Hp Max Sdef Dialga who would probaly a common switch in. Toxic of course is there for being able to Toxic foes on the switch but it leaves you totally walled by Steel Types. Rest and Sleep Talk rounds out the set as a means of recovery and also means it's a reliable switch into Giratina as it is able to rest off Will O Wisp and 2HKO it with Ice Beam.
Life Orb is the core item of the set but one could of course opt to use Leftovers for more durability but you will miss the power boost form the orb.
I'm making a peer edit now. Thank's so much; this looks like an awesome set.Maniaclyrasist said:
Because there are many absol sets which will not need much changing, he will probably warrant 2 or 3 paragraphs in the "swords dance sweeper" section.RedSP said:
I didn't add absol originally because he's almost outclassed in every way by tyranitar, but I can see he does have some immediate upsides.
Shiftry is being rewritten, the whole analysis needed work.
If an existing set can be used effectively in Ubers, all it requires is a short paragraph and some information in the EV section (if applicable). A new set is only warranted if it is significantly different from the existing ones.
If an existing set can be used effectively in Ubers, all it requires is a short paragraph and some information in the EV section (if applicable). A new set is only warranted if it is significantly different from the existing ones.
Thank you, I'll remove this from the list.
I'm assuming this is the case; I'm putting some up in the section for larger analysis' because I feel as though some lengthy explaining on a whole new set may be needed.
@Aldaron: Obi sent a PM to me saying this about the subject of drapion:
I'm removing it from the list.
I'll put you down for celebi. It's a shame; I' had high hopes. Was it obi that used it? He didn't really give any indication that he did.
