1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

A first attempt, I guess.

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by PureQuestion, Nov 20, 2012.

  1. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    And that's what I wrote before. Then I got some wonderful feedback from you guys, and this is my new team, now up to 1736 ± 55 Glicko2 on the OU Ladder.

    [​IMG]

    Shredder (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake
    - X-Scissor

    As seen in Electrolyte's post below, this was previously an Alakazam. While Alakazam has advantages (destroys Starmie and Gengar effortlessly, among other things) it also had effectively no defensive synergy. Terrakion has considerable advantages compared with the rest of the team. It decimates steel types that would otherwise wall Latios' Draco Meteors, barring Scizor with his bullet punch, but most Scizor sets lack the bulk needed to avoid getting torn apart by a specs Meteor anyway. In general Choice Scarf Terrakion and Choice Band Azumarill make fantastic revenge killer/late game sweeper buddies, tearing through each other's counters like crazy, with the major exception that they both hate Jellicent.

    [​IMG]

    Draconic Fury (Latios) (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Surf

    This set is basically designed to wreak havoc. Draco Meteor does insane damage to nearly anything, even a number of the less bulky Steels running amok. Hidden Power Fire in theory hurts various 4x weak targets, Psyshock hurts pink blobs, and Surf douses Heatran.

    [​IMG]

    Infernal Force (Volcarona) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Flame Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Fiery Dance
    - Giga Drain
    - Hurricane
    - Quiver Dance

    Giga Drain is a godsend to Volcarona. So many would be counters - Politoed, Jellicent, Terrakion, and especially things like Gastrodon - are completely destroyed by Giga Drain, and their futile attempts to switch in provide a handy recovery. Very useful is also . Beyond that, this is basically the Rain set given on the Volcarona page. From a defensive standpoint he gives useful bug, grass, and steel resistances to the team, and can threaten the myriad 4x fire weak pokemon rampaging through OU, and honestly, has pretty competent special defense, though not one to rely on much.

    [​IMG]

    Parade Ruiner (Politoed) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Drizzle
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Encore
    - Toxic
    - Protect

    Pretty decently bulky, actually. Takes 32.3% - 38.5% from an uninvested Jirachi Thunder, which is nice considering how much Jirachi harasses the team in general. The movepool in general is pretty stallish, but it gives Politoed a bit of trouble against steels, barring a burn from scald. My general strategy for dealing with Ninetails, assuming I've just started rain, is to toxic on the almost guaranteed Sunny Day, follow up with protect on Solar Beam, and then switch Volcarona in on the second attempt.

    [​IMG]

    Rabbit Punch (Azumarill) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Huge Power
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Aqua Jet
    - Superpower
    - Waterfall
    - Ice Punch

    The standard Azumarill set. Obviously benefits a lot from rain and makes a superb revenge killer. Able to take on Bullet Punch Scizor one on one, put a heavy dent in Genesect, obliterate Terrakion and Volcarona (and Infernape while I'm at it). Its ability to take on Heatran is very useful given that Latios and Volc tend to be very good at attracting him for walling (and Forretress attracting him for attacking). And of course the pink blobs can't take a superpower, and Ferrothorn really doesn't like it on the switch in. Dragons trying to switch in fall very easily to Ice Punch. As well, he takes 64.35% - 75.74% from a Haxorus outrage, and even 71.78% - 84.4% from Kyurem-B, assuming in both cases a neutral nature (Haxorus still can't OHKO with Adamant, but Kyurem-B has a chance) and a non boosting item (probably a scarf), and thanks to the fact that it's Outrage, there's no worry for coverage moves (like, say, Kyurem-B's Fusion Bolt). Meanwhile, Superpower does 121.93% - 143.36% to Kyurem-B with 4 HP/0 def, and Ice Punch destroys everything else, with a slight chance of Dragonite surviving as long as Multiscale is in tact. And of course Aqua Jet in the rain can destroy pretty much everything that doesn't resist it, with the heavily convenient bonus that a number of physical walls happen to be ground type.

    [​IMG]

    Castleress (Forretress) @ Red Card
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Relaxed Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Rapid Spin
    - Gyro Ball

    Pretty standard Forretress set. Absorbs physical attacks like crazy, sets up hazards, spins them away. Red card is a double edged sword, removing leftovers recovery and such, but it's very rarely (read: never) expected. Serving as a great "get out of set up sweep free" card, albeit a one time one, it's a pretty good last resort. I've also had considerable luck setting up hazards while someone just set up on me forever, only for it to all be phazed away once they reached +6. It also completely ruins Baton Pass teams, which is always fun.

    And now that is my current team.
  2. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte I could hear the sirens sound
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,006
    Hi,

    Cool team! Because of your slant towards special attackers, some prevalent special walls could be quite problematic for you. Tyranitar in particular can be a huge nuisance to your team, as it often comes hand in hand with a bulky water type, which would wall Azumarill, your only Ttar counter, to death. Ttar can also trap and kill Alakazam and Latios, as well as Stone Edge poor Volcorona to death. Jirachi could also be a pain, since Volcorona's Fire attacks are weakened in the Rain. To help you with this problem, I suggest you replace Alakazam with Choice Scarf Terrakion.

    Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
    Jolly / 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Close Combat / Stone Edge / X-Scissor / Earthquake

    What does Terrakion help you with? Well, its blazing fast speed with a scarf lets you revenge nearly all of the DDancers in the tier- Salamence and Dragonite, in particular, who could rip your team to shreds after a DD. Terrakion's fighting coverage will also be super useful when disposing of special walls- Tyranitar and Blissey get knocked to nowhere, and even Jirachi takes a lot of damage. Terrakion's typing also helps you sponge some weaker attacks- such as Genesect's Flamethrower. X-Scissor helps get rid of pesky psychic types such as Latios, though with Volcarona you shouldn't have to use it too much. EQ is for Jirachi mainly, and can also be used when you don't want to drop your defenses when hitting steel types.

    Your Latios set looks a bit weird, so let me suggest some better moves for you. I would definitely use Psyshock instead of Psychic, since hitting Blissey is still pretty cool. I'd use Hidden Power Fire instead of Ice Beam as well, since hitting Genesect / Scizor / Forretress switch ins would definitely bring home some wins. Trick can be used instead of Energy Ball, since it helps you against stallmons like Jellicent. Or, you could use Surf, which, when boosted by Rain and Specs, is more powerful than Psyshock.

    For Politoed, I'd suggest you run a more defensive spread. Having offensive politoed makes you a bit weaker to bulky water types, and having an extra layer of bulk to take hits would really help you prediction / momentum wise. Here's the set:

    Politoed @ Leftovers
    Calm / 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
    Scald / Encore / Toxic / Ice Beam

    Since Politoed frequently lures in Jellicents, you'll be able to Toxic it and then stall it to death. Toxic also helps against other walls, mainly bulky waters, which would stop Azumarill. Encore is a handy support tool for you, locking set up sweepers into their moves and forcing them out. Encore can also be used to force some moves your teammembers are immune to, allowing you to force more switches and gain momentum. Scald is your main STAB, hitting ok, and the occasional burn can be a life saver. Ice Beam is for dragons mainly, as well as some form of coverage, to discourage the rampages of monsters like Lando, Salamence, or Dragonite.

    For Volcarona, I'd use a Timid nature instead of Modest. Timid lets you speed tie with Salamence and outspeed Genesects, which will be extremely useful when you are trying to muscle past your opponent's revenge killers. Timid also lets you pull of a QD before Deo-D can outspeed you, letting you punch holes early game.

    Good luck! I hope I helped!
  3. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    You are completely correct with regards to Jirachi.

    Tyranitar has been tricky at times but I've usually been able to play around him with care, and when he does trap Alakazam he certain doesn't appreciate a Focus Blast to the face before he lands the pursuit...

    I will certainly have to try Terrakion, though.

    Volcarona is supposed to be timid, I may have misclicked somewhere, hrm...

    Thanks for the advice, I'll see if that stuff helps.
  4. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Terrakion gets a boost from Dark Type moves aimed at Latios and Latios can switch in for free against Ground Type moves aimed at Terrakion. I'd say that was a pretty good suggestion! You could also try Scrafty in that slot. Not only can it come in on those Dark Type attacks, but it can also come in on Ghost attacks aimed at Latios as well. It also gives your team a Pokemon with a good bit of special bulk that can sweep.
  5. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    I have to say those changes have been working quite well. So far the biggest annoyance has been Landorus-T, who can sponge anything Terrakion can throw at it and harass both it and Azumarill with Intimidate. Azumarill forces it out pretty easily and I can sometimes do major damage to the switch in with good prediction, so there's that.

    Of course, beyond that Landorus gets torn apart by Latios (whether by the newly added Surf, but usually Draco Meteor, which can fairly heavily damage any switch in that isn't named Ferrothorn, Jirachi, or Bronzong, or that happens to be a pink egg), and Volc after a QD or two.

    The team doesn't appear exceptionally better, but Terrakion offers some nice defensive synergy in addition to being stupid powerful. That said, the scarf results in it being forced out a fair bit more than Alakazam was.

    We'll see if it keeps working. For now, seems to be.
  6. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Switching to Scrafty>Terrakion and Physical Def Politoed>sDef Politoed would give you a better way to check physical threats(Forretress has a lot on its plate), maintain a way to check special threats without risking your weather starter to Tbolts and HP Grass, gives a slight upgrade to synergy imo, and grants you another boosting sweeper that can switch moves.
    I would suggest the standard Bulk Up Scrafty set on site.
  7. Qwertyuiop

    Qwertyuiop

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    Messages:
    122
    Hi,

    Your team is nice, and I like the fact that you used Azumarill, which is quite powerful in rain. But I think some changes can be made to improve it.

    Ice Beam isn't really that useful on Latios seeing that Draco Meteor smashes most things which would be hit super effectively by Ice Beam. Moreover, Psychic is usually an inferior STAB compared to Psyshock as it doesn't hit Blissey and Chansey hard. I'd change your current Latios set to something like:

    Latios @ Choice Specs
    Nature: Timid
    252 Sp.A. / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Trick / Psyshock
    - Thunder / Psyshock

    While Psyshock hits Blissey and Chansey (somewhat) hard, Trick can renders walls like Ferrothorn, the previously mentioned blobs etc. useless. Thunder is a very strong attack, getting you KOs on bulky waters (like the Jellicent you mentioned) if you don't want to lower your special attack. Psyshock can also be used in its place, giving you a nice STAB move.

    For your Volcarona, I agree with Electrolyte that you should make it Timid nature, because you really don't need a +Sp. Atk. nature if you are running LO, and outspeeding Genesect and tying with scarfed base 100s is useful. You might consider Fire Blast > Fiery Dance because with rain, Fiery Dance has very low power (60) while Fire Blast still has about 90 power including STAB.

    For Forretress, I think Spikes > Toxic Spikes is an option. While Toxic Spikes is good, the Steel types rampant in the metagame aren't affected by it. Moreover, Toxic Spikes is usually useful for stall-ish teams, which can take attacks while the opponent is stalled out by the residual damage. For an offensive team like yours, Spikes usually has more utility as with one or two layers, it weakens targets for your sweepers, allowing them to get OHKOs which they would not have otherwise achieved.

    Apart from that, I agree with the Terrakion > Alakazam suggestion as a scarfer is needed in pretty much every offensive team to revenge kill set up sweepers like dragons, plus it reduces your weakness to Pursuit from TTar. I was initially thinking about scarf Keldeo as it can still beat Chansey, but that makes your team too weak to Electric types and Jellicent.

    Hope I helped!
  8. Yarnus of Bethany

    Yarnus of Bethany

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2010
    Messages:
    2,065
    Specs Starmie can OHKO every member on your team after SR and 1 layer of Spike. I suggest replacing Perish Song for Protect on your Politoed to ease up prediction.
  9. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    That's a good point. Choice Specs Keldeo can even 2hko any member on this team with just Hydro Pump. That even includes Politoed without hazards and factoring in Leftovers.
  10. PureQuestion

    PureQuestion

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Messages:
    206
    Posted the newest version of the team.

    I'll say that for the prior version of this team, both Starmie and Keldeo were far less of an issue than you two suggest. Alakazam could reliably OHKO either of them, even without entry hazards, using Shadow Ball and Psychic, respectively (unless they're scarfed but you're explicitly talking about the Specs set).

    And while I'm at it, Volcarona OHKOs and outruns both with Giga Drain if he manages to get a QD in. Hell, he has an 80% chance to OHKO Starmie without it, if I was able to get it on the switch.

    I am starting to be concerned that my team has a gigantic Keldeo shaped hole in it at the moment, though... Starmie, not so much; I've dealt with plenty and they haven't been a huge issue so far. I've yet to run into a Keldeo, though,and now I'm worried what'll happen when I do.
  11. youngjake93

    youngjake93

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,548
    Well, Latios only takes about 58% from Keldeo's Specs Hydro Pump in rain if I recall correctly, outspeeds and KOs with Psyshock. You receive even less damage from a Secret Sword switch-in.
    When I see Keldeo when running a rain team, I tend to lead with a Keldeo check rather than Politoed so that I don't give a free Calm Mind or Substitute. However, Latios is the only thing that would benefit from waiting a few turns to set-up rain in that scenario. Keldeo runs HP Ghost fairly often too.

    Virizion over Terrakion could be an option. Latios is your best Keldeo check right now and here is +1 LO Hydro Pump in rain. A possible 1hko vs safe even after hazards. Although you will have to rely on a speed tie. To compare your current Keldeo check to Virizion:
    252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Latios: 87.04% - 102.66%
    252 +1 SpAtk Life Orb Keldeo Hydro Pump vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Virizion: 70.37% - 82.72%
    Here's outside of rain Choice Specs:
    252 +1 SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Virizion: 54.01% - 63.89%
    252 +1 SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs 0 HP/0 SpDef Latios: 66.78% - 78.74%
    252 +1 SpAtk Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs 4 HP/0 SpDef Latios: 104.64% - 123.18%

    Any of Virizion's sets could be beneficial to this team, even the Dual Screen one, but the Work Up set fills Terrakion's Close Combat role, has Giga Drain to survive against Keldeo and others easily, and can easily break cores such as Jellicent/Tentacruel+Ferrothorn.
  12. Alfalfa

    Alfalfa

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    425
    Forretress really needs Leftovers > Red Card because it has no method of recovery otherwise. Forretress really appreciates the recovery after each turn, whereas the Red Card only has one use.
  13. TGMD

    TGMD +Biosci: you both gave me crabs
    is a Tutoris a Battle Server Moderatoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Tournament Winner

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2011
    Messages:
    998
    Hey PureQuestion, nice team!

    First of all, you're rather weak to rain offense. This may seem a bit ridiculous considering half your team resists water, but none of those water resists have any form of recovery, not only that but Latios lacks any bulk investment, Politoed is incredibly weak and likely won't be able to do anything to the opponent in return, and Azumarill and Politoed are slow, so if you switch in on a specs boosted, rain boosted, STAB boosted Hydro Pump, the opponent will be able to fire off another one before you're able to do anything in return, making them twice as threatening. Your team only has one Fighting resist (other than Volcarona, but you should never rely on your sweeper as a main switchin to anything), making Keldeo, as well as many other fighting types a huge threat, and your team also only has one electric resist, making the likes of Rotom-W and Thundurus-T huge threats. Overall, Latios has a ton of incredibly important resists that your team relies on to check alot of common rain threats, but Latios has no bulk investment, nor does it have any recovery. To help remedy this situation, I suggest running a Life Orb Latias over your current Choice Specs Latios set. Latias is much more naturally bulky than Latios, not only that but it carries recovery and bulk investment, this really helps mitigate your problem with all the rain threats listed above, as you can now switch in on these pokemon multiple times, OHKO most of them back, and recover off any damage taken in the process. Admittedly, this causes you to lose a massive amount of attacking power, but 3 choice users in one team isn't too great in the first place, considering it allows the opponent more set up oppurtunities, and power from the special side isn't really needed that much in the first place, Azumarill is an amazing wall breaker, because of it's massive attack stat and ability to hit alot of the most common physical walls for super-effective damage.

    Toxic Spikes aren't too great in the current metagame, there are steel types everywhere at the moment. The metagame is also incredibly offensive, the battle will likely be over before the Toxic Spikes have actually racked up enough damage to be relevant, the metagame is also extremely frail, it's unlikely Toxic Spikes will actually make a difference between a 2HKO and an OHKO because alot of pokemon are one-shotted by powerful moves after just Stealth Rock damage. Your team is also rather offensive, Toxic Spikes are only really seen on stall teams at the moment as they help with wearing down the opponent. Overall, Toxic Spikes aren't very good in this metagame, nor do they suit this team. Because of this, I suggest running either Spikes or Volt Switch over Toxic Spikes on Forretress. Spikes are much better for this team, rather than wearing down the opponent over time, they take out a chunk of the opponent's health the moment they enter the battle field, allowing you to KO pokemon on the switch much more often. Alternatively, you could run Volt Switch, which gives you momentum, which is incredibly important in this fast paced metagame, it also provides "free switches" allowing Forretress to take damage from the opponent and then bring in another pokemon unharmed, and it decreases reliance on prediction, you don't have to decide whether the opponent will use this move or that move, or will it stay in or go to this pokemon or that pokemon, you can just hit Volt Switch and then bring out the pokemon with the best matchup against the opponent. If you do decide to go with Volt Switch, I'd recommend you run Leftovers over Red Card, as Red Card is mainly there to aid setup, and if you choose Volt Switch, the only thing Forretress has to setup is Stealth Rock, which only takes one turn to setup, and it's pretty likely you're going to set them up because of Sturdy.

    Anyway, I hope this rate helped and GL with the team :)

    Life Orb Latias (open)

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 72 HP / 184 SpA / 252 Spe
    IVs: 0 Atk
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Psyshock
    - Recover

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)