1. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

A Funky Reminiscence

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Reymedy, Oct 17, 2012.

  1. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    “Not long ago I was,
    A sad and lonely boy,
    Did not know how to get better,

    Then heaven up above,
    Sent me a super love,
    And now I'm happy forever.

    No one wants to believe,
    I've got a perfect love,
    They say I'm just talking crazy,

    But I can prove it's true,
    If you'll allow me to,
    Tell you 'bout my Super Lady”

    [​IMG]


    Hi in there!
    As you can see here is my first contribution to the beloved smogon community. Given the fact that it’s been a long time that I’m lurking around, copying and using with not the slightest show of respect the uncredibly amazing knowledge that you guys gathered, I decided to share you something.
    I hope this something will inspirate some people as I don’t really think this team is even close from being good among the insane teams sitting in the website. But who knows, maybe some ideas will bloom inside your mind from the seed that I plant here.
    In fact i’m also really looking for your opinions, undoubtedly relevant, in order to make this team stronger!
    On this side I believe there are quite alot of things that need to be improved but I must admit that it becomes harder and harder for me to put the finger on it as my ability to create a team is poor and dim at best.


    Enough ridiculous verbiage underlining the beginner that I am to praise your help, here in the process behind my team (yup, I swear there is one!) :

    Show Hide
    I began with a simple idea, try Gastrodon in a sand team, I found him to be really a good asset for any sand team given his ability to annoy the rain teams beyong any possible expectation.
    So basically I needed to choose the weather introducer and I opted for Ttar given his versatility (even if I tried Hippowdon, in fact Ttar is also a good contributor to the strategy that I will explain later and which is the spinal cord of the team).

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Now I really wanted something to resist grass, and as Gastrodon deals with Rains, why not a pokemon that could deal with sun teams. Here is my cold blooded lava boy who can wall the classic sun sweeper.

    [​IMG]

    Did I talk about a spinal cord? yup, so here it is. I wanted to play Celebi, but a special one. It would be such a waste to not use his versatility to surprise the opponent. That’s why he is a Sword Dance / Baton Pass Celebi. Moreover his Fighting resistance is a godsend considering the other pokemons I gathered.
    And the following pokemon would be the main recipient of the stacks Celebi could gather. Terrakion seems to fit so well this job, he can soak up the possible Dark atack that Celebi could magnet and set on the stadium already able to totally crush the enemy team. Plus he resists the Fire and Bug moves that could been thown at my Celebi.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    And now, I see you coming “hell! you’re gene/dug weak !”. God yes I know, and this is what this last slot is made for!
    I wanted a pokemon that could switch on a predicted U-Turn and still be able to not allow Duggy on the field. Moreover this pokemon had to be able to come into a EQ because i already decided to give my Heatran a Sheld Shell (and I wanted him to be able to sweep with a SD from Celebi). As you guessed this pokemon is crying “Flying” or “Levitating Ghost”. I even considered Driftblim, he doesn’t seem so weird, but let’s not put too many random things in this team.
    So here is Gliscor, the freaking ninja that can deal with Duggy. By the way, he forms a good unexpected duo with Celebi and can receive a SD for a deadly sweep. He can even just be a transition, granting a substitute to the final sweeper if he gets walled himself.


    [​IMG]

    Finally, with PenguinX observations the team shifted to answer to every weakness he pointed out.
    Rotom-W came over Heatran. [​IMG]
    And then Jirachi came over Gliscor to patch the obvious Grass weakness.
    [​IMG]
    And finally, I put Latios as suggested over Gastrodon because she just was not tanking anything anymore with the new incomers, her role was redondant with Rotom-W's one.
    [​IMG]

    Then after some tests, with a broken heart I switch back Gliscor over Celebi. Well, Celebi wasn't doing so great anymore and Gliscor can still Baton Pass with great success. So, welcome back in the team Gliscor [​IMG]



    The final team, I did not explain so much about the changes, because there was in fact alot of other changes.


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]









    Now, let's move on to the movesets !




    [​IMG]
    MustBeTheSand @ Shed Shell [​IMG]
    Sand Stream Ability
    252 HP / 36 Atk / 64 SpA / 156 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SpD, -Spe)

    - Stealth Rock
    - Fire Blast
    - Crunch
    - Stone Edge

    As announced, the sandman enters.
    As he will be dragged quite often on the field (well at least once) he’s the perfect candidate to put these Stealth Rock.
    After the change of Heatran I decided to stick to PenguinX ideas and to give him the Shed Shell Heatran had, and grant him Fire Blast to soften the departure of my fire maker.
    No much to say there.. this build is classy.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2L2fwP_BDE
    “I'm just the DJ baby , Mixing for you, I will not stop, Til this club night is through.
    DJs may come, And DJs may go, But I'm the best baby, Don't you know.”
    Replace DJ by weather introducer, and you got the song of the sand mixer.


    [​IMG]
    *Change suggested by PenguinX
    CarribeanQueen @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Serene Grace Ability
    252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
    Careful Nature (+SpD, -SpA)

    - Wish
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch

    The new CarribeanQueen instead of Gastrodon. Well she’s less “Carribean”, but much more “Queen”, so I’ll just keep this nickname.
    She deals with these Genius that would bother me without her royal presence. The interesting point is that she could turn to be a devasting bulky sweeper if she receives a SD from her fairy sister Mary Jane. But now, maybe she doesn't need to be physically oriented. What do you think about it?
    She spreads paralysis like noone else, even with Body Slam, most of the time my opponent have to gamble one of his sweeper to threaten her, risking to lose his pokemon if the paralysis occurs.
    The past Gastrodon was bringing too much Grass weaknesses to the team. I had 3 special walls, and noone of them could resist or even be neutral to a Grass move.. what a shame.
    The Wish support is also quite great, it provides my sweeper a secured way to enter into the field, the Queen knows how to care care of her loyal servants.
    Great change overall, I can see no drawbacks.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5ZuagSaKjw
    “She's simply awesome, She dashed by me in painted on jeans, And all heads turned 'cause she was the dream”
    Painted jeans Jirachi yea.


    *Some thoughts on the moveset/EVs ?

    *Here is the Gastrodon I used by the past.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    CarribeanQueen @ [​IMG]
    Storm Drain Ability
    252 HP / 160 SpA / 96 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SpD, -Atk)

    - Ice Beam
    - Surf
    - Earth Power
    - Recover

    One of the reason why this team has been made, she has been such a pain in my ass to deal with when I was playing that I decided to toy with this queen aswell. She’s both tanky on the special side, and threatening when she can grab a Storm Drain boost (which isn’t really rare given Heatran, Ttar, Terrakion and Gliscor presence). That’s why i tried to split these EVs, since she wont be my main answer to special damage but just here to soak up what Heatran can’t take, these are a lil random I must admit. I first put everything possible in HP to maximize recover power, then splitted between SpA and SpD inspired by the Special Atacker build on Smogon. No Toxik in this case, I really love when my opponent scouts my moves and then put his Dragonite on the field assuming my last move is Toxik (happened to me just today). Most of the times she turns out to be a key member who needs to stay alive because her death would create a bunch of holes in my team (just like Heatran, hence this Shed Shell).


    “She said I was the tiger she wanted to tame.. Rrrrroaar”
    (Well, in fact no, but I can stop laughing when I picture the situation in my head)



    [​IMG]

    “You're a shinin' star, No matter who you are”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMOJvKD_26I

    *Change suggested by PenguinX
    The Glow @ Choice Scarf [​IMG]
    Levitate Ability
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Trick

    He’s not really the successor of Heatran, but he’ll be the new owner of “The Glow” name.
    And he carries it with honour, he’s shiny, one hell of a star. With the blazing speed granted by the scarf he will be dedicated to crush the faster threats, and in any given situation, his strong stabs will still weaken deeply the enemy team.
    This set works great, Trick helps alot against the Stall teams as everybody knows. The other moves are there to hit hard against the largest spectrum possible of pokemons. I was pondering on HP Fire/Surf, but after some tests and after the opinion of Shurtugal (thank for sharing it to me!), I definetly switch to HP Fire ! By the way it fits more The Glow's topic...
    Nothing else to say, The Glow is classic and provides my team many raw power and speed, another great change.


    *There was the Heatran I used by the past.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    The Glow @ Shed Shell [​IMG]
    Flash Fire Ability
    248 HP / 252 SDef / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar


    “Flower's bloomin', mornin' dew, And the beauty seems to say, It's a pleasure when you treasure, All that's new and true and gay”
    So true and so gay, that’s what this build is all about. I stole it somewhere from someone but I can’t remember where and who, sorry. However I love when Dugtrio comes after I took a U-Turn, the lame mole screaming at him “Never lonely with you only, Time will always be our friend, Reaching far to find a star, Our destiny is heaven sent”. But my badass froggy just answers to him “No thank, see you dude”. And here comes The Mack (Aka Gliscor) while the mole runs in fear.
    By the way, when the fire users appear to burn Mary Jane and get the smoke out of her, he strikes back these wrongdoers.
    No lefties, so here is the Rest to heal him up. Given this new crappy sleep mechanism, Sleep Talk comes handy and since Heatran can wall so many threats and phaze people, the fire frog is just so annoying to deal with for my enemies. It’s like a Crocune coming from the past generation ADV and I love it!



    [​IMG]
    Curtis @ Toxic Orb [​IMG]
    Poison Heal Ability
    244 HP / 48 Def / 216 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)

    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Taunt


    “But I guess you didn't know, as I said the story goes, Baby, now I got the flow”
    Yes, he's back ! with a slight change in the spread and the moveset, suggested by PenguinX !

    He was the past TheMack, now he replaces Mary Jane and I guess I can't call him Mary Jane...
    This allows me to introduce you Curtis !
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z66wVo7uNw
    "Just move on up, and peace you will find, Into the steeple , of beautiful people, Where there's only one kind"

    This has no flying link with the pokemon in itself, I just wanted to put this song... As the team shifted so much, I guess put the "Move on Up" song is mandatory.
    His job wont change much from what he had to do in the past, he's my main answer to physical hits, but I still need to take care of him as his spread/nature aren't made to take atacks for days. Anyway he can still wall effectively the annoying pokemons.
    With this spread suggested by PenguinX, he outspeeds Deoxys-D and allows me to Taunt, which is always a good thing to have in a team.
    But Curtis is also the driving force of the team, with the Substitutes he provides to the team he can greatly help my other pokemons to enter the battle.
    Not much to say though, I needed a tank for the U-Turns and the Fighting moves... and with this set he fuels my team with dynamism.

    *Optimised the EVs thanks to Chimpakt !







    *There is the Celebi I used by the past :
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    Mary Jane @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Natural Cure Ability
    252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)

    - Sword Dance
    - Baton Pass
    - Recover
    - Zen Headbutt

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhreCLlcq3Q
    “I’m in love with Mary Jane, if Mary wanna play around, I let her have her fun.She's not the kind of girl that you can just tie down.”
    That’s it! So versatile a pokemon can’t be shut down easily. I came with this idea from ADV, since that’s another version, in which I was condemned to build my own teams considering the few amount of published and efficient RMT. And the SD/BPass is quite an deadly set that noone will expect. So Mary just gonna spread her love and her SD.
    Her niche is the Baton Passing of SD paired with a recovery move. Her perfect bulk allows her to fulfil this role quite well, as she will be an impenetrable wall for any Fighting pokemon that would come to threaten my Ttar or my Terrakion with things like Mach Punch (and god, she ***** on Breloom and can just sit there stacking SD). Special mention to the likes of Infernape that would bother Mary, Rotom-W (aka TheMack) is also there to say hello to these monkeys. Even if Mary can Headbutt them right away on the switch anyway.
    As my only dedicated physical wall, she seems weak to Ice Punch, however for instance Celebi takes only ~40% from Conkeldurr IcePunch and by no means can be 2HK0, so it’s not that of a big deal if i’m aware of this.
    Yes, I chosed Zenheadbutt over things like LeechBomb because I can threaten the Fighting Pokemons on which I set up, and I found that I needed this move more than a Grass one (yes I tried LeechBomb first and I was quite often thinking “Me need this headbutt :\”).
    “Do you love me Mary Jane?”

    *If someone got an idea to optimize these EV, share it with me !*
    *Mary Jane is going through tough times, I'm using her less and less, I'm thinking about putting instead of her another Terrakion's partner. Maybe I should consider the return of TheMack Gliscor in this spot, with his built-in heal I got a free slot to turn my BatonPasser into a real threat.




    [​IMG]
    SexMachine @ Salak Berry [​IMG]
    Justified Ability
    4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA)

    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Sword Dance
    - Substitute

    *Set suggested by Chimpakt !

    Well, what else ? He’s a machine and he’s sexy for sure, once he got this SD he becomes a huge threat to any team, he was the formal partner of Celebi, and now he teams with Curtis.
    Curtis is supposed to gives him a Substitute, even if he doesn't share the same golden synergy that shared Celebi and Terrakion, it's still working fine and it's easier to pull off.
    The substitute in this set might seem redudant, but it does help alot in the case Curtis can't pass him a substitute.
    I decided to switch to the Sub/Salak set after the suggestion of Chimpakt, and it was a great change ! Say, I got a Substitute from Curtis, I can just keep spamming Substitute untill I outspeed the enemy thanks to Salak, or Sword-Dance if I feel like I don't need the speed boost yet, or just hit and run !
    This power house brings a huge amount of raw power along with Latios, I can't think about any sweeper that would fit better there.
    “And then shake your money maker” elo maker actually, or kill maker whatever :p
    I wont even bother linking the music, because.. well you know what’s the deal anyway.



    [​IMG]
    *Change inspired by PenguinX’s observations
    TheMack @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Levitate Ability
    224 HP / 32 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)

    - Volt Switch
    - Hydro Pump
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split

    Yup, he’s TheMack, don’t laugh. He looks less badass than Gliscor and Gyarados but I’m still keeping this name for him. When I was testing my team with random changes everywhere, someone just told me during a game “What... wait... WHAT! Did you call this ugly **** TheMack? Da fuck..”. I didn’t even realise it and this made me laugh so hard when I noticed that I decided to grant him this badass name.
    But hell, he still takes care of Curtis and CarribeanQueen’s business like a boss. Someone had to tank Fire moves, and he fix any of Jirachi’s weakness.
    This build fits in so many team it’s not even funny, but that’s for a good reason. His impressive bulk paired with low HP and Pain Split make him so annoying to deal with. WoW takes care of these menacing physical threats. Moreover as a real Mack, he can still flee with ease when the problems come back to him, Volt-Turning away from the cops.
    And well... this long pipe is another reason why he doesnt have to blush in front of Gliscor and Gyarados... To put it in a nutshell, an unexpected but capable TheMack.

    *Changed the Evs to add 32 into SpA, credits to Chimpakt and PenguinX!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB1D9wWxd2w
    “You know that I'll be back, here I am
    Return of the Mack, once again, pump up the world”
    Once again someone takes TheMack’s torch to rule the business.

    *Maybe should I opt for a more offensive version, thoughs?



    *There was the Gliscor I used by the past :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    TheMack @ Toxic Orb [​IMG]
    Poison Heal Ability
    248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)

    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Facade


    “But I guess you didn't know, as I said the story goes, Baby, now I got the flow”
    That’s the swift ninja, I could have put some “Kung-Fu Fighting” lyrics right there, but let’s stick to TheMack topic. He does what Gyarados had to do, take care of what Celebi can’t bar the Ice moves.
    However he brings also some sweet help for the Baton passing, and that’s also why I chosed him over some other pokemons.
    Basically, I stole the smogon set about the Sub+Passing Gliscor, but I’m wondering if all these EVs in speed are needed. I admit, outspeeding Jolly Mamoswine is quite interesting since I’m a little weak to EQ/Ice combo.
    TheMack, as I said, is there to absorb these ground atacks attracted by Heatran, Terrakion and Ttar. And then he can sub up and potentially grant one of my pokemon a free turn which is always great to have. I’m pondering... do I grab this IceFang to rape Flying and Dragon pokemons? Or do I keep Facade to hit harder things like Rotom-W when he switch for, let’s say, a predicted EQ?
    The reliable recovery is what makes Gliscor so good, but I’m well aware that a Fighting pokemon packing something like Mach Punch/ StrongFightingStab / Ice Punch / SD can be a big threat if he sets up. However, as far as I remember, there is no pokemon packing this moveset. Lucario is not far from it but he got ExtremeSpeed/CC/IcePunch/SD most of the time, so Terrakion can take him down. If he got BulletPunch on ExtremeSpeed I’m done for sure, but they are more likely to put it instead of IcePunch.

    He's not a good duo with Celebi on the Physical in the end, and he was stacking alot of the weaknesses shared by the Special Defense part of the team, so sad because I wanted to pull off this set and find him a slot.



    *There was the Gyarados that I used by the past :

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]
    TheMack @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Intimidate Ability
    168 HP / 80 Atk / 252 Def / 8 Spe
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SpA)

    - Thunder-wave
    - Waterfall
    - Dragon Tail
    - Substitute

    “So I'm back up in the game, Running things to keep my swing, Letting all the people know, That I'm back to run the show”
    The old fake dragon sold for 50 pokedollars (what a shame!) is back to run this show. He keeps tabs on Celebi and make sure this Duggy Genesect combo leaves her alone. Even if the Mack doesnt really like these thundy bolts, his carribean Queen can take care of this stuff.
    The Mack loves random and fancy sets, I want him to set his pimped ass on an EQ (Heatran lures them, just like honey attracts bees). And from this situation when the enemy is forced to switch given my impressiv bulk and the intimidate reduction, I have plenty of solutions. I can cripple the incoming threat with T-Wave which is a huge asset for the rest of the fight because I dont have any Scarf or powerful priority atack user. The Mack can also just sweep them away from him with his large and big tail. I can just substitute to scout if I feel like I can’t know for sure the following move of the opponent. And finally, he can do what he’s best at, crushing the ennemy with his Stab that become deadly in the rain.
    People forget about the Mack but when he comes back, they cry in despair and swear they wont mess with his stuff anymore.

    He was doing perfectly everything I wanted him to do.... but this weakness to StealthRock, and the lack of viable recovery move (there is Rest but it cripples him too much imho) hit him too hard. I needed him to come back on the field often, and I was asking too much of him obviously. Nonetheless he's an insane tank who forces switchs like noone else.

    Now he is on Celebi's spot!





    Considered changes :


    - ChestoRest on Rotom-W suggested by PenguinX !
    - Wish/CM Jirachi
    - Protect instead of Fire Punch on Jirachi suggested by Shurtugal !

    What I wish to improve :

    - Fixed
    - Fixed
    - Any big weakness that you would point out !










    I will not do any threat list for now, if the team shifts and if no big obvious threat appear to you anymore, I assure in this case that I will build a detailed list of encountered threats.


    This long post comes to an end, I want to thank anybody willing to help me to improve this team and through this team, my own self.
    I hope I took enough time to explain everything.
    I’m obviously totally open to any criticism, but I would rather like for my little heart, them to not be too violent ;D
    I also want to apologize for my shaky english, I probably made a bunch of mistakes but do not consider it as a proof of laziness, I’m just not totally confident and well-trained on this point.


    If this team reachs a decent level I would be really happy to change this topic to make it look better and share with you the reason why I chosed to put these names on my pokemons (even if many people may have guessed by now), and do some fancy, retarded and poorly made photoshop work !
    (Who wouldn’t pay for a Jirachi in jeans or a DJ Ttar?)


    Have a nice day, and once again thank you for any form of contribution you could bring to this team !
    Give all the love you can to her, because this team is my Super Lady.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0tVUDpwNOX4


    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    PS :
    Show Hide
    I noticed a team called “The Wrath of Fido” that looks like mine somehow. I insist that I did not copy anything from it, and this is by no mean a critiscm on “The Wrath Of Fido” team. The similarites shared just caught my eyes and I wanted to make it clear, even if it seems likely, I’m building my team since quite a while and I wouln’t dare copy like this a team in which someone has put so much effort. Anyway, i noticed many Sand teams would use Celebi (not the forgotten SD/BPass variant though), and for people doubting me, I can share with them the team that inspired me alot but I don’t want to advertise for other websites on Smogon. Nonetheless it was really just an inspiration, and I ensure this team does pack some things I figured on my own.
    Anyway, with the new changes, this team doesn't look like so much anymore to the one I mentionned.
    By the way, if you want to use this team (I look quite presumptuous there) I’d be really glad, but if possible make sure you keep the nicknames, I’d be even happier.
    And before I forget, I apologize for using these picture without asking, I would change them if you disapprove their use.


    CURRENT TEAM IMPORTATION

    Show Hide
    MustBeTheSand (Tyranitar) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 64 SAtk / 156 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast

    The Glow (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Trick

    CarribeanQueen (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    Curtis (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 48 Def / 216 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Taunt

    Sex Machine (Terrakion) @ Salac Berry
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Swords Dance
    - Substitute

    TheMack (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 224 HP / 32 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split



    PAST TEAM WITH CELEBI IMPORTATION

    Show Hide
    MustBeTheSand (Tyranitar) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 64 SAtk / 156 SDef
    Sassy Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Fire Blast

    The Glow (Latios) (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Trick

    CarribeanQueen (Jirachi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Iron Head
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    Mary Jane (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - Baton Pass

    Sex Machine (Terrakion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Substitute

    TheMack (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split



    PAST TEAM WITH GLISCOR SUBPASS IMPORTATION


    Show Hide
    MustBeTheSand (Tyranitar) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    CarribeanQueen (Gastrodon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 160 SAtk / 96 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    The Glow (Heatran) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SAtk / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Mary Jane (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - Baton Pass

    Sex Machine (Terrakion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Substitute

    TheMack (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP / 24 Def / 236 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Earthquake
    - Facade



    PAST TEAM WITH GYARADOS IMPORTATION

    Show Hide
    MustBeTheSand (Tyranitar) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 100 HP / 252 Atk / 156 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    CarribeanQueen (Gastrodon) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Storm Drain
    EVs: 252 HP / 96 SDef / 160 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Earth Power
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Recover

    The Glow (Heatran) @ Shed Shell
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 SAtk
    Calm Nature
    - Lava Plume
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Mary Jane (Celebi) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Zen Headbutt
    - Recover
    - Swords Dance
    - Baton Pass

    Sex Machine (Terrakion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - Quick Attack
    - Substitute

    TheMack (Gyarados) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 168 HP / 80 Atk / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature
    - Thunder Wave
    - Dragon Tail
    - Substitute
    - Waterfall
  2. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    474
    Hey Remedy, this is a really cool team! I'm really loving the use of SubPass Gliscor here, as I'm currently in the process of tweaking a team based around it myself, although mine looks pretty different (its based around CBTar / SubPass Gliscor / CM Keldeo). Smogon's OU Community Create A Team is also currently building a team around SubPass Gliscor. It would be great to get someone else with experience with the set to give some input!

    Anyway, onto the rate. Celebi and Gastrodon make a very solid anti-rain pair but there's still one notable Rain sweeper who can cause you some problems: Tornadus-T. It causes massive issues for your team between Hurricane and Superpower alone, especially since you have no Choice Scarfer to fall back on. I feel like Heatran is also a bit of a weak link on this team, as its overlapping roles with Tyranitar. I think it might be a good idea to try a Specially Defensive Jirachi over Heatran, as its about as hard a counter to Tornadus-T as they come. This does open you up a lot to Dugtrio Sun teams however, so you should probably go with Shed Shell Tyranitar and try out a more Specially Defensive spread to allow you to tank hits from Sun teams as well as avoid being trapped by Dugtrio.

    The only other major suggestion I'd like to make is the addition of a Choice Scarf Pokemon somewhere. You seem pretty weak to numerous boosting threats such as Dragonite and Gyarados, but I really like how the team looks at the moment. I'd probably say Celebi is the most replaceable Pokemon on the team at the moment as it overlaps a lot with Gastrodon in terms of what it checks and counters, but then you'd lose out on Baton Passing Swords Dances which seems to be the entire focus of the team. For some reason I really like the idea of Choice Scarf Celebi on this team although Choice Scarf Latios would probably be much better in practice, as it still has excellent natural bulk while being able to check some of the bigger threats to your team and get some surprise KOs in the process. It has similar resistances to Scarf Latios and Latias but its STAB Leaf Storm and access to U-Turn mean its not instant Pursuit bait for Tyranitar, although the loss in speed is noticable. Although you lose Swords Dance, you could simply just run Swords Dance over Quick Attack on Terrakion, and use a Jolly nature to outspeed Jolly Garchomp and speed tie with opposing Terrakion and Keldeo. Rock Gem is also a good option over Life Orb to have a very good chance at OHKOing Gliscor and Slowbro at +2, but it isn't necessary.

    Finally (I think), this team really doesn't like hazards at all. Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn get easy Spikes set-up against a lot of your team especially with the loss of Heatran, and the hazard damage racks up very quickly against your 5 Grounded team members. Deoxys-D offense teams also seem particularly problematic, as they are guaranteed Stealth Rock and Spikes against you at the very least. The easiest way to help alleviate without trying to find room for a Rapid Spinner would be to try Taunt over Facade on Gliscor and try a Jolly Nature with 216 Speed EVs, allowing it to outspeed Timid Deoxys-D. Fire Blast over Crunch / Pursuit on Tyranitar would also be a good option to prevent it from being complete set-up fodder for Skarmory, Forretress and Ferrothorn, as well as giving it an option to hit Breloom switch-ins.

    tl;dr
    SDef Jirachi over SDef Heatran
    Shed Shell Tyranitar - Sassy / Brave Nature w/ Fire Blast
    Choice Scarf Celebi / Latios over SD Celebi - Scarf Latios is probably the best option actually, just did some calcs and Celebi is incredibly weak (doesn't even OHKO 0 HP Genesect 100% of the time)
    Taunt Gliscor - Jolly Nature 216 Spd
    Sword Dance, Jolly Terrakion
    Fire Blast Tyranitar

    Sets:
    Show Hide
    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 SDef / 40 Spd
    Careful Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Body Slam
    - Wish
    - Protect

    Celebi @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Psychic
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Fire]
    - U-Turn / Trick

    I imagine Scarf Latios would be better here but I just liked the idea of Celebi here for some reason.

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock / Trick
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Trick
    - Surf / Trick


    I know it looks like I changed a lot but most of it is just patching up weaknesses I made in the first place with the first couple of suggestions. Cool team, gl!

    edit: also just a tweak, but Gastrodon gets an extra point in Special Defense if you use an EV spread of 252 HP / 60 SAtk / 188 SDef with a Modest Nature.
  3. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Hello Penguin !

    First thanks alot for the advices, all your points seem to be quite relevant, and you raised them in a detailed way !

    For the team smogon is currently building, I will cast a glance on it for sure ! And good luck for the team you’re building yourself, my Ttar by the past was a CB one aswell, but i swaped into the build your saw to free a slot on Heatran.

    About the points you raised :
    - Tornadus-T is sure an issue (I even struggle a little for his Thundy brother to scout his moves, like Grass Knot). For Tornadus-T I assume they are choiced most of the time, but he can indeed break into my team easily if it’s not the case or put a good prediction. Jirachi seems appealing, I’m aware it’s the pokemon people call to rescue them from Tornadus-T. However I’m wondering if I can’t find a compromise between a dedicated counter to Tornadus-T and a pokemon that wouldn’t be so deeply hit by Fire moves. SDef Rotom-W would be another viable choice isn’t it?

    - Now let’s say I give him a scarf and pack him with Trick... I’m maybe asking him too much, but he would deal with the Gyarados you talked about. About Dragonite, well he can try to WoW (but these lum berries are everywhere, not even talking about the substitute). The physical versions of Dragonite seems walled by Gliscor, and the special ones by Rotom-W and Gastrodon if I’m right.

    - The Hazards.. I hate these things...And obviously if Heatran is fired off I’m left open to these things from Ferrothorn especially. Imo Celebi can set up on this one (no T-Wave, Leech Seed and he can’t hurt Celebi), so I’m not so worried, I can trade hazard for some SD on a sweeper. But there are alot of Steel like Skarmory (well Rotom-W would come handy right there too giving me possible momentum with Volt-Switch, and obviously Trick annoys the Stall oriented teams overall) who would set up hazards easier with the absence of Heatran. To be honest I’d need to test the changes to back it up.

    - For Taunt, this was really a heartbreaking choice I did since I wanted this Taunt badly. I chosed another atacking move to have a better use of a possible SD. But the Hazards are too menacing, I’ll do this change with the EVs you suggested and try it. Shut down the classical Deoxys-D set-up is too appealing now that you talk about it.

    - I’ll test Fire Blast instead of Pursuit, I wanted him to be a good alternative recipient for Celebi. However it’s better on paper than in practice, I don’t pull off this combination often. And this could be a valuable tradeoff with Heatran’s departure. Same goes for a deeper investment in SDef, I asked him too much once again (being an offtank and offensive threat with SD) and he tended to do nothing well in the end :\
    About the Shed Shell, sure thing I will give it to him ! I loved how after tanking a U-Turn Heatran was attracting Duggy but hell, Ttar is more important since without Sun all these Sun sweepers wont be so devastating. It's even more true if Heatran leaves the team obviously. Anyway, as I said, the Lum Berry is more like a luxury item here.


    I hope I don’t look too cocky not totally following, and debating some of the solutions you brought to me. The fact is that I already tried Jirachi as you may have noticed in the team building process. But I’ll make a team packing all your changes to see how it works. However as you may have guessed I’m a little reluctant to change so fast my Mary Jane and her Baton Passing ability ;)
    Give me your opinion on Rotom-W ability to fix some of my team’s issue. Maybe I was totally wrong suggesting it over your changes, which did all make much sense, but made also my team shift maybe too deeply.

    Thanks!


    EDIT :

    If we add Rotom-W, I'm not that Gene/Dug weak as I was with Heatran so... maybe grab someone else on Gliscor... I don't know, just tossing ideas since all you said turned quite the tables and I'm pondering deeply to fix what you noticed.

    EDIT bis :

    I'm raped too hard by these genius, I decided to put Jirachi instead of Gliscor after some games, I'll use Jirachi also as an unexpected recipient for an SD, maybe Body Slam/ Iron Head/ Wish / Fire Punch.. I have no idea for now, I'm gonna make some tests.
    The funny fact, I already made an ADV team based on SD/BP Celebi, there was a Jirachi in it with BodySlam/Reflect/DoomDesire/Wish and a SDef spread... well well, I guess I can't escape this little fairy :p

    EDIT bis bis :

    Ahm, this Jirachi fits well, and the Rotom-W filled many holes.. maybe too much. So I looked back to it and I thought that in fact Gastrodon wasnt bringing anything useful anymore given the two new Special walls.
    Finally, I found where I could put this scarfed Latios (which is by the way a pokemon that I play alot on many other teams, so this change fits me quite well). Replacing Gastrodon by Latios would fasten my games' proceedings (they were being too slow, it was like playing a stall team's ersatz). And I could change Rotom-W spread/moves for a more dedicated special wall, like HydroP/TBolt/WoW/PainSplit.
    So I got Ttar / Rotom-W / Jirachi / Celebi / Terrakion / Latios by now.
    I'll test it, it seems less funky than before but far more solid for sure.
    Funny to see that I'm just going to adopt 99% of what you said in the end... adding a Rotom-W>Gastrodon in the mix. Well I learned alot anyway !

    EDIT bis bis bis :

    Now I'm thinking about changing Celebi. I have simply, absolutly, nothing to take those U-Turns. Thinking about reinstating Gliscor over Celebi. I was reluctant but your changes seem to be definetly the most viable ones.
  4. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Consider it as a bump, I changed many things after PenguinX's comment. It took me some time to test everything and I came back with the changes (mainly PenguinX's ones).
    So if someone have the patience and the kindness to share his thoughts with me, I would be really grateful !
    Thanks !
  5. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,762
    IF you want speed on your Terrakion, you could always go for the SubSalac set. You lose out on a bit of power, but when you're behind a substitute most of the time, you may not need the extra power life orb provides.

    Additionally, on Rotom you would need 16 SpAtk EVs to OHKO Tornadus-T in the rain after rocks, if you want to handle that better. You also should move 4 hp EVs from Gliscor to Defense. 352 HP is ideal for poison heal and with the extra point in defense you take 1 hp less from certain attacks (the max damage a CB bullet punch from Scizor goes from 89 to 88 with 4 more defense). The more physical attacks you take, the better that 4 def EV investment becomes.

    Good luck!
  6. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Hi Chimpakt !

    These few changes seem to be amazing, I see only benefits !
    I totally forgot about the Sub/Salac set, I'll give it a try for sure as it's a set I wanted to test.

    Thanks ! This is all good for me !
  7. peng

    peng

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Messages:
    474
    Heh, this team is pretty different than when I last checked it! It definitely looks a lot more solid now and there don't seem to be any massive weaknesses that stand out to me. I was a bit surprised to see Rotom-W here since Gastrodon was already an excellent Rain check, but looking at it now I kinda like the change. It gives you another counter to Tornadus-T, but means you aren't weak to Politoed + Dugtrio + Tornadus-T cores who annoy SDef Jirachi a lot. Replacing Gastrodon does make you considerably weaker to Thundurus-T, however, but luckily Jirachi is a decent check unless they run Nasty Plot or are Choice Specs, and Latios / Terrakion can revenge-kill it to.

    Following on from Chimpakt's EV change, you should use an EV spread of 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef on Rotom-W, as this allows you to always OHKO 252 HP Gliscor with Hydro Pump, and as Chimpakt pointed out, OHKO Tornadus-T after Rocks in the rain. You could also test out a Chesto Berry with Rest over Pain Split to give you a better switch-in to defensive Politoed, as this gives it a one-time use recovery move that cures Toxic poison. However, this is really just personal preference.

    Good luck!
  8. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Yes indeed, it shifted :p
    The changes mostly came one by one, that's why some of them seem odd at first glance.
    Giving these 32 SpA seems ok, but I'll stick for now with the Pain Split. And lower the EVs invested in HP instead, so Pain Split would be more interesting.
    The RestoChest set is always a good alternative, as you said it's a matter of personal taste and I'm more used to the Pain Split set. But I'll keep this idea in mind, and if the situations where I think "God, a ChestoRest would be better here" increase, then I'll change it probably.

    Thanks !
  9. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    If I may, I would like to have a "last" advice.
    I'm really thinking about changing my Jirachi for a Wish/CM set as he's not meant to receive SwordDance from my last Celebi anymore. So he doesnt need to be physically based.
    However I'm not sure about the EVs and I found it really hard to use well, so I'm wondering if it's really a good idea.
    Moreover if this change occurs I'd change Rotom-W to a ChestoRest set to make his tanking job easier.

    Could I get some enlightenments on this point?
  10. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Genesect looks problematic, use HP Fire over Surf on Latios to check it better. You're RP Sheer Force Lando weak, so I would use Shuca Berry on Jirachi, and drop Fire Punch for Protect so you can heal yourself. Gene usually U-turn out anyway on Jirachi, or flamethrower (and usually they'll only FT if it KO's). So you're not missing out on anything except hitting Scizor, but you got Rotom-W. GL
  11. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,507
    Thanks for the comment !
    - HP Fire, I can only agree, I did not fix it in the description (my bad sorry for this waste of your time...) but in fact I changed this point after some games myself.
    - About my weakness to RP Landorus, since he can't 2HKO Rotom-W without some prior damage I don't feel like I'm so weak to him. Moreover Latios has a good chance to revenge it with Draco Meteor, like 75% for the 0HKO with no SR damage. But since these Landorus have Life orb, let's say it's a 0HKO. And Latios only takes 75% at worst from HP Ice.
    - About Jirachi, I feel like the set isn't optimised as you noticed, but I was more feeling like I could make it more threatening and not more stallish. I'll try your change anyway.

    Thank you, I appreciated.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)