A glimpse at Crushking: A Wall "Crushing" Nidoking

Discussion in 'Stark Mountain' started by Yagami Light, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    [​IMG]

    Nidoking, a pokemon which after the glory it had in G/S/C with OU tier status, finds itself relegated to UU. It dislikes this tier, finding the inhabitants too weak for its liking. It has once again set its eyes on competing in OU, this time not as a sweeper, however. DP's Nidoking is a different breed, a Nidoking focused on killing practically all the OU walls in one to two hits with SR up. Let's take a look:

    Nidoking@Life Orb
    252 Atk/174 Sp. Atk/84 Speed with a Lonely/Naughty Nature

    Fire Blast
    Ice Beam/Blizzard if used on a hail team
    Megahorn
    Earthquake

    This speed allows it to outspeed no Speed Cresselia, who otherwise may threaten to annoy Nidoking with Ice Beam as well as no speed Gliscor, who threatens EQ. You also outspeed Adamant Tyranitar with max speed EVs, as well as any neutral base 60 or less poke. The maxed attack stat and near max Sp. Atk are for swift kills on the walls.

    Poison point is the trait of choice, because Nidoking is always male and Cresselia and Blissey are always female and Rivalry lowers attack versus the opposite gender.

    Now, you may be asking "Why Nidoking?" "Why not Ape or BOAH?" The answer is that Nidoking is immune to two very common statuses, has a great immunity, and gets a nice range of resists. In addition to that, it can also suck up Toxic Spikes.

    Now then, I'm not expecting you to join the Nido side quite yet, not without calculations, that is. For all these pokemon, I shall be using the first set of the Smogon analysis. All calcs are done using Metalkid.

    Nidoking versus Blissey(148 HP/252 Def Bold) with EQ:
    48.84% - 57.56% SR not needed in majority of cases.

    Nidoking versus Skarmory (252 HP/0 Sp. Def Impish) with fire blast:
    95.81% - 112.57% OHKO always with SR, OHKO in most cases without it.

    Nidoking versus Cresselia ( 20 HP / 252 Def Modest) with Megahorn:
    54.15% - 63.73% 2HKO with or without SR including LEfties.

    Nidoking versus Gliscor 252 HP/252 Def Impish with Ice Beam:
    135.88% - 159.89% Overkill.

    Nidoking versus Weezing 252 HP/252 Def Bold with Fire Blast
    47.90% - 56.29% SR not needed in majority of cases.

    Nidoking versus Dusknoir 252 HP / 76 Def Careful with EQ:
    46.60% - 54.76% SR kills this off.

    Nidoking versus Bronzong with 252 HP/96 Sp. Def Relaxed with Fire Blast:
    57.40% - 67.75% SR not needed. (If you do way less than this, feel free to EQ for the OHKO)

    Nidoking versus Milotic 148 DP/228 Def Bold with EQ:
    43.48% - 51.09% 2hko with SR in vast majority of cases.

    Nidoking versus Tangrowth 252 HP/+ Def with Fire Blast:
    101.98% - 120.05%

    Hippowdon and Donphan are both 2HKOed by Ice Beam. Forretress is always OHKOed by Fire Blast.


    As we see, all the common OU walls are destroyed. There is just one who is not killed in one-two shots by Crushking, and that's Swampert. However, Swampert cannot come in repeatedly. Now, for your pleasure, a list of attacks versus Nidoking (I'll regularly be updating this list, so there won't be much right now):

    Cresselia Modest 232 EV Ice Beam: 65.68% - 77.23% , No EVs is 45.87% - 54.13% (If it's sleeping and it Ice Beams you, you won't die)

    Heracross with 252 Attack EVs Adamant Choice Band Close Combat: 64.69% - 75.91% (You don't counter it, but you can stop the sweep)

    Lucario Adamant with 1 SD 252 Attack Close Combat: 78.55% - 92.41% (Same as above)
    Celebi with HP Ice 0 Sp. Atk: 42.90% - 50.50% Eh, this turns into a one for one deal then, you survive almost all the time, but Life Orb recoil will probably kill you along with Celebi. You can always come in on Leech seed and Thunder Wave, however.



    I recommend pairing Nidoking up with a Grass type and/or a Wishpasser to get maximum mileage. Unlike Infernape, Nidoking doesn't get hurt badly by Sandstorm, so you can expect to live for a bit even with Life Orb. After you kill the common walls, you can get some more use out of it by killing some sweepers, like Scizor and Lucario.

    So that's that, Nidoking is a viable wallbreaker for the OU environment, and I hope you consider it. Be sure to tell me of any errors and I'll fix them up as soon as possible.

    -Light
  2. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    A good set indeed. I found Nidoking hard to deal with because it hits everything super effective. However, I don't believe rivalry decreases attack if different gender. I think it just acts as a free boost when it's the same gender. Can anyone shed some light on this? If so, use rivalry.
  3. Stefywefy215

    Stefywefy215

    Joined:
    May 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,959
    no, you do get a decrease in power if the opponent is of a different gender
  4. NatKing

    NatKing

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,347
    Nope, it definetly halves attack against opposite nature.

    Looks like a great set. =]
  5. forbidden

    forbidden

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    5,290
    Nidoking won't be able to deal with most bulky waters. The Calculations on Milotic is the absolute minimal someone would use. A lot of people use the standard ADV spread of 212 hp/248 def. However I do agree that its seems to be very useful vs all the other common walls.
  6. RaikouLover

    RaikouLover

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2006
    Messages:
    2,430
    Hmmm, I don't remember it doing that in the actual cartridges. It just said "raises attack if same gender"
  7. Brawley

    Brawley
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,543
    I like this set a lot and I greatly prefer sub. for the last move, because most opponents will just switch around (ex: celebi----> Garchomp)
  8. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    Yeah, just in case they are running much higher defensive spreads you may wish to consider a Grass type.


    And yes, Rivalry indeed reduces attack versus Blissey and Cressy, something you'd want to avoid doing.

    EDIT: And as for the sub idea, it can work, but you're giving up too much coverage to make it look really dangerous.
  9. IggyBot

    IggyBot !battle
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2008
    Messages:
    948
    I've been using this since you told me about it on Shoddy. It works very well, though I'm not sure whether I like this, or my SubPunch / Sucker Punch set more, both are very fun to use and are very effective.
  10. Swimrunner

    Swimrunner

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    868
    Agreed. Milotic, Suicune, and Swampert all don't have major problems with this. It's not a bad set, but at the same time from a functionality standpoint it's not going to do a whole ton since Nidoking will have difficulty getting in more than once and lacks the speed to not get revenge killed.
  11. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    You are quite correct, Crushking 3HKOs Swampert and Suicune (Of course, with full layers of spikes, it's a 2HKO but let's just assume you can only get SR down). But a Celebi and such fixes this relatively easily, Grass Knotting or Seeding those pokemon. And while you can't keep coming on on Tbolt since the surprise factor is lost you can still use its good resistances to come in on other team weaks. Plus it's decently sturdy, so it won't die from neutral moves.
  12. Cooper

    Cooper
    is a CAP Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2006
    Messages:
    2,806
    Can we get some calcs for what you believe will be the most common Nidoking switch-ins? I mean for things that will try to kill it. For example, Dusknoir switches in a takes less than 50%. How much will it do using Earthquake? Or a Cresselia's Ice Beam or Grass Knot. That sort of thing.

    Also, why does Light Yagami have a picture of Byakuya Kuchiki as his avatar? Please fix this, as it troubles me greatly. Look to user Kira for inspiration.
  13. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    Sure, I'll work on those calcs in just a sec and I'll have them up after I return from a brief visit to the store. And as for the avatar, I had a Light plushie for the last month or so, then I swapped to Byakuya as a change of pace. Rest assured that I'll be returning to Light.

    EDIT: Avatar replaced.
  14. blastoiselover100

    blastoiselover100

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    888
    It looks pretty good on paper, but can it really pull it off? Most of those walls carry a SE move that can deal with it.
  15. zxn666

    zxn666

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2007
    Messages:
    143
    Very interesting, I think it's worth considering Nidoking for the sole reason that it's immune to toxic, thunder wave, and can suck up toxic spikes. It can break walls fairly well judging from the damage calcs. however, bulky waters seem to be a problem, since I personally run a 252hp/252def Milotic, and EQ will only do like 30%, while Milotic hits for 50-60% with a STAB surf. Perhaps you should consider Thunderbolt on that set to help deal with water types. Swampert makes any Nidoking cry though.
  16. Diesel

    Diesel

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,945
    How would Mild work in comparison?? Specifically this one :naughty: :

    Nidoking - Rivalry
    Mild: 31/31/25/29/31/31

    Rivalry can hurt though, especially vs. Blissey of course.
  17. Kingdrom

    Kingdrom

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    381
    Nice set. It actually looks like it could fill a niche in OU. The only thing I think is worth of mention is to raise the speed up to 244 to outspeed max speed DDtar, Magnezone, and other base 60's with a +nature. You already have enough power to OHKO Garchomp and Tyranitar with Ice Beam, Bronzong still fears Fire Blast, but really Stealth Rock should be up when if you do this.

    I would be wary of using Nidoking on Cresselia; many people go for much more defense than 20/252 with a neutral nature. Max defense Cresselia would probably not be a 2HKO. Could you do some calculations on that, as well as whether it is safe for Nidoking to stay in on Sleep Talk Cresselia ice beam.
  18. Automatic

    Automatic

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    348
    idg why Rivalry lowers the attack of the user if it's not the same sex...

    I always understood it to be like an added bonus that can't hurt you...like most every other ability.

    is this just shoddy or the same way on actual d/p?
  19. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    Yes, it can withstand a few hits without going down.

    And it is entirely plausible to add more speed, you'll be outspeeding Adamant Breloom as well then.

    And Diesel, that Nidoking probably won't work, as you really need to kill Cress and Bliss.

    And Rivalry does work like that in game too.
  20. CaptKirby

    CaptKirby

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,041
    This is a stellar explanation, and I will definitely try this out with Celebi supporting it :)
  21. jujuomi

    jujuomi

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    Messages:
    1,698
    OMG! meistif maker. Or what ever it was called. I still have that game for the N64. meischeif maker? GAH!

    Anyway, great set though it does seem to work bad with bulky waters. Try some calcs with t-bolt vs. milotic/suicune
  22. Yagami Light

    Yagami Light

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2007
    Messages:
    374
    I'm looking at the calcs of Tbolt, but they aren't too impressive to consider over any of the other moves. I'll post them in a bit I guess.
  23. the pugilist

    the pugilist
    is a Past WCoP Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2007
    Messages:
    897
    Good job with the set. However, as I said in the pms, I think the Celebi and Nidoking partnership has troubles with weavile (Ice Punchs King and Pursuit gives Celebi a headache). The results should be very interesting.

    No hera weak BTW.
  24. Phizzlax

    Phizzlax

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    577
    Did your calcs include Leftovers recovery?
    Just something I noticed.
    Your chance of two shotting Weezing, Dusknoir, Milotic, and Blissey is reduced a fair amount from leftovers recovery (some of them having potential to cripple or kill you as a result of it). I did notice that your Cresselia calculations included lefties, but also used a spread that I don't think is particularly common. Kingdrom already pointed that out though. I like the idea, and seeing Nidoking usage increase would be sweet.
  25. X-Act

    X-Act np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Programmer Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,675
    The effect of Rivalry is: Increases damage by 25% if against your same gender, decreases damage by 25% if against the opposite gender, no effect against Pokemon with no gender. So it doesn't reduce damage by half.

    Nidoking would be cool, if only it could switch in a bit more easily. :(

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)