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A Life After Landorus - BW2 OU RMT

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Oopa, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    A Life After Landorus – BW2 RMT

    Hi, this is my second RMT, a team made in conjunction with the Smogon community, and a lesser known associate called Addarash (tignadarash). The team which this is based off can be found here.
    This team comes about as a result of the Landorus-I, and may be affected by the Keldeo suspect test. As it happens, the previous team that my associate and I had worked on used RP Landorus-I, and with its banning a team change was in order. The original team consisted of Support Tyranitar, Offensive LO Latias, RP Landorus, Scarf Terrakion, Specially Defensive Rotom-W, and Choice Band Scizor. It was decided Garchomp would replace Landorus due to similar typing, and the Stealth Rock set was chosen due to its efficiency at setting up rocks and its great utility. Garchomp could also deal with Ferrothorn and Skarmory who Landorus used to take care of. This freed Tyranitar of the mundane task of setting up rocks (my associate and I jokingly commented on Tyranitar’s roles as being: get sandstorm up, set up rocks, kill psychic/ghost type, take status, die). Tyranitar could now use Choice Band to show of his Macho and break walls like a boss. This left the team with less special attackers, and so Terrakion was given an honourable discharge so PONY could come in and surf away at Landorus-T, Gliscor, and other threats which were previously dealt with by Landorus. Keldeo might get banned in the next suspect test so this will be kept in mind. Here’s the team:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 32 SAtk / 228 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Grass]


    Rotom plays an important role in dealing with special threats, and acting as a mixed wall with Will-O-Wisp. The Evs allow Rotom-W to nail Gliscor among other Pokemon with Hydro Pump while retaining considerable special bulk. Rotom also helps against rain teams, hitting hard with Volt Switch and scouting, while Will-O-Wisp can troll Gliscor and Ferrothorn on the switch-in. Hidden Power Grass 2HKOs Gastrodon after rocks, who would otherwise annoy the animated Washing Machine. Rotom helps this team, in that it and Latias pair up to sponge resisted water attacks for the team and weaken the opposing Pokemon, while keeping momentum in its own right with Volt Switch.

    [​IMG]
    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 88 HP / 108 SAtk / 244 Spd / 68 SDef
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock


    Latias serves to check musketeers and their fighting type cronies with Psyshock, and also helps in dealing with Rain and Sun teams alike with its offensive moves. Draco Meteor nets quick kills, while Psyshock is a great STAB should the special attack drop be undesirable. Psyshock also KOs most Tentacruel, and can 2HKO Jellicent switch in which is great. The switch from Surf to HP fire was prompted by SD Scizors’ previously ample opportunities to set up, thought it leaves Latias open to being outsped by base 110’s. Roost tricks people into thinking she has lost Levitate. The defensive investment helps Latias better check threats like Terrakion and Venusaur, sacrificing herself to stop +2 Venusaur sweeps for example, while the special attack EVs allow for guaranteed KO on most variants of Venusaur, and allows for execution of the popular musketeers after Rocks. (Make that guaranteed after two Rocky entries)

    [​IMG]
    Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast


    Garchomp is the new Stealth Rock dude, and is often used as a lead due to the switching he causes with his dual stabs, thus letting Stealth Rock be set up more easily, especially against Sun. Life Orb provides good power and is preferred for Garchomp to wreak havoc later on in the game. Rough Skin helps in killing potential rapid spinners. Jokes about Rough Skin aside, it helps in lead match ups with Terrakion or against opposing Pokemon on low HP. Earthquake is a nice stab used in early and midgame if Garchomp is to be kept alive, while Outrage is used for cleaning, or for maiming/ killing at the cost of staying alive. Fire Blast roasts Forretress, Skarmory and Ferrothorn. Swords Dance is possible over Fire Blast for a late game sweep, but Fire Blast has proved itself over and over again. Garchomp can be said to be better or worse in filling the shoes of Landorus as he does not resist fighting and only adds another Dragon weakness, putting a bit more work onto Scizor to take Outrages. However, it is his ability to cause switches and utility against sun that allows him to fulfil a similar role to what Landorus did.

    [​IMG]
    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    Tyranitar finally gets to flex his muscles and kick arse, rather than sitting and loafing around while the rest of the team won (or lost) the battle. Stone Edge works like last generation, 2HKOing Skarmory and others, while Crunch provides a reliable STAB. Pursuit checkmates Jellicent, Lati@s, Celebi, and other Pokemon which Tyranitar has a fetish for pinching ass. Tyranitar can come in on the afore mentioned Pokemon after a U-turn or Volt Switch, and elimate them, this helping Keldeo achieve one of his only roles in the team. Superpower nails Terrakion on the switch and provides complimentary coverage. EVs allow the big lizard to outspeed most variants of Skarmory while ensuring he hits hard and retains nice bulk.

    [​IMG]
    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 6 SDef / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Icy Wind
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Secret Sword


    Pretty easy to see what Keldeo does. The pony cleans and takes revenge. While Terrakion could hit hard early game, and prove his worth later, Keldeo is restricted to being a benchwarmer due to the multitude of Pokemon resisting his dual STABs like Celebi, Jellicent and Lati@s, all of whom Tyranitar dispatches with ease. Hydro Pump is just here if the extra power is needed, while Surf is a reliable STAB which deals respectable damage. Here Hydro Pump is chosen as the water STAB due to the extra power it brings. Secret Sword helps with Blissey and allows Keldeo to be a pseudo-mixed cleaner like Latias. Icy Wind is directed at dragon types and the other Pokemon which can take on Keldeo’s mighty onslaught, and is used here simply to allow Hidden Power to take the Electric type to take down Gyarados when Rotom-W is out of commission. Keldeo occupies what was once Terrakion's place, and still deals with +1 Volcarona, albeit less reliably if you take into account Quiver Dance's Special Defence boosts, but more reliably when you look at not having to rely on Stone Edge. Keldeo sill fulfills a role, in attacking opposing sand teams with his STABs, and cleaning up the carnage he left.

    [​IMG]
    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    Scizor is a tried and tested Pokemon who has proved his worth in many a battle. He cleans, revenge kills, scouts. Bullet Punch hits hard, and is a nice attack for dragons locked into Outrage, Tyranitar, Terrakion and cleaning in general. U-turn scouts and hits for massive damage while maintained momentum, while Pursuit makes him bros with Tyranitar. Superpower is for other Scizors and just when Scizor feels like auditioning for the next X-Men movie. Scizor helps take on powerful dragon attacks meant for the two dragons in this team, and acts as a powerful hitter with U-turn, while still keeping momentum by letting the more appropriate Pokemon to take the stage. The speed EVs are here to outspeed other CB Scizors, and U-turn out first, or Bullet Punch first in a critical scenario, and the HP EVs mean less stealth rock damage. Oh, and I matched up the avatar to the gender.


    Conclusion – Thanks for reading my blocks of text and (hopefully) rating and giving tips. This team unfortunately has a lack of setup sweepers, is weak to defensive boosters (curse you Gastrodon and Sigilyph), but who uses them so meh. If you have seen this team, it was probably piloted by Tignadarassh or one of the many corruptions of the username.

    As a side note, Funkasaurus' rate has encouraged a SubCM Latias win con which works well when Garchomp and Keldeo swap roles, and Rotom dons an Expert Belt. Only time will tell which is superior ^_^

    Importable-celebrate the return of hide tags! (open)


    This is still unupdated so all those teamstealers like Fredson won't have such an easy time :p

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Pain Split


    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock


    Garchomp (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Rough Skin
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Outrage
    - Fire Blast


    Tyranitar (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 168 HP / 252 Atk / 88 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower


    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Surf
    - Hydro Pump
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Secret Sword


    Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - U-turn
    - Bullet Punch
    - Pursuit
    - Superpower

    Last edited: Aug 10, 2013
  2. Shrug

    Shrug

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    This is quite the nice team. I have a few changes I would make, that will hopefully make this team even better. First:
    Garchomp is such a stud that Life Orb isn't really needed or preferred. You use it as a lead, so it's taking damage right away, and the Life Orb makes it die even quicker. Thats why I suggest a Rocky Helmet over your Life Orb. It sounds dumb but it donks mons who use weak lead attacks and that rapid spinner who tries to spin while you're still in play. In addition, it makes prio users like Scizor, especially with Life Orb, hurt, as they take a whole lot of damage every turn.
    Scizor is quite good in it's current role, but it could be better. You need two things: 1) a set up sweeper, 2) a better way of opening holes for Keldeo (Ttar is good, but how's he beating Tentacruel?). Thats why i'll recommend to you Swords Dance Acrobatics Scizor, which i seem to do a lot. The set is: Max Attack / Max Speed | Jolly; Swords Dance | Bullet Punch | Superpower | Acrobatics; with a Flying Gem. It fets rid of the things that stop Keldeo (Jellicent, Tentacruel, etc.) while sweeping, which you indicated you wanted. Good luck!
    Oopa likes this.
  3. Instynct

    Instynct

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    Hey, nice team you have here =) but...
    I feel like you are very weak to stall as you have a few life orb sweepers but I feel these can be easily played around. Granted stall isn't really that common or good in this meta, but I still see it enough to warrant a contingency plan against it. I would suggest switching Tyranitar to a bulky sp. defensive variant with stealth rock. I don't think you need both banded tyranitar and banded scizor. You seem to be eliminating pokemon such as celebi or jellicent with only a scarf keldeo sweep in mind which I think i shard to pull off. I would therefore make the above change and also change Garchomp to an SD version (something like sub salac or SD+3 attacks and yache could work). Given that you now have a pretty powerful sweeper, I would put Fire Blast on your tyranitar. Hopefully you can nail that skarmory switch in to the point that it can no longer wall Garchomp.
    Oopa likes this.
  4. Funkasaurus

    Funkasaurus E P I C M E M E R
    is a Tutoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnus

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    Hey there,

    Nice team. From what I see, sun teams can be quite problematic for this team. Venusaur has the ability to sweep you if it manages to get +2 (setting up on Tyranitar Superpower, Rotom, Scizor locked into Superpower or Pursuit, or Keldeo) so it'd be important to have a good check for that. To help with that, I think you should use a Sub Calm Mind Latias as opposed to your current Life Orb set. Latias is a very bulky Pokemon and with Calm Mind it becomes quite a sweeper. Latias can set up Calm Minds rather easily in the current metagame, especially vs sun and rain teams. With this set, you gain an even stronger check to those weathers and you gain a possible late game sweeper as well. Another worrisome threat on a sun team is Volcarona. Like Venusaur, it can find a way to set up quite easily vs this team especially when something is choice locked into something that allows it to do so. To help with this, I think you should run Choice Scarf on Garchomp (with Outrage, Earthquake, Stealth Rock, Fire Blast | Dragon Claw | Stone Edge) and Expert Belt on Keldeo (with Surf, Secret Sword, Hidden Power Bug, Icy Wind). With this change, the roles of Garchomp and Keldeo are reversed with Garchomp being able to revenge Volcarona when the sun is up, to an extent. In my opinion, Expert Belt Keldeo is one of its better sets. Not to say Scarf is bad, but with an Expert Belt attached, it can do a lot of damage to teams that aren't prepared for it. Expert Belt boosts the power of Keldeo's attacks (super effective, that is) and doesn't need to take any extra Life Orb recoil while bluffing a Choice item.

    On a side note, I can see Terrakion to be quite an issue for this team. While knocking it out isn't an issue, switching into it seems like a challenge. With Latias as your only Fighting type resist, your checks are rather sparse. If you think it's too much for your team to handle, you can run Hippowdon over Tyranitar. Hippowdon can typically switch into any non-Choice Band boosted Close Combat, which before you would be unable to, and easily Slack Off the damage. Although you would lose a powerhouse trapper in Tyranitar, you still have Scizor to trap things like Celebi and Lati@s. Plus, Hippowdon can set up Stealth Rock, which can take the load off Garchomp, which can be locked into it.

    Otherwise, good team and good luck!
    Oopa likes this.
  5. KabaticStorm

    KabaticStorm

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2013
    Messages:
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    Hey there DrShellgon! Cool team, but before I rate you need an Importable. I'll rate it when that's done. Cheers!
  6. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131
    Thanks for taking the time to rate guys :)

    Thanks, however Chomp is currently donning the Scarf, so the Rocky Helmet suggestion has not been tested as of late. At the moment, Keldeo, Jellicent and Tentacruel etc have not been of as much as a problem, so the Acrobatics Scizor set has not been added to the team yet



    Thanks for the rate, but I had previously used MixTar, when Landorus-I was unbanned and didn't particularly like it as he wasn't powerful enough to hit hard, and only really set up rocks, kill oppopsing psychic and ghost types and set up weather. keeping that in mind, i have not tested these changes yet.

    Thanks, at the moment the team is trying out the suggestion of SubCM Latias, Scarf SR CHomp and Ebelt Keldeo, and it is working out quite nicely, as Latias finds many opportunites to set up, and Chomp usually forces a switch and sets up rocks, then switches out which feigns a life orb SR set most times.
    Terrakion could be a bit of a problem, but it has not arisen as of yet.




    And i have the importable now ... but there are no hide tags T_T
  7. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,301
    Hey! Got the request!

    I have to say, sun does look like it'd be a pain to go up against. Also, I'd say those sand teams with Amo / Jelli have got to be a pain too (especially when paired with Hippo). Rain Keldeo looks problematic especially since your Latias is really not that bulky with only 4 evs invested into HP as it won't be taking too many attacks, and EB Kelde can smash the majority of your team as well.Breloom because it can just wreck holes into the team while Latias is forbidden to switch into a Spore since it is the only thing that can wall it and with minimal hp investment those Focus Punches will hurt. SD Toxicroak can shrug off and destroy everything you run. SD Gatr can defeat most of your team as well.

    Now, for the fixes:

    1. Your Latias set is not efficient enough to do what it's supposed to do -- check Keldeo and sun. Instead, you need to take 112 evs out of SpA and put them in Hp. The additional bulk allows you to easily pumble sun, especially when partnered with Scizor. The extra HP allows you to always OHKO Venusaur and always live +2 Sludge Bomb, making it the perfect switch in. Combined with Garchomp and Scizor sun is no longer the threat it once posed.

    2. Garchomp should really forgo Fire Blast for Swords Dance. FB is really weak on the Pokemon you are trying to hit (especially in rain). Ferrothorn is beat from +2 EQ, and fucking Rotom-W murders Skarmory so you don't even need it. Latias can lure Scizor just fine so you don't need to worry about hitting him (remember: +2 EQ is killing Zor too). Swords Dance helps against stall -- like those Jellicent / Ammongus teams I've been talking about (or FerroCent; that's common too).

    3. These last changes are minor. Take 8 evs out of speed and into SDef on Scizor. Give Rotom-W 24 Spe evs and take them from SpA and then make Wash's HP value to 252 Hp. On Rotom-W, you want to outpace standard Feraligatr. Scizor wants to lose the speed tie so he can get U-turn momentum. As for the HP shift; 252 Hp gives you an even number of health which gives you more leftovers recovery.

    Take Keldeo's Hp evs and put them into SDef for those download users and do the same for Garchomp.

    Now let me comment on other rates:

    1. Shrug's Acrboatics Scizor: I was actually going to second this, but then I realized that Scizor is the only Pokemon who can tank Outrages, so I felt he needed the bulk and left it as a CB Scizor. Hopefully, the SD switch on Chomp will allow him to break through Tentacruels and rain / sand stall better.

    2. Calm Mind Latias: With Scizor running around he really needs the Hidden Power Fire lure (unless CM with HP Fire? Not sure how'd that work since the lack of sub is huge). The shift in HP evs allow it to always defeat Venusaur assuming it switches into a Growth with 75% hp or more. The slow momentum is also not appreciated.

    3. Scarf Chomp // EB Keldeo: I would actually like this if Garchomp wasn't locked into Stealth Rock. I feel like the team is supporting a Scarf Keldeo sweep between Scizor + Tyranitar and I don't want to ruin that. Volca is midly checked by this team since it's hard pressed to set up on anything since everything has a high damage output on it and if it takes rocks its really hindered. Also, there is that thing where max timid +1 Volcarona speed ties with jolly Scarf Garchomp and that would really suck.

    4. Hippo over TTar: The hp shift in Latias can more than handle Terrakion and both Scarf Keldeo and CB Scizor can revenge him.


    People can feel free to comment on my rate. By no means am I trying to bash anyone. The above (including my rate) is all opinionated on me and I can easily be flawed. These are my thoughts on the suggestions in correspondence with my rate, so it's understandable that some of my changes would make others minute, just like some of your changes would make mine redundant. (This is really for the HP shift in Latias, as before it couldn't really do what it was supposed to do).

    As a side note: Garchomp really doesn't want LO but I'm not sure what to use in place of it. Rocky Helmet is a good choice, but then again so would Lum Berry so it could set up on Rotom-W. Your choice! :3

    Good Luck.
    Oopa likes this.
  8. Oopa

    Oopa

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    131

    Thanks for the extensive rate!

    there are some things thought. sun teams have not been as much of a problem as of yet, but that may be due to the quality of teams faced. the reasoning behind the ev change for latias looks well founded and will be tested out, when using the life orb set as it still gets the ko on musketeers after rocks, as well as taking out venusaur using psyshock. thanks for giving reasoning to use SD>Fire blast to help convince the associate. we'll play around with the item choice on chomp when using the standard lead chomp. i actually prefer faster scizor though, but that's my preference as they can uturn out quicker, and win matchups against other CB scizor when you really need to go first. also, the reason why rotom has 248 hp evs rather than 252, is to lessen sr damage, and it doesn't matter if hp is divisible by 16 or not as (hopefully) sandstorm will be active and leftovers is just cancelling the effect. but i see the reasoning as rotom stays in a bit more than he switches in for sr. also, i never see gatr around so.... unless we battle you :p
    also, download users are not really seen, but it won't hurt to try on non hp ice keldeo as hp ice keldeo has a higher spdef stat due to 31/30/30/31/31/31. and garchomp also has naturally lower spdef, so the hp evs can stay where they are.
    it all really depends at the moment whether the subcm/scarfchomp/ebeltkeldeo route (which my associate prefers) or the standard which is what it is at the moment (which i prefer) is better. only testing will tell and only then will the OP get changed

    and also garchomp is 102, so doesn't speed tie with +1 volc (100)
    and i see your luv of gatr in your rate XD
  9. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Oh yeah Garchomp hits 102 how could I forget O_O.

    I use Gatr a lot so I guess that reflects. :p

    Personally, Keldeo is the best scarfer in the game and I'd use that due to how sheer mindless it is to use it, but Scarf Chomp is a decent option too. Everything hits Rona hard so I don't think you'll have any issues so I can't really see a reason for the role reversal if Keldeo isn't luring Celebi or Toxicroak or Jellicent, etc. etc. (Being able to switch attacks on Garchomp makes beating Jirachi's easier too).

    Yeah I agree with you on Rotom-W's evs since I forgot sand was buffing leftovers recovery (my bad!) and as for Garchomp I think the 4 Hp evs give it an even number of health which increases SR slightly so it's eh. The 4 evs won't matter either way tbh XD!

    Feraligatr is a threat (uncommon, but threatening) and 24 evs into speed isn't really that much as Wash is still hitting hard. But yeah if you don't mind being a little prone to it for the additional power than go right ahead :p.

    Good luck during testing! And who's your associate? :)
    Oopa likes this.
  10. Oopa

    Oopa

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    Thanks!

    Um yeah the 4 HP evs in chomp don't matter as neither 357 nor 358 hp is divisible by 16, so its meh. Rotom's evs can still be subject to change so only testing will tell whether alligators are a menace. And my associate is a guy called tignadarash or sumthin or adarash as mentioned in the rmt, who is way better at battling than me (tbh i suck XD, so he's the guy who battles the most with this team, as i don't get as much of a chance :/ for some reasons out of my control). he's got a lot of showdown alts for his laddering attempts.
  11. Superpowerdude

    Superpowerdude more dogebird
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Mentor

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    1000th post n_n

    Ok so you have already got some good suggestions so I won't say much but you might want to try an Expert Belt Rotom-W. this set scarifices a bit of defense for offense which is good since Tyranitar and Scizor can trap Latias and Latios and between Latias, Rotom and Keldeo you have reain covered decently enough that you don't have to invest so much in Sp Def. With Expert Belt you can bluff a choice item. You could run either hp fire or hp ice. Hp Fire is cool because it lets you lure in and beat Ferrothorn who can be annoying at times since your team doesn't have a rapid spinner and it can set up hazards on Rotom-W otherwise, Scizor locked into Bullet Punch / Pursuit, Keldeo locked into Hpump and if you decide to go with Funkasauruses Suggestion of Sub Cm Latias (which I definitelt recommend) Ferrothorn can set up on that too. Its not really a big change, but you might find it useful.
    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Expert Belt | Levitate
    Modest |252 HP / 252 Spa / 4 Sp Def
    Hydro Pump | Volt Switch | Will-o-Wisp | Hidden Power [Fire]

    Keep in mind that I havn't played OU for a while so you might want to change the ev spread to live certain special attacks I just chose that ev spread to maximise damage output and bulk.

    ~SPD
    Goddess Briyella and Oopa like this.
  12. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella Felicette is the cutest
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    Hi DrShellgon!

    This is a pretty cool Sand team you have here, and I have a few suggestions that I think will help your team perform better. Firstly I would like to stress that a Sun team with Growth Venusaur can present a huge issue for the entire team. Also, Gastrodon and Gyarados can be a problem. A huge thing about this team that stuck out to me is the use of three Choice items. A heavy reliance on such items for added power and speed can very well be beneficial, but this also can give the opponent many free turns while you're locked into an undesirable move.



    [​IMG]

    First of all, I notice you're running the offensive Latias set, but to eliminate the huge threat of Venusaur, who can fairly easily take out Tyranitar and find a time to use Growth (taking advantage of one of your Choiced mons being locked into an ineffective move), I'd like to suggest a change to Latias's EV spread so that it is guaranteed to survive Sludge Bomb from +2 Venusaur in Sun after Stealth Rock damage. The lack in power is notable but you still pose a notable offensive threat, and with this new spread you are guaranteed to beat out Venusaur, if you switch in on Growth or come in after sacrificing something. Stealth Rock as part of the calculation is especially important since you are not running a spinner. The new set I have in mind is as follows, and will guarantee that you survive a +2 Sludge Bomb from Venusaur after SR to be able to kill it off:

    Latias @ Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 88 HP / 96 SAtk / 68 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Roost
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Psyshock



    [​IMG]

    Your team is troubled by Gastrodon, and Rotom-W can only hope to Burn it with Will-o-Wisp to be able to have any hope of wearing it down. Gastrodon is made an even more significant threat due to the fact that it can function comfortably in Rain as well as Sand, and does not take residual damage from Sandstorm. Serving as a Volt Switch pivot who makes Ground types think twice about coming in to block it due to the threat of Hydro Pump, Rotom-W has an amazing role, but it needs to be able to function reliably when faced by something that is immune to both of its current attacks. For this reason and for the overall benefit of the entire team, I'd like to suggest replacing Pain Split with HP Grass to eliminate this problem. The new set I have in mind is as follows:

    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 248 HP / 28 SAtk / 232 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Volt Switch
    - Will-O-Wisp
    - Hidden Power [Grass]



    [​IMG]

    Your team has many things that are weak to Gyarados, and this is very significant since Gyarados is heralded as an answer to many OU threats, including Scizor and Volcarona, making it a popular OU choice, and therefore it is likely you will be facing it. I strongly believe that Keldeo's biggest problem in the meta is deciding which Hidden Power to run, and in this case, according to this team's needs, the choice seems clear. The fact that Keldeo doesn't get Ice Beam does limit its offensive capabilities to an extent, but I'd like to note that it does get Icy Wind, and while not being quite as strong as HP Ice, it allows for much more coverage when Icy Wind is run alongside a Hidden Power type that fits its team's needs. Also, I would like to acknowledge that you are running two STAB Water attacks. I know there are times when you can secure that KO with Surf without risking the Hydro Pump miss, and there are times when Hydro Pump is needed as a more offensive option to KO something that Surf cannot. But, after Rotom-W is down, Gyarados wrecks the team handily. For these reasons, I'm going to suggest replacing Surf and HP Ice with Icy Wind and HP Electric to help keep Gyarados at bay while still maintaining an Ice type coverage move. The set I have in mind is as follows:

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]
    - Secret Sword


    Overall I think the team is awesome. Just keep in mind that running three Choice items requires good prediction more often than not, and it can be really detrimental, should you lock yourself into the wrong move and give your opponent that free turn to get something going. With that said, I hope you find my input helpful or at least thought-provoking! I wish you luck with your team! ^_^
    XenoBlade911 and Oopa like this.
  13. Oopa

    Oopa

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    Thanks for the rate! I'm still a bit skeptical as to how a slowish mon like Rotom can bluff a Scarf, but obviously i have my head stuck in the clouds, as usually Rotom forces switches so the opponent will be unable to notice the speed comparison. This will definitely be used when Latias decides to calm her mind, rather than hitting and running ^_^



    Thank you very much for the kind words and the rate ^_^
    I have a question though, even if Latias is 112HP/0SDef as Shurtugal advised, or 88HP/68SDef as you advised, won't Latias still die after Life Orb and Rocks? If that is so, at least Latias stopped a sweep :). Thanks for addressing specific threats that this team may not have specifically answered when using sets straight off the Smogon site, so these will definitely be tried out (and probably added) to the (LO Latias) team.
  14. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella Felicette is the cutest
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    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 253-300 (76.89 - 91.18%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 88 HP / 68 SpD Latias: 239-282 (73.99 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    With 112 HP / 0 SDef, there is a 25% chance that +2 Sludge Bomb will OHKO you after SR damage. Also, yes, you will still die after subsequently killing off Venusaur because there is Life Orb Recoil and also the potential that Sludge Bomb will inflict Poison status. But then the threat is gone. You wouldn't have enough health left at that point to be able to switch back in to Stealth Rock later anyway without fainting.
  15. Oopa

    Oopa

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    Thank you for clarifying :) i was consulting honkalculator too, but was not sure if the EVs were meant to let latias survive or not :/
    Is the given spread such that it minimises the EVs needed to be invested in order to survive the Sludge, and hence enable more EVs to be placed into SPecial attack?

    edit cos used thread instead of spread -_-
  16. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella Felicette is the cutest
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    The amount of EVs taken out of Special Attack to have the appropriate bulk to ensure that you survive a +2 Sludge Bomb from Venusaur after SR in my suggested spread is 156 (88/68). If these 156 EVs were put all into HP, there is still a 6.25% chance that this attack will OHKO you, meaning more would have to be added to HP if you were opting to only move the EVs to that stat. The spread I provided will guarantee that you survive the attack, and it is the minimal amount of EVs required to have this security. Sorry if there was any confusion. ^_^

    SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 156 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 253-300 (74.41 - 88.23%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 88 HP / 68 SpD Latias: 239-282 (73.99 - 87.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    Same amount of EVs taken out of Special Attack; different results.
    Oopa likes this.
  17. Shurtugal

    Shurtugal The Enterpriser.
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    I agree with Goddess Briyella. I must have always gotten minimum damage from Sludge Bomb whenever I used 156 Hp Latias, because I've never had issuesbefore O_O. Calcs show otherwise so make the change xD
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  18. Oopa

    Oopa

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    ooh thanks for the stats :) there was no confusion so no need to be sorry but thanks for the clarification :). However, there exist the problem that Latias might not be getting KOs she would normally have with more SAtk, and all this for that situation in which the weather war is lost, Venusaur gets a healthy Growth boost, and it is carrying Sludge bomb over sleep powder. But then again, just because i have not faced this situation much probably because I'm not good enough of a battler to get to battle players where this happens, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.


    I thought you suggested 112 HP for Latias before O_o. Aside from that, thanks for the feedback - Latias seems to be the centre of attention on this team atm XD
  19. Goddess Briyella

    Goddess Briyella Felicette is the cutest
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    Yes, the loss in power is unfortunate, but Draco Meteor will still OHKO many things because of STAB and the Life Orb boost. Most things that resist Draco Meteor take double damage from HP Fire as well. Growth Venusaur on Sun teams (which carry Ninetales for permanent Sun) is a huge problem without this implementation, and also please note that this added bulk can also be beneficial in less pressuring situations such as facing Rotom-W and walling its STAB moves with ease. It should also be noted that Latias is a generally good check to Fighting types, most notably the common threats Breloom and Keldeo. Maintaining an offensive set with Life Orb and being able to shrug off the attacks of many juggernauts in OU ensures that, overall, the trade off is definitely worth it. ^_^
  20. Se7en_

    Se7en_

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    Amazing team you have there, I have to say that I've been enjoying using it for the good part of a week, but one pokemon always seems to be doing much much less work than the rest, which is ttar. The CB set, while strong, is very slow and it can't take special attacks from psychic and ghost types nearly as well as the specially defensive set.

    Today I got the idea to introduce another trapped that doesn't have those problems, weavile. Its faster so doesn't need to take a hit before revenging or attacking.

    This is the set I've been testing instead of ttar, and its been doing rather good so far.

    Weavile @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Ice Shard
    - Night Slash
    - Pursuit
    - Low Kick

    Night Slash and Pusruit cover the Crunch/Pursuit moves from ttar, low kick for superpower and ice shard revenges dragons and hits flying pokes just like stone edge does. Only this thing is really fast and can change its moves. Having three choices pokes in the team makes it very easy to revenge something and then be forced to switch as the opponent brings in a resist. While the sandstorm residual damage will be missed, I can't help but notice that none of the pokes in the team really benefit directly from the sand. The biggest problem is not being able to cancel the other weather but so far it hasn't been a big problem.
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  21. Oopa

    Oopa

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    Nice to hear you've been having fun with this team :)
    As you have noticed the team doesn't directly benefit from sandstorm, though Terrakion did when he was still in the team, and it helped create the illusion of Sand Force Landorus when Landorus was still OU. The thing about the team is it doesn't really care about Sandstorm so its more like a "oh goodie its sandstorm" rather than having a depressed look on the Pokemon's faces when they find Tyranitar was killed off. Fortunately, most if not all of the team hits hard, and can keep the offensive pressure, but having Choice items, as you mention do get locked, but the boost from the items far outweighs the cons. If Weavile is working better than Tyranitar for you, then by all means keep using the sneaky weasel, but the lack of a rapid spinner can at times mean his frail frame will be further compromised if he doesn't KO something. However, saying that, i prefer the raw power that a Banded Crunch/Stone Edge brings to the table, and the still reasonable bulk that Tyranitar has. Weavile might not get you past teams which abuse their weather, and love having it stay forever, but if you can work around it, I'm not here to stop you! :)
  22. Se7en_

    Se7en_

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    Yeah that is definitely true, no spinner means poor weavile gets in four times at most which is becoming a problem...... The only solution that sometimes work is that Garchomp roasts ferrothorn or forretress before they get a chance to get stealth rock up which only works when I predict them coming in to soak an outrage or earthquake only to take a fire blast followed by an earthquake...... That actually works sometimes. However, since a ton of pokes learn stealth rock, its nearly impossible to actually keep it off the field without a spinner. Both tyranitar and weavile seem to have their merits...... I'll keep you updated if I run into other problems or a good idea!

    Cheers!
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  23. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
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    You only need 244 speed EVs on Latias, seeing as you're using hp fire. Since you have CB Tar/Scizor, there's really no need to speed tie with HP Fire Lati@s and gengar if it decides to run it. You can put the rest in special attack.

    additionally, I would give Tyranitar a Tanga Berry so you don't get swept by passho volcarona or volcarona with sun up. You put your hazards on Garchomp so its not that hard to spin them away with no ghosts to stop them. It's also great against sun so you don't lose your tyranitar in the process and still maintain your weather for the future.
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  24. Oopa

    Oopa

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    thanks for the tips. i forgot about the unnecessary speed evs on latias, so thanks for bringing that up. on the note of tyranitar, tanga berry sounds like a nice idea, but usually volcarona is never a problem anyway, and usually doesn't amass multiple boosts unless the user of the team screws up. still, the power loss could be worth it when a stinky moth shows its face.

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