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A monster named Stu

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Raseri, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    NU Leader

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Hello fellow Smogonites, I am Raseri and this is my first Neverused RMT. Variants of this team have been around since the last round but only with the discovery of Shelgon as a top-tier threat in NU(thanks to DTC) did this team truly flourish. Ok a little back story about myself; I first started playing NU as soon as the first RU stats were posted and someone made a thread to discuss it. I played against a few people such as Raikaria where we both experimented with potential threats. I remember using pokemon like Carnivine and Mothim to some extent in the initial unofficial metagame. Obviously very few of the Pokemon that I used in that time ended up being viable but it was still my first time playing NU in the fifth gen. However the construction of this team did not begin until Stage One when Jynx showed herself as top-tier threat as a counter to Gorebyss and as the best sweeper in the tier. The basis of this team in particular is not Jynx; it is built around Shelgon. Shelgon was originally posted as a Reseach Week Pokemon that caught my eye. It has amazing physical bulk(only slightly less than Tangela), amazing neutral coverage, 95 Attack and being a fucking dragon was enough to convince me to use him. This team allowed me to reach #1 on the ladder(a picture is below) and defeat MoP when he said he could beat anyone at NU despite never having played the tier :P. I believe it is one of my most succesful teams to date and gives an accurate representation of the metagame right now.

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]


    Anyways onto the team: I hereby present A monster named Stu!

    [​IMG]
    Golem (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Blast
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    Golem has become the most common Stealth Rock layer on offensive teams for a reason. Great STAB’s, defense and attack allow him to combat many threats in the tier. Sturdy and Lum Berry allow me to easily handle anyone foolish enough to lead with ninjask, butterfree or Jynx. Anyone who plays NU knows how serious Golem is; and this set allows me to handle a lot of threats to my team. Stealth Rock is mandatory to keep Charizard and other Rock-weak types from switching on for free. Earthquake and Rock Blast provide me a nice combination of attacks that rip through anything weak to them; and even some things that aren’t. Rock Blast even has a chance to OHKO Armaldo and stops him from setting up Stealth Rock; let alone spin mine away. Toxic is the most controversial move choice; as Sucker Punch is the recommended option for the slot. Toxic allowes me to permanently cripple many of the best switch-ins to Golem; such as Torterra, Tangela, Leafeon and Quagsire. Tangela and Quagsire both have the potential to threaten my team greatly; as Shelgon can not set up on them. Though Shelgon can set up with ease against the other two. Overall Golem is not the most useful Pokemon, but he does his job and he does it well. There are no true replacements for what Golem brings; the combination of Sturdy and Rock Blast are what truly sets him apart from counter parts like Regirock and Probopass.


    [​IMG]
    Stu (Shelgon) (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    This Shelgon set may be one of the best sets in NU right now. It is able to switch into a myriad of physical attackers including but not limited to: Golem, Sawk, Torterra, Leafeon, Armaldo and Absol and proceed to set up and destroy them. Shelgon’s defense is nothing to laugh at, nearly rivaling Tangela’s. The key to this set is simple. Switch in on a wall or physical attacker, proceed to set up as many Dragon Dance’s as you can, use rest and Sleep Talk to either set up more or throw an Outrage that doesn’t even lock you in. This Shelgon can single handedly win games against teams without a fast ice move, and one false prediction and the opponents ice type can fall since very few can actually live an Outrage(lol Cryogonal and Jynx). Shelgon is slightly inconsistent since bad luck with Sleep Talk can cost him his life, but sheer bulk and offensive prowess outweigh the 33% chance of your turn being wasted. However in matches where my opponent is overloaded with Special Attackers Shelgon’s use diminishes, as his special defense also rivals Tangela’s. in matches where I can not see an opportunity to set Shelgon up I often opt to use him as a pivot; or even a suicidal Pokemon that spams Outrage until there is no tomorrow. Even in this limited role Shelgon has proven to be effective. As base 95 attack is nothing to laugh at.

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    Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot

    Mono-attacking Jynx is one of the most interesting Pokemon in the metagame. She is able to handle special attackers that can defeat Shelgon such as Altaria or haze-less cryogonal. In fact with Sub and Lovely Kiss there are very few Pokemon that can defeat Jynx. Defeating Jynx is often delegated to revenge killers, as very few Pokemon can actually switch into Jynx and defeat her. Early game Jynx is most concerned with knocking small amounts of HP off of potential checks; in order to break through them when the time for a Jynx sweep arrives. Jynx probably sweeps more teams than Shelgon; she is often the MVP of the team, and the most broken Pokemon in Neverused. The increased usage in Offensive Nasty Plot Jynx has made executing a sweep with the mono-attacker much easier. This Jynx runs through stall teams and offense teams alike. Stall often has to rely on Lickilicky to defeat her; and one long sleep is all it takes to incapacitate the pink blob and run through the remainder of the team. The key to using this Jynx set is not to use it aggressively; people who play stupid with it will often call it inferior to more offensive Jynx sets and that is simply not the case. This Jynx plays differently than any other, as it uses its typing and speed to find opportunities to set up and isn’t meant to just plow through the opponents team without any regard for defence.


    [​IMG]
    Gurdurr (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Drain Punch
    - Rock Slide
    - Bulk Up
    - Mach Punch

    Gurdurr is an amazing Pokemon. Recovery in Drain Punch, priorty in Mach Punch and coverage in Rock Slide is all he needs to run through the metagame. Gurdurr plays the role of a back up bulky sweeper; but is more focused on immediate damage than his counterpart Shelgon. Gurdurr often finds himself setting up infront of weak normal types like Miltank or an unboosted Sawsbuck. These normal types, as well as Rock types like Regirock provide enough fodder for Gurdurr since they are found on almost every team. Rock Slide is chosen over payback so I can hit Charizard on the switch for the swift OHKO, as Charizard could pose a significant threat if I allowed him to get in for free. And without it he would have a free switch in, and I can not allow that to happen. Gurdurr is capable of running through any team without a bulky psychic or poison type with ease and is nearly impossible to OHKO without a super effective attack. Gurdurrs bulk also allows him to tank a hit from common scarfers if necessary and hit them with a Drain Punch to weaken them for Absol if needed. Gurdurrs role in the metagame is unique to him and he will continue to be a threat as long as NU is in existence.


    [​IMG]
    Absol (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Night Slash
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Superpower
    - Sucker Punch
    HP Grass Absol? Wtf are you on Raseri? HP Grass is a very important move for Absol, it allows me to defeat Quagsire who switch into Night Slash or have taken previous damage. And as you may have seen my sweepers can not effectively break through Quagsire bar Jynx. Other than the strange special move this Absol is standard. Sucker Punch allows me to handle fast Pokemon such as Ludicolo in rain or Charizard. Night Slash gives me something to deal consistent damage when a non attacking move is probable; and is very important to Absol’s success. Superpower lets me nab Regirock and other fighting weak mons who think they can handle Absol. Naughty + LO is to maximize damage output, and with a Pokemon unconcerned with his own life, dedicated to supporting the team the extra damage is critical. Without it Absol would not be able to handle half the threats he can now. If one member had to leave it would be Absol, but even then he makes an excellent offensive core with Gurdurr and Musharna and provides critical support for the test of the team. He works with Musharna to form the glue of the team; without their offensive support the team would crumble with ease.


    [​IMG]
    Musharna (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Moonlight

    LO Musharna is seriously amazing. In this metagame something to manhandle fighting types is a necessity; and a bulky psychic type is among the best ways to do this. This set is capable of defeating Absol with HP Fighting, Gurdurr with Psychic, and Gardevoir with Shadow Ball. This combination of moves allows everything to be hit for neutral damage. I have often considered a bulky booster Musharna as it is very effective (as MoP would know) but this team already has two bulky boosters so an offensive pivot to fire off monstrously powerful attacks before dying brings a lot to the team. Moonlight allows me to heal on obvious switches, or weak attacks when the opponent believes that I will not recover. Musharna has established herself as one of the best Pokemon this meta, capable of checking and dealing damage to many top threats. Surviving an attack from things like Magmortar before OHKOing in return is incredibly impressive for something that doesn’t even resist fire or focus on special defence. No pokemon can fulfill the role Musharna can; Duosion either lacks bulk or power, Gardevoir lacks bulk, Kadabra lacks bulk. Musharna is the only one that can easily combine both and take advantage of it. Musharna is irreplaceable as a pivot and tank and I highly recommend you use her on your next team.

    Threats:
    Misdreavus – with Taunt it is hard to handle, since it can WoW Golem and Absol. It always dies though but not before crippling something.
    LO Musharna – I need to get Absol in, night slash as I die and then quickly hurt it with something else.
    Strong Special attackers can be a problem if I misplay; but other than that I believe that most common threats are easily handled by this team. I may post an indepth threatlist but I doubt it.

    Importable (open)
    Golem (F) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Atk / 48 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Rock Blast
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock

    Shelgon (M) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Rock Head
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Dragon Dance
    - Outrage
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Jynx (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Ice Beam
    - Lovely Kiss
    - Substitute
    - Nasty Plot

    Gurdurr (F) @ Eviolite
    Trait: Guts
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Drain Punch
    - Rock Slide
    - Bulk Up
    - Mach Punch

    Absol (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)
    - Night Slash
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Superpower
    - Sucker Punch

    Musharna (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SAtk
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Psychic
    - Shadow Ball
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]
    - Moonlight



    Thank you to anyone that has helped me with the team, either by battling me or through advice given to me through conversation. I appreciate all of it.

    Rate away :) and leave a luvdisc if you like it!
  2. spuds4ever

    spuds4ever

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    Hi, nice team, bulky offense is a really cool play-style and one of the best in NU and this team capitalizes on that.

    I see white herb gorebyss being a serious threat to this team as, while it has a fairly tough time setting up, not even absol's sucker punch can beat it and HP rock (which is an under-rated moved which I myself carry) can smash through jynx. Musharna seems like the least necessary member on your team (from my speculating point of view) so I would be tempted to switch musharna out for scarfed rotom-s. Rotom not only counters gorebyss well (granted it can't switch in on ice beam, but it'll have to smash if it wants to get around jynx) and preserves momentum, something I've found to be extremely useful when playing bulky offense. Of course, I'm sure you'd be able to find a set that suits your team much better than me so I'll leave you to that if you do decide to make the change.

    Hth, :)
  3. FLCL

    FLCL
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis Smogon Frontier's Salon Maidenis a Past SPL Winner

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    I remember playing this team many times during the 7th RW and it was a great battle every time; congratulations on making such a successful team!

    With that being said I notice a slight weakness to birds on this team. Although you have Golem, I can hardly see it surviving for very long in a match due to lack of Leftovers. Shelgon is a great check but if you get forced out while asleep or have bad luck with Sleep Talk then you're in trouble. I also see a weakness to Magmortar since HP Ice can do a number on Shelgon and the other team members can't really switch in. I don't really know what could be used to fix these holes, since every member of your team is so crucial. Regirock seems like a good fit, but it really kills off momentum which this team loves. As long as Absol is alive you should be able to prevent a sweep by the threats mentioned.

    Again, this is a fantastic team and props for building it around Shelgon. Here's a Luvdisc for you!
  4. No Luck Involved

    No Luck Involved

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    This team is very sexual.

    I have a few suggestions that Jessica Alba may even be proud of (maybe not but here's hoping).

    Sub + Kiss is an amazing combo on Jynx. But get rid of Nasty Plot and replace it with Psyshock. Now you beat Cryogonal instantly and still severely dent most special walls. Steel types wall you but what are Steel types when you have Golem, Shelgon and Gurdurr.

    I'll have to playtest this before I make any other suggestions (such as maybe swapping the combo of Golem and Musharna for a different hazard setter + Fighting counter pair) because there's nothing else that's jumping out at me.

    I absolutely love this team and congrats on the peak!
  5. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    Hi spuds4ever, I have to disagree with scarf rotom-s as it removes my main form of defense against teams. As you said; Gorebyss has trouble setting up. In fact it can only set up on a sleeping Shelgon; as every other member can smash it within priority range for either Absol or Gurdurr's range. And since HP Bug and Rock still seem rare i've only been swept by it once I believe. I will consider the change but I'm afraid I'll lose my best switch-in to various threats! Rotom-S is not bulky enough to take the hits I need too.


    Birds can be a problem for sure. My main plan against them is to lay down rocks as quickly as possible and continue to throw attacks at them so they can not switch in at all except to revenge threats. I am also not overly concerned with them since they can not switch in at all and shelgon / Golem can tank a hit or two if needed.

    Magmortar is more of an issue; luckily its rock weak as well so I can generally sac golem and force it out with Absol. It also can not OHKO Musharna or Golem so they can combat him in a pinch. I generally preserve Absol against teams with a lot of offensive threats. But without him I am open to be demolished my threats like Magmortar.

    Hi No Luck involved; Nasty Plot is an important move on Jynx as it allows me to sweep. I will definitely try psyshock though since it makes Magmortar a lot easier to take out. Golem + Musharna are essential to the team so I doubt I can change them.

    Thank you for the rates everyone! I'll test the changes!
  6. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Very great team, Shelgon has had its way with me so many times, I started to feel violated. LO Musharna is really cool to see and looks very effective and I'll definitely have to try that out. Its a lot harder to rate and recommend things to a good team than one that is flawed, so this won't be easy.

    Now on to the rate, from the looks of it here is a list of Pokemon you will struggle against:
    Misdreavus, SpecsTaria, Magmortar, and Specsggutor. Give any of these Pokemon a free switch in and they can deal an absurdly huge amount of damage against your team. Misdreavus can prevent Stealth Rock from coming into the field and preventing Shelgon from doing much damage by denying it of its Dragon Dance boosts. Specs Altaria is a bulky Pokemon and can come in on Pokemon like Gurdurr, Mushurna, or even Absol with the right prediction. Once given the chance it can OHKO your entire team excluding Musharna who gets 2HKOed.

    Same with Magmortar and Exeggutor who if its gets a free switch possibly from Jynx or Gurdurr, Shelgon, and Golem respectively and can and 2HKO your entire team. These kind of Pokemon open up your team for others to come in and break through the remains.

    We identified the problem, but now comes the hardest part in trying to fix or improve it. All the Pokemon your team struggles with are vicious special attackers and your team is need of a special sponge as without maximum investment Musharna can't take Choice Specs or LO boosted attacks from already powerful Pokemon such as Magmortar, Exeggutor, or Altaria. Exeggutor and Altaria are checked just fine by Jynx and Absol, but Magmortar needs to be checked by Gurdurr and Absol and your team has no way of preventing or getting rid of entry hazards and both Gudurr and Absol are worn down by Spikes, while the most common Spikes user Garbodor can set them up on Gurdurr while Clear Smog or using Haze as you attempt to Bulk Up.

    My best approach attempting this is by replacing Musharna with Hypno as that can not only handle Magmortar, Exeggutor, Altaria, and even Jynx(Thanks to Insomnia) well but can provide Wish support allowing Golem to regain its Sturdy, giving Gurdurr another chance to Bulk Up, or giving Absol more turns to attack when it is constantly wearing itself down with Life Orb.

    Hypno (open)
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Hypno (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Insomnia
    EVs: 252 HP / 40 Def / 216 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Thunder Wave
    - Seismic Toss
    This Hypno's EV spread lets it handle all of the aforementioned Pokemon just as well as with maximum investment while the 40 Def Evs let it tank Sawk EQs slightly better even capable allowing Hypno to turn a 3HKO in a 4HKO, allowing for an easier time crippling it with Thunder Wave.
  7. erisia

    erisia (macho) brace yourselves
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Agreed, if anything's a weak link on the team, it's probably Musharna. I've used that set before and I know it's pretty good, but it doesn't really do a lot for your team other than switching into Sawk and firing off attacks. However, I'm not sure if replacing it with Hypno is the best idea, as it changes the focus of the team from bulky offense to something more semi-stallish, as it can't threaten switchins with powerful attacks.

    The way I see it, it might just be worth changing Musharna to a Specially Defensive Rest Talk set or something, if your problem is dealing with special attackers. Rest Talk would give you a sleep absorber which is pretty cool, while you can still use Psychic / HP Fighting while Absol deals with Ghosts and Psychics. These are just suggestions though, the team looks really solid and i wouldn't want to detract from its offense too much.
  8. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    Hmm, yeah I can see why he he would want to keep Musharna. After doing some damage calcs, Specially defensive Musharna is actually slightly bulkier than Hypno specially defensively and much better physically.

    Its true SleepTalk will let you get past Lovely Kiss or other sleep inducing moves, but I feel like Moonlight is needed to more reliably beat specially attackers, would suck if you only get 3HKOed by LO Fire Blast from Magmortar and only pull a Rest or a single Psychic while using Sleep Talk.

    You can essentially use the same attacks on Musharna just change the spread to 252 HP 4 Def / 252 SpD @ Calm and Lefties. Musharna can still deal good damage with its base 107 SAtk Stat
  9. |DarkSector|

    |DarkSector|

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    Great team, one luvdisc only because you are a Shelgon user as me and you are doing great with him as well! ^^
  10. Raseri

    Raseri musharna fan
    is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
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    I've been trying a specially defensive Musharna so far and it's been pretty good. The drop in power is drastic but the ability to take on the special threats is great. Thank you for the help guys =D
  11. nyttyn

    nyttyn

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    Fought this the other day. It was a real pain in the ass, so I have to give you credit sir. Especially that damn shelgon. I would like to recommend Gardevoir to replace Jynx, as it provides the same basic role on a team, if one doesn't mind the even shakier accuracy of Hypnosis (I run T-Wave instead). The loss of ice beam isn't exactly nice, and the 10 speed drop kind of hurts, but given that your Jynx didn't have speed investment, I think it's suited to take on the role. Plus, Gardevoir gets Shadow Ball and Signal Beam.


    Also, you refer to Golem and Gurdurr repeatedly as male despite them being in actuality female, which is hilarious. You also refer to Mushrana as female despite it being male. Which is also hilarious.

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