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Gen 1 A RBY LC Warstory

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Crystal_, Dec 21, 2012.

  1. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    903
    This is my first warstory! Enjoy :)


    Battle between Crystal_ and Dre. started!

    Tier: RBY LC
    Mode: Singles
    Rule: Unrated
    Rule: Sleep Clause
    Rule: Freeze Clause
    Rule: Species Clause
    Rule: Self-KO Clause



    Crystal_ sent out Drowzee!
    Dre. sent out Exeggcute!


    Both of us start with a sleeper. Exeggcute and Drowzee both have 13 speed, but Exeggcute has the small edge due to Sleep Powder's higher accuracy. On the other hand, Exeggcute is a more useful Pokemon overall and I have my own Exeggcute as a back-up sleeper as well.


    Start of turn 1
    The foe's Exeggcute used Sleep Powder!
    Drowzee fell asleep!


    Drowzee is fast asleep.


    Start of turn 2
    Dre. called Exeggcute back!
    Dre. sent out Diglett!


    Crystal_ called Drowzee back!
    Crystal_ sent out Ponyta!


    Ponyta is a good Pokemon in LC; it reaches 18 speed and its main selling point is its ability to capitalize on Exeggcute, which is the best Pokemon in the tier along with Staryu, and being able to survive two Psychics from it. He went to Diglett however; I knew that was a possibility, but I had my Exeggcute waiting, anyway.


    Start of turn 3
    Crystal_ called Ponyta back!
    Crystal_ sent out Exeggcute!


    The foe's Diglett used Earthquake!
    It's not very effective...
    Exeggcute lost 5 HP! (20% of its health)



    Start of turn 4
    Dre. called Diglett back!
    Dre. sent out Exeggcute!


    Exeggcute used Sleep Powder!
    The foe's Exeggcute fell asleep!


    He goes to Exeggcute to take the sleep thinking it doesn't have a lot else to do for him, but that's great news for me, because now both Diglett and Pikachu become instant threats against him. Also, I can now sac Drwoze whenever I want to. A healthy Exeggcute can deal with a lot of stuff in LC thanks to its resistances.


    Start of turn 5
    Exeggcute used Psychic!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Exeggcute lost 20% of its health!
    The foe's Exeggcute's Special fell!


    The foe's Exeggcute is fast asleep.



    Start of turn 6
    Crystal_ called Exeggcute back!
    Crystal_ sent out Ponyta!


    The foe's Exeggcute is fast asleep.


    This time I get Ponyta safely against Exeggcute. I didn't want to be forced to switch out against Staryu this eraly, so instead of Body Slamming I decided to go to Pikachu.


    Start of turn 7
    Crystal_ called Ponyta back!
    Crystal_ sent out Pikachu!


    Dre. called Exeggcute back!
    Dre. sent out Staryu!



    Start of turn 8
    Dre. called Staryu back!
    Dre. sent out Exeggcute!


    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Exeggcute lost 20% of its health!



    Start of turn 9
    Dre. called Exeggcute back!
    Dre. sent out Diglett!


    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It had no effect on the foe's Diglett!


    I almost Surfed actually, but in the end I didn't because of the possibility of Exeggcute waking up if it stayed in (as it could've survived another hit following the Surf while Thunderbolt 2HKOed it). Had I been smarter here, I would've gone to Staryu. Still, my Exeggcute was fresh enough to switch into Diglett.


    Start of turn 10
    Crystal_ called Pikachu back!
    Crystal_ sent out Exeggcute!


    The foe's Diglett used Slash!
    A critical hit!
    Exeggcute lost 8 HP! (32% of its health)



    Start of turn 11
    The foe's Diglett used Slash!
    A critical hit!
    Exeggcute lost 8 HP! (32% of its health)


    Exeggcute used Stun Spore!
    The foe's Diglett is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!


    I didn't explode because I thought he would go to Exeggcute to absorb it. But para is great news too, especially considering we are talking about Diglett.


    Start of turn 12
    Exeggcute used Psychic!
    The foe's Diglett lost 55% of its health!


    The foe's Diglett is paralyzed! It can't move!


    Same reason I didn't explode here either.


    Start of turn 13
    Dre. called Diglett back!
    Dre. sent out Abra!


    Exeggcute used Psychic!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Abra lost 18% of its health!



    Start of turn 14
    Crystal_ called Exeggcute back!
    Crystal_ sent out Drowzee!


    The foe's Abra used Seismic Toss!
    Drowzee lost 5 HP! (20% of its health)


    Many would've sacced Exeggcute, but I didn't because it will very likely prove out more useful later on when I have to pivot against a more dangerous Pokemon. This is a very important part of RBY LC.


    Start of turn 15
    Dre. called Abra back!
    Dre. sent out Ponyta!


    Drowzee is fast asleep.


    I was 90% sure he would switch out to something that did more damage to Drowzee, and thus, I almost switched out too to avoid being left with a sleeping Pokemon against whatever he may send out. However, had it Psychic'd instead, Abra would've put me in a nasty situation, so I decided to go "safer" and stay in just in case.


    Start of turn 16
    Crystal_ called Drowzee back!
    Crystal_ sent out Staryu!

    The foe's Ponyta used Body Slam!
    Staryu lost 8 HP! (36% of its health)
    Staryu is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!


    Definitely very bad news, but that's what happens when you take risks I guess. Staryu is arguably the most dangerous Pokemon in LC... when it's not paralyzed!


    Start of turn 17
    The foe's Ponyta used Fire Spin!
    It's not very effective...
    Staryu lost 1 HP! (4% of its health)



    Start of turn 18
    Dre. called Ponyta back!
    Dre. sent out Pikachu!


    Great use of Fire Spin from him here. Wrap moves are even better in LC than in level 100 tiers because they do more % damage on average. Agility + Wrap Dratini is banned for this reason.


    Start of turn 19
    Crystal_ called Staryu back!
    Crystal_ sent out Exeggcute!


    The foe's Pikachu used Thunder Wave!
    Exeggcute is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!


    Remember when I said that I will find a better moment to pivot with Exeggcute?


    Start of turn 20
    Crystal_ called Exeggcute back!
    Crystal_ sent out Diglett!


    The foe's Pikachu used Quick Attack!
    Diglett lost 5 HP! (25% of its health)


    Still, I thought there will another moment in which I will need even more. I only did this because it was clear he wasn't going to Surf, as it wasn't a guaranteed OHKO against Egg. Quick Attack damage was more relevant as it may seem though, because now Diglett is in the KO range of Abra's Psychic, and you never know what will happen next.


    Start of turn 21
    Dre. called Pikachu back!
    Dre. sent out Diglett!


    Diglett used Earthquake!
    The foe's Diglett lost 45% of its health!
    The foe's Diglett fainted!

    Dre. sent out Staryu!


    6 - 5


    Start of turn 22
    Crystal_ called Diglett back!
    Crystal_ sent out Exeggcute!

    The foe's Staryu used Blizzard!
    It's super effective!
    Exeggcute lost 4 HP! (16% of its health)
    Exeggcute fainted!

    Crystal_ sent out Pikachu!


    See now? :)

    5 - 5


    Start of turn 23
    Dre. called Staryu back!
    Dre. sent out Exeggcute!


    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Exeggcute lost 20% of its health!



    Start of turn 24
    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Exeggcute lost 20% of its health!


    The foe's Exeggcute is fast asleep.



    Start of turn 25
    Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    It's not very effective...
    The foe's Exeggcute lost 20% of its health!
    The foe's Exeggcute fainted!

    Dre. sent out Ponyta!


    5 - 4


    Start of turn 26
    The foe's Ponyta used Fire Spin!
    Pikachu lost 3 HP! (13% of its health)


    I used T-Wave there, but he won the speed tie


    Start of turn 27
    Crystal_ called Pikachu back!
    Crystal_ sent out Ponyta!


    The foe's Ponyta used Fire Spin!
    The attack of the foe's Ponyta missed!


    His Exeggcute was dead and he had Staryu, so my Ponyta was less of a threat to him than his was to me.


    Start of turn 28
    The foe's Ponyta used Body Slam!
    Ponyta lost 9 HP! (37% of its health)


    Ponyta used Body Slam!
    The foe's Ponyta lost 37% of its health!



    Start of turn 29
    Ponyta used Body Slam!
    The attack of Ponyta missed!


    The foe's Ponyta used Body Slam!
    Ponyta lost 9 HP! (37% of its health)

    Crystal_: o
    Dre.: Lol.


    Start of turn 30
    The foe's Ponyta used Body Slam!
    Ponyta lost 6 HP! (25% of its health)
    Ponyta fainted!

    Crystal_ sent out Diglett!


    4 - 4


    Start of turn 31
    Diglett used Earthquake!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Ponyta lost 62% of its health!

    The foe's Ponyta fainted!


    Dre.: I didn;t click anything there.
    Crystal_: ?
    Dre.: it just did that automatically.
    Crystal_: lol arena trap y/n
    Dre.: It did that last battle too.
    Dre. sent out Staryu!
    Crystal_: idk lol

    4 - 3


    Start of turn 32
    Crystal_ called Diglett back!
    Crystal_ sent out Drowzee!


    Dre. called Staryu back!
    Dre. sent out Abra!


    It was a bit weird what he did here. He was probably too scared about Pikachu, but Pikachu was too valuable for me to risk it to a possible 2HKO or take around 50% from Surf in the switch-in. I just went to Drowzee to sacrifice it so that I could get Pikachu into Staryu safely.


    Start of turn 33
    The foe's Abra used Seismic Toss!
    Drowzee lost 5 HP! (20% of its health)


    Drowzee woke up!



    Start of turn 34
    The foe's Abra used Reflect!
    Reflect raised Dre.'s team defense!


    Drowzee used Hypnosis!
    The foe's Abra fell asleep!


    Reflect is a really shitty move in LC though. At level 5 it’s effect is comparable to +1 Defense instead of to +2. But it’s not that Abra learns a lot of moves to choose from anyway. I personally like Counter but the fourth move is hardly relevant.


    Start of turn 35
    Crystal_ called Drowzee back!
    Crystal_ sent out Diglett!


    The foe's Abra is fast asleep.



    Start of turn 36
    Diglett used Earthquake!
    A critical hit!
    The foe's Abra lost 81% of its health!
    The foe's Abra fainted!

    Dre. sent out Staryu!


    4 - 2


    Start of turn 37
    Crystal_ called Diglett back!
    Crystal_ sent out Staryu!


    The foe's Staryu used Thunder Wave!
    Staryu is already paralyzed.


    This game is very often about finding which is the least useful Pokemon because you will often find yourself forced to sacrifice something when you are in a mismatch. End-games are very often like "I kill you, you kill me, I kill you, you kill me" as you can imagine, so having an early (dis)advantage is very relevant for the outcome of the macth.


    Start of turn 38
    The foe's Staryu used Thunderbolt!
    It's super effective!
    Staryu lost 13 HP! (59% of its health)
    Staryu fainted!

    Crystal_ sent out Pikachu!


    3 - 2


    Start of turn 39
    Dre. called Staryu back!
    Dre. sent out Pikachu!

    Pikachu used Thunder Wave!
    The foe's Pikachu is paralyzed! It may be unable to move!



    Start of turn 40
    Crystal_ called Pikachu back!
    Crystal_ sent out Drowzee!


    The foe's Pikachu used Surf!
    A critical hit!
    Drowzee lost 8 HP! (32% of its health)


    I pivot with Drowzee so that I can get Diglett safely into Pikachu. No need to take more risks.


    Start of turn 41
    Drowzee used Psychic!
    The foe's Pikachu lost 65% of its health!


    The foe's Pikachu used Thunderbolt!
    Drowzee lost 7 HP! (28% of its health)
    Drowzee fainted!
    Crystal_ sent out Diglett!


    2 - 2


    Start of turn 42
    The foe's Pikachu used Quick Attack!
    Diglett lost 5 HP! (25% of its health)


    Diglett used Substitute!
    Diglett made a substitute!


    I use Sub in case it gets fully paralyzed. If he FP's it is basically game over because my Diglett would beat his Staryu barring a 255. Otherwise I will still need Pikachu to finish off Staryu, which means that a timely freeze from Staryu would give him the win. He didn't expect Substitute I guess, so now a low roll QA or a FP lets my beat Pikachu with a Sub up.


    Start of turn 43
    The foe's Pikachu used Quick Attack!
    Diglett's substitute took the damage!


    Diglett used Earthquake!
    A critical hit!
    It's super effective!
    The foe's Pikachu lost 34% of its health!
    The foe's Pikachu fainted!

    Dre. sent out Staryu!


    And the low roll happened.

    2 - 1


    Start of turn 44
    Diglett used Earthquake!
    The foe's Staryu lost 63% of its health!


    The foe's Staryu used Blizzard!
    It's super effective!
    Diglett's substitute faded!


    And since his chances of winning now were around 1/6000 he gives up, we start chatting, and I eventually win the battle via timeout.

    The battle ended by timeout.
    Crystal_ won the battle!



    Props

    - RBY Little Cup, for being an awesome metagame
    - Dre, for being a strong opponent and making the battle very close
    - Myself, for being in a 20+ winning streak in LC (I'm not kidding lol)
    - Diglett, for killing most of his Pokemon
    - You, for reading this :)


    Slops

    - Staryu, for taking a para and then doing nothing
    - Ponyta, for 255-missing a Body Slam
    - Dre's PO, for apparently going crazy at turn 31
    Piexplode likes this.
  2. Danilo

    Danilo im a danilo!!!
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

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    nice warstory dude
    i love the in-depth analysis you give with such a dead metagame :)
  3. Isa

    Isa

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    10/10, would read again. RBY LC is a great metagame.

    This game is very often about finding which is the least useful Pokemon because you will often find yourself forced to sacrifice something when you are in a mismatch.
    Very true.

    Other notes: Seismic Toss is horrible in LC. I like Psychic/TWave/Body Slam/Counter. I guess you could run Kinesis over Counter...? Reflect/Seismic Toss is just a lazy transition without any thoughts involved though. (Sorry Dre)
  4. Dre89

    Dre89

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    I have to say, hearing your opponent's in-depth analysis of the battle is really interesting and informative. It's a shame people can't do this for every battle though, then we'd develop as players a lot quicker.

    Isa- Thanks for the tips on Abra. I don't know too much about LC at the moment.

    I personally find LC too offensive. Crystal is right, it is "I KO you, you KO me" a lot of the time, and the smallest mistakes can cost you a lot, even early-game.
  5. Zowayix

    Zowayix

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    Where is the RBY LC banlist? It doesn't seem to be in any immediately obvious place, and for example I had no idea that Agility + Wrap Dratini was banned until now.
  6. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    RBY LC isn't exactly the most... well-known or well-developed tier. The rules used here are played using rules developed by RBY2k10, which also include a strange ban on tradeback moves that are not in the Pokemon's level 100 movepool.
  7. Doughboy

    Doughboy house of champions
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus

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    Are there any Pokemon who have dragon rage or is there a soft ban on it?
  8. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    It's obviously banned. Think of Agility+DR Dratini omg!

    Since RBY OU has always been played with GSC tradeback moves banned (basically because GSC appeared after RBY), the logical transition to LC when it was made around 2-3 years ago was that Tradeback moves would also be banned there. The controversy is that, since it is impossible to get LV5 Pokemon learn most level-up moves without a GSC game, let alone get most Pokemon at exactly level 5 (as breeding doesn't exist in RBY), it probably doesn't make much sense to have GSC Tradeback moves banned in LC.
    The way I see it is that, since the idea of a RBY Little Cup metagame is taken from new gens rather than from the early stages of RBY, I am happy with the way RBY LC is at the moment: using level 100 movepools without taking into account incoherences related to the RBY games. It would feel weird to me to have different move options in standard OU and in LC.
    Piexplode likes this.
  9. t3h Icy

    t3h Icy

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    Yeah, I have no idea why we went with those rules honestly, lol.
  10. Dre89

    Dre89

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    You can use in-game glitching to get any pokemon at level 5. They would only be able to use moves learned before or at level 5, and TM moves.

    Saying 'we don't want to use glitches' is pretty stupid in this scenario because we're currently playing a meta that requires glitching to be playable in-game. At least my suggestion involves only in-game glitching, and not external hardware like the current meta would require.

    Or you can just simply play with tradebacks. Again, LC is a concept that has breeding in mind, so I don't understand why allowing tradebacks would be so bad.
  11. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    The point is that the idea of a LC metagame is taken from the new gens. The way RBY LC should be seen is that it is not a concept that belongs to the rby games, it's something that has been fun and successful in the new gens and now we want to transfer it to RBY without caring about how to deal with RBY in-game limitations. Because, lets be fair, if we start considering RBY in-game limitations, then LC in red/blue/yellow games doesn't really make sense to begin with because breeding doesn't exist.

    Abusing glitches to get otherwise unobtainable pokemon/moves is prohibited from competitive play in every generation, in every metagame. RBY Little Cup should be no exception. For this reason, since making LC viable in-game would require glitching, we start from the fact that RBY little cup is an unreal metagame; a metagame made "by hand". Knowing that, the obvjective is to shape this metagame in the most logical way after considering all the other metagames. Is standard RBY OU/UU/Ubers/NU played with tradeback moves? No. Or is any other [Little Cup] metagame played with moves from future gens allowed? Not either. So, to me, the most logical thing would be keeping GSC moves out.
  12. Dre89

    Dre89

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    If you're playing a meta that isn't possible in-game, then you're playing a glitch-meta. Current LC is only possible through glitching, therefore it's a glitch meta regardless of what the intention behind it was.

    RBY LC makes sense with tradebacks though. You say that RBY isn't played with tradebacks, but RBY also isn't played with illegal movesets and levels. Seeing as we're going to have to deviate from tradition one way or another, it makes much more sense to choose the option that's playable in-game.

    I mean think about it, if you're going to have to deviate from tradition one way or another, how is it more logical to take the option which is impossible in-game?

    We might as well just start making any glitch/hack meta we want, and just call it RBY.
  13. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Actually, what would RBY's metagame look like if all glitch Pokemon and moves were allowed (barring, obviously, ones that crash the game)?

    Would Golem's +3 Evasion move dominate?
  14. Crystal_

    Crystal_
    is a Pokemon Researcheris a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

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    Forget about glitches. The existence of that glitch is completely unrelated to how RBY LC is right now. Even if that glitch didn't exist RBY LC would have been the same. RBY LC is not a glitched meta, is simply an unobtainable meta. It's a "how would it be if" metagame, like if you think, how would rby be if we added gsc pokemon? But instead of adding pokemon, you add the breeding possibility. I just wanted to clarify that.

    On the other hand, I completely understand your point. Still, if we think about it, gsc is unobtainable through the current rby mindset and thats something all the rby metagames prove (with trades not being allowed in all these metas). I know it is a different level of unobtainability, but depending on how you see it, it's still the same issue you are arguing against. And even if we made an exception with that for LC, why not just keep gsc trade moves out no matter what? Does it make sense to have I/F/T punch abra and amnesia drowzee in LC, and not having zam and hypno with these moves in OU? Not much to me. And that's how I see things. And you have another point of view. And that's it. No need to argue more. At least not in this thread because it is not for talking this kind of stuff.

    On the other hand, this is an invalid argument. LC is a successful concept taken from new gens. You can't say, hey lets make a level 17 metagame with only yellow or purple pokemon allowed and expect it to be successful. And you know you can't.
    Piexplode likes this.
  15. Dre89

    Dre89

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    I have a response to that but you're right, this thread isn't for those types of discussions.
  16. Piexplode

    Piexplode I COULD BE BANNED!

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    I think the pomeg glitch is sometimes allowed ?_? in later gens lc
  17. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Totally worth resurrecting a 2-year-old thread?
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
    Bedschibaer and MoxieInfinite like this.
  18. Piexplode

    Piexplode I COULD BE BANNED!

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    oh

    I didn't realise how old it was

    I only saw it cos it was in Crystal_ 's signature


    sorry

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