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A Standardized Tiering System

Discussion in 'TCG' started by FearZeCrawdaunt, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

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    Considering Smogon's already famous for creating an incredibly well-accepted tiering system for the VG, I think it would be natural for Smogonites to take a stab at tiering decks within a rotation.

    I'd also argue that there's a relative need for this. It's not as though not having a defined tier for your deck to be in is useless, but I think that the TCG community at large runs a few different definitions of what is tier 1 etc... so having a standardized system would be appreciated for clarity's sake.

    One of the biggest inconsistencies in the unorganized tiering method is how some people (including myself at times) use the "tier 1.5" statement, to try and say that this deck is BL in that it's too good to be considered tier 2, but not good enough to make it to tier 1.

    The question is, how does one quantifiably and unbiasedly tier decks in the TCG? I have my own ideas about how to do this, but I thought it would be interesting to open it up to the floor first to see what people think/suggest.
  2. Lady Salamence

    Lady Salamence
    is a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus

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    How would you tier decks? I can claim my deck is different from the next one because I have one more Junk Arm than he does. Or, no, small changes doesn't mean anything, and they are still the same deck.


    please excuse me if I have no knowledge of tgc, the o ly reason I have cards are becuase they look cool
  3. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

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    General deck archetypes are already accepted as belonging to a certain tier or level of success, largely based off of tournament results.

    The problem is that no set language is in place to say exactly what is tier 2, 3 etc... I think everyone is pretty agreed on the top of tier 1, but when you get to the fringe of what might be considered a tier 1 deck people's definitions get a little hazy.
  4. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

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    I think if I were to suggest a method for how to tier decks... it would probably be this.

    • Take the last tournament series' final results
    • Calculate the % Total wins for each deck
    • Any deck that took at least 5% of all wins is considered tier 1
      -
    • Any deck that took multiple wins, but not over 5% of wins is considered tier 2
    • Any deck that only took 1 win will be evaluated based off of top cut results, as to whether it belongs in tier 2 or tier 3 (or lower)
    • If a deck has 1 win, and has top cut at least 1% of the time, it is considered tier 2
      -
    • If a deck has 1 win, and has top cut less than 1% of the time, it is considered tier 3
    • Any deck without at least 1 win, but has top cut at least 1% of the time is considered tier 3
      -
    • Any deck without at least 1 win, and has top cut less than 1% of the time is considered tier 4
      -
    • Any deck without any tournament results is considered tier 5

    This method obviously works well for a series of many small tournaments like Battle Roads, but should also work rather well for Cities, and even States. At tournaments like Regionals and Nationals, there are fewer overall, so it would be adapted to something like:

    • For Regionals, Nationals a placement in the top 4 is weighted the same as a smaller tournament win
    • Afterward, the above guidelines (regarding the 5% and 1% rules) apply, but are instead applied for decks down the chain of available tournament results.

    Percentages will be rounded to the nearest percent.

    The aim of this would be to provide clarity in discussion of decks and their places in the competitive world. This sort of tiering system would also provide a good summary list of decks that are competitive, that a player may be interested in playing. If we wanted to, Smogon could also write brief summary decklists/skeletons and strategy synopses (similar to how VG Pokemon get an explanation of movesets) to provide a comprehensive guide to the current format.

    In a Smogon-esque fashion, we could also rate decks as "____ Performing" based off of their tier. This is kind of a leap... but might be a fun way to sort of brand the idea as Smogon's. ex: OP, BL, UP, RP, NP for tiers 1-5.

    And for reference, based on this system, the current metagame decks would be rated thusly (based off of my tallies off Pokegym's results on the FP). I separated Troll and Fighting since the difference between the two has become more evident. Troll is Tornadus+Fighting Pokemon+Maybe Mewtwo, whereas Fighting Decks do not involve Tornadus, play far differently, and may still involve Mewtwo:

    Tier 1
    Darkrai + Friends
    Zeels
    Troll
    CMT
    Fighting
    Klinklang + Friends

    Tier 2
    Quad Entei
    Empoleon
    The Truth
    Vanilluxe/Vileplume/(Mew)
    Durant

    Tier 3
    Lugia Legend
    Accelgor/Vileplume/(Mew)
    Kyurem EX/Kyurem/Mewtwo EX
    Meganium/Vileplume
    ReshiPhlosion
    Terrakion/Eelektrik
    Thundurus/Terrakion
    Yanmega/Groudon
    Cinccino/Hypno/Vileplume

    Tier 4
    Mismagius/Vileplume/EX's
    ZPSTM
    Raikou/Eelektrik/Max Potion
    Tornadus/Mewtwo/Eelektrik
    Magnezone/Eelektrik
    MagneBoar
    Sharpedo/Scrafty
    Mismagius/Terrakion
    Electrodebox
    Gardevoir/Gothitelle
    Chandelure/Terrakion
    Kyurem EX/Terrakion/Mewtwo
    Darkrai/Chandelure
    Zebstrika variant of ZekEels
    KyuGatr
    Mewtwo/Darkrai/Donphan/SEL

    edit: It may also just work better to create a re-defined tiering method for each tournament series. They'd all be very similar, but since the available data changes so much from tournament series to series, rather than trying to create something that's standardized across all series, it might be more useful to create different standardization methods for each series.
  5. FearZeCrawdaunt

    FearZeCrawdaunt

    Joined:
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    And to update the week 5 results, and close out Battle Roads, that tiering system would come up with these results. I went through the whole thread on pokegym and retallied all the winning decks. I also split Troll and Aerodactyl/Tornadus up, because looking at one of the lists, it utilizes Darkrai and Dark Energy for free retreat and likely acceleration. Could be considered a Darkrai variant, but Darkrai is the only Dark Patch target. I think it's kind of like a Troll/Darkrai hybrid:

    Tier 1
    BDIF - Darkrai + Friends
    ZekEels
    CMT
    Troll
    Fighting

    Tier 2
    Klinklang + Friends
    Empoleon
    Entei
    The Truth
    Aerostar (Aerodactyl/Tornadus)
    Thundurus/Terrakion
    Accelgor/Vileplume
    Durant
    Vanilluxe/Victini/Vileplume
    DarkArk (Darkrai/Zoroark)
    Meganium/Vileplume
    Kumis.dec (Mismagius/EX's/Vileplume)
    MewScoops
    Electrodebox

    Tier 3
    Lugia Legend
    Kyurem/Kyurem EX(/Mewtwo)
    Cinccino/Hypno/Vileplume
    Yanmega/Groudon
    Entei/Tornadus
    Meganium/Vileplume

    Tier 4
    Lilligant/Vileplume
    ReshiPhlosion
    ZPSTM
    Six Corners
    Empoleon/Magnezone
    Celebi/Tornadus
    Sharpedo/Scrafty/Victini
    Celebi/Terrakion
    Magneels
    Groudon EX/Terrakion/Darkrai EX/Mewtwo EX/Zekrom EX
    Magneboar
    Plumebox? (Mew/Vileplume?)
    KyuGatr (Kyurem (/EX)/Feraligatr)
    Steelix/Groudon
    Gothitelle/Gardevoir
    Kyurem EX/Terrakion/Mewtwo EX
    Chandelure/Terrakion

    You can find my tallies here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/?18q1bk6f6ct78p6
    They differ a little from pokegym's (when you're counting hundreds of things, miscounts happen. Mighta been both of us :P) but overall pretty similar. Mine just takes decks like "Donphan/Mewtwo" or "Donphan/Cobalion" and merges that into "Fighting" as a deck archetype.
  6. stelzeradiane

    stelzeradiane

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    I think this is a good tip. I'll try this one and see. :)
  7. Yixagurpuldink

    Yixagurpuldink

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    May 26, 2013
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    I believe that we can tier each major preformed deck easily according to methods stated above.

    HOWEVER, like the video game, we should classify EACH set of cards (or individual card), and try to classify it, so that when someone tries to make a new, creative deck, they can see what they need.
    RATE EACH CARD IN TERMS OF ITS GENERAL JOB:
    For example-
    Emolga (Dragons Exalted)- {Colorless} Call for family(Search deck for 2 pokes and put on bench)
    Job- Get strong pokemon on field and retreat.
    Quality- Among the best at what it does
    Problems- Easily catchered and KOed unless you can get it back into your hand
    Good partner/deck- Emolga works on an ZekEels deck because he can CfF out any electrik still in the deck so that dynamotor can work, and getting out pokemon for Dynamotor's electric energies to be attached to.

    SOMETHING LIKE THAT. ITS NOT PERFECT.
  8. Crona

    Crona

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2010
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    134
    I second the idea of tiering individual cards of the rotation, rather than an entire deck. Analyses for cards can state what works well with it, eg Zekrom with Eels behind its back, Garchomp+Altaria, or if it's a very flexible card that can work with many decks (such as Emolga, able to call out Basics with any energy and low cost)

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