Serious A Women's Group Wants to Ban the Word "Bossy"

[Trax]

The first line was an overtly generalizing and sexist statement said in sarcasm. The second part was making the point that males in leadership positions are just as capable of being called "bossy", and that the behavior that elicits the "bossy" label is usually (READ: NOT IN ALL CASES) associated with poor management style. I also wanted to make the point that there are plenty of great leaders, male AND female, that do not have this problem because they are able to command respect without being "bossy". My stance is one of neutrality, not malicious sexism as you tried to make it appear. What exactly was the point of trying to demonize me?

Be reasonable WaterBomb, surely you can't be expecting logic and reading comprehension out of Smogons answer to a "social justice" crusader on tumblr. Somehow all I can think of is this.

 

[Nabbit]

I'm all for women's rights, but this isn't going to fix anything. It's like red ribbon week in school; just because I'm wearing red doesn't mean I'm not going to smoke or it's going to decrease the availability of drugs. Just because the word "bossy" is eliminated, it doesn't mean that girls will have an easier time obtaining leadership positions. The glass ceiling still exists.

This campaign targets something superficial instead of the root of the problem which is why it won't fix anything.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Is it even necessarily a bad thing for girls to not take leadership?

 

[TheValkyries]

Just kidding lol I don't mean that.

Proceeds to reframe exactly the same sentiment.

If I had the ability to like this post, I would.

 

[TheValkyries]

In seriousness, shouldn't we be highlighting the fact that a girl's natural reaction to being called bossy at a young age doesn't spur on self-confident disagreement/standing up for oneself. Being called bossy doesn't convince them they aren't good enough, it affirms something they have already started to believe to be true based on many other cultural factors. You don't fight this problem by pointing out the negative criticisms and saying "no, you can't do that", even if that effort is largely symbolic and attempting to raise awareness. Criticism never stopped anybody unless they were willing to believe it. Instead you have to fight it by giving young girls something strong to hold onto, a belief in themselves that says "this criticism isn't fair."

 

[Reverb]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Besides, discrimination against women does not exist to a significant extent anymore. The oft-cited compensation statistics count each job the same. Hence, a male doctor could be compared to a female waitress. Single women actually out-earn single men. The entire premise of feminism is to put a vendetta against men in the realm of public policy. Real equality come through self-empowerment, regardless of gender.

A little off topic.

EDIT:

Let's also think about the strong anti-male bias in the judicial system. We get longer sentences, and we get unfavorable judgments in divorce and child support proceedings. We also have no presumption of innocence in rape accusations. (Read this: http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2013/4/4/4182724/falcons-flyover-the-brian-banks-story)

 

[Crux]

Dear God, please tell me that's ironic.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Dear God, please tell me that's ironic.

Would have to seem some real stats but... maybe if you took the average of ALL single men and ALL single women... I mean, more women go to college than men on average.

In the lower income classes, more young men look to rely on on their physical strength to get manual labor jobs, where this often isn't an option to women-- pushing them to pursue greater education.

Then again, pay as a construction worker can pay pretty damn well amongst blue collar jobs... like I said, you'd have to look at data, and it would really matter on how you're defining the parameters...


edit: Also, thinking about it comparing "single men" to "single women" probably is not a good measure, since high worth women are possibly more likely to be single the high worth men-- or it would seem likely in my head without seeing any stats. There's a lot of lurking variables like this that you would want to adjust for in making a fair measure.

 

[Crux]

You're right, if you account for all systematic disadvantage, then the figures are equal.

I was more referring to the "The entire premise of feminism is to put a vendetta against men in the realm of public policy."

 

[Reverb]

You're right, if you account for all systematic disadvantage, then the figures are equal.

I was more referring to the "The entire premise of feminism is to put a vendetta against men in the realm of public policy."

This is not ironic. I, along with many other conservatives, view feminism as such. Through my course study in college, I have become progressively more antipathetic toward feminism. That being said, I support equal rights for everyone, including women.

As for some data on the pay gap (or lack thereof): Please click here.

 

[kd24]

the yt vid for this made it look like a real joke, they should work on their marketing.

 

[_Tonks_]

Nothing says "bossy" more than BANNING a WORD just because YOU don't like it.

itsfromthecomments

Yeah, I mean this whole thing is a big immature. It's like banning the word "Mean" Or "Offensive" Because they can be seen as hurtful or because women can use them to say men use them to overpower them. This is why no one takes Feminist seriously.

 

[BenTheDemon]

You're right, if you account for all systematic disadvantage, then the figures are equal.

I was more referring to the "The entire premise of feminism is to put a vendetta against men in the realm of public policy."

Being a far Leftist, my political friends often disagree with my view of Feminism that is similar to yours. I totally support women's equality. I think it is absolutely absurd that we still haven't reached it yet. But I wholeheartedly reject the idea that women are at a disadvantage in this country in more than men.
(Men are less likely to obtain custody of their kids. Men have to pay child support even if they don't want the child before it's born [women have the choice of abortion]. Men get 40% more jailtime than women for the same crime on average. Men are executed about 10x more often then women. Men are assumed to be sexual perverts in all situations. If a man claims that a woman sexual harassed him, his case is often ignored. And last but not least, a man had breast cancer and went to a hospital that was doing free scans for Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and he was turned down for being a man. There are many more examples, and I know women are statistically disadvantaged in other areas, but I hope I have proven my point that sexism is just as much of a men's issue as a women's issue.

 

[youngjake93]

She is tired of being labelled bossy, so she goes on a mission to boss people into not using the word anymore.
She should either stop being bossy, stop crying about it or lead in a way to earn respect.
She isn't accomplishing any of these by whining to get a word banned. I think she would make more of a difference in how people treated her and perceived female bosses by being a smart thick-skinned respectable leader.

 

[Crux]

Being a far Leftist, my political friends often disagree with my view of Feminism that is similar to yours. I totally support women's equality. I think it is absolutely absurd that we still haven't reached it yet. But I wholeheartedly reject the idea that women are at a disadvantage in this country in more than men.
(Men are less likely to obtain custody of their kids. Men have to pay child support even if they don't want the child before it's born [women have the choice of abortion]. Men get 40% more jailtime than women for the same crime on average. Men are executed about 10x more often then women. Men are assumed to be sexual perverts in all situations. If a man claims that a woman sexual harassed him, his case is often ignored. And last but not least, a man had breast cancer and went to a hospital that was doing free scans for Breast Cancer Awareness Month, and he was turned down for being a man. There are many more examples, and I know women are statistically disadvantaged in other areas, but I hope I have proven my point that sexism is just as much of a men's issue as a women's issue.

If that is your view of feminism, then it is in no way similar to mine.

 

[Nastyjungle]

But I wholeheartedly reject the idea that women are at a disadvantage in this country in more than men.
(Men are less likely to obtain custody of their kids. Men have to pay child support even if they don't want the child before it's born [women have the choice of abortion]. Men get 40% more jailtime than women for the same crime on average. Men are executed about 10x more often then women. Men are assumed to be sexual perverts in all situations. If a man claims that a woman sexual harassed him, his case is often ignored. (im not commenting on the breast cancer thing because i dont know enough about the situation)

ignoring all the other stupid shit being said in this thread (which is a lot), i cant ignore this particular stupid shit

have you ever stopped to consider WHY this is the case? its because of the way the female gender has been lumped into a very specific model of inferiority

men don't get custody of their kids? because women have been historically more or less forced to be the homemaker, meaning they have the most contact with the children, meaning that the female sex has been labeled as the primary direct caretaker

men get longer sentences or executed for the same crimes that women don't? its because men are perceived as a bigger threat because women are perceived as passive

men are assumed to be the sexual perverts? probably because men account for 99 out of every 100 rapists and the groups of people most likely to get raped in any given situation is a woman

im not even going to comment on the abortion thing, it doesnt deserve it

am i saying these disparities are in favor of men? no
am i saying these disparities are fair? no
am i saying these disparities aren't huge issues that need to be addressed? absolutely not
but when certain aspects of a patriarchal system are backfiring on the people who made it, men, and then they get upset and try to blame it on things being tipped in the favor of women, thats complete and utter BULLSHIT... the problem has to be addressed before a solution to these things can be reached, and saying LOOK LOOK WOMEN DO HAVE SOME THINGS BETTER THAN MEN is like the opposite of the point of feminism which is to fight male and female gender disparities


and, did any of you even read what the article said? it isn't literally trying to get the word bossy banned, it's trying to expose the damage a word and a culture that sees powerful women as a threat can do to young girls and how it affects their confidence later in life
"The goal of the "Ban Bossy" campaign is to help girls and women feel more confident and comfortable as leaders."
if you dont think that is an issue that needs to be addressed, then you are clearly not seeing the world in the correct light

by the way benthedemon, saying "im not sexist" is about the lamest thing you could say in trying to prove you are for womens rights, talk is cheap, quit saying misogynistic shit

also, discussions of feminism that consist of 99% males (such as on this website) are a pretty much a joke and a good example of how most of the country is run

 

[Crux]

Not going to lie, I actually verbalised a "you go, sister" in response to that post.

 

[newtonja]

ignoring all the other stupid shit being said in this thread (which is a lot), i cant ignore this particular stupid shit

have you ever stopped to consider WHY this is the case? its because of the way the female gender has been lumped into a very specific model of inferiority

men don't get custody of their kids? because women have been historically more or less forced to be the homemaker, meaning they have the most contact with the children, meaning that the female sex has been labeled as the primary direct caretaker

men get longer sentences or executed for the same crimes that women don't? its because men are perceived as a bigger threat because women are perceived as passive

men are assumed to be the sexual perverts? probably because men account for 99 out of every 100 rapists and the groups of people most likely to get raped in any given situation is a woman

im not even going to comment on the abortion thing, it doesnt deserve it

am i saying these disparities are in favor of men? no
am i saying these disparities are fair? no
am i saying these disparities aren't huge issues that need to be addressed? absolutely not
but when certain aspects of a patriarchal system are backfiring on the people who made it, men, and then they get upset and try to blame it on things being tipped in the favor of women, thats complete and utter BULLSHIT... the problem has to be addressed before a solution to these things can be reached, and saying LOOK LOOK WOMEN DO HAVE SOME THINGS BETTER THAN MEN is like the opposite of the point of feminism which is to fight male and female gender disparities


and, did any of you even read what the article said? it isn't literally trying to get the word bossy banned, it's trying to expose the damage a word and a culture that sees powerful women as a threat can do to young girls and how it affects their confidence later in life
"The goal of the "Ban Bossy" campaign is to help girls and women feel more confident and comfortable as leaders."
if you dont think that is an issue that needs to be addressed, then you are clearly not seeing the world in the correct light

by the way benthedemon, saying "im not sexist" is about the lamest thing you could say in trying to prove you are for womens rights, talk is cheap, quit saying misogynistic shit

also, discussions of feminism that consist of 99% males (such as on this website) are a pretty much a joke and a good example of how most of the country is run

You actually bring up the really good point that women's advantages from the court are just a beneficial byproduct of sexism.
But while I understand that the underlying goal is meant to inspire women to take leader ship roles, a step they are intending on taking is making words like bossy social taboo. I have read her statements and that is what it really sounds like.

And if it isn't at least in part about banning the word bossy, then why is that the campaign slogan? Its like a restaurant named the pizzaria that only sells tacos.

 

[michael]

And if it isn't at least in part about banning the word bossy then why is that the campaign slogan? Its like a restaurant named the pizzaria that only sells tacos.

if you actually read a single intelligent post in this thread, perhaps the one two posts above you, you would know...

edit: rofl i didn't even realise you quoted that post. it generally helps when you read what you're replying to, and yes i realise the irony of this edit lol

 

[BenTheDemon]

ignoring all the other stupid shit being said in this thread (which is a lot), i cant ignore this particular stupid shit

have you ever stopped to consider WHY this is the case? its because of the way the female gender has been lumped into a very specific model of inferiority

men don't get custody of their kids? because women have been historically more or less forced to be the homemaker, meaning they have the most contact with the children, meaning that the female sex has been labeled as the primary direct caretaker

men get longer sentences or executed for the same crimes that women don't? its because men are perceived as a bigger threat because women are perceived as passive

men are assumed to be the sexual perverts? probably because men account for 99 out of every 100 rapists and the groups of people most likely to get raped in any given situation is a woman

im not even going to comment on the abortion thing, it doesnt deserve it

am i saying these disparities are in favor of men? no
am i saying these disparities are fair? no
am i saying these disparities aren't huge issues that need to be addressed? absolutely not
but when certain aspects of a patriarchal system are backfiring on the people who made it, men, and then they get upset and try to blame it on things being tipped in the favor of women, thats complete and utter BULLSHIT... the problem has to be addressed before a solution to these things can be reached, and saying LOOK LOOK WOMEN DO HAVE SOME THINGS BETTER THAN MEN is like the opposite of the point of feminism which is to fight male and female gender disparities


and, did any of you even read what the article said? it isn't literally trying to get the word bossy banned, it's trying to expose the damage a word and a culture that sees powerful women as a threat can do to young girls and how it affects their confidence later in life
"The goal of the "Ban Bossy" campaign is to help girls and women feel more confident and comfortable as leaders."
if you dont think that is an issue that needs to be addressed, then you are clearly not seeing the world in the correct light

by the way benthedemon, saying "im not sexist" is about the lamest thing you could say in trying to prove you are for womens rights, talk is cheap, quit saying misogynistic shit

also, discussions of feminism that consist of 99% males (such as on this website) are a pretty much a joke and a good example of how most of the country is run

You sound like a friend of mine that said that my points are invalidated by the fact that I'm a white, heterosexual (that one was an incorrect assumption), male.
I believe in equality to the utmost extent. But I completely reject the idea that women have it so much worse off than men. You are right on the history. The world has be run by men for a long time, and I'd argue that that's a big reason why a lot of things are fucked up.
And no. Women do not account for 99% of rape victims. Men are, however, less likely to talk about being raped. I know that rape victims are more than 50% women, but when you look at the broader topic of sexual harassment, it's pretty close to an even 50/50. I have been sexually harassed in High School. I have male friends that have been raped by women! And I also have female friends that have been raped by men! I'm not a Feminist. I'm not a Masculinist. I'm an Equality-lover. Disregarding my views based on me being a white man is no different than disregarding anyone else's views for being a minority.
Might wanna add a subtitle to this thread name.

 

[Nastyjungle]

And no. Women do not account for 99% of rape victims. .....but when you look at the broader topic of sexual harassment, it's pretty close to an even 50/50.

you obviously didnt do any close reading of what i said, since i said men account for 99% of RAPISTS, which they do, i said nothing about rape victims except that women are the most targeted, which is true

and that second point is so wrong idk how you can even say that, i dont even know what to say in response- clearly you arent living in the same world i am

i dont think your points are invalid because you are a white male, i think they are invalid because they are garbage- if you were a woman id tell you the same thing

you are a very clear case of people all too commonly seeing the tree instead of the forest

 

[Trax]

but when certain aspects of a patriarchal system are backfiring on the people who made it, men, and then they get upset and try to blame it on things being tipped in the favor of women, thats complete and utter BULLSHIT

So you're fine with systemic inequality based on the fact that the people who created the system share a common gender with those for whom the system is unequal?

I can only assume we can also apply this to race, so by this logic you're ok with black slavery seeing as African countries had it, right? didn't think so (note: this is not intended as a comparison of the issues but a comparison of the logic used).

 

[TheValkyries]

No more. Please. The stupid can't continue. It's coming from all sides. I don't know what to do.

 

[Audiosurfer]

So you're fine with systemic inequality based on the fact that the people who created the system share a common gender with those for whom the system is unequal?

I can only assume we can also apply this to race, so by this logic you're ok with black slavery seeing as African countries had it, right? didn't think so (note: this is not intended as a comparison of the issues but a comparison of the logic used).

but in the case of black slavery, it was whites who made the system designed to enslave blacks and not blacks themselves (since slavery in africa did not lead to blacks being enslaved in america), whereas in the example nastyjungle has, men are a victim of the system that they created and enabled (so the issues nasty was talking about affecting men are a direct result of the system they created to oppress women)

 

[Nastyjungle]

So you're fine with systemic inequality based on the fact that the people who created the system share a common gender with those for whom the system is unequal?

I can only assume we can also apply this to race, so by this logic you're ok with black slavery seeing as African countries had it, right? didn't think so (note: this is not intended as a comparison of the issues but a comparison of the logic used).

lmao is this supposed to be a joke?
i literally just said that the system is messed up and that it should be fixed, that was literally the point of my post
the other point of my post is that blaming women for a system created by men to opress women backfiring on men is bullshit

i shouldnt even bother giving heed to your second line but just for fun ill mention that im sure you know whites created the mass slave trade and that it really has no bearing on this conversation at all

edit: audiosurfer explained that much more eloquently (and faster) than i ever could have, haha