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Abagoora

Discussion in 'Dragonspiral Tower' started by XxbraedonxX, Sep 20, 2010.

  1. Quaily

    Quaily

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    I'm not thrilled about the water/rock typing, but it does give it excellent attacking options. all of its weaknesses really stand out but it does have some nice resists so we'll have to see.
  2. wildfire393

    wildfire393

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    Note: Solid Rock does not eliminate 2x weaknesses or reduce 4x weaknesses to 2x. The damage is decreased by 1/4th, or 75%.

    2x.75 = 1.5
    4x.75 = 3
  3. Elliot Gale

    Elliot Gale

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    Personally, I think the Shell Break set could do with Sturdy and Salac Berry.

    After the Break, you can outrun base 111s (the genies). After the Break and the Salac, you're outrunning base 85 scarf users (Heracross, etc.) regardless of the nature and base 98 speed scarf users with neutral natures (Sazandra).

    Gotta watch out for priority, obviously.

    Edit: Erm... crap. Salac probably isn't obtainable in gen 5 yet, but the idea is there for when it is.
  4. PlatinumDude

    PlatinumDude

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    Since Shell Break also boosts Abagoora's Special Attack, I thought of a mixed set for it (a modified version of the standard Shell Break set in the first post):
    -Shell Break
    -Surf/Hydro Pump
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake/Crunch
    Ability: Solid Rock/Sturdy/Swift Swim
    Nature: Naughty/Naive
    EVs: 192 Atk/64 SpA/252 Spe
    Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
  5. Shadow hunter

    Shadow hunter

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    Nov 23, 2008
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    this guy salvations is solid rock and its bulky and has good atack and aqua jet the mole wont do this guy nothing since it has a low def and cant take aqua jet at all
  6. scarletnova

    scarletnova

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    Who says that this guy can’t be used as a powerful sweeper outside of Trick Room?
    Drizzletoad
    +
    Abagoora @ White Herb
    @ Swift Swim
    192 Atk/64 SpA/252 Spe (EVs copied)
    Naïve Nature
    -Stone Edge
    -Surf
    -Aqua Jet/EQ
    -Shell Break
    After a Shell Break this thing becomes a beast that has
    600 Attack 436 SAtk 716 Speed
    It may not wield the same power that SB Cloyster has but it has a much better coverage.
    correct me if I'm wrong
  7. Forsety

    Forsety

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    If you're using Surf as a wall breaker than I'd probably run Hydro Pump personally, hes not strong enough really with 83 base to be cracking the stuff he needs to. The risk is worth it over Surf's accuracy.
  8. Antar

    Antar
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    I've been thinking about how best to take advantage of Shell Break, and I think the key is to have Abagoora's speed in the "sweet spot" where it'll be slower than most of its opponents to start, but then out-speed them after the Shell Break. That way, it gets in at least one good attack before it has to take a hit at half-defenses.

    The question is which speed tiers it should be shooting for...
  9. GravityZero

    GravityZero

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    With a 32 base stat... How about high?

    With Neutral nature and max speed EVs (163), it's not even gonna outspeed +natured base 100s after a Shell Break (326 vs 328). After 2, it's still not outspeeding scarfed versions (489 vs 492).

    Meanwhile running a +Spd nature and about 240 speed EVs will net you 176 speed, which ties with completely unev'd base 70s, so you can get lucky and lose those speed ties (or move after people who like to add 4 spd EVs). So I suppose 176 is the most strategic speed to run, but you'll hardly ever see the benefit of being in this sweet spot.

    At 176, 1 Shell Break lets you outpace +spdGar and other base 110s (352 vs 350), 2 Shell Breaks lets you outpace scarf+spdGar and other base 110s (528 vs 525).

    <Too bad this turtle's so slow, it could have reached STDory with a slightly higher speed stat. Well, there's always 'gray' version and the possibility of Toise or the new water starter getting Shell Break>
  10. Garagara

    Garagara

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    People seem to forget that this guy has priority in aqua jet. After a shell break, aqua jet's gonna be hitting pretty hard with this guy's attack. And with sturdy, I wouldn't be surprised if you got two shell breaks in.
  11. GravityZero

    GravityZero

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    Aqua Jet does stop Dory in it's tracks, as well as reliably ohkoing most scarfed things faster than that and slaying Heatran.

    Aba will need a +spd nature and a 167 speed stat to take out SDChomp and co since Jet wont work.

    Here's my shot at an Aba:

    Abagoora @ Life Orb
    *Unlimited Flipper Works*
    Solid Rock
    Naive or Jolly Nature / 252 Attack / 212 Speed / 44 Sp. Attack or HP
    - Shell Break - Once outspeeds SD Chomp, Twice outspeeds ScarfChomp
    - Stone Edge - The most powerful STAB Aba's got
    - Aqua Jet - KOs a lot of priority and scarf users if rain's involved. KOs frail pokes without Rain. Dory's a big target.
    - Hidden Power Fire / Earthquake - Coverage

    Jolly EQ's gonna drop a lot of Metagross, Lucario, and Jirachi without trouble, but HP Fire shouldn't be laughed off.

    With a Naive nature, no EVs, and Shell Break, Aba's Sp. Atk stat sits at 404. Before factoring in Life Orb. HP Fire hits everything mentioned before very hard and extends the pain to Skarm and evoMagneton while guaranteeing KOs on Scizor and Nattorei (probably Magnezone as well).
  12. TorchicBlaziken

    TorchicBlaziken

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    It does not make sense to me that the lack of Knock Off and the presence of ChestRest calls for an entirely different EV setup, especially with Sandstorm.
  13. Antar

    Antar
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    This is all true. Still, thanks to Aqua Jet, I think this whole "sweet spot" idea has some merit.

    For example, the results of some calcs (really hope I did these right): Max +Atk, no Def investment Abagoora can survive a Close Combat from Infernape, and then, after the Def. drop, OHKO with Aqua Jet (or it OHKOes before the Close Combat after a Shell Break)

    So there's no need to outspeed Infernape, and we can drop the speed below 158 so that it's slower than no Spe investment T-tar before a Shell Break.
  14. the voice of reason

    the voice of reason

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    Infernape is far from the only threat that is in that speed range, and not all of them can be so easily dispatched. I'm not saying there isn't cause for hitting a sweet spot in speed, but I would advocate some serious scouting before attempting an Abagora sweep. I've seen him used very well on youtube matches, so I know he can work well. But the quality of those matches is... sub-par, to say the least, so Abagora is not in the clear just yet. Take out or highly weaken bulky revengers who aren't weak to water, and he could put your opponent in a very ugly position.

    He's resistant to ice shard and extreme speed, and at least he isn't weak to many of the others. That pretty much leaves mach punch from faster pokes, which there aren't many that fit that description. Vacuum wave isn't common.
  15. Celest

    Celest

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    Skinny Dipper Set is by far his most valuable, basically the same as the set that I came up with after I found he wasn't very effective using Solid Rock... I use it on my rain team, and it DEMOLISHES. It's kinda like running Swords Dance Doryuuzu with Sand Throw.

    JetShell@Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Adamant(+Atk/-SpAtk)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
    Moves:
    ~ Shell Break
    ~ Aqua Jet
    ~ Stone Edge
    ~ EarthQuake

    It's almost the exact same as Doryu, except faster. Seriously, with an Adamant Nature in rain, after Shell Break this thing has 630 Attack, and 716 speed. No choice Scarf pokemon will outrun you. Pokemon with Speed boost will have a hard time too. Nobody wants to eat an EQ off something with 630 attack, let alone a STAB Stone Edge or Aqua Jet. Aqua Jet is definitely used over Waterfall because, even though it's damage is fairly low, it's priority, and beats out other priority attack users. Once you get set up, your opponent is going to have a hard time taking you out.
  16. Jevrath

    Jevrath

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    Just wanted to say that this thing is pretty beastly. I'm using the tankturtle set and after a curse Abagoora has on average effectively knocked out 2-3 of my opponent's pokemon. Of course that could just be because of bad stat spreads/nature selections on my opponent's part, but it's been my experience not to underestimate the power of the ninja turtle.
  17. XxbraedonxX

    XxbraedonxX

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    Updated with CB and Mixed Shell Break sets
  18. Pentao

    Pentao

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    Base 133 physical defense is amazingly high... the shoddy sp. defense can be migitated with Sandstorm bonuses too, a defensive Curse + Aqua Jet with Solid Rock seems pretty decent. Water/Rock may not be the best defensive typing, but the stats are seriously nothing to pass up.

    I think it should also be mentioned that Abagoora stops people from wildly spamming Hihidaruma's Flare Blitz, as it can come in on the 4x resist and then proceed to crush it to bits with Aqua Jet. Hihidaruma's 55 base defense isn't saving it, despite it's high HP, it'll probably be fully invested into attack and speed anyway, giving Abagoora a free kill, or turn of set up. Though you have to watch out for Superpower and Earthquake. There's the occasional Daruma mode with Grass Knot too, but that is virtually non-existant.
  19. LoveHurts

    LoveHurts

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    I run a slightly different set using Sturdy + Liechi Berry.

    Franklin @ Liechi Berry
    Ability: Sturdy
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk/-Sp.Atk)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe/4 Def
    Moves:
    ~Shell Break
    ~Aqua Jet
    ~Waterfall / Earthquake
    ~Stone Edge

    I use it as a lead (not because it's better as a lead, I just tend to put pokemon I'm testing in the lead spot) and it's been working out fairly well. Shell-smash on the turn they set-up entry hazards, survive an attack with Sturdy, activating Liechi Berry, and then proceed to do as much damage as physically possible.

    As a lead, it gets stopped by Taunters, Fake Out leads, and offensive leads with focus sash. But, if you're smarter than me, you're probably not going to send him out before scouting your team first.
  20. Quaily

    Quaily

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    any sandstorm shell break variants will no doubt have to run aqua jet to get rid of dory. Makes things a little trickier since you can either lose the power of waterfall, or get walled by a few things like nattori/empoleon. Now that I think about weather this guy would be good on sand with the water typing in case they have a politoad to change the weather.
  21. sDxRaichu

    sDxRaichu

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    This thing isnt gettin nearly enough attention, like ^ Quaily sed he will make a great weather counter, loving having both rain and sandstorm set up for it, so he will surely fill a niche on any team in 5th gen with the prevalence of weather, hell even against sunny day teams he can switch in on those boosted fire moves all day, although obviously he wont enjoy being matched up against a sunny beamer.

    As for sets, all 3 of his abilities are lovely, but after reading some calcualtions I think swift swim in a lost cause really, your only going to end up being forced to switch by a scarfed special attacker and lose your Shell break.
    Sturdy works beautifully with shell break, there are a couple of videos on YT I can link if anyone wants where hes used as a lead, a gaurenteed shell break is lovely, and the oppurtunity to get 2 if the opposing leads sets up SR = GG.
    His movepool is a litle dissapointing, but nice dual stabs, and a priority (if for example EVd in SpDef and in Sandstorm in conjunction with Curse and solid rock) makes him a monste, definitly on my team
  22. Brophlosion

    Brophlosion

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    I was wondering why people weren't talking about him. I agree. He is an excellent weather counter, and a great shell smasher. I love his typing.
  23. PlatinumDude

    PlatinumDude

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    Isn't Carracosta's typing poor? Water/Rock gives it weaknesses to Grass (4x), Electric, Fighting and Ground (2 very common types). There are Pokemon that share its typing, namely Omastar, Kabutops, Relicanth and Corsola. Offensively, Water and Rock have good coverage, being walled by Empoleon, Poliwrath, Keldeo and Ferrothorn.
  24. danmo96

    danmo96

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    this is a set that i kinda came up with on the spot, so it'll be pretty much pure theorymonning, but hopefully it'll turn out good for anyone who uses it (curse my Wi-fi being down...)
    Carracosta @ Life Orb/Lefties
    Brave (+Atk, -Spe) or Naughty (+Atk, -SpD) 252 HP/128 Atk/128 Def
    Aqua Tail/Waterfall/Aqua Jet
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge
    Curse
    Filler move

    Brave if you don't mind lowering your speed (he's not really gonna be outspeeding anything), Naughty if you don't mind lowering your Special Def (he's not gonna be able to take many SpD hits with that SpDef anyway)
    EVs are to keep him in as long as you can against physical attacks, along with doing as much damage as you can. Item choice depends on whether you prefer doing damage or staying in longer (I'd recommend Life Orb if Special moves are a problem, Lefties if the opponent has Physical attackers).
    Aqua Tail/Waterfall for Water STAB. Choosing which depends on Power vs. Accuracy and Power vs. Flinch chance.
    Rock Slide/Stone Edge for Rock STAB. Again, Accuracy vs. Power, Flinch vs. Higher Crit Ratio.
    Curse for increasing its bread and butter (Atk and Def) and no need to worry about lowering Speed (again, not gonna be outspeeding anything either way).
    Filler move for coverage against whatever you may be worried about.

    Again, just theorymonning, hope it works out well for whoever tries it. any suggestions and criticism are welcome.

    EDIT: okay, i slashed Aqua Jet in with the Water STAB moves
  25. Kefka Palazzo™

    Kefka Palazzo™

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    Instead of Naughty, you could use Adamant :L
    Anyway, aside from the fact that this gets horribly walled by Ferrothorn, you should put Aqua Jet.

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