Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Can we please do Wonder Guard next? My idea is to make Shedinja immune against status conditions and weather effects of the types that can't hit it (Hail, spikes, toxic and leech seed).
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Magma
Guest
Okay everyone, here's the next slate:
(Please be sure to include short justification paragraphs explaining the flavor and logic behind each of your submissions.)
(Please be sure to include short justification paragraphs explaining the flavor and logic behind each of your submissions.)
Evasion increases when confused.
Cannot be forced to switch. Increases chance of encountering Pokemon while fishing.
Reduces the accuracy of a status move to 50%.
Dont worry, we'll get to Wonder Guard soon enough.
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Wonder Skin:
This pokemon heals off any non-volatile status conditions at the end of the turn.
Because the pokemon's skin is Wonder Skin, it is able to heal its status extremely quickly.
Tangled Feet:
All moves aimed at this Pokemon have their accuracy set to 50.
Tangled Feet implies the pokemon stumbling around, meaning that opposing pokemon have a harder time trying to hit it. Therefore, accuracy is lowered.
Suction Cups:
All partial-trapping moves used by this pokemon last 7 turns.
The other item to do this is the Grip Claw. What else lets you grip on to something? Suction Cups.
Edit: Finished all
This pokemon heals off any non-volatile status conditions at the end of the turn.
Because the pokemon's skin is Wonder Skin, it is able to heal its status extremely quickly.
Tangled Feet:
All moves aimed at this Pokemon have their accuracy set to 50.
Tangled Feet implies the pokemon stumbling around, meaning that opposing pokemon have a harder time trying to hit it. Therefore, accuracy is lowered.
Suction Cups:
All partial-trapping moves used by this pokemon last 7 turns.
The other item to do this is the Grip Claw. What else lets you grip on to something? Suction Cups.
Edit: Finished all
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Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
Tangled Feet: This Pokemon's attack, speed and accuracy double when it is confused.
Flavor Concept: Drunkenfists feet!
Suction Cups: Prevents all foes from switching out, excluding Water and Poison types.
Flavor Concept: Suction cups literally sticks to the foe. Water and poison are liquids, and therefore malleable, so they can't be held onto by suction cups.
Wonder Skin: This Pokemon's Special Defense is raised by 50% under status conditions and their effects are ignored.
Flavor Concept: Marvel Scale counterpart with a little boost.
Flavor Concept: Drunken
Suction Cups: Prevents all foes from switching out, excluding Water and Poison types.
Flavor Concept: Suction cups literally sticks to the foe. Water and poison are liquids, and therefore malleable, so they can't be held onto by suction cups.
Wonder Skin: This Pokemon's Special Defense is raised by 50% under status conditions and their effects are ignored.
Flavor Concept: Marvel Scale counterpart with a little boost.
Suction Cups
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns.
Why: Octopi use those things to hunt. Not a compelling argument for Cradily to get the same effect, but eh.
Tangled Feet
The user cannot be hit by Status moves while Confused.
Why: Too confusing to follow, albeit in a specialized way I make no attempt to flavorfully justify. But at least it's not random.
... other than the chance to hit yourself in Confusion.
Wonder Skin
The user cannot be afflicted with a major status ailment by an opponent's move. (Rest, Flame Orb, etc still work fine)
Why: Gods, I don't know why Wonder Skin is supposed to do what it does.
But gameplay wise, it's not "Magic Bounce but worse". Arguably it's "Immunity, Magma Armor, Insomnia/Vital Spirit, Water Veil, and Limber all put together" but we're buffing those anyway.
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns.
Why: Octopi use those things to hunt. Not a compelling argument for Cradily to get the same effect, but eh.
Tangled Feet
The user cannot be hit by Status moves while Confused.
Why: Too confusing to follow, albeit in a specialized way I make no attempt to flavorfully justify. But at least it's not random.
... other than the chance to hit yourself in Confusion.
Wonder Skin
The user cannot be afflicted with a major status ailment by an opponent's move. (Rest, Flame Orb, etc still work fine)
Why: Gods, I don't know why Wonder Skin is supposed to do what it does.
But gameplay wise, it's not "Magic Bounce but worse". Arguably it's "Immunity, Magma Armor, Insomnia/Vital Spirit, Water Veil, and Limber all put together" but we're buffing those anyway.
Tangled Feet
The Pokemon Stumbles when it attacks doing 30% damage and adding 10% recoil(of max HP) to the move(basically intrinsic LO)
Reason: If something has Tangled Feet it's likely to trip. When you trip, you hurt yourself and anyone you might happen to fall on.
Suction Cups
If the Pokemon hits with or is hit by a contact move, the Pokemon it made contact with gets partially trapped(Does passive damage each turn and prevents switching by normal means for a few turns)(Ghosts still can't be trapped)
Reason: If you make contact with Suction Cups you will get stuck on them and potentially hurt yourself trying to get them off.
Wonder Skin
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks
Reason: Wonder Skin just sounds like it would be a counterpart to Filter since to filter means to remove impurities and Wonder Skin means that the skin is doing something wonderful(possibly removing impurities).
Edit: corrected Suction Cups' Mechanics
The Pokemon Stumbles when it attacks doing 30% damage and adding 10% recoil(of max HP) to the move(basically intrinsic LO)
Reason: If something has Tangled Feet it's likely to trip. When you trip, you hurt yourself and anyone you might happen to fall on.
Suction Cups
If the Pokemon hits with or is hit by a contact move, the Pokemon it made contact with gets partially trapped(Does passive damage each turn and prevents switching by normal means for a few turns)(Ghosts still can't be trapped)
Reason: If you make contact with Suction Cups you will get stuck on them and potentially hurt yourself trying to get them off.
Wonder Skin
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks
Reason: Wonder Skin just sounds like it would be a counterpart to Filter since to filter means to remove impurities and Wonder Skin means that the skin is doing something wonderful(possibly removing impurities).
Edit: corrected Suction Cups' Mechanics
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They don't.
Tangled feet:
If this pokemon is hit with a contact move, the next move that the opponent uses has 0.4 accuracy
Reason: someone with a tangled feet falls for a punch, but it doesn't get punched if the other person punches in the same place.
Suction cups:
takes half damage from flying and ground type moves
Reason: various suction cups prevents being blowed by a very strong wind, and can also sustain someone in a earthquake in a single place.
Wonder skin:
the opponent's non-contact move deals 33% less damage on the user.
Reason: a 'wondeful' skin could protect from a long-range shooted thing.
If this pokemon is hit with a contact move, the next move that the opponent uses has 0.4 accuracy
Reason: someone with a tangled feet falls for a punch, but it doesn't get punched if the other person punches in the same place.
Suction cups:
takes half damage from flying and ground type moves
Reason: various suction cups prevents being blowed by a very strong wind, and can also sustain someone in a earthquake in a single place.
Wonder skin:
the opponent's non-contact move deals 33% less damage on the user.
Reason: a 'wondeful' skin could protect from a long-range shooted thing.
Magma
Guest
There were a lot of great submissions this round guys... now let's move on to the voting phase.
PM your votes to me following this format:
desuko
This pokemon heals off any non-volatile status conditions at the end of the turn.
the someone
This Pokemon's Special Defense is raised by 50% under status conditions and their effects are ignored.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be afflicted with a major status ailment by an opponent's move. (Rest, Flame Orb, etc still work fine)
Throbulator36
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks
jellicentispringles
the opponent's non-contact move deals 33% less damage on the user.
This pokemon heals off any non-volatile status conditions at the end of the turn.
the someone
This Pokemon's Special Defense is raised by 50% under status conditions and their effects are ignored.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be afflicted with a major status ailment by an opponent's move. (Rest, Flame Orb, etc still work fine)
Throbulator36
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks
jellicentispringles
the opponent's non-contact move deals 33% less damage on the user.
desuko
All moves aimed at this Pokemon have their accuracy set to 50.
the someone
This Pokemon's attack, speed and accuracy double when it is confused.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be hit by Status moves while Confused.
Throbulator36
The Pokemon Stumbles when it attacks doing 30% damage and adding 10% recoil(of max HP) to the move(basically intrinsic LO)
jellicentispringles
If this pokemon is hit with a contact move, the next move that the opponent uses has 0.4 accuracy
All moves aimed at this Pokemon have their accuracy set to 50.
the someone
This Pokemon's attack, speed and accuracy double when it is confused.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be hit by Status moves while Confused.
Throbulator36
The Pokemon Stumbles when it attacks doing 30% damage and adding 10% recoil(of max HP) to the move(basically intrinsic LO)
jellicentispringles
If this pokemon is hit with a contact move, the next move that the opponent uses has 0.4 accuracy
desuko
All partial-trapping moves used by this pokemon last 7 turns.
the someone
Prevents all foes from switching out, excluding Water and Poison types.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns.
Throbulator36
If the Pokemon hits with or is hit by a contact move, the Pokemon it made contact with gets partially trapped(Does passive damage each turn and prevents switching by normal means for a few turns)(Ghosts still can't be trapped)
jellicentispringles
takes half damage from flying and ground type moves
All partial-trapping moves used by this pokemon last 7 turns.
the someone
Prevents all foes from switching out, excluding Water and Poison types.
Ghoul King
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns.
Throbulator36
If the Pokemon hits with or is hit by a contact move, the Pokemon it made contact with gets partially trapped(Does passive damage each turn and prevents switching by normal means for a few turns)(Ghosts still can't be trapped)
jellicentispringles
takes half damage from flying and ground type moves
PM your votes to me following this format:
Magma
Guest
Sorry for the delay guys (to make up for it... I'll post the new slate tonight.) Here are the voting results.
Wonder Skin
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks (Throbulator36)
Tangled Feet
This Pokemon's attack, speed and accuracy double when it is confused. (the someone)
Suction Cups
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns. (Ghoul King)
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Let's take a few hours to discuss the new abilities before the new slate is posted:
Wonder Skin
The Pokemon takes 75% damage from non-SE attacks (Throbulator36)
Tangled Feet
This Pokemon's attack, speed and accuracy double when it is confused. (the someone)
Suction Cups
The user cannot be forcibly switched. Additionally, an opponent making contact with the user will be trapped for four turns. (Ghoul King)
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Let's take a few hours to discuss the new abilities before the new slate is posted:
- Are any Pokemon more viable thanks to the upgrades?
- Do we need to make any touch-ups/corrections to the winning upgrades before they are added to the archives?
- Throbulator36's Suction Cups submission was very similar to Ghoul King's winning one (and lost in the voting by 1 point)... should we combine the two submissions in any way?
Venomoth got a bit bulkier thanks to Wonder Skin, particularly helpful against most priority moves that would otherwise be the only thing hitting it after enough Quiver Dances. Additionally, Cradily now features better Stall than ever and a pseudo-Shadow Tag, with a set of Giga Drain / Toxic / Stockpile / Recover becoming an excellent set-up for Stall if you can switch it into the right physical move. Quite frankly, though, still nothing with Tangled Feet is useful.
None that particularly stand out. Everything has its function without being too broken or underwhelming.
Doing such a thing would turn Cradily into the epitome of physical-attacking punishment for stall teams, considering how it'll be doing so much passive damage between Suction Cups and Toxic, all while it gets to heal. Considering that Cradily is NU as is and could definitely use a greater niche, I say yes!
I'd love to see Anticipation, Big Pecks, and Zen Mode as our next rebalanced abilities, by the way.
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Tangled Feet
Pidgeot has a gimmicky way to abuse Hurricane (Except it would rather use Physical due to doubled Attack...) just in time for Mega Pidgeot to render the upgrade moot!
Really, the main thing that stands out is the potential for Dodrio to switch in on a Confuse Ray and then, if it doesn't keep hitting itself in its Confusion, murder everything. And ultimately it (And everything else with Tangled Feet) will be held back by two things -firstly, that they can always be haxed to death by their own massively boosted Attack, and secondly the only reliable way to abuse it is to be playing Doubles/Triples and have an ally use Confuse Ray or whatever. (Exception: Spinda and Dodrio do get Trash. Still takes 2-3 turns and is just awful all around)
The first can be fixed by making Tangled Feet allow the user to execute moves even when they hurt themselves (Or simply make it impossible for them to hurt themselves, I guess), but the second point is... well, I suppose people might finally use the Berries that heal the user but Confuse them if their Nature hates that taste? That would be kind of neat, actually.
Wonder Skin
Is mostly not going to save those Pokemon that get it or see use by the Pokemon that get it. Why the heck would Sigilyph take even this version over Magic Guard?
It arguably helps Venomoth, but Venomoth would generally actually prefer Tinted Lens (If it expects to try to sweep on the power of Quiver Dance) or Shield Dust (To block Fake Out flinching, Paralysis side effects, Burn from a Fire Blast, etc, if it intends to Focus Sash Quiver Dance Baton Pass) regardless. Plus it's really easy to hit it with super effective moves -Bug/Poison's weaknesses include favorites like Fire, so Wonder Skin won't do that much to protect it.
Suction Cups
Doesn't save Octilley, alas, but makes Suction Cups much more appealing for Cradily. (Malamar will still always prefer Contrary) Situational pseudo-Shadow Tag to give it time to Stockpile and Leech Seed or Toxic? Heck yes. Really easy to bait a Fake Out user into tripping it in particular, but in general anything that can't handily clear Cradily itself will be afraid to attack into unrelated Pokemon (If its only/best moves are contact) for fear of giving Cradily the time it wants to set up.
Seems an odd thing to do, given that the whole point of voting is to pick the one we want and stick with it. Plus I can't think of a combination of the two that isn't fairly horrifying.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
I was thinking of making the Pokemon with Tangled Feet heal its confusion at the end of the turn, but I thought it'd be too complex. Thrash was exactly what I was thinking about when I made that.
That would be a one-turn massive boost with no actual Speed benefit with a 50% chance of just smacking yourself anyway, but twice as hard. This is, if anything, a downgrade over the actual Tangled Feet.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
The boosts wouldn't be removed if the user healed at the end of the turn.
That's... not even slightly implied by the description you gave.
Cookie Butter
formerly the someone
It's a scraped off idea anyway.
Wonder Skin
Basically the pokemon this benefits most is sigilyph(and venomoth too) but as Ghoul King said it might not be enough to get used; therefore I propose we buff it and filter/solid rock to 50% damage reduction.
Tangled Feet
No pokemon is benefited to the point of becoming viable. buff it to where it can't be immobilized or hurt in confusion.
Basically the pokemon this benefits most is sigilyph(and venomoth too) but as Ghoul King said it might not be enough to get used; therefore I propose we buff it and filter/solid rock to 50% damage reduction.
Tangled Feet
No pokemon is benefited to the point of becoming viable. buff it to where it can't be immobilized or hurt in confusion.
Magma
Guest
I can get on board with this - instead of the Pokemon "hitting itself in confusion," it would "trip over its feet" or "stumble" and just skip a turn instead of doing damage to itself. (Not sure if I'll be able to code this...)
I wasn't clear. We would still stick with your submission as the "base," I was just asking if anyone wanted to make any slight adjustments to it (similar to how we are expanding on the upgraded Tangled Feet.)
How about instead of trapping an opponent for just 4 turns... we put it under partially-trapped effects?
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While discussion continues on Tangled Feet, Wonder Skin, and Suction Cups, let's move on to the next slate:
Opponent cannot lower this Pokémon’s accuracy. The Pokémon ignores evasion boosts of the opponent.
Opponent cannot lower this Pokémon’s Attack.
Opponent cannot lower this Pokémon’s Defense.
Keen Eye
This pokemon's SE attacks do 30% more damage
Reason: If you have Keen Eyes, you can more easily prey upon a weakness
Hyper Cutter
This pokemon's cutting moves do 30% more damage
Reason: The name seems to imply a damage increase to cutting moves
Big Pecks
This pokemon's flying type moves do 30% more damage
Reason: The name seems to imply a damage increase to flying type moves
This pokemon's SE attacks do 30% more damage
Reason: If you have Keen Eyes, you can more easily prey upon a weakness
Hyper Cutter
This pokemon's cutting moves do 30% more damage
Reason: The name seems to imply a damage increase to cutting moves
Big Pecks
This pokemon's flying type moves do 30% more damage
Reason: The name seems to imply a damage increase to flying type moves
Keen Eye Ideas: All moves this pokemon uses have 100% accuracy. All moves this pokemon uses that naturally have 100% accuracy do 1.33x more damage.
All the pokemon who have this ability have relatively tame offensive presence. A slight damage boost could make them more powerful, and allow low accuracy moves like hurricane to see use. This helps pokemon like Swanna and Drapion who rely on Hurricane and Aqua tail. Skarmory could even find a role as a tank.
Big Pecks: Reduces damage of neutral hits by 33%.
Flying types with roost become much bulkier and can pull of utility jobs better. Super effectives still hit hard though so as to not break Mandibuzz. The ability is still defense centered, but much more useful.
All the pokemon who have this ability have relatively tame offensive presence. A slight damage boost could make them more powerful, and allow low accuracy moves like hurricane to see use. This helps pokemon like Swanna and Drapion who rely on Hurricane and Aqua tail. Skarmory could even find a role as a tank.
Big Pecks: Reduces damage of neutral hits by 33%.
Flying types with roost become much bulkier and can pull of utility jobs better. Super effectives still hit hard though so as to not break Mandibuzz. The ability is still defense centered, but much more useful.
Keen Eye
Compound Eyes Clone.
Having a 'Keen Eye' on something means you have a lot of concentration on it. Similar to Mind Reader, it would seem having a lot of concentration on something makes you less likely to miss a move. Both abilities also use the noun 'eyes'.
Hyper Cutter
'Cut', 'Slash' and 'Blade' moves are 20% more powerful (Like an Iron Fists for said moves)
This is just logic, both the name and the majority of Pokemon with the move have blades, claws or something similar that can easily cut things.
Compound Eyes Clone.
Having a 'Keen Eye' on something means you have a lot of concentration on it. Similar to Mind Reader, it would seem having a lot of concentration on something makes you less likely to miss a move. Both abilities also use the noun 'eyes'.
Hyper Cutter
'Cut', 'Slash' and 'Blade' moves are 20% more powerful (Like an Iron Fists for said moves)
This is just logic, both the name and the majority of Pokemon with the move have blades, claws or something similar that can easily cut things.
Aerial Ace, Air Cutter, Air Slash, Cut, Leaf Blade, Night Slash, Psycho Cut, Razor Shell, Sacred Sword, Secret Sword, Slash
Why are people removing Hyper Cutter's immunity to Attack drops when that's literally the most relevant of all stat-down immunities eg Intimidate, including U-turn and Volt Switch Intimidaters. I realize I'm weird for preferring to keep the utility of an Ability, but Hyper Cutter is actually useful as is, and both entries created thus far would be actively weaker than the existing Hyper Cutter the instant anything lowered your Attack -like anything with Intimidate, again. It's not like they're really all that big of boosts when you're Attack isn't being lowered, either...
Keen Eye
In addition to ignoring modifications to the target's Evasion and innate immunity to Accuracy lowering effects, all the user's damaging moves increase hugely in priority (+7, just like Pursuit) against a switching target.
Why: You can't run, you can't hide. Not all that logical, nor all that useful to Sableye (But it's already a perfectly usable Pokemon, and you might use it as a surprise Foul Play KO), but even Pidgeot can force a switch on some targets -and in fact the sheer low-tierness of most of its users makes it not completely overpowered. A lot of the time it's viable to just stay in and wipe them out. Though Keen Eye Skarmory Brave Birding whatever it's scaring out is a pretty horrifying thought,
Hyper Cutter
The user's Attack stat cannot be lowered, and the user ignores increases in the enemy's Defense.
Why: Screw your Cosmic Power whatever, Imma cut you. In practice only Crawdaunt and Kingler are liable to care about changes to Hyper Cutter, unless you made Hyper Cutter hilariously overpowered (Barring Little Cup Trapinch), because Gliscor will probably ignore it for Poison Heal regardless, Pinsir is just going to Mega Evolve if anybody uses it anyway, and same for Mawile who would rather stick with Intimidate prior to Mega Evolving. So I mostly have Crawdaunt and Kingler in mind here -both of them would love to be able to cut right through huge Defense boosts, given that they're main set-up move of choice (Shell Smash) leaves them more vulnerable in the meanwhile and is only a Sword Dance level of boost to their actual offense anyway.
Big Pecks
The user's Defense stat cannot be lowered, and the user ignores increases in the enemy's Attack.
Why: Now Mandibuzz not only rips you up with Foul Play but it laughs off that +6 Attack you Belly Drummed up, loser. But seriously: it's a logical extension, mechanically, of the existing mechanic.
Though I must say I have no idea why Game Freak thinks a pidgeon's breast is particularly difficult to break. Is there some science thing I'm unaware of here?
Keen Eye
In addition to ignoring modifications to the target's Evasion and innate immunity to Accuracy lowering effects, all the user's damaging moves increase hugely in priority (+7, just like Pursuit) against a switching target.
Why: You can't run, you can't hide. Not all that logical, nor all that useful to Sableye (But it's already a perfectly usable Pokemon, and you might use it as a surprise Foul Play KO), but even Pidgeot can force a switch on some targets -and in fact the sheer low-tierness of most of its users makes it not completely overpowered. A lot of the time it's viable to just stay in and wipe them out. Though Keen Eye Skarmory Brave Birding whatever it's scaring out is a pretty horrifying thought,
Hyper Cutter
The user's Attack stat cannot be lowered, and the user ignores increases in the enemy's Defense.
Why: Screw your Cosmic Power whatever, Imma cut you. In practice only Crawdaunt and Kingler are liable to care about changes to Hyper Cutter, unless you made Hyper Cutter hilariously overpowered (Barring Little Cup Trapinch), because Gliscor will probably ignore it for Poison Heal regardless, Pinsir is just going to Mega Evolve if anybody uses it anyway, and same for Mawile who would rather stick with Intimidate prior to Mega Evolving. So I mostly have Crawdaunt and Kingler in mind here -both of them would love to be able to cut right through huge Defense boosts, given that they're main set-up move of choice (Shell Smash) leaves them more vulnerable in the meanwhile and is only a Sword Dance level of boost to their actual offense anyway.
Big Pecks
The user's Defense stat cannot be lowered, and the user ignores increases in the enemy's Attack.
Why: Now Mandibuzz not only rips you up with Foul Play but it laughs off that +6 Attack you Belly Drummed up, loser. But seriously: it's a logical extension, mechanically, of the existing mechanic.
Though I must say I have no idea why Game Freak thinks a pidgeon's breast is particularly difficult to break. Is there some science thing I'm unaware of here?
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Neither of them can learn Shell Smash. Kingler gets SD and Agility and Crawdaunt gets SD and DD. Other than that, nice submissions.
Hyper Cutter
This Pokemon's contact moves gain +2 crit rate.
Who's ready for auto-crit Night Slash and Crab Hammer?
A critical has similar utility to GK's proposed Hyper Cutter, ignoring the user's attack drops and target's defense boosts, while also giving a 50% Damage boost. While this isn't a massive step up in power for Crawdaunt, who normally used Adaptability boosted attacks anyway, it still is a step up, and it gives a more notable boost to Kingler and offensive Gliscor, the only other FE Pokemon with that ability that don't Mega Evolve.
... could've sworn Kingler learned Shell Smash, though for Crawdaunt I was just kinda-sure.
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