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Ability ratings

Discussion in 'Pokémon Showdown!' started by Zarel, Sep 16, 2011.

  1. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    For assistance in writing AIs and the like, I've added ratings to abilities in my sim.

    Of course, I've never laddered or really played competitively, so I'm probably off in terms of how I rate abilities. Do any of you want to go through and give better ratings for these abilities?

    Here are my current ratings:

    Code:
    Adaptability: 3.5
    Aftermath: 3
    Air Lock: 3
    Analytic: 1
    Anger Point: 2
    Anticipation: 1
    Arena Trap: 5
    Bad Dreams: 2
    Battle Armor: 1
    Big Pecks: 1
    Blaze: 2
    Chlorophyll: 3.5
    Clear Body: 2
    Cloud Nine: 3
    Color Change: 2
    CompoundEyes: 3.5
    Contrary: 4
    Cursed Body: 2
    Cute Charm: 2
    Damp: 1
    Defeatist: -1
    Defiant: 2
    Download: 4
    Drizzle: 5
    Drought: 5
    Dry Skin: 3
    Early Bird: 2.5
    Effect Spore: 2
    Filter: 3
    Flame Body: 2
    Flare Boost: 3
    Flash Fire: 3
    Flower Gift: 3
    Forecast: 4
    Forewarn: 1
    Friend Guard: 0
    Frisk: 1.5
    Gluttony: 1.5
    Guts: 4
    Harvest: 4
    Healer: 0
    Heatproof: 2.5
    Heavy Metal: 0
    Honey Gather: 0
    Huge Power: 5
    Hustle: 3
    Hydration: 4
    Hyper Cutter: 2
    Ice Body: 3
    Illuminate: 0
    Illusion: 4.5
    Immunity: 1
    Imposter: 5
    Infiltrator: 1
    Inner Focus: 1
    Insomnia: 2
    Intimidate: 4
    Iron Barbs: 3
    Iron Fist: 3
    Justified: 2
    Keen Eye: 1
    Klutz: 1.5
    Leaf Guard: 3
    Levitate: 3.5
    Light Metal: 1
    Lightning Rod: 3
    Limber: 2
    Liquid Ooze: 1
    Magic Bounce: 5
    Magic Guard: 4.5
    Magma Armor: 0.5
    Magnet Pull: 5
    Marvel Scale: 3
    Minus: 0
    Mold Breaker: 3
    Moody: 5
    Motor Drive: 3
    Moxie: 4
    Multiscale: 4
    Multitype: 5
    Mummy: 1
    Natural Cure: 4
    No Guard: 4
    Normalize: -1
    Oblivious: 0.5
    Overcoat: 1
    Overgrow: 2
    Own Tempo: 1
    Pickup: 0
    Pickpocket: 1
    Plus: 0
    Poison Heal: 4
    Poison Point: 2
    Poison Touch: 2
    Prankster: 4
    Pressure: 1
    Pure Power: 5
    Quick Feet: 3
    Rain Dish: 3
    Rattled: 2
    Reckless: 3
    Regenerator: 4.5
    Rivalry: 2.5
    Rock Head: 3
    Rough Skin: 3
    Run Away: 0
    Sand Force: 3
    Sand Rush: 4
    Sand Stream: 5
    Sand Veil: 3
    Sap Sipper: 3
    Scrappy: 3
    Serene Grace: 4
    Shadow Tag: 5
    Shed Skin: 3
    Sheer Force: 4
    Shell Armor: 1
    Shield Dust: 2
    Simple: 4
    Skill Link: 4
    Slow Start: -2
    Sniper: 1
    Snow Cloak: 2
    Snow Warning: 4.5
    Solar Power: 3
    Solid Rock: 3
    Soundproof: 2
    Speed Boost: 4.5
    Stall: -1
    Static: 2
    Steadfast: 1
    Stench: 0
    Sticky Hold: 1
    Storm Drain: 3
    Sturdy: 3
    Suction Cups: 3
    Super Luck: 1
    Swarm: 2
    Swift Swim: 4
    Synchronize: 3
    Tangled Feet: 1
    Technician: 4
    Telepathy: 0
    Teravolt: 3
    Thick Fat: 3
    Tinted Lens: 4.5
    Torrent: 2
    Toxic Boost: 3
    Trace: 3
    Truant: -2
    Turboblaze: 3
    Unaware: 2
    Unburden: 3.5
    Unnerve: 1
    Victory Star: 2
    Vital Spirit: 1
    Volt Absorb: 3
    Water Absorb: 3
    Water Veil: 1.5
    Weak Armor: 0
    White Smoke: 2
    Wonder Guard: 5
    Wonder Skin: 1
    Zen Mode: -1
    
    edit: the scale, reproduced here:


    Code:
    -2: Very detrimental
          The sort of ability that relegates Pokemon with Uber-level BSTs
          into NU.
        ex. Slow Start, Truant
    
    -1: Detrimental
          An ability that does more harm than good.
        ex. Defeatist, Normalize
    
     0: Useless
          An ability with no net effect on a Pokemon during a battle.
        ex. Pickup, Illuminate
    
     1: Ineffective
          An ability that has minimal effect. Should never be chosen over
          any better ability.
        ex. Pressure, Damp
    
     2: Circumstantial
          An ability that can be useful in certain situations.
        ex. Blaze, Insomnia
    
     3: Useful
          An ability that is generally useful.
        ex. Volt Absorb, Iron Fist
    
     4: Very useful
          One of the most popular abilities. The difference between 3 and 4
          can be ambiguous.
        ex. Technician, Intimidate
    
     5: Essential
          The sort of ability that defines metagames.
        ex. Drizzle, Magnet Pull
  2. monkfish

    monkfish what are birds?
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    AIs? You, sir, have just piqued my interest.

    [this is like the fifth edit ive made to this post i should probably have read the js file in the first place]

    to me the ratings look fine as they are..!
  3. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    Out of 5, though they range as low as -2. There's a scale at the top. (I also added it to my first post)

    There are clearly drawn lines between each rating; I think the only questionable differences are between 1 and 2, and between 3 and 4.
  4. prem

    prem failed abortion
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    i dont like where klutz is tbh because of how amazing it can be. its not really detrimental because it lets lopunny do so many crazy things (trick a choice band after attack and such). but outside of that this looks pretty good
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    So would abilities be higher ratings become the default ability? If thats the case, gone are the days where you lose a game because you used sand veil Dugtrio! Or instantly losing because you used Flash Fire Ninetails!

    Suggested Changes

    Magic Guard: 4 > 5
    Multiscale: 4 > 5
    Snow Warning: 4 > 5
    Speed Doubling abilities (Sand Rush, Chlorophyll, Swift Swim): 4 > 5
  6. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Certain pokemon should always default to one ability (serene grace vs nature cure blissey. Water Absorb vs Volt Absorb Lanturn, Pressure > Rock Head on Aerodactyl for more examples.)

    Pressure should be a 2 (switch a suicune into stone edge 4 times and they can't use the move any more).

    Gluttony falls right into the "circumstantial use" category (wheb pinch berries are implemented).

    Harvest isn't that good. Should be 2-3.

    You list Iron Barbs as 3 and Rough Skin as 2. They are identical, and should be 2.

    I kind of don't like technician/skill link as a 4 as a lot of pokemon don't have any use for it while everything could use intimidate or serene grace or regenerator but I'm not really sure. Someone else weigh in.

    Contrary is another one of those "borderline" abilities but I don't have a problem with it being 3 or 4.

    Chlorophyll belongs at 3, maybe 4.

    After a bit of thought, simple belongs at 4. It was kind of startling at first since it's only on bad pokemon, but a simple gyarados would be amazing. So yeah, it's right where it belongs.
  7. Darkmalice

    Darkmalice Like a facepalm, but better
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    Heavy Metal shouldn't be -1. It should be 0. The only fully-evolved Pokemon that receive the ability are Aggron and Bronzong. Aggron takes max damage from Grass Knot / Low Kick regardless of whether it uses that ability or not, where as Bronzong takes 120 instead of 100 base power. There is no other negative effect. Grass Knot is rare, where as Low Kick is seldon seen making the effect extremely negligble on Bronzong (especially considering that it resists Grass Knot). It is definitely not comparable to Defeatist, which is also -1. Also, Heavy Metal makes the move Heavy Bomber better, and both Aggron and Bronzong have access to it. Not that it's worth using, but the negative effect of Heavy Metal is so negligble, that it could be compared to the negligible benefit of an improved Heavy Bomber, even if it is still a bad move with the ability.

    Speed Boost should be 5 instead of 4. Look at how much better Blaziken and Sharpedo are this generation.

    I think Moody should have a rating of 6, above everything else, because that ability was game-breaking to the point to which we decided to ban it in all of our metagames, Ubers included.

    Also.
    This should definitely be taken note of. To add to this, some abilities suck on certain Pokemon whilst being awesome on others. Would it be possible to have different ratings for each ability based on which Pokemon uses it? For example, Reckless on Rhyperior would be worth 1 or even 0 (it just gets Double-Edge and Take Down), where as it would be worth 3 or 4 on Staraptor.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Fun fact: Double-Edge is a gen III tutor move and is thus illegal on DW Rhyperior.
    (lol)
  9. Jibaku

    Jibaku Not taking FS requests atm.
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    Judging from the fact that Telepathy is set to zero, I'm assuming this list is only relevant for singles. Is this correct?

    Illusion should be about 3 IMO, since as Zoroark has shown it's not that gamebreaking. Also considering the amount of loopholes in which one can use to identify an Illusion or not, this ability is not anywhere as game defining as Drought / Moody /etc.

    But this kind of leads me to another point: Are we deciding these abilities in a vacuum (i.e based on their effects alone?), or are we considering the Pokemon as well? For instance, Reshiram can use TurboBlaze well, smashing Heatran apart with its Fire-type attack as well as OHKOing Forretress through Sturdy, but Zekrom can't take advantage of Teravolt and it merely becomes a situational ability.
  10. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    Hmm.

    1. Yes, this is for singles.

    2. The abilities are rated based on their effects alone. Next, I'll introduce finer-grained rating ("Rock Head is 3 if user has a recoil move, 0 otherwise"), but for now I'd like ratings that ignore which pokemon get them.

    And now for specific abilities:

    1. Iron Barbs was higher than Rough Skin because I remember reading that Rough Skin dealt 1/16 damage, but apparently that was only in gen 3.

    2. Pressure is marginally useful, but so are the other abilities being rated 1. I don't think it's good enough for a 2.

    3. For the same reason, while Gluttony isn't entirely useless, I think it's on par with other 1-rated abilities. Is there a usage of it I'm missing?

    4. Harvest is as good as Hydration: Immunity to status and single-turn Rest in weather. Harvest also takes up your item slot, but it's also more versatile.

    5. Speed Boost Yanmega isn't that much better than Tinted Lens Yanmega, so I don't think they should be 5 and 4.

    6. While not gamebreaking per se, Illusion's lack of popularity has to do with PO's broken implementation of it (and my engine will introduce proper support for it). It's at 5 because I would run Illusion over, say, Intimidate if given the option.

    Revised ratings:

    Code:
    Adaptability: 3.5
    Aftermath: 3
    Air Lock: 3
    Anger Point: 2
    Anticipation: 1
    Arena Trap: 5
    Bad Dreams: 2
    Battle Armor: 1
    Big Pecks: 1
    Blaze: 2
    Chlorophyll: 3.5
    Clear Body: 2
    Cloud Nine: 3
    Color Change: 2
    CompoundEyes: 3.5
    Contrary: 3.5
    Cursed Body: 2
    Cute Charm: 2
    Damp: 1
    Defeatist: -1
    Defiant: 2
    Download: 4
    Drizzle: 5
    Drought: 5
    Dry Skin: 3
    Early Bird: 2.5
    Effect Spore: 2
    Filter: 3
    Flame Body: 2
    Flare Boost: 3
    Flash Fire: 3
    Flower Gift: 3
    Forecast: 4
    Forewarn: 1
    Friend Guard: 0
    Frisk: 1.5
    Gluttony: 1
    Guts: 4
    Harvest: 4
    Healer: 0
    Heatproof: 2.5
    Heavy Metal: 0
    Honey Gather: 0
    Huge Power: 5
    Hustle: 3
    Hydration: 4
    Hyper Cutter: 2
    Ice Body: 3
    Illuminate: 0
    Illusion: 4.5
    Immunity: 1
    Imposter: 5
    Infiltrator: 1
    Inner Focus: 1
    Insomnia: 2
    Intimidate: 4
    Iron Barbs: 3
    Iron Fist: 3
    Justified: 2
    Keen Eye: 1
    Klutz: 1.5
    Leaf Guard: 3
    Levitate: 3.5
    Light Metal: 1
    Lightning Rod: 3
    Limber: 1
    Liquid Ooze: 1
    Magic Bounce: 4.5
    Magic Guard: 4.5
    Magma Armor: 0.5
    Magnet Pull: 5
    Marvel Scale: 3
    Minus: 0
    Mold Breaker: 3
    Moody: 5
    Motor Drive: 3
    Moxie: 4
    Multiscale: 4
    Multitype: 5
    Mummy: 1
    Natural Cure: 4
    No Guard: 4
    Normalize: -1
    Oblivious: 0.5
    Overcoat: 1
    Overgrow: 2
    Own Tempo: 1
    Pickup: 0
    Pickpocket: 1
    Plus: 0
    Poison Heal: 4
    Poison Point: 2
    Poison Touch: 2
    Prankster: 4
    Pressure: 1
    Pure Power: 5
    Quick Feet: 3
    Rain Dish: 3
    Rattled: 2
    Reckless: 3
    Regenerator: 4.5
    Rivalry: 2.5
    Rock Head: 3
    Rough Skin: 3
    Run Away: 0
    Sand Force: 3
    Sand Rush: 4
    Sand Stream: 5
    Sand Veil: 3
    Sap Sipper: 3
    Scrappy: 3
    Serene Grace: 4
    Shadow Tag: 5
    Shed Skin: 3
    Sheer Force: 4
    Shell Armor: 1
    Shield Dust: 2
    Simple: 4
    Skill Link: 4
    Slow Start: -2
    Sniper: 1
    Snow Cloak: 2
    Snow Warning: 4.5
    Solar Power: 3
    Solid Rock: 3
    Soundproof: 2
    Speed Boost: 4.5
    Stall: -1
    Static: 1
    Steadfast: 1
    Stench: 0
    Sticky Hold: 1
    Storm Drain: 3
    Sturdy: 3
    Suction Cups: 3
    Super Luck: 1
    Swarm: 2
    Swift Swim: 4
    Synchronize: 3
    Tangled Feet: 1
    Technician: 4
    Telepathy: 0
    Teravolt: 3
    Thick Fat: 3
    Tinted Lens: 4.5
    Torrent: 2
    Toxic Boost: 3
    Trace: 3
    Truant: -2
    Turboblaze: 3
    Unaware: 2
    Unburden: 4
    Unnerve: 1
    Victory Star: 2
    Vital Spirit: 1
    Volt Absorb: 3
    Water Absorb: 3
    Water Veil: 1
    Weak Armor: 0
    White Smoke: 2
    Wonder Guard: 5
    Wonder Skin: 1
    Zen Mode: -1
    
  11. dbolt

    dbolt

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    Analytic is missing. Should be 1.
  12. Delta 2777

    Delta 2777 Machampion
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    Magic Bounce is probably the best ability in the game (aside from Wonderguard), should be 5. I'd also make Magic Guard a 5 as its superior to Regenerator. Unaware should be at least a 3 if not higher (Unaware >>>> Sturdy).
  13. undisputed

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    yeah seconding magic guard being a 5. very good ability, makes pokemon like reuniclus considerably tougher to take down
  14. Hipmonlee

    Hipmonlee Have a rice day
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    Uhh, are these metagame specific? Because swift swim is just as an ability a lot better in ubers where it can be used with drizzle.

    Sand Rush is a definite 5 in ou.. I wouldnt make magic guard a 5.
  15. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    These are specific to the aesoft Random Battles metagame.

    Swift Swim is only a 4 because you're not guaranteed to have rain. Same for the other weather-speed abilities. Chlorophyll is 3.5 because they're all grass-types, so they have to deal with an even more intense weakness to Fire, and their STABs don't get boosted by the weather.

    Magic Guard is only slightly superior to Regenerator; I think they should both be 4.5.
  16. Nails

    Nails EAST 2014
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    Disagree with magic guard being a 5. It's not as game changing as "Drizzle" or "Pure Power" or "Shadow Tag". It's really really good, but it's just not on the same level. It's the best ability of the sub 5's, but it's really not on the same level as any of the other 5's. If you look at the 5 abilities, they're all abilities that make shitty pokemon usable (Politoed, Azumarill, Octillery), and on a good poke would be incredibly broken. Magic Guard isn't that amazing.
  17. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Why am I so shit
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    I believe Gluttony's 1 due to the abscence of pinch berries, right?


    Limber should be 3, at the very least 2. Paralysis might be the best status condition second to BW Sleep (and lol RBY Sleep/Freeze); the only reason Limber isn't used is because everyone who gets it sucks at using it.

    I could make a case for Liquid Ooze deserving 2, as I find it helpful when facing Ferrothorn or some shitass Subseeder. I can see why no one would support me in this one, though. Still seems relevant to me in a vacuum, as Giga Drain and Drain Punch aren't gimmick moves anymore.

    Why is Flame Body 2 and Static 1? Again, what makes Static "suck" is its distribution; if something like Zapdos had it, we'd see it a lot more.

    Unburden as 4... I can't see why, at least not if Gluttony is 1 as both are less-than-stellar nowadays because there's no pinch berries to be used. Even so, Unburden would probably be 3 at most because it surely isn't "one of the most popular abilities" (as only Drifblim and Sceptile have it).

    Water Veil makes you immune to bs WoW !__! That's deserving of a 2, in my book. Same thing as Static, it's bad because only shitass pokémon get it.


    Levitate should be 4, in my opinion. In fact, it's weird you say the difference between 3 and 4 may be ambiguous and then make a 3.5 tier...


    Magic Bounce for 5, as Delta stated.

    No Guard is a 5 in a vacuum, for obvious reasons (Sheer Cold).

    Snow Warning deserves a 5, for it's one of the defining factors of UU (or maybe it is Froslass, who knows). Now, if we are only taking OU into account then eh.


    ...And Illusion isn't correctly implemented? Never heard of that. It copies the pokémon's name, nickname and sprite, vanishes after being hit, and always copies the sixth pokémon in the party. Is there something I'm missing here?
  18. undisputed

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    correct me if I'm wrong but I thought static just had a chance to paralyze you on contact. Are you thinking lighting rod in comparison to flash fire?
  19. Fatecrashers

    Fatecrashers acta est fabula
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    30% chance for paralysis upon contact is not that bad at all; how many times have your mons gotten fucked over by a flame body burn from volcarona? it's like that
  20. Mario With Lasers

    Mario With Lasers Why am I so shit
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    Brainfart, I meant Flame Body there. I mix up those two since the ADV days.
  21. SoT

    SoT Yes please!
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    I agree with the static and flame body comparison. same concept ability wise, one is just more "viable" since the pokemon that have it are better suited for standard ou play.
  22. reyscarface

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    up speed boost to 5, look at what it did to blaziken

    also imo contrary should be at the very least a 4. contrary serperior is insane in dream world, and it has shit coverage with its other moves. imagine contrary latios, contrary heatran, contrary terrakion, contrary victini, yeah.
  23. Zarel

    Zarel Not a Yuyuko fan
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    The answer to your questions, as implied by my first post, is because I'm not a competitive battler and have no idea how good or bad some of these abilities are.

    Again: Will somebody please tell me what Gluttony is useful for? Belly Drum sets?

    I'm going to assume the availability of pinch berries for these ratings. I'm also going to ignore OHKO moves, so No Guard stays where it is.

    From what I hear, PO shows the position and HP of all your opponent's pokemon, which BW doesn't do.

    So in PO, all you have to do to figure out your foe's Gengar is Zoroark is to notice that Zoroark is in position 1 and Gengar is in position 6.

    Anyway, changes:

    Gluttony 1 -> 1.5
    Limber 1 -> 2
    Static 1 -> 2
    Unburden 4 -> 3.5
    Water Veil 1 -> 1.5
    Contrary 3.5 -> 4
    Magic Bounce 4.5 -> 5

    Levitate is a type immunity ability. Ground is especially useful to be immune to, hence the 3.5, but Lightningrod is an immunity that boosts SpA, and it's only 3.

    Speed Boost didn't make Ninjask, Sharpedo, or Yanmega Uber, and Tinted Lens Yanmega was viable in gen 4, so it stays at 4.5 unless you provide a more specific argument than "but Blaziken!" which also had Drought Ninetales going for it.

    Hail is often considered the "worst weather". 4.5 is fair enough to Snow Warning. We're not talking about specific metagames here (other than the aesoft Random Battle metagame).

    "One of the most popular abilities" is just a benchmark for the 4 rating. Its actual title is "Very Useful", and anything on par with Technician in usefulness goes there, regardless of whether or not it's actually popular.
  24. Moo

    Moo Professor
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    The ability to rate Pokemon / Sets would be awesome too!
    And Items
  25. Mari

    Mari

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    Why do you give Normalize -1? Hitting Ground types, Volt Absorb users, Lightning Rod users and Motor Drive users with Thunderwave and Volt Switch and Sap Sipper users with Spore/Sleep Powder/Grasswhistle and Stun Spore can be a huge advantage.

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