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Abomasnow (Analysis)

Discussion in 'Uploaded Analyses' started by zdrup15, Jan 16, 2011.

  1. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Pokedex page

    QC Approvals: Fireburn and Iconic

    GP Approvals: Komodo and Flora

    [Overview]

    <p>Without its ability, Abomasnow would certainly be overlooked by many players. However, it is the only Pokemon with Snow Warning, making it a staple on hail teams. Also, since hail is the least common weather, it does get some use on balanced teams as an answer to more dangerous weather conditions.</p>

    <p>When you look past its ability, what is found is a Grass / Ice Pokemon with seven weaknesses and only four resistances. It does have decent Attack and Special Attack which, when coupled with its base 60 Speed, instantly bring Choice Scarf to mind. It has very powerful STAB attacks such as Blizzard and Wood Hammer that can make up for its only decent offenses. When you look at its defenses, they are only average, but when coupled with key resistances to Water-, Grass- and Electric-type attacks, a specially bulky set can be valuable. Its access to useful support options such as Leech Seed also helps mold defensive sets together. All in all, while Abomasnow may seem controversial, its niche as the only fully evolved auto-hail inducer makes it a fierce competitor on the battlegrounds.</p>


    [SET]
    name: Choice Scarf
    move 1: Blizzard
    move 2: Grass Knot / Wood Hammer
    move 3: Hidden Power Fire
    move 4: Earthquake
    item: Choice Scarf
    ability: Snow Warning
    nature: Hasty
    evs: 16 Atk / 252 SpA / 240 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>With a Choice Scarf, Abomasnow reaches 354 Speed, allowing it to surprise slower foes such as max Speed Thundurus and Tornadus and revenge kill efficiently. Its STAB Blizzard has perfect accuracy under hail and deals massive damage to any Pokemon that doesn't resist it. Grass Knot is the preferred Grass-type attack because it offers great power against heavy foes and doesn't have recoil, allowing Abomasnow to switch in more times. Hidden Power Fire covers Steel-types such as Scizor and Ferrothorn that resist Abomasnow's STAB moves. For the remaining Pokemon like Heatran and Magnezone, the snowman has Earthquake to destroy them. However, these Pokemon commonly hold Air Balloon, so they will have to suffer some prior damage in order to pop it.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Hasty nature and 240 Speed EVs allow Abomasnow to outspeed Thundurus and Tornadus by one point without hurting its offenses; max Special Attack maximizes Blizzard's, Grass Knot's and Hidden Power Fire's damage output; and the remaining EVs go into Attack to give Earthquake a small boost. Wood Hammer is an option as it hits much harder than Grass Knot against lighter opponents. The main reason it isn't recommended is because Abomasnow's health will go down too fast without recovery. If you use Wood Hammer over Grass Knot, switch the EVs to 140 Atk / 128 SpA / 240 Spe, as this provides Abomasnow with enough power to OHKO Swords Dance Scizor (the most common Scizor variant in this metagame alongside the Choice Band set) if Stealth Rock is on the field. If you prefer a physical Grass STAB but dislike the recoil of Wood Hammer, Seed Bomb can be used instead. However, 60 Base Power is a great difference and may not be worth the lack of recoil.</p>

    <p>With a Choice Scarf, Abomasnow can revenge kill many dangerous threats that rely on weather to outspeed the snowman; Excadrill, Venusaur, and Shiftry are just a few examples. Although Abomasnow has Earthquake and Hidden Power Fire, it is still a good idea to remove Steel-types via other methods so that Abomasnow can spam Blizzard and Grass Knot more easily. As such, Magnezone is an ideal partner since it can trap and kill Steel-types without much trouble.</p>

    [SET]
    name: SubSeed
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Leech Seed
    move 3: Blizzard / Ice Shard
    move 4: Protect / Wood Hammer / Focus Punch
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Snow Warning
    nature: Calm / Sassy
    evs: 252 HP / 172 Def / 84 SpD

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>This set takes a completely different approach to the snowman by taking advantage of its decent defenses and typing. As the name suggests, Substitute and Leech Seed are the most important moves. Substitute provides Abomasnow with an immunity to status, while Leech Seed slowly reduces the opponent's health while restoring the snowman's own health. Blizzard is a great move to have on Abomasnow as it is powerful and acts as a reliable STAB under hail. When Protect is used alongside Substitute and Leech Seed, it can be very annoying because it allows Abomasnow to recover the health it loses from creating Substitutes.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>A Calm nature and the given EV spread provide Abomasnow with good overall bulk to maximize the snowman's potential against the Grass-, Water-, and Electric-types that it is supposed to stall. Wood Hammer may seem like an odd suggestion, but it gives Abomasnow a strong STAB move for when it isn't behind a Substitute. Focus Punch can be used if Abomasnow's job is to get rid of Tyranitar and the common Steel-types that like to switch in. When running Focus Punch, a Careful nature should be used as it retains Abomasnow's power without losing its bulk. Taking into account the speedy nature of the metagame, Ice Shard has some uses on the last slot, giving Abomasnow some priority to abuse. A Sassy nature can also be used with an EV spread of 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD to allow other weather inducers to outspeed Abomasnow in order to preserve hail while maximizing its special bulk.</p>

    <p>As the goal of this set is to stall, entry hazards are a must as Leech Seed tends to cause switches. Toxic Spikes make the opponent's Pokemon suffer increasing damage each turn, and with Substitute and Protect, it will do wonders draining your opponent's health. Forretress, Roserade, and Tentacruel are the best partners to set them up since they have great bulk and, in the latter's case, great synergy with the snowman.</p>

    [Other Options]

    <p>Abomasnow has plenty of STAB moves to choose from. Ice Punch is its strongest physical Ice STAB, but it is inferior to Blizzard. Giga Drain is a possibility for the SubSeed set to restore more health, so it can be used over Protect (Blizzard can't be replaced or Grass-types wall the set completely).</p>

    <p>Outside of the sets in this analysis, Abomasnow doesn't pull off anything else as effectively. It can run a physical attacker moveset with Swords Dance, Wood Hammer, Ice Punch, and Earthquake, but it doesn't have the Speed or power to pull this off.</p>

    [Checks and Counters]

    <p>Abomasnow's main counters are Pokemon whose typing allow them to resist its STAB moves; Steel- and Fire-type Pokemon are therefore the best counters. They can come in on even Abomasnow's coverage moves and threaten the snowman out with their STAB moves. Bronzong, Jirachi, Metagross, and Volcarona are great examples of such Pokemon.</p>

    <p>If one takes into account the fact that Abomasnow's offenses are only average, bulky walls that aren't hit super effectively by its STABs can come in and set up on it. Blissey is one of the examples; it can come in and, with access to Wish and Flamethrower, threaten the snowman or attempt to outstall it. Chansey can also come in on Abomasnow, but its sub-par Special Attack means that if the snowman sets up a Substitute and avoids Toxic, it can only attempt to outstall Abomasnow.</p>

    [Dream World]

    <p>Abomasnow gets Soundproof as its Dream World ability, though Snow Warning is the main reason to use Abomasnow, so it shouldn't be considered as an option.</p>
  2. (makeup)

    (makeup) kevin
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    IMO Giga Drain > Grass Knot as it has a power boost and an accuracy increase, I think Giga Drain should be the main slash in that slot. Plus, the SubSeed set (which should probably be named SubSeed, just sounds better IMO but I'm not one to judge) should probably Ice Beam or Ice Breath over Blizard because it's more stall oriented, so it's very possible Blizzard will run out of PP.

    Plus, here is an animated sprite if you want it [​IMG]
  3. Venser

    Venser

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    I would add a mention of Ice Shard on the Choice Scarf set. It may not seem very good on a choice set but with all these Dragons running around (many of whom can outspeed a +1 Abomasnow) priority ice is very nice to have.

    Also, mention how it can go head-to-head with many weather abusers and setters and come out on top. Will post more after school.
  4. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Ice Breath has no merit over Blizzard on the Choice Scarf set. It should be removed.

    Could you please explain the reasoning behind the EVs on the defensive set? Does the recovery granted by the "Leech Seed / Leftovers number" outweigh the defensive boost received by maxing HP? Is there a reason for the 64 EVs in Special Attack?

    Unless there are suitable answers to all of these questions I would much rather run max HP and max SpD. The Calm nature should be changed to Sassy (with a note about using a 0 Speed IV) and Wood Hammer should be listed alongside Substitute. In this weather-centric metagame, having a lower Speed stat than Hippowdon means that your weather will take priority over all others. This is particularly important with the widespread use of Doryuzu, Landlos, and rain sweepers. Wood Hammer is also necessary for weakening, or KOing, Politoed and Tyranitar as they switch-in. Elimination of opposing weather is a large factor in the outcome of games in the 5th generation and Wood Hammer helps to obtain that objective.
  5. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    See the status please. I've only taken it yesterday and I'm finishing another one first.
  6. Stellar

    Stellar
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    Jack of All Trades

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    Placeholder status doesn't mean that you are unable to take suggestions or are immune to scrutiny. It would be much more efficient to hash out the details before you being writing.
  7. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Sorry if it didn't sound like it but I want as much criticism as I can get. I'm just not editing it yet.

    I'll playtest your suggestions.
  8. Engineer Pikachu

    Engineer Pikachu Good morning, you bastards!
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    I see two reasons for Ice Breath to go over Blizzard. The first one would be PP, which isn't that big, seeing as people still prefer Fire Blast over Flamethrower. The second one would be CM/Recover/Dragon Pulse/Roar Latias, but that's quite situational.
  9. Muse

    Muse

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    Thanks for taking this over for me. I can see you kept basically, everything from my analysis. xD I've been way to busy to do something as "big" as this, with school and my cosmetology classes eating all my remaining time that i used for going on here.
  10. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I've kept everything from your analysis because I'm finishing Goruugu's first. I'm on his last set and in one or two days I should start this one.

    I just changed some things to make it look better for the people to comment.
  11. Cooky

    Cooky

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    Agreeing with Stellar in that the Subseed set should maximise special bulk over physical. Abomasnow has good resistances to Electric, Water and Grass which are primarily represented by special moves and he should be abusing this, especially given that he is weak to Fighting, Rock, Bug and Steel, offensive types which are very common on physical attackers. This helps it counter and set up on threats like Starmie, Suicune, Latias, Jolteon and Zapdos (which always runs Lightningrod over Heat Wave these days).

    Also I feel that Focus Punch should be upped from AC status to a slash over protect, Tyranitar is much more common in this new metagame and is Abomasnow's number one switch in. It also hits his other common switch ins, the Steel clan basically, hard such as Heatran, Lucario etc. Definitely keep Blizzard though it has a much better damage output than Ice Beam.

    For reference Focus Punch with a -ve Atk nature deals:

    98.2% - 115.8% to Tyranitar which is a definite OHKO with SR or Hail
    53.1% - 63% to Heatran - definte 2HKO
    85.8% - 101.4% to Lucario and has a chance to OHKO with SR and Hail damage

    Edit: you should probably mention that the Scarfed set is a decent revenge killer for slightly weakend Doryuuzu who's a massive threat to Hail teams.
  12. tophway

    tophway

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    Been using Aboma a lot and recently have been testing Focus Punch on the subseed set. I think its worth including that the only way to really make use of it is to choose sub on your first turn instead leech seed, and this really hurts his longevity. Longevity is a huge deal for Aboma because really the reason youre using him is to keep hail up (aka keep sand, rain and sun down.) Considering Aboma loses 25% from SR, then 25% from sub, and x% whatever attack you may have switched into, it can be a hard sell to click sub over leech seed.

    The plus is that its a huge payoff if Ttar switches in, which when facing SS teams is a very common choice.

    Ive also used the scarf set and I second the inclusion of Wood Hammer. Without a bulky nature he wont be walling any swift swimmers anywasys, so the recoil is definitely worth eliminating Politoed which GK just cant do.
  13. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Ok I think the analysis is ready for the QC checks.
  14. Fireburn

    Fireburn BARN ALL
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    Deslash Ice Beam on the Scarf Set, you don't need it ever really when you have 100% accurate STAB Blizzard which is a big selling point of Abomasnow.

    The 64 SpA EVs on the SubSeed set don't look like they do anything. I
    d just throw them in HP or the defenses unless they do something important.

    Other than that looks alright.

    QC APPROVED (1/2)
  15. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I still need a QC Approval to start writing this.
  16. Iconic

    Iconic
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    i hate snow

    QC Approved 2/2
  17. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    This analysis is written and ready for GP checks.
  18. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    Why are there 'Team Options' headings for every set? You only need to put the teammates underneath Additional Comments, as that is where all the extra information goes.

    Furthermore, you need a separate, general Team Options section at the end, above Optional Changes.

    These issues need to be addressed before this can be grammar checked.
  19. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    I made two because the two sets have different teammates but I guess I can do two different paragraphs in the end.
  20. bugmaniacbob

    bugmaniacbob Floats like a Butterfree, stings like a Metapod
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    You misunderstand. Both sets need teammates and counters under the additional comments tag. The Team Options section is reserved only as a separate section for teammates that work well with ALL variants of Abomasnow. If you want an example, just look at any on-site analysis.

    EDIT: Seems fine now. Post a link to this thread in the Grammar-Prose Queue thread to make it eligible for GP checks.
  21. zdrup15

    zdrup15
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    Sorry for that but with Golurk I didn't have this problem.

    Well, at least now I know the right way to write these.

    Thanks
  22. Komodo

    Komodo I have a custom title?
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    GP check 1/2

    Show Hide


    Red
    is to remove
    Blue is an edit

    There are a LOT of changes here, so be careful when editing them in.
    [​IMG]
  23. Tacket

    Tacket

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    Ninetales with Drought will literally murder Abomasnow. Someone with the most amount of weaknesses in all of Pokemon is not meant for OU. We were being generous by putting him in BL.
  24. El_Sargento

    El_Sargento

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    Celebi, Tyranitar... A lot of weaknesses is not "automatic UU/NU", you know.
  25. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
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    To stack (and partially entertain/counter) up on Sargento's statement, the UU and OU tiers are based on usage, hence their titles, so just because Abomasnow has so many weaknesses doesn't automatically make him an instant UU or BL. If he's OU, fine, but BL is basically a pool for too-powerful/questionable UU threats. Besides, we haven't even made the UU tier yet. Just remember, official tiers are "based off usage", not usefulness (Ubers isn't a tier by definition).

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