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Abomasnow (Physical Attacker) [QC 3/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Delko, Feb 27, 2012.

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  1. Delko

    Delko
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    [​IMG]
    Abomasnow

    [SET]
    name: Abomasnow (Physical Attacker)
    move 1: Ice Shard
    move 2: Wood Hammer/ Seed Bomb
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Leech Seed / Earthquake
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Snow Warning
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    <p>Comments</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The EVs and moves</p>

    <p>Teammates</p>

    Why this set deserves to be on site:

    - The main selling point it has over the mixed attacker is the added bulk, which allows it to switch into moves much easier.
    - And unlike SubSeed this one actually packs a punch, can revenge kill DD dragons with Ice Shard and Wood Hammer/ Seed Bomb also hits a good amount of pokemon relatively hard.
    - Leech Seed + Protect (+ Hail damage) is still annoying and provide some recovery.
    - Hail is underrated weather and needs more love.

    Additional comments
    - 188 HP EVs give maximum Leech Seed + Leftovers recovery.
    - 68 EVs in SDef makes it easier to take special hits, but they can be added to Spe as well to outspeed the likes of Jellicent etc.
    - Maxing out HP is also a viable option since that also gives a Leftovers number.
    - Max attack to make Ice Shard as strong as possible, Wood Hammer/ Seed Bomb also become pretty strong.
    - Wood Hammer is stronger but Seed Bomb doesn't give recoil.
    - Leech Seed + Protect give Abomasnow a way to heal itself. Protect can also be used to scout and stall for 1 turn of Hail damage.
    - Earthquake is an option too to hit Heatran, Ninetales, Chandelure and Jirachi etc hard. It can be used over either Leech Seed or Protect. This will make Abomasnow able to hit all other weather-starters.
    - Life Orb or Expert Belt can be used too but comes at the cost of survivability, same can be said if one opts to run max speed and less bulk.

    Teammates and Counters
    - Jirachi and Scizor can take every hit Abomasnow has to offer and hit back hard in return with their Steel and Bug STABs. CB Scizor has to be careful not to switch into Leech Seed though as 2 turn of Leech + Hail damage will deal a good amount.
    - This Abomasnow set can't do much against Ferrothorn and Skarmory, who can just set up their hazards or deal a big chunk of damage with their Steel or Flying STAB.
    - The likes of Ninetales, Chandelure and Heatran beats Abomasnow without Earthquake.
    - Tentacruel makes a good teammate, it can take Fire, Bug, Steel and Fighting moves that trouble Abomasnow, it also provides Rapid Spin support and can lay Toxic Spikes which makes Leech Seed + Protect even move annoying.
    - Heatran works too, it can lay down SR, take Fire-type moves and provide an answer for Scizor and Jirachi, Skarmory and Ferrothorn.
    - Gliscor is also a good option, it can take on the strong Fighting-type pokemon, and can somewhat take Rock moves. Gliscor also handles Physical Jirachi and most Scizor sets pretty good, and with Taunt it also shuts down Skarmory and Ferrothorn.
    - A Scald burn can be quite unfortunate so a cleric might be a good idea too.
  2. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    :V

    Anyway, I'd slash Earthquake somewhere on this set, preferably over Seed Bomb (Honestly, I would just forgo Leech Seed + Protect for EQ / Seed Bomb, but whatevs) -- Seed Bomb is really weak and, imo, only deserves an AC mention. With the attack investment, Abomasnow can now mow down Tentacruel and Heatran without breaking a sweat, making Earthquake really useful in regard to supporting Abomasnow's teammates.
  3. Delko

    Delko
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    That was embarrassing, obviously fixed ;)
  4. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    Very true lol. I tried something similar to this using Earthquake over Protect and it worked pretty well
  5. blunder

    blunder

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    I also agree with Earthquake, and maybe put focus punch in ac for when you predict something?
  6. The Truth

    The Truth

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    Bandwagon!

    Earthquake is really strong on this set. It lets it take out stuff like Heatran on the switch-in, which is nice because those fire-types coming in against Abomasnow can be tough for hail to handle. I would slash it with the Grass move, because they provide much of the same coverage and Abomasnow really needs Leech seed if it wants to stick around and keep that weather up. In my opinion, Earthquake is useful enough for Abomasnow to be taken out of AC and slashed on the set.
  7. Mynism

    Mynism

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    my shit :)
    *Tyranitar

    Mention the EB and LO advantages (Landorus, Tyranitar, and add calc of LO Ice shard against dragons/grass. Mention that one of the biggest Protect point is scouting and is especially useful against Voltturn team. I also think EQ gotta stay in AC since it can be used over 2 slashs (looks better imo)
  8. dcae

    dcae naughty list

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    I agree with above comments, Earthquake should get a slash with Wood Hammer and Seed Bomb placed in AC. Ground + Ice gives good coverage, while people can opt to use STAB Wood Hammer. The loss of power is huge if you use Seed Bomb, because Abomasnow still has Leech Seed + Protect to gain recovery, so the recoil isn't as big of a problem. Maybe if you go for LO, then perhaps run Seed Bomb so the recoil doesn't become huge.
  9. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
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    No, no, no. Earthquake should definitely be slashed AFTER a Grass-type STAB move, because a) STAB is more reliable, and b) Earthquake is really only good for sun teams and Steel-types, not much else, whereas Grass-type moves are great for Water-types (common), Ground-types (fairly common), and Rock-types (OK, not that common, but you see my point).
  10. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Very well-written Delko. The reason why I was hesitant to give this a quick approval was because it seemed like a slight deviation from the SubSeed set with a more offensive inclination and without a Substitute.

    Abomasnow in general seems like a mix-and-match sort of mon that can pull off an offensive set, a more utility set, or a mix of both. We already have the first two categories on-site, so I guess this set would be a good example of a hybrid set. So I will approve this. I haven't really talked this over with other QC members, so they may have a different opinion, though.

    On to the analysis. There is not much to correct. Add Skarmory and Ferrothorn under Teammates and Counter, since unlike the other sets this Abomasnow cannot touch them.

    Unless those SpD EVs have any specific purpose, just max Abomasnow's HP. This gives Abomasnow 384 HP, which is also a leftovers number.

    Thanks, Delko!

    QC Approved (1/3)
  11. Delko

    Delko
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    Alright, thanks Pocket. OP is updated.
  12. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Delko you missed this bit :o

    Are those SpD EVs really meaningful? From quick calcs I have not seen a significant difference between max HP and your EVs. Max HP would be better in this case.

    EDIT: No, Omicron, leftovers number is divisible by 16. (HP / 16) + 1 is to somewhat mitigate the damage from sand, poison, Stealth Rock, etc. while being closest to leftovers number. Delko's current EVs result in an HP of 368, which is a leftovers number (and so is 384). I agree that if he wants to better deal with residual damage, he should add another 4 EVs in HP for 369. However, if it's solely leftovers number we are talking about, then 368 is no better than 384 in turns of maximum recovery / turn.
  13. Omicron

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    Actually a Leftovers number is a number that is divisible by 16 + 1, meaning that it needs to be 385 HP, but I suppose that's trivial information, just wanted to point that out.
  14. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    This set is beastly

    QC APPROVED (2/3)
  15. AccidentalGreed

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    Amazingly, I played somebody who used this set yesterday. Although the battle was in my favor at the end, I can confidently say that this set is pretty effective (motherfugging Hail and Protect and Ice Shard...).

    [​IMG]

    QC Approved [3/3]

    Go forth and prosper.
  16. Delko

    Delko
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    Alright thanks.

    @ Pocket: I'll mention the alternative EV-spread of max HP in AC, but for now I'll put it in Speed which lets you outspeed Jellicent, Tyranitar etc.

    I'll write this soon.
  17. jrrrrrrr

    jrrrrrrr wubwubwub
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    You definitely need to add Speed EVs to this. It doesn't even outspeed Min Speed Tyranitar or Politoed. Why else would you use this set unless you were trying to wreck the other weather starters, the #1 switchins to 'Snow? There's already an Expert Belt set on the site that does what this one does except it has way more offensive potential, so you need to emphasize what this one does best. Which is beat the other weather starters, especially Politoed which your extra HP lets you switch into. That's also why I think Earthquake really needs to be on this set as a main option because Ninetales owns this set otherwise. When you use Abomasnow your biggest problem is the other weathers, not random pokemon like Chandelure that you mentioned. Hell, EQ even gives Abomasnow a recoil-less option against TTar.

    So Earthquake I feel is necessary to both make this set more effective and differentiate itself from the other Abomasnow sets. Otherwise I feel like this is just a slower version of the Expert Belt set with fewer offensive options.
  18. Delko

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    Well, I guess you can use 84 Speed to outspeed bulky Politoed, but that one can't do anything against Abomasnow and Ninetales will always be faster anyway. Standard Tyranitar has either a -Spe nature or no investment in Speed at all, meaning Abomasnow is, again, faster. I don't see speed being that important here actually, and investing in Abomasnow's bulk will fit better.
    I'll slash Earthquake in with Leech Seed then, just to catch Ninetales on the switch.
  19. JellyOs

    JellyOs

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    [SET]
    name: Abomasnow (Physical Attacker)
    move 1: Ice Shard
    move 2: Wood Hammer/ Seed Bomb
    move 3: Protect
    move 4: Leech Seed / Earthquake
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Snow Warning
    nature: Adamant
    evs: 188 HP / 252 Atk / 68 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]

    <p>When looking at Abomasnow's stat spread, physical attacker isn't the first thing that jumps into one's mind. Despite its oddity, the Frosted Tree Pokemon can work an extremely effective set that focuses on wearing the opponent down while retaining more bulk than a mixed set would let you. The set's main selling points are capabilities to pack a massive punch with priority Ice Shard, rip out chunks of the opponent's health with Wood Hammer or Seed Bomb and set up Hail reliably due to more bulk than other Abomasnow sets.</p>

    <p>Abomsnow can do a great deal of damage utilizing its STAB moves to revenge or KO a slower opponent. Ice Shard is one of the reasons this set is so effective; being able to revenge Dragon- and Ground- ypes so easily is a great talent. It can severly dent, if not OHKO, Latios, Latias, Dragonite, Salamence, Landorus, and Gliscor making the tree a great support to teams weak to those Pokemon. Wood Hammer is a powerful STAB move great for heavily damaging a neutral opponent, although the recoil can sometimes be undesired. If that is the case Seed Bomb is also an acceptable option to run instead. Protect is a great move in general for stalling the opponent and for scouting while also making Abomasnow's Leech Seed startagey even better. Protect and Leech Seed, in tandem with Hail and Leftovers, give an excellent way of damaging the opponent while recovering your own health. If one finds this unpreferable for their own uses, Earthquake is a good option to hit and KO some of Abomasnow's more common counters. Incoming, or unsuspecting, Pokemon that come in on the tree such as Heatran and and Ninetails will be hit extremely hard by a stray Earthquake. If one chooses to run Earthquake they will also gain the advantage of hitting all weather starters for serious damage.</p>

    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

    <p>The given EV spread allows for maximum bulk while still retaining some speed, enough to outspeed most Tyranitar and Jellicent. 188 HP EVs also gives a convienant number for Leftovers recovery and Leech Seed. HP can be maxed out, also a Leftovers number, to provide better bulk, although Abomasnow will miss the speed. The Attack EVs are self-explanitory, as this Abomasnow wants to hit as hard as possible. An item swap is also viable for more power. A Life Orb can be used to make attacks much mor epowerful, but it is generally unadvised due to the recoil severely hampering Abomasnow's longevity. If you want a bit of both worlds, Expert Belt is also a good item, providing more power to Ice Shards and not depleting HP.</p>

    <p>Steel-types can cause a lot of trouble for the snowy tree. Jirachi and Scizor are very notable examples of that, as they can take any attack (bar Earthquake for the former) and either heal the damage or KO Abomasnow, respectively. Choice Band Scizor must be wary of switching into Leech Seed though because two turns of Leech Seed damage and Hail can deplete his health quite a bit. Other noticable Steels that wall Abomasnow are Ferrothorn and Skarmory, who can deal massive amounts of damage with either Steel- or Flying-type attacks. In addition to Steels, Abomasnow must be wary of Fire types, as they have a 4x super effective STAB and resist both Grass and Ice. Notable examples of these Pokemon are Chandelure, Ninetails and Heatran. As far as teammates go, Tentacreul is an excellent one. He can take the super effective Fire, Bug, Steel and Fighting moves Abomasnow has trouble with as well as being able to remove entry hazards via Rapid Spin. Tentacruel can also add poison support through Toxic Spikes to aid a Leech Seed and Protect strategy. Heatran is also a good partner because it can lay down Stealth Rock, provide an answer for various Steel-types, and take Fire-type blows Abomasnow hates. Gliscor lies in the same realm, although he can take Fighting-type attacks unlike Heatran. Gliscor can also run Taunt to deal with Skarmory and Ferrothorn better. Finally, as this set is purely physical, a Burn will cripple this set for a match so clerics can provide helpful support for Abomasnow.</p>


    (I took the write-up from Delko)
  20. Fatecrashers

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    wtf post a new thread
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