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Pokémon Abomasnow

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by The Poker, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. The Poker

    The Poker

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    I have lurked the Uncharted Territories forum since the begin of its inception, just as i have lurked similar forums on smogon from the release of BW on.

    However every day i check forum search, hoping to see an Abomasnow thread only to be dissapointed time and again. This has led me to drastic steps, thus i registered here to open the thread myself.

    [​IMG]
    Name: Abomasnow
    Type: Grass / Ice
    Ability: Snow Warning / Soundproof (DW)
    Base Stats: 90 / 92 / 75 / 92 / 85 / 60
    MEvo Type: Grass / Ice
    MEvo Ability: Snow Warning
    MEvo Stats: 90 / 135 / 95 / 150 / 95 /30
    MEvo Stats: 90 / 132 / 105 / 132 / 105 / 30


    I have battled in UU mainly for fun the last generation, seeing how weather got nerfed i have high hopes for the Yeti to become UU as well, despite his new status as a Mega Evolution.

    This far i have tried a purely physical build, to maximise the damage output of his frost shard.

    Ev: 252 HP, 252 Att, 4 Sdef Adamant

    Iceshard
    Earthquake
    Seed Bomb/ Wood Hammer
    Protect

    The big idea is to come in on something and set up your disadvantegous weather and scout for their super effective moves (which against the Yeti there are quite a few) with protect while harming them for a miniscule bit of their HP with hail. After seeing their response proceed to attack with powerful stab moves, or switch to a counter. The crucial part is, that with the mega stone you can protect and rack up passive damage as well as switch attacks, which wasnt possible with his previous choice builds. His bulk is also quite nice if he doesn't fall prey to his massive amounts of weaknesses. But as mentioned, this is where protect comes into play.

    His ability has proven to me quite useful against enemy weather setters as well as other mega evolutions, as those essentially lack passive regeneration.

    A reliable rapid spinner such as Hitmontop proves essential to this mon. As repeated switching into stealth rocks is very detrimental to him.

    I assume Abomasnow shines in a dedicated trick room team with a brave anture, or as a special attacker as well, but i have not yet gathered enough expirience with those sets, espacially trick room is something i rarely tried before.

    Also, keep in mind that he will surely still regain his old role as an automatic hail inducer for 8 turns while holding his weather stone.

    I hope my two cents about him as well as my non-native-speaker english don't fall short for the standart of this site. Feel free to correct me where mistakes were made.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2013
    Sōusuke Aizen likes this.
  2. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Notable about Mega Abomasnow is that unlike most Megas, it GAINS over LO carrying variants of its previous forms in turns of power. Significantly. And it may be stronger than Choice Specs variants on the special side.
  3. The Poker

    The Poker

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    His power boost is significant. Combined with his abysmal speed he has a good shot as a trick room sweeper, who can fall back to his stab priority in a pinch.

    I have made the expirience, that (for now) not many opponents anticipate a Mega Abomasnow. The reason could be that he still has his other role as a (longer) wheather setter. Or maybe everyone is just busy trying out those other cooler megaevos ^^.
  4. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    Even with the weather nerf, I think Abomasnow is strong enough to smash things in the face with old-school sets that have been greatly improved because of absolutely obscene boosts to offenses and usable defensive improvements. That drop in speed is a shame, but Abomasnow really didn't outspeed very much in the first place, it has STAB priority with 135 base Attack, and the trade-off is more than worth it.

    Mixed attacker, anyone?

    Mega Abomasnow (Mixed Attacker)
    Abomasnow @ Abomasite
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpAtk
    IVs: 0 Spd
    Nature: Brave
    Ability: Snow Warning
    - Blizzard
    - Earthquake / Focus Punch
    - Giga Drain / Wood Hammer
    - Ice Shard

    You rarely see mixed attackers with maximum investment in both offenses, but you rarely see Pokemon with offenses as strong as Mega Abomasnow's with such a worthless Speed stat. On a Trick Room team, though, this thing can and will wreak havoc. Use something slow to set up Trick Room and U-turn out, switch in (Mega) Abomasnow, evolve and destroy something with a now blistering fast, 100% accurate STAB Blizzard and go to town. That looks glorious.
    Luigifan likes this.
  5. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    Yeah, it sorta seems like a waste to try going fully physical here, considering physical normal Abomasnow has the Speed (despite how little it has...) and tools to outrun weather starters. Agreed with taking advantage of its base 150 Special Attack, which can result in a mixed set with Ice Shard.

    EDIT: and oh, look, somebody already posted one.
  6. The Poker

    The Poker

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    The Mixed Attacker Set is the way to go, i just checked the stats i copy pasted from your research thread without fully realizing the numbers, seeing as serebii listed a significantly lower satk (132). Updating.
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
  7. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    The traditional SubSeed that was probably Abomasnow's best set last generation seems somewhat viable too, because it has buffed defenses as well. The high Speed that usually accompanies great SubSeeders isn't here (in fact, Abomasnow is the slowest user of this combo in the game) and it can't use Leftovers, but it might work. Especially because nothing particularly enjoys a monstrous Ice-type STAB, especially the Grass-types that usually try to mess up this strat.

    Mega Abomasnow (SubSeed)
    Abomasnow @ Abomasite
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 SpAtk
    Nature: Careful / Sassy
    Ability: Snow Warning
    - Leech Seed
    - Substitute
    - Blizzard / Ice Beam
    - Giga Drain / Earthquake / Focus Punch

    Abomasnow is tied for having the most weaknesses in the game (with seven, many of which are extremely common and/or up-and-coming to counter the introduction of the new Fairy-type), which is unfortunate for a defensive set. However, it also has resistances to four common types (Electric, Ground, Water, and Grass), giving it a chance to come in on something and start setting up. The four moves listed are the most obvious: Leech Seed + Substitute allows for a form of recovery and residual damage, Blizzard is 100% accurate and monstrously powerful, and Giga Drain allows for more recovery for a Pokemon that has no other way to do so. However, the slashes are there for a reason: Ice Beam is an option if you're worried about the weather nerf and hail running out while you sit there behind a Sub. Earthquake is an option if you want to use Abomasnow's fantastic mixed coverage, along with the fact that nothing in the game resists Ice/Ground coverage besides Shedinja and Surskit (the former of which is hilariously OHKO'ed by Snow Warning or Leech Seed, and the latter which I hope no serious player every uses). Focus Punch is mostly inferior to these two options simply because it lacks STAB and recovery like Giga Drain or the coverage of Earthquake, but SubPunch is always interesting and it is by far Abomasnow's strongest physical option besides Wood Hammer, whose recoil is undesirable. Being unable to run Leftovers, however, makes Giga Drain by far the best option.
    Edgar81539 likes this.
  8. 3heartschall

    3heartschall

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    I am trying to use a Mega-Abomasnow in doubles. What you guys think? I used to use Focus sash/ abomasnow. But now, since it got more bulky maybe I could use defensive sets + Mixed (with Ice shard..)
  9. The Poker

    The Poker

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    Just battled a bunch of players with mega lucarios and noticed that their bullet punches wich they love to throw only take out half of my hp, while i can ko them with earthquake. seems to me that i and them underestimated abomasnows bulk (max hp investment). They shouldve gone straight for the close combat.

    Updating OP with the subseed set. Thanks again azureleaf.
    Psylink likes this.
  10. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
    is a Contributor Alumnus

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    I can see this thing being very dangerous in UU. Its offensive stats rival that of Kyurem-C, and it has pretty fantastic bulk as well. Although Hail is pretty much a shit playstyle this generation because of the nerf, Mega Abomasnow can use Hail to its advantage by firing off very strong Blizzards. Although it's slow and has a pretty bad defensive typing, I think it has a lot of things going for it that could potentially make it a good Mega for a decent amount of UU teams. Ice Shard, 100% accurate Blizzards, great movepool, and above average bulk makes this thing quite a threat indeed.
  11. unfixable

    unfixable

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    Anyways, Abomasnow will for sure get a rise in usage imo. It has great bulk and attacking skills, really great improvement.
  12. dende5416

    dende5416

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    Congrats on joining the family!

    Abomasnow was one of my favorite additions of its generation, but its number of weaknesses, combined with the 4x weakness to fire, makes it hard to use and bring out into battle. With that being said, I think the mixed-attacked variation would make a great revenge killer/Clean-up sweeper to step in once you've baited out potential sweepers that could destroy him. And spin support for removing the pesky SRs, if present.
  13. Kur0ki_s3npuu

    Kur0ki_s3npuu

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    Are you sure it's a 150 SpA? Serebii says his stats are 132 Atk and SpAtk.
  14. dende5416

    dende5416

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    Not saying it is in this case, but all of Serebii's stuff is hand entered, and there's been a number of mistakes in recent days on Serebii. Best to wait a week or so for stat confirmation from him.

    I haven't cough one myself to experiment with it yet :/
  15. radica

    radica

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    I feel like though Abom and Mawile might not see play in OU it will for sure see solid amount of play in VGC 13.
    lucariojr likes this.
  16. Rayquaza_

    Rayquaza_

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    Only hail stall was nerfed, just like all other forms of weather stall. Hail offense is still viable and assuming Drizzle+SS and Excadrill will be allowed in Gen 6, a hail inducer is the safest way to counter rain and sand offense at once since Drought inducers are at extreme disadvantage against them.
  17. GreatEclipse

    GreatEclipse

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    Protect should be used over Substitute on the defensive set. Abomasnow has always been too slow, and forced out by too many things, to make an effective sub-seeder.
  18. dende5416

    dende5416

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    wait a minute...

    No special attack specialists?

    Run Modest, maybe...

    - Blizzard
    - Energy Ball/Giga Drain (I left Solar beam out since it'd be depowered in hail)
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball/Earthquake/Water pulse (after December 25th)

    Just real simply taking the stronger attacking stat and running with it, with Giga Drain providing recovery or energy ball if you just want that tiny bit more power, blizzard destroying everything in the hail, and the last being left for coverage based on what you lack coverage for on the rest of your team.
  19. The Poker

    The Poker

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    Looks like there has been some great developement regarding the stealth rock problem. If your team doesn't rely much on them you can defog them.
    This is great news for our ice type, who also has an other source of passive damage of his own. Now he doesnt neccessarily need to be paired with a rapid spinner, pairing him up with a defogger should work just as fine. Good users among others seem to be Skarmory and Scizor. Special mention goes to Mandibuzz for resisting hail and having good support options with the buffed knock off and whirlwind.

    Ill update the OP with the special set of dende. let me know if something changes in the setup.

    GreatEclipse : ill slash protect to the subseed set. I assume this is the one you meant.

    Kur0ki_s3npuu : Serebii has corrected his base stat assumption to match the ones in the research thread. So i guess those are correct. False Alarm, Serebii still has other stats listed. Can anyone confirm wich stats the real ones are?
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2013
    Psylink likes this.
  20. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    Good point.

    Mega Abomasnow (Special Attacker)
    Abomasnow @ Abomasite
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
    Nature: Modest / Quiet
    Ability: Snow Warning
    - Blizzard
    - Giga Drain / Energy Ball
    - Focus Blast
    - Shadow Ball / Earthquake

    This set hits an in-between between its defensive and offensive sets, giving up its physical power for quite a bit more bulk. 150 base Special Attack and a Modest nature allows Mega Abomasnow to hit a tremendous 438 Special Attack, meaning that a 100% accurate, base 110 STAB will put a fair dent in many things. Its coverage helps as well; Ice / Grass / Fighting / Ghost hits over 70% of ALL Pokemon for super effective damage. Choosing between Giga Drain and Energy Ball is a simple matter of longevity vs. power.

    Replacing a Modest nature with a Quiet one and using Earthquake over Shadow Ball is a very viable option, as it gives up the ability to hit Shedinja (who is wrecked by Snow Warning anyway) and just a little bit of (completely unusable) Speed for more wallbreaking power and improving super effective coverage from over 70% to over 75%.
  21. 56k

    56k

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    This thing makes hail so much more useable than before. The power increase for blizzard and wood hammer is amazing. He also takes much much less damage from gyro ball, making ferrothorn and forretress targets for switching in. If you ratchet down Aboma's speed with 0ivs and a -nature, ferro does along the lines of 54.2 - 64.17% with no investment on either side. With 100 EVs in defense it's 48.59 - 57.94%
  22. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    Unfortunately, overall weather nerfs don't help it with hail teams. Mega Abomasnow is unable to hold Icy Rock, meaning that its teammates will only have four turns at most to use hail. It's also the weakest weather condition, doing nothing but residual damage to non-Ice types (which are very weak defensively anyway) and upping Blizzard's accuracy to 100% (which is very poor outside of its weather). Snow Warning, at best, means that Abomasnow itself can use 100% accurate blizzards and chip away at the opponent; hail teams really haven't gained that much, and have probably been nerfed even more.
  23. dende5416

    dende5416

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    No, but I think the weather nerf actually helps Abomasnow. Hail teams suffered from the fundamental flaw of having the entire team weak to fire and/or ice attacks. Now, Abomasnow can move into combat, stir hail, move through 5 turns of sweeping with boosted blizzard, and then step back out having bloodied the other team pretty well.
  24. azureleaf17

    azureleaf17

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    But the original argument was not about Abomasnow itself, it was about hail in general. Hail helps Abomasnow, yes, but it doesn't make the weather condition itself better, which was what the original post seemed to imply. The fact that Abomasnow itself got better is unquestionable, but hail definitely got worse. And it doesn't stop Abomasnow from being somewhat neutered if an opposing weather inducer switches in (even though none of them want to take a super effective hit from Abomasnow's monstrous coverage and power).
  25. The Poker

    The Poker

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    I agree with dende. Its been a lot easier fitting abomasnow into any team, now that hail only lasts five turns. He doesn't screw as much with your teams balance as he used to to. some self healers are viable with him now that wouldnt work with him before, like arcanines morning sun.

    Edit: just saw your post azureleaf. You're right about hail. Its a nerf every wheather has to endure. Luckily Abomasnow was sometimes used as a counter to the other, more beneficial wheather types anyway. So at least in that role his wheather may be even better than before.

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