1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Above the speed tiers (peaked #10 / >2000)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by sanches br, Jan 24, 2013.

  1. sanches br

    sanches br

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2012
    Messages:
    18
    [​IMG][​IMG]




    INTRO

    Hello smogon. As a typical rain user, watching many people complain about drizzle beeing OP, always made my blood boil. So during the tornadus-t/keldeo I decided to make revamp from one of the usual sand teams just to show the drizzle haters how wrong they were. Although this team should be a momentary team, while I was playing with it I discovered that it was the most joyfull team I've ever used.


    THE MAKING OFF
    Show Hide

    First the main idea of the team was to use stoutland and spam ultrafast choicebanded returns, so the 2 initial pokes would be stoutland and Hippo cause unlike ttar hippo can take fighting attacks
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    then for proper use of a banded stoutland I would need a steel trapper: time for subs magnezone to enter
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    after testing LO scizor in another team and seeing it's potential i decided to give it a shot, specially to have another drag resist and something that can setup on locked latis that might be dangerous
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Now i had 2 pokes to check sun and rain teams, and as a real fan of latios and for the fact that both rain and sun hate this dragon it had to be on the team
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    I knew that latios wouldn't survive more than 1 specs hydro pump and would be an easy prey to the big bird so I decided to pick one of the 2nd gen most famous pokes: resttalk suicune
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    suicune worked wonders against many teams but some pokes like toxicroak and jellicent would still give me many problems. Venosaur also could set up on it, and the big bird could get lucky on huricane and confuse hax me to death. So what could be better aggainst rain than a dragon that comes at 2+ spe, can dent anything for great damage and gets a 4resist against water attacks? kingdra was the choice.
    first i tried an LO resttalk with draco and hydro pump, but I was forced to use rest too often due to life orb + ss. As most of the times I would just spam dracos i tried dragon fang, which turned out to be a great lure for annoying things like rotom-w and set up sweepers thinking it was choice locked.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]



    INSIDE THE TEAM



    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Hippowdon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SDef
    Impish Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock
    - Whirlwind
    - Slack Off

    I can't think any words to describe hippo other than wall. There is no much thinking when trying to chose a partner for stoutland, they are like bread and butter. Hippo's main job is to put rocks, summon sand for his little fella, and finally hold back physical attackers trying to break my team (specially fighting types like a 2+ nukario and terakion that can threat my team). The best part of this fat guy is that he has a reliable recovery, so even during weather wars it can be used to freely, as it won't be worn down by entry hazards or weak attacks.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]dawg (Stoutland) (M) @ Choice Band
    Trait: Sand Rush
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Return
    - Superpower
    - Ice Fang
    - Pursuit

    Stoutland is my main attacker and it does carry quite a punch. A banded return can be used to late game sweep or hurt the entire team enough so scizor can finish them off. Pusuit is specially good to trap the orbed version of the lati twins that can give this team a lot of trouble. Pusuit is also used a lot for gengar that is incredibly annoying no matter what. Ice fang is mostly used if a dragon is paired with gengar as one of them will surely be killed by the furry bastard, as it can KO most of the dragons and also hit gengar(which is the most common switch in as they probaly expect return) for the 2HKO. Ice coverage is also perfect if they think that landy-t can wall this dawg. Finally Superpower for obvious coverage against steel types. Finally the evs are used to be faster than scarftios which is the fastest threatening scarf.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Magnezone @ Leftovers
    Trait: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 252 HP / 200 SAtk / 56 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Flash Cannon
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Substitute

    Magnezone is used for one simple reason: trap ferro,skarmory and forry, opening space for a furry ball sweep. Normally it's not a hard job for him as kingdra/latios/stoutland are magnets for those steels, and any wrong move on their part will cause death to a poke.
    It also makes scizor almost never pursuit latios as it fears beeing traped back. mag also has other utilities as dragon resist, kuy-b check and threat the ocasional jellicent. After doing it's job it's normally used as a death fodder so stoutland or scizor can enter without any damage. The evs of this set is to be faster than 8spd evs band scizor, so i can kill it even if took out something with superpower.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Scizor @ Life Orb
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - Bug Bite
    - Swords Dance
    - Roost

    Scizor has a good reason to the most used poke, at 2+ it's priority will KO anything not called tentacruel, full health keldeo and heatran. It's quite easy to get a boost as many people are expecting the choice locked version or think that stuff like gliscor/forry can wall it. scizor also works as revenge killer that is not choice locked. scizor is almost always the late game cleaner, finishing weaked foes even if they resist bulet punch. While some people may think that superpower is better than roost, I hardly had a battle in which I would win if i had this move meanwhile roost is quite usefull if i'm using this monster as a revenge killer or dragon resist. evs to outspeed 4spe rotom-w and the remnant in attack and HP


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Latios (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Draco Meteor
    - Surf
    - Recover
    - Trick

    Latios is the first of my anti sun/rain duo and also my favorite poke. Draco meteor will hurt anything for huge damage and latios also takes huge advantage for magnezone trapping any steel not called heatran. Latios is also a good for it's groung immunity and fighting resist and can check most of the sun and rain teams. Trick will choice lock any poke that is too bulky to be handled and can be specially annoying to stall teams. Recover might seem gimmick but can be quite usefull if the battle takes too long as normally they expect that latios will be worn down by stealth rock + flamethrower/scald. LO latias might also work but trick is so dam usefull, especially against some ttar that after the trick they lock itself in pursuit letting scizor set up freely after latios has died and then sweeping the entire enemy team.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]Kingdra @ Dragon Fang
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 120 HP / 252 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Draco Meteor
    - Sleep Talk
    - Rest

    Finally my second rain/sun check. kingdra is also my status absorber, specially against ninetales/heatran trying to burn everything. hydro pump hurt even is in sun and earth power from heatran won't do much damage (~30%) so kingdra can check that annoying, unkillable heatran without taking much damage. kingdra also an incredible lead as many people don't know what it can do. with these evs it can outspeed and ko loom before it spores. this set is just awesome as most of the time you hydro pump first , making people think that this set is a choiced one then put their bulky rotom-w to be vaporised by draco. also they will probably try to set up with frail sweepers while you're sleeping and they will be hit with sleep talk. Although beeing quite good aggainst sun teams, it's in rain where it really shines. Against rain they have to chose to be sweeped by kingdra or stoutland, and there is very little that they can do about it, because the only thing that can check this dragon is ferro which can be trapped and killed by magnezone.

    OVERVIEW

    Overall imo this team works quite well because this team can check most of the major threats and even though the team has good sinergy (specially with all team members enjoying those nasty steel types beeing traped by mag), this team (unlike most stall team) can afford to lose one or more member without major consequences and most of the pokes used has some form of recovery so it's hard to worn down the team by residual damage.

    THREAT LIST

    Show Hide
    #1 BRELOOM: this annoying mushroom can dent my entire team for great damage. if well used can be very very ward to take down. the usual strategy is to put kingdra to sleep and then use sleep talk hoping for draco or hydro pump, even hydro pump can dent it and then normally life orb + ss wil make it eventually die.
    #2 DEOXYS-D: this thing will put rocks and a spikes layer and there is nothing I can do about it. Most of the time i just pray that it doesn't carry hp fire and try kill it with scizor.
    #3 exbelt JIRACHI: this annoying prick can kill scizor and magnezone, get a burn on hippo and u-turn without almost any damage. the best strategy agaisnt it normally is lure it with latios and give him a specs so it can't u-tun my hippo so easily.
    #4 special LANDORUS: i have no switch for this. the best strategy is to keep ofensive pressure so it doesn't come in for free. if it kills something stoutland can retaliate him or if it took some damage it normaly is scizor's job to finish him.
    #5 LO LATIAS with dragon pulse: this set cannot be lured to shot dracos and then be trapped by stoutland after it's weak. the best play is normaly sacrifice something so stoutland can come in and trap it with pursuit or ko it with ice fang denpending on the situation.


    I'm very open minded to sugestions to make this team even better. I know my english is not the best neither is my team, but I hope you enjoyed the show.
  2. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,109
    This is a really interesting team. I like the concept of going above and beyond the Speed tiers with two blazing fast Pokemon under the most prevalent weather conditions, but I think that some of the sets you run could use some tweaking to make them more efficient in dealing with opposing weather. First off, I think Expert Belt Latios would be a better set for this team. Your Choice Specs set packs some immediate power, but it doesn't necessarily provide you with the tools you need to dismantle sun teams. With your set, you'll have to use Trick very early on, and I think you'd be using Latios better if you just went with an Expert Belt set to still pack a punch while retaining the ability to recover health without too much effort and gaining the ability to switch moves. A simple set with a spread of 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe, a Timid nature, and a moveset of Draco Meteor / Psyshock / Surf / Recover will do you a lot of good. Note that with Psyshock, you now have a better check to Keldeo. Latios doubles as a good check to rain and a good Will-O-Wisp absorber thanks to its role as a special attacker and its high base Special Defense, leading me to my changes for Kingdra!

    Since you have Latios to do your main damage against sun teams (and Stoutland to hurt them while you have sand up), Kingdra's role is probably that of a rain check. However, I feel as though you'd do much better with a more aggressive set. You have Magnezone to get rid of Jirachi and Ferrothorn, so Kingdra can do some unhampered damage. A Life Orb set could honestly be more effective, as it packs a ton of power and provides you with some helpful coverage. You may be unhappy with losing a status absorber, but Breloom can't really set up against many of the Pokemon on your team bar Hippowdon, and Stoutland, and you've got the tools to deal with it afterwards. A set with a spread of 40 HP / 240 SpA / 228 Spe, a Modest nature, and a moveset of Hydro Pump / Draco Meteor / Ice Beam / Surf would be helpful in that the EVs allow you to beat out Choice Scarf Latios in the rain (a terrible set, but I digress) and the moves allow you to break holes with Hydro Pump and Draco Meteor in the earlier stages of the game while you can decimate with Surf and Ice Beam later on. You can use Rain Dance or Substitute over one of the given moves for some more guaranteed sweeping in the late-game.

    As for minor changes, I'd go with Wild Charge over Ice Fang on Stoutland. Dragon-type Pokemon are already KOed by Return or Bullet Punch from Scizor, but considering that you're running a Jolly nature, you'll need Wild Charge to KO healthier Keldeo that you see. You might want to test out a specially defensive Scizor so that it can take weaker special moves and set up more, but that's entirely up to you. You could also use a Choice Band set to do as much damage to Deoxys-D as possible early on, but I don't think you want to do that. However, U-turn can bring a lot of momentum, so it's definitely a change to test. I'd run a spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe with a Timid nature on Magnezone because the HP EVs aren't really helping against any specific threats, while Speed can be crucial when you want to remove speedy Scizor without having too much trouble. You'd also beat specially defensive Jirachi by one point with this change, and that can be crucial if you don't want Magnezone paralyzed. Overall, your team is really solid, so there wasn't much to change. Good luck, I hope I helped.
  3. Kidogo

    Kidogo

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2012
    Messages:
    462
    Very cool team, the hippo / stout / zone combo is very underappreciated, and kingdra is super impressive with rain's abundance. Harsha got most of my comments and the team is very solid, so these are mostly set nitpicks.

    I'd say fully defensive on hippo unless there's a specific SpD mark you're going for, as it could use even a little extra defensive for tanking +1 outrages, CCs, etc.

    I'd also say something else > ice fang like harsha said. Wild bolt is good, probably the best option.

    I'd probably advocate for a more offensive mag as well. I'd personally go with 220 speed timid to beat max speed adamant scizor, with max SpA and 36 EVs in HP. Not that different from harsha's set, there's just not much between 220 and 252 speed you want to beat (rachi i guess).

    I think the spread on scizor is a bit inefficient--40 HP gives you 301 HP, which is bad for LO. Instead, switch 8 EVs over to speed, so you round down LO damage while outspeeding 8 and 12 speed speed-creeping rotoms.

    Yeah, i think harsha has the right idea with latios. Since you need it to serve as a sponge for strong water, grass, and fire attacks, you really want to be able to recover and attack freely. Maybe try LO latios, it has almost as much power as specs while you get freedom of moves and another moveslot, psyshock works well there.

    Again, a more offensive kingdra is better imo. harsha's spread is fine, I like this one better though:
    Kingdra (F) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 216 Spd / 252 SAtk / 40 Atk
    Mild Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Waterfall
    RD is great on kingdra for non-rain teams, since otherwise it ends up being somewhat dead weight when not vs rain. Going mixed means literally nothing can wall you, hpump is your power move in rain with dpulse being a more reliable attack. Waterfall has a 93% chance to OHKO SpD blissey. Draco meteor could also go in the last spot as more of a power move. Either way, you definitely want 29 HP IVs for a LO number on the mixed, and if you go full special, you want only 32 HP and 8 def. 216 Spe is all that's needed imo to beat scarf terra and keldeo, 228 is good too though to beat latios.

    Hope my comments helped, GL with the team!
  4. Mr. Green

    Mr. Green

    Joined:
    May 14, 2011
    Messages:
    143
    Hi, there

    Team interesting, I think the spread of Evs Hippowdon can be changed to a much more efficient than it already uses, evs spread that I propose is this: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SDef with Impish nature, in this way you get the same special defense than before, and more physical defense.
    For Stoutland suggest you put Wild Charge> Ice Fang, since the Dragons them can already eliminate using Return, Bullet Punch Scizor, Latios and also Kingdra, Wild Charge would help against the Pokemon of water in general, for example Keldeo.

    The moveset for Latios, I do not really like Recover + Choice Specs, you might as well use it instead of Choice Specs or Life Orb or Expert Belt, consider that with Life Orb is difficult to play because you have to keep in mind Sandstorm under various damage that you receive from Sandstorm Rock and Steath when Latios will enter the field plus the recoil of Life Orb, Expert Belt while you pretend Scarfer and get great surprise kills, so I would say that using Expert Belt / Life Orb (I prefer being a Sandstorm Expert Belt) and Psychock > Trick against Landorus and Breloom've solved enough, since Latios will never Okho from a single HP Ice Landorus, while the latter is killed by Surf.

    same thing for Breloom that has moved against you, you do not get to sleep unless the field Latios (not to), you have also to Breloom also Bullet Punch Scizor.
    Expert Belt Jirachi is seen very rarely, the moveset that are more about him are the usual Specially Defensive, Scarf Jirachi, Jirachi and Cminder some rain, all three stopped fielding Hippowdon right to use or Whirlwind or Earthquake.

    Turning to smaller changes instead of Kingdra moveset would change something in me because we removed from Choice Specs Latios I would use it just with Choice Specs Kingdra, with Draco Meteor - Surf - Hydro Pump - Dragon Pulse, Surf for accuracy 100% preferable to use in If it is in the Rain, Hydro Pump to use when you need to make a particular Okho Surf that would not be able to obtain the same thing for Draco Meteor or Dragon Pulse. You could also insert somewhere HP Fire, but I do not think it is useful since the Steel kill them with Magnezone.

    Sets
    Show Hide

    Hippowdon (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sand Stream
    EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SDef
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Roar
    - Slack Off

    Wild Charge > Ice fang (for Stoutland)

    Latios (M) @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Surf
    - Recover

    Kingdra (M) @ Choice Specs
    Trait: Swift Swim
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
    - Draco Meteor
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)