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Pokémon Absol

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by LucaroarkZ, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    #359 Absol
    Type: Dark
    Base Stats: 65/130/60/75/60/75
    Base Stats (Mega:) 65/150/60/115/60/115 (Definite increases in Atk/SpA/Spe)
    Abilities: Pressure, Super Luck, Justified (DW), Magic Bounce (Mega)

    Movepool:

    Level-Up
    -- Detect
    -- Taunt
    -- Scratch
    -- Feint
    MR - Perish Song
    MR - Me First
    MR - Razor Wind
    Lv4 - Leer
    Lv9 - Quick Attack
    Lv12 - Pursuit
    Lv17 - Taunt
    Lv20 - Bite
    Lv25 - Double Team
    LV28 - Slash
    Lv33 - Swords Dance
    Lv36 - Future Sight
    Lv41 - Night Slash
    Lv44 - Detect
    Lv47 - Psycho Cut
    Lv50 - Sucker Punch

    TM & HM
    TM01 Hone Claws
    TM04 Calm Mind
    TM06 Toxic
    TM07 Hail
    TM10 Hidden Power
    TM11 Sunny Day
    TM12 Taunt
    TM13 Ice Beam
    TM14 Blizzard
    TM15 Hyper Beam
    TM17 Protect
    TM18 Rain Dance
    TM21 Frustration
    TM24 Thunderbolt
    TM25 Thunder
    TM27 Return
    TM30 Shadow Ball
    TM32 Double Team
    TM35 Flamethrower
    TM37 Sandstorm
    TM38 Fire Blast
    TM39 Rock Tomb
    TM40 Aerial Ace
    TM41 Torment
    TM42 Facade
    TM44 Rest
    TM45 Attract
    TM46 Thief
    TM48 Round
    TM49 Echoed Voice
    TM54 False Swipe
    TM57 Charge Beam
    TM59 Incinerate
    TM61 Will-O-Wisp
    TM65 Shadow Claw
    TM66 Payback
    TM67 Retaliate
    TM68 Giga Impact
    TM70 Flash
    TM71 Stone Edge
    TM73 Thunder Wave
    TM75 Swords Dance
    TM77 Psych Up
    TM80 Rock Slide
    TM81 X-Scissor
    TM85 Dream Eater
    TM87 Swagger
    TM88 Sleep Talk
    TM90 Substitute
    TM94 Rock Smash
    TM95 Snarl
    TM97 Dark Pulse
    TM100 Confide
    HM01 Cut
    HM04 Strength

    Egg:
    Play Rough

    Notable moves:
    Sucker Punch
    Night Slash
    Pursuit
    Swords Dance
    Fire Blast
    Ice Beam
    Play Rough
    Baton Pass
    Superpower (after transfer is legal)

    There are some moves not listed here that Absol does learn, but... Eh I'll get to them later. Not yet listing Gen 5 and earlier tutor moves since Pokemon Bank is not yet up.

    Analysis:
    Absol used to never see any use outside of lower tiers due to having no strong stats outside of Attack, as well as having the defenses of a wet paper towel. However, when Pokemon X and Y came along, everything changed. Absol gained a Mega Evolution with drastically increased Speed, as well as gaining a usable Special Attack stat and, most important of all, Magic Bounce. Mega Absol is (possibly) the fastest user of the Magic Bounce ability, as well as the only one not weak to Pursuit. Mono-Dark typing leaves a lot to be desired, but regardless, Absol will finally be able to leave its footprint in the OU metagame.

    Potential Movesets:

    Note: All Absol sets should run Justified as their pre-Mega Evolution ability, as it is the only one that can be useful prior to Mega Evolution.

    Swords Dance
    (Mega) Absol @ Absolite
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature / Jolly Nature
    -Swords Dance
    -Sucker Punch/Night Slash
    -Fire Blast/Baton Pass
    -Play Rough

    I'd list Superpower, but... No transfer yet in X and Y. Anyway, a Swords Dance set was pretty obvious. Thanks to blocking status moves, Sucker Punch becomes more effective, while Swords Dance boosts Absol's high Attack to even higher levels. Night Slash is weaker than Sucker Punch and doesn't have priority, but it grants greater reliability against defensive teams. Fire Blast hits Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress, which Mega Absol would otherwise have trouble with. However, Baton Pass can be used to pass your boosts to another teammate that can handle an Absol counter. Play Rough hits Fighting-, Dark-, and Dragon-type Pokemon hard; especially Fighting-types as Absol would have a hard time against them otherwise.

    Protect + 3 Attacks
    (Mega) Absol @ Absolite
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    -Protect
    -Sucker Punch/Night Slash
    -Fire Blast/Ice Beam
    -Play Rough

    This Absol set aims to use Protect on the Mega Evolution turn, therefore burning off the one turn where Absol's fight order is determined by its old, mediocre base 75 Speed. Outside of this, Protect can be used to scout Choiced Pokemon. Sucker Punch or Night Slash are again obligatory STAB; Sucker Punch is preferred due to higher Base Power and priority, but Night Slash is more reliable against defensive teams. Fire Blast nukes Forretress and puts a heavy dent in Skarmory and Ferrothorn; however, Ice Beam hits Intimidators like Salamence and (once Pokemon Bank is up) Landorus-T. Play Rough is needed in order to cover Fighting-types.

    Baton Pass Recipient (Credit to Mattman324 for set idea)
    (Mega) Absol @ Absolite
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 132 Atk / 240 SAtk / 136 Spd
    Naive Nature
    -Sucker Punch
    -Fire Blast
    -Ice Beam
    -Night Slash/Thunderbolt

    Thanks to Magic Bounce and great mixed attacking stats, Mega Absol works very well as a Baton Pass recipient. Should Absol be passed an Agility or a Shell Smash, nothing short of priority is going to stop it, and even then, only priority users that can stomach a Sucker Punch. The Speed EVs guarantee that Absol will outrun positive-natured Base 100s should Absol have no Speed boosts passed to it at the moment (assuming the 115 base Speed estimate is accurate) and the Special Attack EVs guarantee that Skarmory will be OHKOed by Fire Blast after Stealth Rock, assuming no boosts (again, assuming the 115 base SpA estimate is accurate.) Sucker Punch is obligatory STAB, while Fire Blast nukes Skarmory and co. Ice Beam slaughters Salamence, Gliscor, Dragonite, and Landorus-T (after transfers are legal.) Night Slash is preferred over Thunderbolt for a more reliable secondary STAB option, especially against more defensive teams, but Thunderbolt can hit bulky Water-types hard, especially Gyarados.

    All-Out Attacker

    (Mega) Absol @ Absolite
    Trait: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Naive Nature
    -Sucker Punch
    -Pursuit
    -Play Rough
    -Fire Blast

    Absol can also run an effective All-Out Attacker set, since it hits hard enough right off the bat. The moveslot now freed by not running Swords Dance or Protect can now be used by Pursuit, which allows Absol to trap threats that may attempt to switch out of it due to Sucker Punch, such as Starmie and Gengar. Play Rough and Fire Blast still function for coverage; Play Rough covers Fighting- and Dragon-types while Dark + Fairy is only resisted by Mawile and Klefki, both of which don't want to switch in on Fire Blast. Fire Blast also covers Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn.

    Checks and Counters:

    Magic Bounce reduces the number of Pokemon that can counter Absol; Skarmory can't phaze, Prankster Sableye can't burn, Blissey/Chansey can't cripple it with Toxic as it sets up (and can't really take a hit anyway), etc. Absol will struggle against Fairy-types. Sylveon can tank any unboosted hit and OHKO with Moonblast; similarly, Azumarill can take a hit and OHKO with Play Rough. Intimidate will also cripple Absol, but be aware that Absol can also run Special attacks like Fire Blast and Ice Beam to hit them. Most importantly, Choice Scarf users that resist Sucker Punch can easily OHKO due to Absol's nonexistent bulk, and Breloom can also destroy it with Mach Punch.

    Synergy:

    Absol really needs Pokemon that can get rid of Fairies; this is a job that can be left to Pokemon like Scizor and Gengar. Pokemon that can tank Bullet Punch from Scizor and Mach Punch from Breloom would also help; Volcarona is a good choice as it also benefits from Mega Absol's hazard-blocking.

    As Mega Absol can prevent entry hazards from coming up with the right prediction, Pokemon that are weak to Stealth Rock benefit from it. Volcarona, Dragonite, Salamence, and even Talonflame can benefit from Mega Absol's Magic Bounce; be aware that if you're going to rely entirely on Mega Absol to block hazards, you need to Mega Evolve it before your opponent can get hazards up.

    My Opinion:

    After many years left in the dark, Absol finally has its time to shine. While it still has defenses akin to those of a wet paper bag, it has plenty of Speed, Magic Bounce, and Sucker Punch, which all make up for that. As the only Magic Bounce user not weak to Pursuit, as well as (possibly) the fastest one, it has a definitive niche over Xatu, while Espeon's only advantage over Mega Absol would be that it doesn't use up your team's Mega slot. Will Mega Absol be the best Mega Evo? No. However, Mega Absol will definitely allow Absol to finally chill with the OU pack and finally be useful.​
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 21, 2013
  2. Upstart

    Upstart Copy Cat

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    A baton pass set is definitely viable as magic bounce prevents phazing.
  3. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    That's true. I kinda forgot Absol even learned Baton Pass, lol

    But yeah, now that I think about it it's definitely viable. Slashing Baton Pass on the Swords Dance set could work (at the cost of coverage) but I'm still thinking of a dedicated Baton Pass set. I'll edit this post once I think of one (or if anyone else has ideas, that's cool too)

    e: I slashed Baton Pass on the SD set as I could see use on it there. I'd think Blaziken would do SD + Baton Pass better, but Absol does get Magic Bounce, so...
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2013
  4. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Dragon Tail can still phaze you out since it's an attack.

    Also OMG broken! Nothing should be that fast and strong with Magic Bounce. O_O
  5. radica

    radica

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    Remember guys the turn you megaevolve it uses the old speed to determine fight order.
  6. Zarco

    Zarco

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    Utility Mega-Absol with Sucker Punch, Pursuit, and Sub has been doing great for me. Still not sold on coverage, probably Superpower if you can handle fairies.
  7. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Since it's only the turn it Mega Evolves, it shouldn't be that bad. It'll hurt on that first turn, but you can probably manage. You can Mega Evolve on pokes that are threatened by Sucker Punch (i.e. Starmie, Gengar,) or maybe Mega Evolve on a specially defensive Pokemon like Blissey that doesn't want to go up against Absol. You'll get more opportunities to Mega Evolve once Pokemon Bank's out since Lati@s will be transferable to X and Y at that point (and you can legally have Superpower by then as well, which makes it easier to force out Blissey/Chansey and get your MEvo turn overwith.) If you really wanted to, you could run Protect + 3 Attacks and use Protect to burn the Mega Evolution turn (and scout Choice users as well.) Might add that latter set to the OP; running Protect could be worthwhile especially considering the alleged Mega Evolution mechanics.

    tl;dr: Using old Speed to determine fight order on the Mega Evolution turn will hurt, but if you can get past that, you'll be okay.
  8. DDRMaster

    DDRMaster

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    You could always just Sucker Punch on the turn you Mega Evolve and have the priority take care of that low speed for you. Substitute causes it problems (as it always does) but using things like Will-O-Wisp to avoid getting hit would just be bounced right back at you.
    Beyonddabinary likes this.
  9. Zzgashi

    Zzgashi

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    Some more food for thought:
    If you use Baton Pass to switch out, and Mega Evolve on the turn you Baton Passed (or before), then next time Absol comes out, it's still Mega Evolved, meaning that first turn of plain Absol base speed wont be a problem.
  10. Thorhammer

    Thorhammer

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    That wouldn't actually solve anything; anything that outspeeds base Absol would still have a chance to hit Mega Absol before it could get away.
  11. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Ok, here's some food for thought.

    Gorebyss BPs a Shell Smash onto this thing. It has maxed Speed and a spread that maximizes both attack stats as much as possible.

    You now are facing a pokemon with MONSTER attack stat, AMAZING special attack stat, good Speed, and that can currently (as confirmed so far) learn a move from SIXTEEN OF THE EIGHTEEN TYPES. All but Fairy and Dragon. Oh, and on top of that you can't Phase it or status it.

    A well prepped Mega Absol can destroy teams.
  12. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Mega Absol as a Smashpass recipient actually sounds scary. It's got great mixed attacking stats, high Speed, and Magic Bounce, so it's like you're combining the roles of SmashPass recipient and Phaze blocker in one Pokemon. Ideally it needs to Mega Evolve before you attempt to SmashPass, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Get rid of Breloom, Mega Evolve Absol, set up SmashPass on Gorebyss, pass to Mega Absol, sweep.

    Not listing a dedicated SmashPass recipient set though because... Well, nothing ever gets dedicated SmashPass recipient sets and I don't see why we should make an exception for Mega Absol.
  13. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    We could make a general "Baton Pass Reciever" set, built to work with either Smashpassing, Agilitypassing, or possibly an SD/TG/NP pass. THAT has been done before, albeit rarely. Of course, it would be noted that Smashpassing is of particular interest.
  14. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Normally I'm against making Baton Pass receiver sets, but since Magic Bounce would make Mega Absol really good at it, I think I can make an exception in this case. I should have the set in the OP today but I have to go meet up with my Chemistry lab partner to do some homework so it'll be up a bit later today.
  15. Aldrius

    Aldrius

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    Really big fan of this one. Magic Bounce on a non-psychic type is nice, and from what I've seen of it's potential stats it's got the offensive power and speed to be very threatening. Movepool is pretty much as solid as it's always been, even Justified makes for a pretty good switch-in ability pre-mega evolving.

    Only thing letting it down is it's typing I think. Especially this gen with fairy, dark has a lot of weaknesses relative to the fact that it doesn't have a lot of resistances to make up for it. Though the ghost type resistance has become more of a boon than it was before with steel-types losing theirs.
  16. Shadow-XIII

    Shadow-XIII

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    Absol has always been a favorite of mine and now he is just awesome. I'd just like to discuss the ability of regular Absol. Super luck has managed to pull me out of loads of tight spots, but justified gives an instant attack boost, IF you predict the switch in. What do you guys think is better?
  17. steviestar

    steviestar

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    Justified seems to be better because theres no reason not to Mega Evolve right away so Super Luck won't ever come into effect.
  18. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    Yeah, Super Luck won't be doing you any good since you're probably Mega Evolving ASAP, and as we all know, Pressure is goddamn useless on Absol either way. Justified can get you an Attack boost from stray Dark-type moves; Dark-type moves weren't that common in BW2 and will probably remain uncommon in XY but regardless, Justified would still be the better option to run since it's the only one that can be useful before you Mega Evolve.
  19. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Here, I'll build a set for you.

    SET NAME: Baton Pass Recipient
    (Mega) Absol @ Absolite
    Trait: Magic Bounce (Justified before Mega Evo)
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Spd / 252 SpA
    Naive Nature
    ~ Sucker Punch
    ~ Fire Blast/Flamethrower
    ~ Two of: Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, Psychic, Rock Slide, Megahorn, Dark Pulse, Night Slash, or, if it gets it, Dazzling Gleam.

    Absol's MASSIVE movepool makes it hard for me to make this set, but once it gets an Agility or - heaven help your opponent - a Shell Smash passed onto it, it can kill everything. Sucker Punch allows it not to automatically be dead to weakened Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave users, Fire Blast lets it beat Steel types that no other move really lets it do (if you're passing a Shell Smash, you could consider Flamethrower), and as for the rest, it all depends on what your team needs to be ready to take out.
  20. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I just checked in my game; Absol does not learn Dazzling Gleam.

    Either way, that set seems good for a recipient. I'll see if I can narrow down the move options (slashitis sucks) and maybe tweak the EVs too, then I'll have it in the OP.
  21. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Yeah, I kind of just looked at his moveset and chose all the options that weren't outright outclassed (Quick Attack, Aerial Ace, ect).

    The unfortunate thing is that even if it had Superpower available, I would never use it on a recipient, meaning your best move on the Ground/Fighting front is... Rock Smash. Ick.

    Question, though. How much does it take from a Mega Luke Bullet Punch and a Scizor Bullet Punch? I can see those two still beating a BP recipient.
  22. az20

    az20

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    could payback be of use? since you start off with absol's speed, you'd mega evolve after your opponent hits you (hopefully u'll live), then you mega evolve and hit with a boosted payback (stronger than a sucker punch or night slash minus the critical hit ratio)
  23. Mattman324

    Mattman324

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    Absol's defenses make me wary of considering Payback as a serious option, though. It does NOT like taking hits.
  24. LucaroarkZ

    LucaroarkZ

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    I would never use Payback on Absol. Absol has Zoroark-tier bulk and a decidedly mediocre defensive typing; it's unlikely it's living anything any time soon.
  25. Aldrius

    Aldrius

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    One thing I just noticed is that Magic Bounce makes Sucker Punch super-easy to predict. No one is going to be using a non-attacking move against Absol. And if they are it's just going to get bounced back.

    Makes it a perfect Gengar counter pretty much. Turns into kind of a prediction war if the Gengar's carrying substitute, but it has all the tools to beat it.

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