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Accelgor (BW2 Revamp) (QC 2/3)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by The Unlucky one, Mar 31, 2013.

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  1. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    Alright let's go, Accelgor is a rather mediocre pokemon though...... But the idea of putting LO Accelgor in the analysis is SOO BAD now considering how bad the set is nowadays imo. Deoxys-D ban also gives it a stronger niche.

    [​IMG]

    Woof

    Skeleton (open)
    [OVERVIEW]
    • Accelgor seems like a really weird pokemon to use now, it doesn't have much going for it bar the Speed stat.
    • It functions as a suicide Spikes lead.
    • It's main things going for it over other hazard leads is that it has Bug Buzz to deal with the premier spinner vs Hyper Offensive Teams; Starmie
    • Accelgor is also a really good pokemon for Hyper Offensive teams is that STAB Bug Buzz allows you to kill Espeon and have a good chance of 2HKOing Xatu.
    • Deo-D banning helped it out in terms of having a larger niche.
    • Fastest viable mon in the game (Ninjask?)
    • Frail, does not have any other use to that.
    • No SR is a shame :(
    • Has a hard time competing with Custap leads like Crustle, Skarmory, and Forry.

    [SET]
    name: Spikes
    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Final Gambit
    move 4: Focus Blast / Yawn
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Unburden
    nature: Modest / Timid
    evs: 88 HP / 232 SpA / 188 Spe


    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Accelgor's main role is a suicide spikes lead.
    • It can also disrupt some other lead's work with moves such as Final Gambit.
    • Has formidable coverage against spinners and other threats.
    • Spikes is the crux of the set, offering pressure on Hyper Offensive teams.
    • Bug Buzz is your main STAB while OHKOing Starmie.
    • Focus Blast is your main weapon against most steel-types that you will encounter, doing feasible damage to other hazard leads like Skarm.
    • Yawn can either cripple the foe and give you a decent chance of set-up opportunities with your sweepers if they let themselves go to sleep. It also makes you not set-up fodder against some pokemon and force them about. It can stop set-up without having to sacrifice itself allowing it to set up more spikes.
    • Final Gambit is a strong asset knocking out a pokemon that maybe intially troubling stopping any set-up given it has enough HP. It also gives you momentum to stop the opposition from spinning.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • The EV spread lets Accelgor do more damage and outspeed Alakazam and Dugtrio. It also still has enough HP to deal with Terrakion and Keldeo with Final Gambit
    • A Nature will warrant a EV spread of 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe which lets you outspeed Jolteon, +1 Gyarados, and +1 Dragonite. Max SpA is there to dish out as much damage while also giving you the ability to knock out Keldeo, Terrakion, and Dragonite from full health with Final Gambit thanks to it's HP Investment.
    • U-Turn is the main move to regain momentum, preserve it a bit to potentially revenge kill something random.
    • Hidden Power Ice can also be used to wreck Dragon types that may set-up on you.
    • HP Fire can be used to OHKO Forretress most of the time.
    • HP Rock stops Gyarados from setting up on you and deals with Fire-Types not named Nape or Heatran when in the rain.
    • 208 Speed and Timid allows you to outspeed +2 Jolly Crustle which may help even though it is obscure.
    • Lum Berry can be used to deal with Pokemon that use status to deal with Accelgor such as Breloom or Amoonguss.
    • The Unburden ability lets you set up 2 layers of Spikes even against scarfers as you double your speed when your sash breaks.
    • Accelgor should be used on Hyper Offensive teams, so a spinblocker would help.
    • Rain Dance can disrupt opposing leads' weather, can even be used on mono-rain teams.
    • Gengar is the best offensive spinblocker.
    • Gothitelle deals with Tentacruel -- the spinner Accelgor doesn't beat. Gothitelle is also a great asset on Hyper Offense in general. The Scarf set also helps vs Starmie.
    • Pokemon that can abuse Spikes as there pressure tool rather than SR are welcome such as SubSalac Terrakion, who already has Rock coverage.
    • If you run Rain Dance, Kingdra and other swimmers really work out.

    [Other Options]
    • Hydration + Rest Accelgor on Rain Teams
    • Recover
    • LO Cleaner
    • Agilty + Baton Pass
    • Very Little to work with.
    [CHECKS AND COUNTERS]
    • Priority stops Accelgor from getting two layers.
    • Well played spinners stops Accelgor's work
    • It's easy to kill Accelgor as it is very frail
    • It can be set-up fodder at times with Substitute Pokemon that can bypass Final Gambit such as SubDD Gyarados if it gets a Sub as Accelgor sets up Spikes.
    • Any SE or feasibly powerful attack can kill/bring down to Sash


    Placeholder for writeup
  2. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    Damn, I really didn't know i could write up this analysis so fast. Welcome to recommendations, changes, and QC Approvals.
  3. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yawn is a waste of turn, so I'll remove it. Rain Dance is a filler move more than anything, so remove that, too.

    Final Gambit is worthwhile on the last slot instead, since it can do some damage or at the very least prevent the opponent from spinning.

    Focus Blast > HP Fire, imo - it provides overall better coverage, hitting all Steel-types for neutral or super effective damage, as well as the likes of Terrakion and Kyurem-Black. In fact, I suggest removing the HP slash, make Focus Blast the only move there.

    The last slot can be used for Final Gambit / U-turn, but also as a moveslot for additional coverage.

    As for EVs, max Speed is overkill. The most Speed it needs is 415, just enough Speed to outpace a +2 Jolly Crustle. If that's an obscure threat, then go with 396 Speed to be faster than Jolteon / +1 Dragonite. The remaining EVs are better spent in its defense. Hell it has enough Speed to run Modest

    move 1: Spikes
    move 2: Bug Buzz
    move 3: Focus Blast
    move 4: Final Gambit / Hidden Power Ice / U-turn
    item: Focus Sash
    ability: Unburden
    nature: Timid / Modest
    evs: 88 HP / 168 Def / 252 SpA /138 Spe
    ivs: 2 Atk / 30 Def

    The EV spread uses the remaining EVs to optimize Accelgor's bulk. This Accelgor actually comfortably survives a CB Bullet Punch from Scizor even after a turn of weather damage! Enough Speed to be faster than Jolteon and +1 Adamant Gyarados / Dragonite

    AC mention Hidden Power Rock for Gyarados and some Fire-types and HP Fire for non-Heatran Steel-types outside of Rain.

    You can AC mention a faster spread with 208 Spe to be faster than +2 Jolly Crustle, but any more speed would be useless; the EVs are coming out of its HP EVs.

    AC mention that if you choose Modest go with 104 Def / 216 SpA / 188 Spe; this Accelgor spread is faster than Alakazam and Dugtrio. It has enough def investment to have strong odds in surviving Scizor's Bullet Punch without Focus Sash.

    Which brings up to my next point - Lum Berry is an AC-worthy item. Sometimes people would try to cripple Accelgor with status (think mons like Amoonguss), and Lum can grant Accelgor another free turn to set up Spikes or attack.
  4. Chillarmy

    Chillarmy

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    Where's Encore? Locking Skarm or w/e into SR sounds a ton more appealing than a weak HP Ice or fast U-turn.

    also, Knock Off is worth mentioning in OO at least IMO. I'm a bit obsessed with the move, but it's relevant in Accelgor's case since it's capable of outspeeding every single non-scarfed OUmon.

    edit: lol I'm dumb. Thanks for clearing that up.

    edit2: Pocket, is there any reason behind Accelgor investing so heavily into Defense? It would be much better off running 252 HP / 120 SpA / 136 Spe if Focus Sash is to remain the only item choice. Pumping up Final Gambit's damage output is a lot more beneficial than not activating Focus Sash.
  5. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I think Encore is illegal with Spikes, but it's certainly an option on a Non-Spiker set
  6. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    ^^from what i know, Encore is illegal with Spikes; defeating it's main purpose
  7. tehy

    tehy

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    You know, if you remove the HP fire slash, you might want to remove its overview mention

    Your Lum berry sentence lists a reason for running it as burns not breaking your sash, so that needs to go

    If we're mentioning Gothitelle, I wonder if Thunderbolt is viable as an AC? The last move is to stop spin and setup, and theoretically Tbolt/Focus/Bug does a good job of blocking spin to begin with.
  8. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    ^^ ok both of them are brain farts on me. Also........ Accelgor doesn't learn tbolt. At least from my checks on PS
  9. ginganinja

    ginganinja Dating Haunter
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    I would like a mention of Hydration. even if its OO, I don't really much care, I just had small success with using HydraRest Accelgor on a Drizzle team and it worked ok. Basically it worked ok against those balance kinda teams since you actually found the time to get in a clutch Rest and go for more layers, and against offensive teams, you got the 2 layers off with sash anyway. It is worth a mention somewhere at least, especially as Accelgors ability and final moveslot is open to change I guess.
  10. AJC

    AJC

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    Me First is a interesting gimmick if only for doing something funny like smacking non-scarf Latios in the face with a Pseudo stab Draco meteor although me first requires some pretty insane prediction skills since you only really have the stats to me first special moves with any success.
  11. Landscape

    Landscape

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    Hi I am new from Serebii! I found out how Smogon is way better and after using SMogon's site for half a year, I decided to make an account! I like this section.

    I find Substitute a viable move for AC when using another item than Focus Sash as a safegaurd and to get up more spikes. Thanks. Be exploring!
  12. shrang

    shrang Defend the Headquarters of Revolution
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    Just something I'd like to point out, is that what makes Accelgor a pretty appealing Spiker (aside from his speed), is STAB Bug Buzz, which makes Espeon think twice before switching into bounce your hazards back. It also hits Xatu pretty hard as well. Maybe mention that somewhere?
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Yea, shrang's right - Accelgor's Bug Buzz does 51% min to the standard Xatu, so it can threaten to 2HKO Xatu.
  14. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Here are the best EV spreads for each nature:

    nature: Modest
    evs: 88 HP / 216 SpA / 188 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    The HP EVs give Accelgor 323 HP, enough to OHKO Keldeo, Terrakion, and Dragonite with Final Gmabit from max HP. The Speed EVs let Accelgor outspeed Dugtrio and Alakazam, and the rest EVs are dumped into SpA, allowing Accelgor to always 2HKO Xatu, which is the main draw of the Modest nature, and always 2HKO Terrakion with Focus Blast + Bug Buzz outside of sand.

    nature: Timid
    evs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
    ivs: 0 Atk

    Enough Speed to outrun Jolteon, max SpA to have a ~70% chance to 2HKO Xatu and rest thrown into HP to power up Final Gambit and always OHKO Terrakion, Keldeo, and Dragonite from full life.

    I think Final Gambit should be slashed alone in the last slot, because it acts as a spinblocking tool, one of Accelgor's best qualities as a Spikes setter. Not only that, but Final Gambit is the only thing that prevents threats such as Volcarona and Dragonite from setting up all over Accelgor.

    Also, i don't agree that Yawn is a waste of turn. Yawn is the main way Accelgor has to prevent setup without sacrificing itself, and makes sure that Accelgor isn't setup bait even when it gets down to its sash, where Final Gambit is useless in terms of dealing damage. Let's see some examples:

    Accelgor vs Volcarona

    Without Yawn, the only option Accelgor has to stop Volcarona from getting two boosts is to immediately suicide with Final Gambit and get no Spikes at all, as if it waits one turn and use Spikes, the next turn Volcarona will outspeed and bring Accelgor down to its sash, making Final Gambit a non factor. However, with Yawn, Accelgor can use Spikes in the first turn, and then the second turn use Yawn. In the third turn the opponent has two options: either kill Accelgor and suffer sleep, while also giving one free turn to whatever setup sweeper acompanies Accelgor, or switch out. Either way, Accelgor can use Spikes again with zero risk, or even spam Yawn to rack up entry hazard damage and suicide whenever necessary.

    This was just an example to show has useful Yawn to help Accelgor set-up more layers of Spikes and prevents him from being setup bait without sacrificing itself. Yawn should definitely be slashed with Focus Blast, and imo it should be the first slash.
  15. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Ugh my mistake with the EV spread, it should be 120 Def / 252 SpA / 136 Spe.

    I don't agree with your spread, alexwolf. Final Gambit is mainly a way for the player to remove Accelgor from the field. Most of the time it will die setting up Spikes without using Final Gambit. Thus, we shouldn't focus on maximizing Final Gambit's damage by pumping EVs into HP, but rather focus on optimizing whatever bulk it has by pumping in on its Defense EVs, so it has a shot at surviving strong priority, etc.

    Also, you're not gonna rack up Spikes damage with Yawn, because Accelgor is the one setting Spikes in the first place >_<; If Accelgor is spending turns using Yawn,then the Spikes would never go up. Sweepers like DDNite and QD Volcarona can easily pack a Lum Berry to make Yawn a wasted effort. I would rather have other Pokemon on my team deal with set-up Sweepers and leave Accelgor to its Spiking job (or pack HP Rock on Accelgor). If Accelgor ends up facing one of the dangerous set-up Sweepers, that's when I would Final Gambit for good damage to quickly bring out my check.

    You still have a point that Yawn can come in handy versus non-Lum set-up Sweepers, which are plentiful, so I'd support slashing after Focus Blast (the power and coverage provided by Focus Blast is too good to replace, though, since it actually makes Accelgor threatening with its Sweeper spread).

    PS: OKay, go with alexwolf's 120 HP instead of Def.
  16. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Pocket, DD Dragonite, Keldeo, and Terrakion are huge threats in the metagame and have the potential to be huge bitches against offensive teams, where Accelgor would be used, so OHKOing them with Final Gambit when the need arises is a very good thing. It's not like you avoid any OHKO/2HKO with the extra physical bulk you get from your spread, and Accelgor isn't meant to stick around anyway so the meager extra physical bulk that you get from the Def EVs should be a non-factor.

    Also you should be spamming Yawn after using Spikes, not before, if you want to rack Spikes damage. Use Spikes the first turn as the opponent sets-up, and then use Yawn as it brings you to your sash. Next turn he is forced to switch and you can start spamming Yawn and maybe get one more Spikes layer. Yawn is also the only way that Accelgor can setup Spikes against Tentacruel, which otherwise effortlessly spins away. With Yawn it will be forced out and give you a free turn to use Spikes. Yawn is very good as it allows you to be dangerous on Pokemon that don't mind Accelgor's attacks (Bug Buzz and FB), which are pleny) without sacrificing yourself in the proccess. But as long as it gets a slash on the main set, i am fine!
  17. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Here's a new one. I'll give you a hint: No one's done it.

    [SET]
    name: Unburden + Lum Berry
    move 1: Bug Buzz
    move 2: Focus Blast
    move 3: Hidden Power Ice/ Hidden Power Rock
    move 4: Yawn/ Giga Drain
    item: Lum Berry
    ability: Unburden
    nature: Timid
    evs:/ 120 HP/ 252 SpA / 136 Spe

    This set is designed to get past Accelgor's biggest weakness- Status. Normally Accelgor can't pull off a decent offensive set without being crippled by defensive Pokemon that can take Accelgor's hits. This set solves that. Accelgor can come in on a free switch in from a KO from a weakened offensive Pokemon that it has coverage for. Then it can KO the pokemon, and most likely a specially defensive Pokemon such as Chansey/Blissey, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and others hoping to come in to paralyze (most likely), or inflict some other status. Now this is where a normal Accelgor would get stuck. But in this case, Accelgor eats it's Lum Berry, then activates it's Unburden ability, then able to sweep. It's a great weapon against stall teams! Bug Buzz is the main STAB, Focus Miss is for the Steel types, and depending on the team, you choose a different Hidden Power. HP Rock is for the Flying types Accelgor can't hit. And HP Ice is for Dragon and Grass types.

    There are some roadblocks, however. Accelgor's measly base 100 Special Attack stat is lower than a normal sweeper's. It also can't push past some walls. Despite it's coverage, Accelgor can't take out some of the walls mentioned above early or mid-game. Therefore you should pack a Fighting type, such as Terrakion and Lucario to get past these threats. Additionally, Terrakion can set up Stealth Rock, which is extremely handy for Accelgor's sweep. Also, since Accelgor will be sweeping late game, it needs Rapid Spin support, or Magic Bounce support. Tentacruel is a great spinner due to it's resistance to the Fire type attacks Accelgor hates. As if it weren't enough to please, Tentacruel gets Toxic Spikes, which will weaken the opponent even more. If you go on the Magic Bounce route, then Espeon is a great choice. It can either set up Dual Screens, which will help with taking hits (if it has to), or it can Baton Pass Calm Minds and Substitutes, which boosts Accelgor bulk and power, and lets it preserve it's Lum Berry for later.

    Scarfers are this set's bane. Anything with a Scarf that has more than approxamately 98.45 base speed can outspeed and revenge kill the poor ninja bug. Also, if there's a Bander that can somehow outspeed Accelgor, he could get demolished.

    I hope you like this set! :D
  18. Landscape

    Landscape

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    I'd have to disagree with this set. The number of scarfers in this metagame make this set non-viable. Considering the thing is WEAK and fails to OHKO and even 2HKO a lot of things doesn't do any favors too with those bad defenses. Almost every wall can threaten it back. Ferrothorn has Gyro Ball, Hippowdon with Earthquake even threatens it. Forretress's Volt Switch does actually more than one would thing, same with Gyro Ball. Then you got Chlorophyll running around. Finally that Lum Berry is useless too. Use Bug Gem instead. Scalds from Vaporeon do a huge chunk, also from Tentacruel and Gastrodon. This set is forced out by a lot of pokemon and shouldn't be really worth anything this good.

    Priority. Bullet Punch kills, Mach Punch hurts. Extremespeed kills from LO Lucario and CB Dragonite. Aqua Jet kills. Ice Shard kills/hurt.

    All the flaws you mentioned are way to common and is bad overall. Stick to Life Orb instead. :)
  19. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Teammates help with that. And besides, this is a late game sweeper, where Scarfers and Banders have hopefully taken out the offensive Pokemon. I swear, pretty much every game I've been in my last Pokemon was a tank or wall. I'm not argueing, but I'm just pointing it out.

    Scarfers are supposed to be a threat. I mentioned that already, too.
  20. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    As a thing against everything up there. Accelgor should not be used in anything more but a suicide hazard role. As previously mentioned, even the LO sweeper is completely inviable nowadays that i see absolutely no reason to use an offensive accelgor nowadays as it's main niche is a hazard setter in the OU metagame. 100 SpA and a STAB that is walled by steels is really bad without access to a really powerful move or a boosting move (think AcroGem Pluff). LO Accelgor is already inviable that using it without LO in an offensive role is dumb enough. There are billions of better cleaners nowadays it's absolutely insane. It needs so much support to clean-up and even then it won't be very effective. Please just stick with suicide hazard lead and even then it's niche is rather small and it's among the worst viable hazard setters even then albeit not a completely eclipsed option.
  21. Psylink

    Psylink

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    Well, I tried. I give up.
    I also tried this on the ladder, and it really never worked.
  22. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    erm I think this is ready for QC checks actually. so let's go! other adjustments can also be added.
  23. Glacier

    Glacier

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    Remove Curse from OO. It basically makes Accelgor the worst pokemon in the world. You are literally turning it's best stat to cheese.

    208 speed EVs just to outspeed +2 Jolly Crustle. I don't think that should be there. Crustle's only main niche is the Custap Lead and has horrible coverage anyways and a good team has it checked without thinking of it. I wuld say remove, but if QC makes a SS set for the current Crustle analysis, then I'd say keep it.

    You forgot to mention that Accelgor has a weakness to SR in the CC and Overview.

    @Psylink Lol, if it never worked, why'd you post it?
  24. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Make Modest the primary nature. With a Modest nature Accelgor can always 2HKO Xatu and OHKO bulky Starmie 72.5% of the time, which could otherwise survive the hit, break your sash with Rapid Spin and after it dies, bring in a faster enemy or priority user and go for the KO, with Accelgor getting zero Spikes. It's not as the extra Speed really helps, as Jolteon rarely leads and is rare in general, Weavile is not even OU, and Scarf Politoed doesn't commonly lead too. I made a mistake on the EV spread of Modest and i missed a few EVs so here is the correct EV spread: 88 HP / 232 SpA / 188.

    Also, Final Gambit should be slashed alone and moved up a slot, as it is one of the most important moves of Accelgor. It is Accelgor's main way of preveting setup, preventing rapid spin, and giving free switches, and should always be on the set. So move Focus Blast / Yawn to the 4th slot and HP Ice / U-turn on AC.

    After you do those, i will give you my stamp.
  25. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

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    I forgot about this for quite a bit whoops. fixed all the changes
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