Accelgor

[Rising_Dusk]

Agirudaa
​

Agirudaa is the fastest of all of the 5th Generation Pokemon. Because of that, I suspect he will have a niche role in the metagame, but an important one nonetheless. This thread is dedicated to the discussion of the Pokemon competitively, not whether it will or will not be banned. Keep that in mind.

[B]#617 Agirudaa[/B]
Typing: Bug
Ability 1: 
   Hydration
    Heals status effects in rain.
Ability 2: 
   Sticky Hold
    This Pokémon's item cannot be removed.
Ability 3: (Dream World)
   Unburden
    Speed increases when an item is used or lost.

HP:  60
Atk: 70
Def: 40
SpA: 100
SpD: 60
Spe: 145

[B]Pre-Evo Moves:[/B]
Lv4: Acid
Lv8: Bide
Lv13: Curse
Lv25: Yawn
Lv32: Acid Armor
Lv37: Giga Drain
Lv40: Body Slam
Lv52: Guard Swap

[B]Level-Up Moves:[/B]
Lv1: Leech Life
Lv1: Acid Bomb
Lv1: Double Team
Lv1: Quick  Attack
Lv4: Acid Bomb
Lv8: Double Team
Lv13: Quick Attack
Lv16: Bug Resistance
Lv20: Mega Drain
Lv25: Swift
Lv28: Me First
Lv32: Agility
Lv37: Giga Drain
Lv40: U-turn
Lv44: Bug Buzz
Lv49: Recover
Lv52: Power Swap
Lv56: Desperation

Acid Bomb: Special Poison PP: 20 / Power: 40 / Accuracy: 100
Sharply lowers Special Defense.

Desperation: Special Fighting PP: 5 / Power: --- / Accuracy: 100
KOs the user and deals damage to the opponent equal to the HP it  lost.

[B]TM Moves:[/B]
TM06 - Toxic
TM09 - Venom Shock
TM10 - Hidden Power
TM15 - Hyper Beam
TM17 - Protect
TM18 - Rain Dance
TM21 - Frustration
TM27 - Return
TM32 - Double Team
TM36 - Sludge Bomb
TM37 - Sandstorm
TM42 - Facade
TM44 - Rest
TM45 - Attract
TM48 - Troll
TM52 - Focus Blast
TM53 - Energy Ball
TM68 - Giga Impact
TM76 - Bug Resistance
TM87 - Swagger
TM89 - U-Turn
TM90 - Substitute

Troll: Special Normal PP: 15 / Power: 60 / Accuracy: 100
Raises Base Power the more Pokemon you have with the attack.

[B]Egg Moves:[/B]
Endure
Baton Pass
Double-Edge
Encore
Guard Share
Mind Reader
Mud-Slap
Spikes
Feint
Pursuit

Guard Share: Other Psychic PP: 10 / Power: --- / Accuracy: --- 
Averages the user's and target's Defense and Special Defense.

This guy has a lot of very intriguing options available to it. Let's look at them in a bit more detail.

• Access to Spikes and Recover
  Yeah, let's go ahead and get this out of the way. Short of Deoxys, this is the fastest Pokemon in the game with Spikes. Unfortunately, he doesn't pick up Taunt and Encore from egg moves is illegal with Spikes, but still. What Agirudaa does have going for it, however, is that it learns Recover and Spikes together. This means that with sufficient specific defensive investment, maybe he can be a reliable Spikes setup Pokemon.
• Base 145 Speed and base 100 Special Attack
  So next, let's look at his Speed and his Special Attack stat. Agirudaa also gets U-turn, which is handy. That Special Attack might seem underwhelming, but you need to remember that Starmie has the same in that regard, and we all know how powerful Starmie is. However, Agirudaa has substantially worse coverage than Starmie, so I doubt he'll be attempting a sweep very often. He might only attempt to clean up if absolutely necessary and numerous specific conditions are met.
• Access to Desperation
  This is the new move that functions as a raw HP self-KO move. Agirudaa can use this with some HP investment and Recover to possibly score a KO against specific Pokemon. Agirudaa's low HP stat and susceptibility to Stealth Rock make this not very promising, though.
• Access to Baton Pass
  Nothing really exciting here, but at least he can Baton Pass Agility boosts. After an Agility and with some Speed EV investment, Agirudaa pretty much outpaces everything around. That might be handy in some circumstances.

I suspect that a dominant set will look like this:

Agirudaa @ Focus Sash
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid (+SpA, -Atk)
~ Spikes
~ U-turn
~ Bug Buzz
~ Focus Blast / Giga Drain

This is pretty much "the" set: a suicide lead. Spikes are great to set up when you can, and U-turn is to get out of dodge when you're not matched up well. (Pretty common) Bug Buzz is STAB and will actually let you beat Azelf leads. Focus Blast is shaky in its accuracy, but at least gives you a chance at besting Aerodactyl, Heatran, Tyranitar, and other such leads. Giga Drain, on the other hand, is reliable and your best coverage move against Water-types like Swampert. Sticky Hold is the ability of choice so that you can't be Tricked Choice items to lock you into something malicious. An alteration of this set might work outside of the lead position, but with those defenses, no immunities, and a vulnerability to Stealth Rock, that will pretty much always fail miserably.

So, what do you all think about him? Is he worth trying out with his amazing Speed, but otherwise mediocre movepool and awful defenses? Is he worth the support later in the game?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

He, unfortunately, doesn't even learn Taunt. (I wish he did) Encore would have some serious utility with that Speed if he could use it to set up Spikes on the forced switches. Maybe there is some egg combination available through 5th gen Pokemon that we're unfamiliar with which enables the moves to be used together. That would more than make up for Agirudaa's otherwise problematic time setting up.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

He, unfortunately, doesn't even learn Taunt. (I wish he did) Encore would have some serious utility with that Speed if he could use it to set up Spikes on the forced switches. Maybe there is some egg combination available through 5th gen Pokemon that we're unfamiliar with which enables the moves to be used together. That would more than make up for Agirudaa's otherwise problematic time setting up.

Actually, that encore set is more intrigiung to me than the spiker set now. A fast encore is a death sentence (well a force out) to many of the various slower stat uppers in ou. I really dont know how to calc base stats into acutual stats, but does 145 base outspeed 100 +1 (ddmence)? How about 97 +1 (ononokusu)?

 

[Azlanslayer]

He can be a good spiker, with 145 base speed stat, he outspeeds eveything in OU. The suicide lead set seems good, but i don't see the use of U-Turn because Agirudaa usually dies fast, so Protect is a good option there, to avoid Fake Out. Speaking about Fake Out, how about Energy Ball > Giga Drain?

 

[Shimrit As]

Is Unburden illegal with Spikes? If not I think it would work better - boosting its speed for an extra layer after it loses its sash

 

[Azlanslayer]

Is Unburden illegal with Spikes? If not I think it would work better - boosting its speed for an extra layer after it loses its sash

Why boost your speed when your already fast?

 

[Rising_Dusk]

I thought about using Unburden, but once your sash is broken, most opposing Pokemon will either have already been slower than you to begin with or will have priority to pick you off anyway regardless of the Speed boost. I'd much prefer the security of being immune to Trick than that.

base outspeed 100 +1 (ddmence)? How about 97 +1 (ononokusu)?

Neither. Agirudaa hits a Speed stat of 427 with 252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature. That's faster than Timid Choice Scarf Heatran (417), but just barely misses out on outspeeding +1 Jolly Gyarados (430). That should give you the ballpark Speed tiers that you can beat or will lose against.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

Actually, that encore set is more intrigiung to me than the spiker set now. A fast encore is a death sentence (well a force out) to many of the various slower stat uppers in ou. I really dont know how to calc base stats into acutual stats, but does 145 base outspeed 100 +1 (ddmence)? How about 97 +1 (ononokusu)?

Just reposting my question cause no one answered : (

 

[whistle]

unburden probably will be illegal with spikes, since unburden is a dream world ability while spikes is an egg move. it may be possible to "breed" abilities, but as far as I know there isn't any research on that... so it is probably better to assume that we can't, for now.

this seems pretty appealing but when I think about it a little more, I dunno how popular it will get in the long run. Froslass is kind of a DPP analogue for Agirudaa, since it also has a Speed stat that beats a lot of other common leads and access to Spikes and not much else. Unlike Agirudaa, Froslass gets Taunt and has a Ghost typing that stops Forretress from spinning in your face. Unlike Froslass, Agirudaa gets to outspeed Aerodactyl and Azelf, and it's also got a much larger special movepool. With dedicated lead sets, they both suffer the "problem" of not doing much besides setting up Spikes, which might be the largest problem for leads like Agirudaa and Froslass. it just seems like most people don't consider "down 5-6 with Spikes" important enough to warrant suicide leads, while "down 5-6 with SR" is important enough.

I guess Agirudaa's extra special movepool will make it a bit harder for leads like Heatran + Swampert to do their business. also, Recover should let it stay alive longer than Froslass, which means it now has three pretty important things that Froslass doesn't (higher Speed, nice special attacks, Recover), so that could let it overcome the hump that Froslass hasn't been able to. or perhaps Gen 5 will change the balance of entry hazards to make Spikes more effective in the metagame, which would also be a great boon for Agirudaa...

what would be really nice is Encore + Spikes, but I just did a quick sweep of all the new Pokemon's level-up movepools and none of them get Encore + Spikes together. it might still be possible to somehow get one with the combination through egg moves + level-up, and pass it on to Agirudaa... I think? I dunno breeding mechanics tbh. anyways, just putting Encore on Agirudaa without Spikes doesn't seems like a winning strategy at all. you get to make the other guy do nothing, sure, but... you kinda do nothing as well.

 

[Ice-eyes]

It doesn't beat those. It's slower than +1 Jolly Gyarados, I think.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

It doesn't beat those. It's slower than +1 Jolly Gyarados, I think.

EWWWW.

 

[Shimrit As]

It doesn't beat those. It's slower than +1 Jolly Gyarados, I think.

Mm its beaten by Jolly +1 Gyarados but it outspeeds Jolly +1 Dragonite

 

[kaychi]

My first reaction to this guy was "Hmm, another bug type... moving on to the nextHOLY ARCEUS IT'S GOT BASE 147 SPEED." I think that says a lot about him as a Pokemon.
I like that he has Spikes, even if it's illegal with Unburden, because he could have a spot on rain teams with Hydration. And Unburden might be easier to pull off this generation with some items that are easier to get rid of (Balloon is one, I think).

 

[ginganinja]

I could actualy see him doing o.k with Yawn. It seems like a sort of nub move but you Yawn a pokemon and your opponent has the choice to attack (and risk you running protect) and get slept next turn (which is dangerous if something like Shaderaa is around) or switching out and taking spikes damage. Anyway this seems to make sense to my twisted mind at 3am so feel free to point out how viable/unviable it is

 

[doomvendingmachine]

@ginga imo, this guy is too frail to do the pseudo phazing job of bulkier yawner/phazers.

 

[EvilMario]

Agreeing that Yawn, and Recover are almost useless on him, thanks to his defenses. The fastest user of Encore, U-Turn and Spikes (outside of Deoxys) makes him an interesting candidate none the less.

I wonder how effective Guard Share will be, with something that has these pathetic defenses, but access to Recover.

 

[Squid Ninja]

Even with his limited movepool, could he still work as a decent Special Sweeper? He would need Hidden Power for coverage, but he does have a powerful Bug Buzz and access to Energy Ball. Also, he isn't 4x weak to Stealth Rock.

It's a shame he can't Taunt though. He would outspeed Aerodactyl and Taunt him first. He still gets to be the fastest Spiker in the game (barring Deoxys), so he will always lay down a couple of layers if the opponent doesn't have priority.

Oh, and he is the fastest Rain Dancer in the game (even beats Electrode). If DrizzleToad is banned, he could (maybe) take up that niche.

 

[doomvendingmachine]

This is getting close to gimmicky, but he could have a niche to beat sleep leads with rain dance + hydration. Alternatley, with sticky hold, he beats trick scarf leads.

 

[Megaron]

How about a Choice Specs sweeping set? It's got decent Special Attack and beastly Speed, so with a Specs boost he could wreck some moderate havoc.

Agiduraa @ Choice Specs
Ability: Sticky Hold
EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Spatk, 4 Atk
~ Bug Buzz
~ Focus Blast
~ Giga Drain / Energy Ball
~ Filler (Pursuit and Quick Attack CAN work, but not too well. U-Turn can be used for scouting.)

Very straightforward, so no comments.

 

[Shimrit As]

How about a Choice Specs sweeping set? It's got decent Special Attack and beastly Speed, so with a Specs boost he could wreck some moderate havoc.Very straightforward, so no comments.

It's weak to SR and doesn't have that much power in my opinion. However its excellent speed means it can function as a late game cleaner, similar in vein to LO Starmie and (preivously) Deoxys-e - its base 100 SpA ties with Starmie and is 5 points higher than Deoxys'.

This is a set that would probably function better than the choice set since it isn't forced to switch out (taking SR damage in the process) that often and it becomes a flexible end game sweeper:

Agirudaa@Life Orb
Timid; 252 SpA 252 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- HP Ground (Shanderaa) / Ice (Fliers)
- Recover

 

[Squid Ninja]

It's weak to SR and doesn't have that much power in my opinion. However its excellent speed means it can function as a late game cleaner, similar in vein to LO Starmie and (preivously) Deoxys-e - its base 100 SpA ties with Starmie and is 5 points higher than Deoxys'.

This is a set that would probably function better than the choice set since it isn't forced to switch out (taking SR damage in the process) that often and it becomes a flexible end game sweeper:

Agirudaa@Life Orb
Timid; 252 SpA 252 Spe
- Bug Buzz
- Focus Blast
- HP Ground (Shanderaa) / Ice (Fliers)
- Recover

I don't think Recover will help him much with his poor defenses. Giga Drain would be better since it can hit opponents AND recover Life Orb damage.

 

[JellyWeasel]

Just reposting my question cause no one answered : (

They posted at the same time as you (only earlier than you)

Neither. Agirudaa hits a Speed stat of 427 with 252 Speed EVs and a Timid nature. That's faster than Timid Choice Scarf Heatran (417), but just barely misses out on outspeeding +1 Jolly Gyarados (430). That should give you the ballpark Speed tiers that you can beat or will lose against.

I pretty much decided that I wanted an Agirudaa as soon as I saw its stats, but its type coverage is a little sad.
It will be a great lead, though. Being a suicide lead doesn't remove its value, though. Aren't many leads suicide anyways? What's the point of having a lead in the middle of a match?!
I just hope that it will be able to do more on average than just set up Spikes before getting OHKOd by an Aerodactyl or Tyranitar.

 

[Squid Ninja]

They posted at the same time as you (only earlier than you)

I pretty much decided that I wanted an Agirudaa as soon as I saw its stats, but its type coverage is a little sad.
It will be a great lead, though. Being a suicide lead doesn't remove its value, though. Aren't many leads suicide anyways? What's the point of having a lead in the middle of a match?!
I just hope that it will be able to do more on average than just set up Spikes before getting OHKOd by an Aerodactyl or Tyranitar.

Well, I'm guessing the point of Agirudaa is to get at least two layers of Spikes down before dying, so I doubt he'll leave the "ultra fast spiker" niche. if he could Taunt, he would be an awesome anti-lead...

 

[giggity69]

I can see it working as a great partner with shanderaa. This thing would lure in spinners like nothing else, so shandy would be able to trap and KO them early on (assuming no shed shell), then he could set up more spikes if possible. Essentially the same premise as Deo-S in ubers (Just get layers down while you can), but without access to SR.

 

[GLS]

Bumping this up because I've been playing around with this guy on POs team builder for a bit. What do you guys think of this set as a harasser?

Agirudaa@Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
Sticky Hold/Hydration
252 HP, 252 Speed, 4 Atk
0 Def IV, 0 SP Def IV
Guard Share
Yawn
Recover
U-turn

With this guys extremely low base defenses and 0 IVs in either stat he has an incredibly low defense of 85 and sp. def of 112. With his incredible speed he can come in on a bulky poke, Guard Share to drop their defenses and raise his own. Survive a hit with focus sash and then recover back up to full health and/or yawn things to force switches. And finally u-turn out when his job is done.

This strat of course needs expert rapid spin support use since rocks absolutely destroys him. Sand also wrecks it. Gimmicky, sure. But I think the shock value and the proper set up could make this set extremely annoying and could help you score some easy kills on your opponents wall. Especially if they aren't aware of what exactly guard share does.