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Achievements and Ladder Division on Showdown!

Discussion in 'Pokémon Showdown!' started by Pocket, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Level 51

    Level 51 by far the worst
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    I don't see this improving ladder quality, which is the main purpose of the achievements. In fact, it will likely have just the opposite effect on the ladder :/

    That said,
    Massive Los-seis - Winning without losing a single Pokemon
  2. Emerld Shuckle

    Emerld Shuckle

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    The point of my system was partially to get rid of the need to create so many alt accounts. Instead of another option tier, maybe just have an "unrated" box to check next to the applicable tiers. Also, a test or unrated option would filter out most of the people who are on their just to mess around and have fun, so that when you are actually laddering, you only run into people who are battling somewhat seriously.
  3. RBG

    RBG But I keep cruising, can't stop, won't stop grooving.
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    What if achievements could state how recently they happened and they would "fade" (gold/silver/bronze/rust ect) if you had them for a while without reearning them?
  4. Emerld Shuckle

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    I think that would making getting achievements a constant hassle. And some of them wouldn't be possible to keep up. How would you keep getting the 100 win achievement? It'd make acheivments a chore instead of something to strive for. So I say a strong no against that.
  5. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    Why not enlighten me how?

    I don't know about you but I'm tired of seeing re-hashed and recycled teams on the ladder.
    And every achievement doesn't have to be earnable on the course of ordinary laddering, this is like an extra challenge. It's not like you HAVE to earn it, but if you manage to get a high ladder ranking with a team of offbeat pokemon then that can only improve ladder quality

    If i break 1900+ with a team that doesn't have the same regurgitated sand-rain core I think rewarding that would be a good idea. Plus the list doesn't have to remain static. The list of usable pokemon can change monthly to mirror the usage stats. And ladder insulation will ensure the fact ladder quality doesn't go down or shitty gimmicks make it through. Only really good working teams make it, and that deserves to be rewarded.
  6. phoopes

    phoopes The Boss
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    Top Percentage: Peak #50
    Pikachu: Peak #25
    The Grind: Peak #10
    Ladder Champ: Peak #5
    (Peak at #3 is too many achievements for my liking)
    Pokemon Master: Peak #1
  7. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    Thanks for the names for the achievements, guys! I've added them all. phoopes I changed Ladder Champ to Ladder Elite and Pokemon Master to Grandmaster. Nice pun on Pikachu, lol ;d

    I also added RBG's suggestions of having certain achievements that expires on the bottom of the OP. Not sure it would be a popular idea to lose an achievement that one earned already, but it's certainly an interesting proposal. These achievements would have to be non-stackable, though.

    I also added the Unrated Ladder Option in the OP. The biggest challenge is the matchmaking system - would you be matched solely with other unrated players? how would you be matched (randomly i suppose)? Obviously, there would be no points awarded or lost from these games.
  8. Level 51

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    Using worse teams means generally you will end up playing at a lower quality due to the badness of your team. Generally, bottom-% Pokemon are pretty unviable in the tier... also I don't see what's wrong with rehashed teams;
    (1) all you have to do is prep for them when teambuilding. Like how DrizzleToed changed OU.
    (2) then they're not really a problem.
    It just sounds like you get bored really easily :/
  9. tehy

    tehy

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    Personally I love the idea of the achievements fading away, either that or them stacking. The point is to not just show off that one time you got super lucky or played perfectly that you can't replicate, but show that you can do it over and over.
  10. linton

    linton

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    I got a few achievement ideas...

    Under-powered - Winning a game with 6 UU Pokemon against a team with 6 BL or higher Pokemon.
    Me First! - KO 3 Pokemon with Priority moves.
    Full Power! - Gain +6 on any stat of one of your Pokemon
    Hat-Trick! - KO 3 Pokemon in 3 moves
    Luckiest Man Alive! - Obtain 5 Critical Hits in 1 game /OR/ Obtain 3 Critical Hits in a row
    Tag! You're It! - Each member of your team must have either Baton pass, U-Turn or Volt-Turn and you win the game.
    Hit Me With your Best Shot! - Survive a Critical and Super Effective attack from full health with 1 Pokemon.
    Brock'd - Use the move Attract 5 times in a single game.
    That's all I've got for now. Some are very, very gimmicky but I always thought that was the point of achievements.

    Stackable achievements are better than fading ones. You could peak at the top of the ladder 4 times but after 3 weeks no one will no but if they stacked it'd be proof of your skills.
  11. Emerld Shuckle

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    But again, how do you get say 50 wins in a row twice? So what if you got lucky? It happens. You're not going to get lucky for every single achievement, and in fact, there are probably a lot of achievements that you're going to need to be lucky to get.
    I don't see the big deal with trying to make sure that nothing happens by luck ever. If the fear is that there are going to be players who are not so good that get lucky and get achievements that the good players don't get, I think that a bit of a ridiculous fear.
    Some not so great players might get lucky and beat a very bad player with six UU pokemon in OU. So what? I see nothing wrong with that. They got lucky on one, maybe two achievements. They aren't going to get lucky on most of them, so the god players will still have more achievements than the worse players.
    And again, achievements fading away would make them a chore to continually get. There's no fun in that. Achievements are something that you brag to your friends about, not something that you continually get to prove that you really are awesome. That will be evident by your playing and rating, not what kind of achievements you have.
  12. tehy

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    If you can't get 50 wins in a row twice you get the Bronze achievement eventually. Or you do it again.

    Firstly, stacking is a good idea too. Putting that aside: Let's take player X and player Y. Player X got 3 crits in a battle, while player Y constantly outplays his opponent. By achievements we'd rank them the same. The cool thing about fading achievements is that they show off how often you're getting these achievements.

    It's not a ridiculous fear. The whole point of achievements is showing off skill. Getting lucky once kind of goes against the whole point. If you got it a while ago, you still have the Bronze achievement or whatever.

    A chore to get? You can brag to your friends about them... before they fade. And you don't exactly need to get them. If you think it's a bother to get them, then don't. You will always have proof that you did it if you want.

    So here's my proposal:Stacking AND fading. I think stacking>fading somewhat, but I like the idea of both. That way, you can show off how many times you've done it, and combine with how recently you've done it, too. Ideally when you mouse over...whatever visual representation it'd say the last time. Hopefully it would expire based on logged-in time, but I don't know if that is really implementable or if it's worth it.

    Also, if fading exists, there really need to be two tiers. Easy tier: 6-0's, for example. They go to silver in a day and bronze in a week. Hard tier: Topping the ladder. Silver in a week and bronze in a day. if the logged-in time ever gets implemented, we'd need to change the timing, but I don't know if that can even be a reality.

    Edit: Messed up? You'd still have them in a lesser form. As I recall, it's probably going to be Bronze, Silver, Gold.

    Yes everyone gets lucky, but the point is to show players that can consistently get these achievements. it cuts both ways? Yes, but the thing is... you want to minimize the impact. If you just got a 6-0 once and that's it, it's not a great measure of your skill. Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

    And why would it be a pain to get them again? Again, if it's a pain then don't DO it. You shouldn't be putting much extra effort into these achievements anyhow. Most of this stuff is stuff you should be trying to do naturally. Win a lot? Win dominatingly? Even the comeback can be good strategy-sacrifice your pokemon to ensure a sweep by your last one.
  13. Emerld Shuckle

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    Then why not just list how many times you've gotten the achievement next to it? It doesn't have to fade.
    And EVERYONE gets lucky. It's not a big deal. Good players get lucky too. I see nothing wrong with that. It's part of the game. If it helps you get and achievement, then ok, it helped you get an achievement. But it's also possible to be on a 49 game winning streak, and then get crit haxed and not get the achievement. It goes both ways.
    Also, with fading achievements, you would have to play everyday and constantly be getting achievements in order to keep them. If you go away for a week without internet, you lose a lot of your achievements. That's messed up.
  14. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    I'd like to have stackable achievements, if Zarel and friends can implement it. Fade in achievements would be something in addition to stackable achievements. Fade in achievements wouldn't apply to stackable achievements (not all achievements are stacked), only on non-stackable ones. And it wont apply to all non-stackable achievements (ie, it would be silly to lose "Winning your first game" Achievement).

    Ideas on which non-stackable achievements to fade?
  15. Manitary

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    In my opinion a fading achievement is something I will never try to obtain, because it's rather unlikely I'll have time to keep it up.
    A better option is having a counter that shows how many times you got it.
  16. mien

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    There is no need for a decaying achievement system, since it's already covered by the current decaying rating system.

    Likewise it would defeat the purpose of an achievement system in the first place since it's meant to be a overview of the players past accomplishments.
  17. phoopes

    phoopes The Boss
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    This is a very good idea, better than fading IMO. Like a few have said, achievements show your past accomplishments, no reason for then to go away.
  18. Soul Fly

    Soul Fly IMMA TEACH YOU WHAT SPLASHIN' MEANS
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    You pointed it out yourself.

    If the Pokemon is shit they are unlikely to break into the top tier with a team based around it, ladder tiers provide us guaranteed insulation from cheap gimmicks, but if someone has found a really innovative way to make an underused and under appreciated pokemon perform consistently enough to get get them 1900+ (or to the top ladder tier) then that can only improve the metagame.


    EDIT:
    I am also against achievements fading away. They are supposed to serve as records to what you have achieved, this isn't like a ladder peak which you have constantly fight to maintain.
    The best idea would be making then re-earnable, say after each ladder reset or a significant metagame shift. And also make them earnable multiple times for each separate tier. Should be pretty enticing

    Say like Grandmaster (x3), On a roll (x10), Winning Steak (x3) .. so on and so forth
  19. RBG

    RBG But I keep cruising, can't stop, won't stop grooving.
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    Not all of them need to fade, but some of the easier to earn ones (6-0 a battle, 5/10 battle win streak ect) could do this while the near impossible ones (100 win streak, win 1000 battles, ect) could take months to fade or not at all.
  20. Houndoomsday

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    But how do we decide which achievements "fade" and which don't? The point of achievements is to "collect" them and show them off. Fading achievements completely goes against what they stand for, which is showing off skill.

    Stackable achievements however, achieve much of what fading wants to do, but in a much more eloquent way. Players no long have to worry about keeping their "6-0" achievement from going away, they now focus on getting more and more of them. In addition it lends itself quite easily to a leaderboard for some of the achievements, so you can tell who has the most of a certain goal.
  21. tehy

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    yeah, i'm definitely in RBG's corner.

    The point is showing off skill? Then the easier it is to get, then the more it fades. Stackable is cool too, but I like the idea of seeing what someone's done recently more than anything.

    The thing I dislike about stacking is, after a while, it'll be like, 500 times you've gotten an achievement, and it just kind of loses meaning. But with fading, you can show with pride that you've done it recently, and the more you battle, people will see that you always have it.

    Edit: I'd argue it's a greater version, instead. It shows exceptional accomplishments WITHIN battles, rather than just winning the battles themselves.
  22. mien

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    The point of achievements is not to show of how skilled a person recently has been on the ladder. This is already taking place under the current rating system.

    The original purpose of introducing achievements i believe, was to prevent that players would have incredible succes on the ladder without the records fading into obscurity shorthly after. Your system of fading achievements would destroy that purpose Tehy and rather turn it into a lesser version of the current rating system.
  23. Lasagne

    Lasagne "The light that stands out from the darkness"
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    I think the point about how stacking 500 achievements becomes meaningless is a good one. This could be addressed by limiting the number of times you can earn an achievement, to 10, or 20. A symbol could appear next to the max number showing when a player has gotten over that amount
  24. NMx13

    NMx13

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    I really like this idea. I think achievements should never fade. Also there should be limit for stacking achievements 5 or at most 10? More than 10 is too much. If you really want to show your skills then try get 100-win streak 5 times... Also to avoid confusion, limit should be same for all stacking achievements.

    When it comes to laddering, there should be way to reset your ranking. After you have lost few times it is going to be pain to get better ranking like 2000. Making new accounts isn't really something that you would consider to do since you would lose all cool achievements. Yes I know Reset feature will be implemented eventually but it is really important part for this new ladder project. Resetting ranking should reset your current ranking and current win-lose-tie but there should be win-lose-tie totals that would be never reset. It would be really disappointing make new Alts just because your are stuck in Beginner Ladder or something like that.

    I would add 75-win streak, not to mention 100 is really hard haha. I think this is already quite enough. It is not like we are supposed to give 1000 different achievements... So there is list and it is pretty much same as in OP. When you unlock "win 1000 games" it should replace your "win 500 games" achievement and so on for other achievements, there is no reason to have long list of achievements. Priority is to encourage people to ladder more and by having ladder division and it helps people to learn as they play against better people (if they reach 1650 or more) and of course ladder division would be positive change for good players too. Achievements would just be cool thing to have along it.

    Chuck Norris - All 15 achievements completed

    Grandmaster - Peak #1*
    Ladder Elite - Peak #5
    The Grind - Peak #10
    Pikachu - Peak #25
    Top Percentage - Peak #50
    Landing on a Leaderboard

    Unstoppable - 100-win streaks*
    *insert clever name* - 75-win streak*
    Winning Storm - 50-win streaks*
    Winning Streak - 25-win streaks
    Don't Stop Me Now - 10-win streaks
    On a Roll - 5-win streaks

    Seen It All - Win 1000 games in total* (if you have 2000 games you have complete this 2 times etc)
    Hardened Veteran - Win 500 games in total
    First of Many - Winning the first game
  25. Shiruba

    Shiruba

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    please don't make chuck norris jokes anymore. those went out of style years ago. :c

    I really like this idea, and love achievements in general! They're actually one of the reasons I played my Xbox 360 as much as I did when I was younger, heh. I did hear that this might incite the wrath of Nintendo [as in, the inclusion of achievements/RPG elements], but if not... I do have some naming ideas of my own!

    Loud and Proud - Obtained Voice from Ladder Challenges [alternatively, 'Say it Loud']
    Undaunted - Winning after a 3-mon Deficit (or more)
    Just a Flesh Wound - Winning after losing a mon to a CH (the knocked out Pokemon must survive the same hit without a CH to count)
    A Winner is You - Graduating the "newb" ladder
    Hall of Fame - Landing on a Leaderboard
    Pocket likes this.

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