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Gen 2 Add an Uber to GSC OU: What do you get?

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Jorgen, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    So I was thinking back to the GSC + Celebi/Ho-oh mini-tours from a while back that... well, failed miserably. The idea behind these, though, was to see what GSC might look like with one of these Ubers added to the mix. It's interesting because most of GSC's Ubers are defensively-oriented, whereas in other generations most Ubers are behemoths that can very obviously overpower standards with their attacking prowess.

    Basically, what I'm looking for is:
    • What is the Uber you're adding to GSC?
    • What is/are its best set(s) in this metagame?
    • What happens to the metagame around it?

    Alternatively, you can just comment on what somebody else has said if you only have something quick to add about a Pokemon somebody else has already discussed. To start things off, I'll discuss what happens with the addition of Ho-oh to GSC OU:

    [​IMG]
    Ho-oh @ Leftovers
    • Sacred Fire
    • Thunder
    • Recover
    • Whirlwind

    If you add Ho-oh to GSC OU, this is the standard set in my eyes. It's got a great BST, but despite those nice attacking stats, it doesn't have a decent Physical STAB or access to DynamicPunch, so an attacking set is out of the question. A Sunny Day set might seem nice until you realize that in addition to having to worry about Snorlax, Waters, and Tyranitar, you now also have to deal with other Ho-oh. Really, the thing Ho-oh is best at is burning things and not dying, so it's better off running a semi-offensive support set like this. It can Recover stall all sorts of crazy stuff, can Phaze even +1 Surf Vaps, and can spread status thanks to its attacks' secondary effects.

    Ho-oh would probably be a standard, even with everything it has going against it (namely, poor typing and suboptimal matchups against Snorlax and the Electrics). Its stats are just way too good for it not to be used a ton. Because of this, the metagame would definitely shift around it. Its propensity to Burn and Paralyze things would send Bell usage through the roof, and mixed offensive stuff would probably plummet since Ho-oh walls it all and threatens status. Nidoking would go all but extinct. Exeggutor usage would dip because even though Exploding on Ho-oh would be a great role, Egg would need to catch it on the switch whereas against Electrics it can tank a hit. Gengar would struggle as well, since Ho-oh doesn't really let it do anything but try to explode on it, and even then Ho-oh needs to be weakened a bit before Gengar can kill it. Tyranitar usage would probably be up, too, further limiting Exeggutor's and Gengar's usefulness.

    Overall, Ho-oh seems to make GSC a good bit more stall-oriented by limiting mixed offense the way it does. I guess if Recover on Ho-oh were banned it wouldn't be as bad, but that really just takes away its ability to be the team's Phazer, as it's still a devastating mixed wall with RestTalk. Most non-STAB Thunders and Thunderbolts still fail to 3HKO Ho-oh, let alone 2HKO it, so Recover isn't absolutely necessary to tank those.
  2. Borat

    Borat

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    I think Ho-oh would be annoying to play against, recover and stuff. I don't think it really "adds" anything, other than just being annoying and bulky. It's a shoo-in OU, but it really simply doesn't accomplish anything. Think of it as an alternate dimension Suicune if anything. Ho-oh with recover banned would be more interesting imo.
  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    Tyranitar's Rock Slide does a stupid amount of damage to Ho-Oh, no?
  4. Borat

    Borat

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    Irrelevant point. That's like saying Heracross does stupid amounts of damage to celebi.
  5. Hemp Man

    Hemp Man

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    Does Sacred Fire have a 50% chance to burn the foe in GSC? That would mean stuff like Tyranitar would be scared to switch in, especially if its not a RestTalk set.

    Edit: " and can spread status thanks to its attacks' secondary effects." implies yes.
  6. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    Yes, 50% chance to burn with sacred. However, it's not that line that implies it. Thunder para is also a status it can spread, mind you. And with only 8 Sacred PP, you'll probably need to aim for para rather than burns most of the time to preserve PP.

    Also Ho-oh's Rock weakness is totally relevant, because you made the comment that Ho-oh is an alternate-reality Suicune. Which, I must add, is something I agree with in a broad sense, but you can't ignore the fact that Suicune switches in to wall Tyranitar to hell and back, and Ho-oh quite obviously fails miserably at being Suicune-like in that regard.
  7. Borat

    Borat

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    I think it's irrelevant in the sense that it's still stupidly bulky, and having a single 4x doesn't knock it down a peg in the slightest. Which I think is what was implied, that ho-oh is "easy" to kill because of the 4x to rock? Clearly ttar hitting it for like 90% is irrelevant.

    In any regard, I don't really agree with that set. I think with ho-oh you literally have two paths, be stupidly gay with recovery wall, or be the only legitimate way of inflicting burn in GSC (which may or may not be great, as it's still unproven as a status), mayhaps with the 5 pp item? In that sense, the burn side of ho-oh maybe somewhat meta-altering, as it literally makes belling necessary, or force snorlax into immediately resting.

    But then again, it could just be mitigated by NOT going to snorlax and merely going to zapdos/raikou or something, which is probably a pretty decent plan. But then again, I'd try to "burn" through the 8 pp. Ehhhhhh hard to say without really seeing it in action. But I don't think ho-oh as-is would make GSC OU anymore "fun" in any dimension. Recover simply needs to go on this thing; it walls too damn hard. And ho-oh destroys "faster" teams.
  8. Dre89

    Dre89

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    It's relevant in that you can't just drop suicune for ho-oh without having another answer to tyrannitar.

    I'm not sure I agree with the 'remove move X from pokemon Y' because then nearly every pokemon becomes acceptable in any tier if you just ban enough moves. It also gets really subjective when concepts like 'fun' come into the picture. I know hypnosis is banned on missy, but I don't think people really want to start going down that path where all the ubers start getting unbanned with various move restrictions.
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom

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    I wasn't saying it was easy, just that the weakness does exist.
  10. cookie

    cookie Adominnustrata
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    how about hp fighting over thunder - smacks ttar/blissey/snorlax around but you lose against suicune
  11. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    HP Fight does decent damage to those switch-ins, but it doesn't have a secondary status effect. Ho-oh is going to be walled no matter what, so having that status is pretty important out of your moves. At least, that's the way I look at it.
  12. cookie

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    or over Whirlwind? between fire/electric/fighting that leaves zapdos/raikou, which still won't like sacred fire. Nothing bar Quagsire/Rhydon can switch in on that without taking at least 30-40% damage, which are gonna get burned and made useless.
  13. Crystal_

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    I used Fire Blast / Thunder / Recover / HP fight in the GSC+Ho-oh minitournament. Fire Blast 3HKOes electrics and HP fight 4HKOes Snorlax. I thought that would be the best set for OU. Lost in the first round of the tournament though, so whatever.
  14. Mr.E

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    Why not just Curse/EQ? :P It's too bad you don't have a fifth moveslot to carry all three of Sacred Fire, Recover and Whirlwind after that but let's not forget Ho-oh has huge Attack.
  15. Hemp Man

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    Curse, Hidden Power Flying, Earthquake, Sacred Fire I suppose could be an all out Physical Set. I think Ho-Oh suffers from 4MSS.
  16. Royal Flush

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    No real reason to HP Fly with Curse Ho-Oh, fire stab already gives the coverage it needs, just go for Recover there.
  17. Jorgen

    Jorgen World's Strongest Fairy
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    I think the biggest issue with Ho-oh as an attacker is... other Ho-oh. Thunder barely dents it (only a very slight chance at 3HKO), and it gets Recover, to boot. Even without Recover, RestTalk Ho-oh walls itself forever unless it runs HP Rock or AncientPower, which shafts its coverage against other mons.

    As for Curse sets, those suffer from the same problems other Curse sets run into, only Ho-oh gets no Physical STAB so it's even worse off from an offensive standpoint. I guess it could set up a sweep against teams without their Electrics or Tyranitar and no Growlers, but it's an awful lot of maintenance necessary to get CurseRoar Ho-oh to work.
  18. Mr.E

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    Do like I used to do back in the day when I ran T-Tar: Ancientpower on the switch and sweep if you get the boost. :P

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