D/P/Pt OU Adios mis estudiantes :]

Discussion in 'RMT Archive' started by Bologo, Nov 5, 2008.

  1. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Intro

    Ok, so basically, I haven't posted a RMT here since the end of 2007. This is obviously before I became a tutor, since the tutoring program resumed in February.

    I am posting this team because basically, I'm going to be turning in my tutoring badge very soon (the end of the current round). I've been overrun with schoolwork, and my grades are at an all-time low, and I REALLY need some scholarships if I want any hope of paying for university (I'm in grade 12 right now). I just wanted to make sure that I posted at least 1 RMT with my tutoring badge safely pinned on my shirt.

    Theme

    As you probably know, my teams always have some sort of theme to them. However, although this one has a theme, it's very hidden, since I only have 1 UU on my team this time, believe it or not. This is probably the best team I've made (it reached #30 on my Melfice account until I stopped playing a few days ago to try and not fail my midterms).

    Basically, the theme is "At least 2 resists to every single type" (immunes count as resists too). I personally think that this is a great theme, since it helps this team switch in on pretty much anything, and it really shows that pokemon is meant to be a team game with the synergy that resistances create. On that note, suggesting changes in moves is perfectly fine, and I may even take your suggestions if you make a good argument for them. However, if you suggest a change in pokemon PLEASE MAKE IT FIT WITH THE THEME! I do not want to mention this several times in this thread or seem like a jackass, but if you cannot understand this stipulation, then do not post here, simple as that.

    Also, if you want to know why all of the pokemon are female...simple, I enjoy the company of the female gender.

    Team

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    [​IMG]

    Heatran (F) @ Shuca Berry
    Ability: Flash Fire
    EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Explosion
    - Fire Blast
    - Earth Power
    - Stealth Rock

    This thing is a tremendous lead. It used to be a ScarfTran, but to honest, I just got sick of the thing and I wanted to try something new. Also, I used to have a Jirachi on this team as my Stealth Rocker, but I shook up my team a lot to make it nice and interesting.

    Basically, my strategy is to use Stealth Rock first and get that shit set up. Generally, the only time that I will Fire Blast right off the bat is against an ignorant Scarf Skymin that thinks it can Earth Power Heatran and OHKO. Well wait a minute...Shuca Berry...DENIED! Skymin won't even come close to a OHKO, while Heatran scores a guaranteed OHKO with Fire Blast.

    I also really enjoy bringing this thing in a little later in the game against Blisseys. If the opponent has a Blissey, I generally follow this simple rule: Fire Blast first to scout for Protect, and then Explode. This will catch a lot of Blisseys off-guard, and really helps Starmie rip shit up later in the game.

    Beating the shit out of other Heatrans is very cool as well. They may come in on your Fire Blast thinking that they can kill you the next turn with Earth Power. Watch the opponent's face as Shuca Berry screws up their Earth Power and stops the OHKO, while your Earth Power cause the opposing Heatran to die a very painful death.

    Immunes: Fire, Poison

    Resistances (1/2): Normal, Flying, Psychic, Ghost, Dragon, Dark

    Resistances (1/4): Grass, Ice, Bug, Steel

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    [​IMG]

    Breloom (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Poison Heal
    EVs: 248 HP/252 Atk/8 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Bulk Up
    - Mach Punch
    - Stone Edge
    - Spore

    Not many people gave this a lot of support when I put it up for a peer edit, though it did make it onto the site with the sister Swords Dance set. However, it is time to show people how much of a beast this thing really is.

    I'm inclined to say that the only thing that stop Bulk Up Breloom are very bulky Special Attacking Psychic types. Everything else faces an extreme world of pain when this sets up. After about 2 Bulk Ups it can survive most Explosions, and it can easily take Gliscor's 4x effective Aerial Ace and Spore it. I know what you're thinking. "Ice Beams and Flamethrowers rape this thing". That's very untrue. For your information, it takes a massive 370 Special Attack to guarantee a OHKO on this Breloom with an unSTAB Ice Beam or Flamethrower.

    Zapdos can give this occasional problems, but only if it comes in on Mach Punch or Bulk Up. If it comes in on any of the other two moves, it's toast.

    However, the main reason why this set is so effective is Breloom's durability. Do not let the low defensive stats fool you, this thing really does have the potential to be quite bulky. If you can't tell, then the reason is that Poison Heal is like double leftovers. After a couple of Bulk Ups, this thing can really take a beating, and won't be losing much health either because of the 12.5% recovery every turn. That, and it can put stuff to sleep at will, which presents a HUGE problem for any slow pokemon/phazer.

    This can sweep at any point in the game provided that you can find an opening (isn't very hard since Breloom has a ton of key resistances). But the best time to sweep is lategame. There's lots of parasupport for Breloom so that it can take down fast frail sweepers, but it's also got that deadly Spore, which can secure more and more Bulk Ups each time it's used. The strategy that I like to use is to just bring Breloom on something like Gyarados or Tyranitar, since it can take their attacks with ease, or bring it in on a slow wall, and Spore. Start Bulking Up from there unless you predict something like Zapdos or Skymin coming in. In that case, Stone Edge (requires good prediction to work). Keep racking up the Bulk Ups until you're ready to sweep, but remember to predict strong special attackers, as they can very well ruin your sweep. In the end, most things will perish to Mach Punch and Stone Edge since Mach Punch finishes off frail but strong sweepers, and Stone Edge cleans up the rest. This thing also supports its comrade Heatran by easily taking the Water/Ground weaknesses.

    You may be wondering why I am using this over the Swords Dance one. Basically, I feel that the Swords Dance version is way too frail for its own good. The Bulk Up version can at least afford to miss the OHKO once in a while, but the Swords Dance one needs to get those kills on the double, or its in a hell of a lot of trouble.

    I'm NOT REMOVING this by the way. :]

    Resistances (1/2): Water, Electric, Grass, Ground, Rock, Dark

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    Rotom-c @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP/20 Def/216 Spd/20 SDef
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Trick
    - Shadow Ball

    This is really the only member that I put on my team to adapt to the platinum metagame, since very little change was needed IMO. I used to have a little Rotom here, but when it got upgraded, I switched without hesitation. Just for clarification, I'm not using Rotom-c for any particular reason, I just like this Rotom the most out of the bunch.

    This thing provides a lot of key resistances and immunities, but especially the immunities. Fighting and Ground are such common attacking types nowadays that insurance against them is really needed.

    Ok, so the EV spread does look a little odd, so I suppose that I will explain that. First, the Speed EVs give it 430 Speed with Choice Scarf IIRC. This lets it take Gyarados down even after it gets 1 DD. I did not put any Special Attack EVs on it, because it already OHKOs the things it needs to. Eg. Azelf, Gengar. Therefore, I put the EVs into HP and the defenses to make it able to take some nice, strong hits.

    Trick screws over walls greatly, and when a wall's generally weak attacks are resisted by either Breloom, Lucario or Starmie, and they're stuck using that attack...it can often mean byebye opposition.

    You may be wondering why I am not using Leaf Storm on this thing. The explanation is simple. Double STAB on this thing gets great coverage. But also, I don't really need Leaf Storm, since it would mostly be for Tyranitar. To tell you the truth, it's often to the opponent's dismay to Pursuit my Rotom, because most Pursuit users are Choiced, meaning that they're locked into it. If they Pursuit my Rotom and it gets killed while it's running away, that's the perfect opening for a Lucario sweep, as he 4x resists
    Dark, and can Swords Dance up and start wreaking havoc thanks to Rotom's sacrifice.

    Immunes: Normal, Fighting, Ground

    Resistances (1/2):
    Electric, Poison, Flying, Bug, Steel

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    [​IMG]

    Lucario (F) @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spd
    Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Crunch
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Extremespeed

    You should all know what this thing does, since it's one of the top sweepers in today's metagame. However, I will explain some of the stuff. The resistances on this thing are so horrendously easy to abuse. Simply bring it in on a resisted attack against something it can kill. Swords Dance while they switch or while they stay in. Annihilate the team. Done. This obviously works best lategame though, since priority sweepers are deadly late in the game (hence why I fuckin have 2 of them).

    I chose Crunch over Stone Edge or Ice Punch, simply because everything else can easily take down Gliscor or Gyarados, so there's really no reason that Lucario needs to sacrifice coverage on shit like Cresselia and Dusknoir.

    Also, I chose this over Scizor because Lucario's resists fit perfectly into the theme, while Scizor's do not.

    Immunes: Poison

    Resistances (1/2): Normal, Grass, Ice, Ghost, Dragon, Steel

    Resistances (1/4):
    Bug, Rock, Dark
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    [​IMG]

    Starmie @ Expert Belt
    Ability: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Def/252 Spd/252 SAtk
    Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic

    Ok, so before Deoxys-S was voted uber, I used to have him in here. However, since I can no longer have him, I decided to look for a nice alternative. I thought, it needs to have good coverage, enough defenses to take a decent amount of resisted hits, and it needed to fit with my theme. I came upon Starmie!

    If Lucario and Breloom don't succeed in their sweep, this thing can generally just come in and sweep the shit that they couldn't kill. This tends to piss off many people, but that's what I, Bologo do! I gave it Expert Belt instead of Life Orb, since this can hit a hell of a lot of types super effectively, and I personally don't like Life Orb unless it's on something like Lucario who NEEDS the extra damage a lot. Plus, without immunity to Sandstorm, Life Orb simply kills Starmie way too quickly.

    I gave it this EV spread, because I just wanted an all-out sweeper Starmie. Max Speed to tie with stuff like Azelf, max Special Attack for that extra oomph, and 4 Def instead of 4 HP so it could come in one extra time on Stealth Rock.

    After some testing, I have decided to go with Psychic over Grass Knot.

    Resistances (1/2): Fire, Water, Ice, Psychic, Fighting, Steel

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    [​IMG]

    Lanturn (F) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 40 HP/216 Def/252 SDef
    Calm nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Thunder Wave
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Beam
    - Confuse Ray

    Heh, I always have a special niche pokemon on one of my teams, and this time I chose Lanturn. I mainly chose this thing because of its unique set of resistances and its great immunity to Electric. This thing has saved my ass so many times it's not even funny.

    First off, my EV spread. 40 HP lets Lanturn reach 401 HP to take a minimum of 5 Seismic Tosses (though I don't usually pit this thing against Blissey anyway unless I just want to screw with the opponent's mind). Now
    here comes the interesting part. You know how people find Vaporeon to be pretty physically bulky with 130/60 physical defense? Well, 125/58 isn't much different (yes the Ground weakness is a pain), and Lanturn can take a huge amount of hits, even some non-STAB Earthquakes. Well, I put max Special Defense since this thing is meant to take Special hits like real champ. But then I threw the rest of the EVs in Defense, to make it a mixed wall of sorts.

    I like bringing this thing in on stuff like Gengar and Suicune, since they really have a difficult time beating Lanturn, and Lanturn can Thunder Wave them and completely ruin their sweeps. This thing counters a lot of special sweepers, because it resists some very key types. It's even a pretty good CB Scizor switch-in and a great MixApe counter, since it 4x resists
    Scizor's Bullet Punch, and takes very little from MixApe's special attacks (grass knot is extremely weak on Lanturn), with only Combat having a chance to 2HKO. Keep in mind that I did try investing some Speed in this thing to outspeed Skarmory, but I really find it to be worthless. Lanturn's going to beat Skarmory either way, so I'd much rather have some more walling ability than waste EVs on Speed.

    Now for the actual moves. Thunder Wave is generally just useful, and having 2 paralysis inducers on the team is even more useful. It's just not hard to set up a sweep when the opponent can't move. Thunder Wave also works with Confuse Ray for an effective Parafusion combo. Parafusion is amazingly effective on Lanturn since it can take both types of attacks pretty well, and it's got great coverage to go along with it. Thunderbolt and Ice Beam give Lanturn the good coverage to compensate for the mediocre special attack, and lets it pound on things while predicting with Thunder Wave. I'm NOT REMOVING this one either.

    Immunes:
    Electric

    Resistances (1/2): Fire, Water, Ice, Flying

    Resistances (1/4): Steel

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    End

    Yeah, so rate this team, and tell me how it is. Once again, I don't mind move suggestions, but when suggesting pokemon changes, please stick with the theme of 2 resists to each type.
  2. Colonel M

    Colonel M I don't suck it's my team that sucks!
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    I think I remember facing this team only to get screwed by your Lanturn and such. Some neat originality is something that I like preferably although I guess I'll add in my comments.

    First off I like how you use Rotom-C. However, I'd be inclined to add Discharge over both Thunderbolt and Thunder Wave if possible. This gives you an open slot for either a third attack (Leaf Storm) or a crippling move (Will-O-Wisp). If Thunder Wave and Thunderbolt suit you more than its cool.

    The team, otherwise, is pretty cool to me. I can't really think of a whole lot to say other than you -might- suffer problems from a Mamoswine at best although I want to guess you can handle him otherwise. Choice variants aren't the ones that I wouldn't be scared about, its Life Orb variants at best. That's why, in my opinion, why Will-O-Wisp sounds better on Rotom, to me anyway.
  3. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Epidemic - Unfortunately, as much as I'd like Vaporeon, I really need the second Fighting resist that Starmie gives me, as it makes the team lose the theme if Vaporeon goes over Starmie.

    CM - Discharge is a potential idea. I'll take that into account. As for Mamoswine being a threat, it really seems to hate getting Scarf tricked onto it from Rotom already. If it gets the Scarf, it's Breloom or Lucario food, depending on whether I predict it using Ice Shard or Earthquake. Good observation though, I never usually saw Mamoswine as much of a threat, but I'll watch for anymore problems it gives me.

    Thanks for the comments guys. Keep 'em coming everyone. :]
  4. Stallion

    Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good!
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    Well it seems like a very fun team to use. However, I'm worried about your large Dragon Dancing Salamence weakness. I know you have Rotom and all, and I know its rather stupid to say Pokemon X sweeps if Pokemon Y dies, but from my experiences, DDmence is often paired up with stuff like CBTar, which really does spell the death of your team. One good thing on your half is that it will find it difficult to set up (particularly if it is the offensive version). However, BulkyMence does hurt this team. Lucario and Breloom aren't doing alot to it (remember that it isn't even 2HKOed by a CBHera Stone Edge, so what chance does Breloom have of killing it). I guess Breloom can stat up alongside it and beat it 1 vs 1, I'm not sure how you usually deal with it though, so something to be wary of.

    I've also noticed an odd Rock Polish Tyranitar weakness, with Rock Polish/Earthquake/Fire Blast/Crunch scoring the 6-0 against you (especially if it runs Expert Belt and you can't outstall it). I believe a Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk/Waterfall Swampert with 252 HP/40 atk/216 spdef (+ SpDef nature) really helps here, as it still takes Gengar and gives you something for those odd Tyranitars. You still have two resists to every type even without Lanturn there so thats something to consider. On the offensive side, you generally have trouble getting past stuff like Cresselia without Tricking a Choice Scarf onto it, Booming or getting Lucario paralysed. Swampert generally helps with this, so give it a try :).
  5. Legacy Raider

    Legacy Raider
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    Hey, really nice team Bologo. I love your originality and it is obvious that a great deal of thought went into making it.

    For Heatran, I suggest you use 32HP, 252SpA, 224 Spe with Modest. It hits 246 Speed, still allowing you to outspeed Tyranitar. It also gives you a lot more insurance against Salamence and Life Orb/Specs Heatran, since even with Shuca Berry they come very close to OHKOing. I've used Heatran before, and the 32HP has saved me a few times when I survived a Ground attack with <10HP to spare. The SpA boost is appreciated when you realise that without Life Orb, you won't be doing too much damage. Your Explosion does suffer, but it isn't the best to run a hindering nature on something designed to take attacks.


    Also, although it is quite uncommon, your team has quite a large Agility Lucario weakness. Running Agility, CC, Crunch, Ice Punch, it can OHKO your entire team apart from Lanturn if it is holding a Life Orb. My suggestion would be making Starmie a bit bulkier (Spe to outspeed base 110s, etc) and having Recover over Grass Knot, as the coverage is sort of redundant.


    Great team, though. Well done.
  6. Venom

    Venom out on bail
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    Rotom-C can handle the "Agility Lucario weakness".

    Great team Bologo, I'm gonna go ahead and rate it 5 stars, not because of how successful this team is, but because how it's built with great synergy, everything here works with each other, team support is actually happening here.
  7. 6A9 Ace Matador

    6A9 Ace Matador veni, vidi, vici, VERSACE, VERSACE VERSACE
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    Great team, i might try that lanturn set myself, why don't you try out Stockpile/sub/bolt beam lanturn sometime?
    Its pretty useful and can take a nuking after 3 stock piles ;_;
  8. thechocolatebunny

    thechocolatebunny

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    go with pychic on starmie, grass knot hits swampert but most swampert will think breloom is carrying seedbomb and unless they have ice beam or
    avalanche it cant hurt breloom, psychic will OHKO gengar and kills fighters
  9. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Hmm, thanks for the rating MS.

    DDMence can be a bit of a pain if it sets up without Rotom in the house. I often have to resort to revenge-killing it with Lucario if I can't T-Wave it beforehand. If it hasn't set up a DD yet, Breloom can actually take its attacks pretty well besides Outrage, and he can Spore and Bulk Up, but yeah, that's only if Breloom hasn't taken much damage beforehand. However, BulkyMence hasn't been much of a threat. The one in the analysis doesn't actually run Dragon Dance, and that particular Salamence is easily walled by Lanturn. (I've never seen a BulkyMence with Dragon Dance, since they're all offensive these days, so correct me if I'm wrong).

    Rock Polish Tyranitar isn't much of a problem. Usually my initial reaction towards Tyranitar is to bring in Breloom. Breloom can come in on 3 of those moves in the moveset and be very close, if not actually getting a OHKO with Mach Punch, which is nice since it overrides Rock Polish. I'm not sure what the EVs would be for a Rock Polish Tyranitar, but I would assume that they also have a -Def nature due to going mixed and not wanting to reduce Speed, making Mach Punch more potent.

    Cresselia is definitely a pain. I usually rely on Rotom to beat it, but it's also beaten if Lucario gets that Swords Dance up thanks to Crunch.

    First, thanks for the positive comments, they're very encouraging. :]

    About Heatran, I personally like maxing his Speed out. The Explosion really needs the boost, since a lot of the time, Heatran is my initial Blissey-killer, and I don't think Explosion OHKOs with a -Atk nature. The reason I like the max Speed is that he can fry stuff like CB Heracross before it can do anything due to being faster. It's also nice to at least tie with SpecsTran if it shows up. Also, I often don't have Heatran taking many hits, to be honest. After he sets up Stealth Rock, which I usually do as long as I can survive the hit, I let him kill something with Fire Blast or something (usually another Heatran), and then if he really can't kill much more, or if he took a hell of a lot of damage from setting up Stealth Rock, he Explodes.

    Awesome man, thanks! :D

    Ehh, Lanturn isn't very good without a statusing move though. Plus he's not really helping the team out with that set, he's just stalling, which isn't what Lanturn's purpose is. :(

    Thanks for the rate though.

    Alright, I have been testing Psychic on Starmie over Grass Knot for a few battles, and it's been a lot more helpful IMO. I'm switching Grass Knot out for Psychic. Thanks for your help and your rate. :]

    Heh, by the way, Breloom can easily take Avalanche from Breloom, since it can Bulk Up as it's trying to Avalanche, and take the lower BP since Swampert needs to be hit for the higher BP to activate.


    Thanks for your comments everyone, and thanks for the compliments too; keep it up!
  10. Stallion

    Stallion Killing is my business, and business is good!
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    Heh I kind of forgot about Mach Punch >.< lol in that case it isn't a major issue.

    I have an alright record against this team, but whenever I lost it would be due to that fucking Breloom :( lol.


    But yeah, this is the Salamence I was talking about (the second in this thread) http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43598. It indeed does have Dragon Dance, but the lack of attack means Breloom *might* have a chance against it. Mmm aside from the AgiliLuke weak mentioned, your team really does cover most threats. Your Rotom seems to be the "glue" that holds it together, as without it you would lose to Gyarados/Salamence etc etc.

    Sweet team though :). The one gripe I have with it when looking at it a second time is the lack of recovery. As an example, sure your Breloom may be able to take a Stone Edge or two from Tyranitar. But whats to stop it from switching out and KOing it the next time? Anyway, the fact that I'm nitpicking like this does show it is indeed a very good team, I'm just curious as to whether the 0 recovery moves on your team hurts you in batte from your experiences with the team.

    When I get bored of my own, do you mind if I playtest this team and make changes I believe are necessary through my own personal experiences?
  11. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    Hmm, well a lack of recovery can be a real annoyance when I'm forced to have a very prolonged battle. However, a lot of the members don't seem to need much recovery. Heatran's gonna explode itself to death when it's low on health, so it doesn't need it. Breloom's already getting huge recovery with Poison Heal (I've seriously been able to recover A LOT of health after a couple of Bulk Ups). Rotom seems to do fine with Leftovers (after he tricks some on), but I do actually wish that he had some recovery sometimes. Lucario obviously doesn't need it. Starmie seems to do alright, since this one isn't meant to be defensive. Lanturn could definitely use some recovery, but he seems to do pretty well as I find Electric attacks VERY predictable, particularly Thunder Wave. Also when he attempts to stall with parafusion, he gains quite a bit of health back with Leftovers recovery, since the opponent has such a low chance of doing anything.

    I used to have another variation of this team that had Jirachi and Togekiss as dual wishpassers, but that was a much more defensive variation of the team (it was also a double resistance team that flinched the shit out of opponents :D). This one that's balanced but leaning towards offense is my most successful variation though, so I posted this one instead.

    And yes, you can definitely playtest the team as much as you want. :]
  12. Corrupted

    Corrupted

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    CurseTalk Swampert really has fun here. I'd go with Grass Knot > Psychic for this reason only. DD LO Mence ohkos everything bar Tran after a dance (But he can only explode). Bulky SD Luke with Ice Punch could help with this.
  13. Bologo

    Bologo Have fun with birds and bees.
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    CurseTalk Swampert? No offense, but that moveset sounds like it's easily walled. If the moveset has Curse/Rest/Sleep Talk, then it only has room for 1 attack, and it's either going to be Earthquake or Waterfall. Either attack is extremely easy to wall on this team, so I really don't have a problem with it.

    I already know that DDLOMence can be a problem, but a Bulky SD Lucario isn't going to help at all, since it still won't have enough bulk to take an Earthquake. I can still stop it from setting up pretty easily, since it fears statuses or fatal attacks from everyone on the team. I can usually revenge-kill it with Lucario's ExtremeSpeed if Salamence has taken 50% already, but it is a bit of a problem on occasion.

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