Gen 3 [ADV] Curse Gengar

[HUARGH]

So this is an idea I have been toying with for a while, but it is very hard to set up. Perhaps I'm missing something though.

Gengar (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: ???
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Curse
- Protect
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt/Toxic/Dream Eater

As said before, it will be nearly impossible to set up and sand stream is going to be a pain in the ass, but if you can baton pass an ingrain (and ideally a +1 Spd) with spikes I don't see that many counters. This started off as a troll to fuck with a friend of mine. This is basically how it went (keep in mind I knew his -exact- team composition as we battle each other quite often):

He has a HP ghost Forretress as a way of dealing with spin blockers, I would swap to Gengar to block the Rapid Spin (which lured HP ghost) and then go to Smeargle to block the HP ghost. I would use Ingrain, he swaps out Forretress for his jolly-natured CB Heracross with sleep talk (his sleep absorber) and I would endure his hit, giving me +1 Spd from Salac. He is put to sleep and forced to swap out due to CB and I can baton pass to Gengar, who is now faster than everything thanks to the salac boost. Right here, a game of substitute and protect starts until I get an opening where I can use Curse and from there on it's 6-0, as I am unphazeable (ingrain) and spikes cannot be removed (ghost type blocks rapid spin).

As you can see, it seems extremely gimmicky and rather impossible to set up (and one has to wonder: if you are able to set up something like this, why not just take the easy way and set up a belly drum or other sort of baton pass chain and sweep the enemy team?). I'm just throwing this out there in hopes of some valuable insights that may make this more viable and less gimmicky - perhaps a way for this Gengar to be useful outside of the specific strategy outlined above so it doesn't just take up a poke slot? A way to deal with sand stream and substitute users?

 

[Jorgen]

Unfortunately Ingrain Smeargle is banned in most serious ADV matches anymore, so this idea isn't going to work.

 

[HUARGH]

Unfortunately Ingrain Smeargle is banned in most serious ADV matches anymore, so this idea isn't going to work.

Wow, really? Since when did that happen? Is there a topic about it?

 

[Mr.E]

Because Tour crybabies don't like Baton Pass.

How exactly does this Gengar work even in the absence of a hard counter like "Substitute users?" You can only Curse every fourth turn with Ingrain and Leftovers, so you barely out-damage Leftovers recovery combined with Spikes. Any team with a recovery option or multiple Flyers/Levitators can simply wait for you to run out of PP. The fourth attack certainly can't cover all possible countermeasures.

Understandably, sometimes you just wanna build a Rube Goldberg machine to dick with people but I can't divine a legitimate competitive use for this set. Perish Song does everything Ghost Curse does better (except some overly contrived 1v1 endgame scenarios, I guess), where you obviously don't want to be self-rooted. If you just want to keep Forretress at bay, well there's Fire Punch.

 

[HUARGH]

Because Tour crybabies don't like Baton Pass.

How exactly does this Gengar work even in the absence of a hard counter like "Substitute users?" You can only Curse every fourth turn with Ingrain and Leftovers, so you barely out-damage Leftovers recovery combined with Spikes. Any team with a recovery option or multiple Flyers/Levitators can simply wait for you to run out of PP. The fourth attack certainly can't cover all possible countermeasures.

Understandably, sometimes you just wanna build a Rube Goldberg machine to dick with people but I can't divine a legitimate competitive use for this set. Perish Song does everything Ghost Curse does better (except some overly contrived 1v1 endgame scenarios, I guess), where you obviously don't want to be self-rooted. If you just want to keep Forretress at bay, well there's Fire Punch.

I've actually tested this out and this works much better with Dusclops due to Pressure, although Dusclops is slower and thus requires (many) speedboosts. Additionally, Dusclops can learn Mean Look.

The reason why this was interesting to me is because it is slightly easier to set up than drumpass. With drumpass you need to be able to swap smeargle in on something that will swap out and usually you get into a cointoss scenario. If you manage to get Smeargle in on Blissey (or a slow Celebi, some Starmies) you can double spore thanks to Natural Cure. With this smeargle, you can use endure/spore/ingrain/baton pass and thus eliminate the need to play a prediction game, additionally you can come in on their phazer, even if it has resttalk (some Suicunes, whirlwind/spikes resttalk Skarmories, ...,). If this had the same effect as drumpassing to Medicham (which is pretty much winning the game save very rare circumstances where the enemy has multiple pokes with Intimidate to swap in or a 252/252 Groudon, which you won't see in OU) but would be easier to set up it would obviously be a viable strategy.

Sadly, as you have already mentioned people can stall your pp by swapping out or just using an aggressive move - additionally, t-tar ruins this thanks to sand stream. After further testing this is not really competitively viable unless you can:

1. Eliminate the threat of sand stream
2. Use Dusclops (for Pressure), which requires a ton of +Spd bp'd to him in order to beat fast substitute and/or status users (such as Sceptile). This makes it harder to set up than drumpass.
3. Have spikes support

Conclusion: maybe fun to troll people with, but not really competitively viable.