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Gen 3 ADV OU Threat List *Onsite

Discussion in 'Ruins of Alph' started by Umby, Oct 29, 2011.

  1. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
    is a Contributor Alumnus

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    1,501
    This list briefly summarizes the roles and abilities of common and significantly impactful Pokemon in the ADV OU metagame.
    By Umby, Triangles, and shrapn3l

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    Aerodactyl
    Abilities: Pressure / Rock Head
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 105 Atk / 65 Def / 60 SpA / 75 SpD / 130 Spe

    Description
    While its movepool is rather limited, Choice Band makes Aerodactyl viable as an OU threat. Combined with its typing and blistering speed, it has just what it needs to be the best cleaner and one of the best revenge killers in the metagame. Aerodactyl is frail, but its offense makes for an excellent defense. When it gets in, its imposing offensive presence will usually force whatever it's switched into to switch out. Because of its move coverage and Speed it, makes an excellent revenge killer for common offensive threats, such as Celebi, Raikou, Superachi, and Dragon Dance Tyranitar. However, Aerodactyl truly shines in the endgame, where its Speed and strength allow it to pick off weakened Pokemon. Rock Slide's 30% flinch rate and STAB makes Aerodactyl even more efficient in this role, giving it a chance to get past even healthy bulky Water-types and Rock resists in a pinch. Although it can't actually straight up counter much of anything, it does resist anything standard Gyarados can throw at it, which is useful considering how few true counters there are for Dragon Dance Gyarados.

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    Blissey
    Abilities: Natural Cure / Serene Grace
    Base Stats: 255 HP / 10 Atk / 10 Def / 75 SpA / 135 SpD / 55 Spe

    Description
    The best special wall and cleric available in OU, Blissey won't be going down too soon after it makes its appearance. Albeit it is potential setup bait, multiple Seismic Tosses/Ice Beams can take their toll and it can easily cripple careless foes with Thunder Wave or Toxic. Foregoing Aromatherapy/Heal Bell, Wish is always a welcome support asset to any team and Calm Mind Blissey can also be a scary, off-color setup if you weren't expecting it. Special sweepers should always have a plan in mind for removing this menace if they want to be successful.

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    Breloom
    Abilities: Effect Spore
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 130 Atk / 80 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 70 Spe

    Description
    This mellow mushroom deserves mention for having an accurate sleeping move with an actual offense behind it (the only other accurate sleepers being Smeargle and Butterfree, neither of which have great attacking stats). After putting something to sleep with Spore, Breloom can bust a sizable hole in things with Focus Punch, even some of the Pokemon that resist it. It doesn't have too many other moves to run an offense with afterwards, but it can stall with Substitute + Leech Seed until something is forced to take a Focus Punch, and can utilize Swords Dance + Sky Uppercut/Brick Break to some effect, with a bit of support. It's a bit of a "one-turn impact" Pokemon, but it can dish out the hurt if you sleep on it. Pun fully intended.

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    Celebi
    Abilities: Natural Cure
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    Celebi, to say the least, is versatile. On defense, it can deter certain threats, such as Snorlax or Suicune, with Leech Seed, force switches from dangerous Pokemon with Perish Song, and makes somewhat of a special tank when it can set up with Calm Mind (a role that is further and commonly bolstered by Leech Seed). Reflect and Heal Beal also make a team player. Switch it over to offense, however, and it's a whole new ball game. Baton Pass allows it to scout for threats, lure in Pokemon for Magneton or Dugtrio to trap, as well as pass 101 HP Substitutes, Calm Minds, or Swords Dances to strong offenders. It can even stand alone with the popular iteration of Calm Mind/Psychic/Giga Drain/HP Fire, a set that has shown particular success against many a stall team and is hard to stop if you let it get rolling. If there's anything else to say, for every weakness Celebi has to exploit, it's got good base stats and just as many resistances to take advantage of to get it in safely and pose a threat.

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    Claydol
    Abilities: Levitate
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 70 Atk / 105 Def / 70 SpA / 120 SpD / 75 Spe

    Description
    Unfortunately, Claydol can't scare Spikes users into switching like other spinners can (except for Forretress, if it isn't using Toxic or some form of Hidden Power), but it resists both Sandstorm and Spikes to effectively negate any residual damage as it comes in to do its job. Later on, Claydol's sturdy defenses gives it a few other jobs, like setting up Reflect/Light Screen, countering Flygon, Salamence, some forms of Tyranitar, and occasionally Gengar if you have Psychic or Light Screen in tow. It's mostly a "threat" towards certain stall teams, as it is possibly the toughest spinner to remove from play.

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    Cloyster
    Abilities: Shell Armor
    Base Stats: 50 HP / 95 Atk / 180 Def / 85 SpA / 45 SpD / 70 Spe

    Description
    Of the three common Spikes users seen in OU, Cloyster's value is being able to escape the evil, magnetic clutches of Magneton. If one's plan for minimizing Spikes layers was to catch Skarmory/Forretress instead of spinning, that alone makes Cloyster dangerous. It's got great Defense for coming in on Swampert and Salamence, scaring them off with STABed Ice Beams, and while its Special Defense is horrid, Water-types in general make for a free switch to set up Spikes or Explode. Of course, you can't neglect its ability to Rapid Spin either. Although held back by its low HP and Special Defense stats, it's a solid utility Pokemon with most of the attributes you'd want from a Spikes user.

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    Dugtrio
    Abilities: Sand Veil / Arena Trap
    Base Stats: 35 HP / 80 Atk / 50 Def / 50 SpA / 70 SpD / 120 Spe

    Description
    The ability trap and destroy other threats is a valuable trait, especially considering Raikou, Tyranitar, Heracross, Celebi, Metagross, and Jirachi are all pretty dangerous/clutch sweepers. Once Dugtrio finds a way in (prediction, revenge kill, or Raikou Thunderbolt/Calm Mind) it will simply ruin their day. Cleaning up other Pokemon that are low on health is not a bad deal either. On its own, Dugtrio is nothing special, with its only outstanding stat being Speed, but those that can be trapped and killed by it must be wary of it.

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    Dusclops
    Abilities: Pressure
    Base Stats: 40 HP / 70 Atk / 130 Def / 60 SpA / 130 SpD / 25 Spe

    Description
    The bulkiest spinblocker in ADV OU, Dusclops is a staple on dedicated stall teams with its excellent all-round tanking and good ability in Pressure. Dusclops can spread status with Will-O-Wisp as well, a handy tool for reducing the effectiveness of physical attackers. With Shadow Ball, Dusclops is also a good answer to Gengar and Starmie as well. However, the bandaged spinblocker is easily Pursuited for large amounts of damage by threats such as Houndoom and the abundant Tyranitar, and is also vulnerable to the common Sandstorm and Spikes. It is also unfortunately setup fodder for the likes of Calm Mind Suicune and Jirachi due to its low offensive prowess and lack of phazing moves. Overall, Dusclops is no major offensive threat to teams, apart from the rare and very underrated Calm Mind set, but it can wall many threats and prevent Rapid Spinners from doing their job.


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    Flygon
    Abilities: Levitate
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 100 Atk / 80 Def / 80 SpA / 80 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    A strong, fast, STABed Earthquake? Yes, please! From a Base 100 Attack and an acceptable base 100 Speed, even bulky Water-types ]will find it tough to deal with Flygon's attacks when piled on to residual damage. QuakeSlide offers good coverage, as always, but Flygon can tack on Hidden Power Bug and Fire Blast to help against Celebi and Skarmory respectively. Flygon's typing and ability also give it a number of useful immunities and resistances, allowing it to work well as a counter to threats such as Tyranitar and any of the usual Electric-types (barring their Hidden Power Ice versions).

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    Forretress
    Abilities: Sturdy
    Base Stats: 75 HP / 90 Atk / 140 Def / 60 SpA / 60 SpD / 40 Spe

    Description
    Forretress may fall in line with Blissey in being potential setup bait, but it's certainly one of the best physical walls in the game. It gets both Spikes and Rapid Spin to take on a full utility role and it's overall bulk is actually greater than Skarmory's, however it lacks a crucial immunity to Earthquake, a phazing move (Roar/Whirlwind), and takes extra damage from Fire-type moves that Skarmory could normally survive (unSTABed, of course). Unlike other spinners, Forretress usually lacks means to hit Gengar on the switch, though if it takes one of the few options that do hit Gengar, it loses Earthquake to hit Magneton and Metagross with. When the job is done, though, Explosion is pretty neat and can help out against last-Pokemon Curselax, among other things. This guy really shines with some Pursuit support from the likes of Houndoom and Tyranitar, and Forretress's alluring Fire weakness is amazing bait to get them in.

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    Gengar
    Abilities: Levitate
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 130 SpA / 75 SpD / 110 Spe

    Description
    Infamous for being unpredictable, Gengar stays true to this creed and is one of the most dangerous Pokemon in OU, especially with the rise in Giga Drain and Will-O-Wisp usage. Gengar's big Special Attack allows it to do the kind of damage some Pokemon get with the same attacks when they are STABed and gets a number of cool immunities and resistances to make up for its frail defenses. On top of being a premiere special attacker and causing havoc with indirect moves such as Hypnosis, Taunt and Destiny Bond, it can even use Explosion to get rid of special walls and surprise a few teams with Mean Look + Perish Song. Gengar's a mixed bag that doesn't lose efficiency through spreading out its repertoire and you never know what it's going to do.

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    Gyarados
    Abilities: Intimidate
    Base Stats: 95 HP / 125 Atk / 79 Def / 60 SpA / 100 SpD / 81 Spe

    Description
    Gyarados has some of the same threatening premises as its big brothers, Salamence and Tyranitar, in being a Dragon Dancing, physical powerhouse, only it has the added effect of being able to switch in and set up on bulky Water-types. Its main drawback is that wields very little power with which to launch a special attacking campaign (though it has the movepool to do so) and that it lacks physical options to take advantage of its highest stat with. However, coupled with Magneton (used to trap its number 1 counter, Skarmory), Gyarados is one of the more potent physical sweepers in ADV. With Intimidate and good all-around bulk, Gyarados can set up multiple Dragon Dances on many threats and function as an excellent late-game cleaner against almost any team archetype. Due to its stat distribution, Gyarados can also go with Roar and/or Thunder Wave as support options, perfect for complementing certain stall teams or setting up slower sweepers, such as Blaziken or Medicham.

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    Heracross
    Abilities: Guts / Swarm
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 125 Atk / 75 Def / 40 SpA / 95 SDef / 85 Spe

    Description
    Heracross has to find its niche on most teams. It doesn't have the greatest stats or typing to get in as often or as safely as Salamence, Tyranitar, or Metagross can, but when it does find an opening, Megahorn alone can cause grief for everyone not named Skarmory (even Salamence takes a sizable dent without any defensive investment). With a Choice Band, the opposition can quickly become hard pressed to counter Heracross without losing HUGE chunks of damage (even Skarmory loses around 75% of its life from Focus Punch), and Substitute + Salac variants are potential comeback kings. This guy can be somewhat difficult to use effectively, but it's certainly a Pokemon to keep an eye out for.

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    Houndoom
    Abilities: Flash Fire / Early Bird
    Base Stats: 75 HP / 90 Atk / 50 Def / 110 SpA / 80 SDef / 90 Spe

    Description
    Houndoom's primary use in the ADV OU metagame is to trap threats such as Celebi, Gengar, Dusclops, and Alakazam with Pursuit and remove them from the game to either open the opposing team up to a threatening sweeper, or remove spinblockers so that spinners such as Forretress can do their job successfully. Houndoom forms an excellent partnership with Forretress, in that Forretress baits Fire-type attacks for Houndoom to gain a Flash Fire boost from, and Houndoom removes spinblockers so that Forretress can successfully do its job of removing hazards from the field. However Houndoom struggles against bulky Water-types not named Swampert (it decimates that with Hidden Power Grass) and is also trapped and killed by the common Dugtrio. Without Will-O-Wisp, Houndoom will also struggle a lot against Gyarados and Salamence (although the latter dies to the rarer Hidden Power Ice). Will-O-Wisp, Counter, and some correct defensive investment can also net a surprise kill on Tyranitar.


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    Jirachi
    Abilities: Serene Grace
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 100 Attack / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 100 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    Offensively, Jirachi is just as dangerous, if not moreso, as Celebi. With the same base stats, Jirachi gets the edge on offensive Calm Mind sets with an extensive special move pool (read as: it gets Thunder/Thunderbolt and the elemental punches). Its Steel typing also allows it to switch in on different sets of threats and attacks, such as Choice Banded HP Flyings and Rock Slides from Aerodactyl or Salamence. It's also got tools to play a supportive role via Wish, Light Screen, Reflect, and Thunder Wave, if those are the kind of tools your team needs to succeed.

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    Jolteon
    Abilities: Serene Grace
    Base Stats: 65 HP / 65 Attack / 60 Def / 110 SpA / 95 SpD / 130 Spe

    Description
    The main niches that Jolteon has over other Electrics, such as Raikou, are the ability to Baton Pass Substitutes, Speed boosts, or simply "dry pass" to a threat to whatever switches in on it, and also its ability Volt Absorb, which gives it more opportunities to switch in on Thunderbolts throughout the game. Jolteon makes a good switch-in to the likes of Gengar and Zapdos, and also is able to counter Raikou with Roar—Roar is a move to watch out for on Jolteon because of the amount of switches that Jolteon forces, and as such its excellence at quickly racking up Spikes damage. Jolteon can also support its team with Wish. However, Jolteon is affected by all forms of passive damage and status, and also lacks overall bulk, so it often struggles to last in longer, slower-paced games. Overall, Jolteon is a very dangerous Pokemon with both offensive and supporting prowess.

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    Magneton
    Abilities: Magnet Pull / Sturdy
    Base Stats: 50 HP / 60 Atk / 95 Def / 120 SpA / 70 SpD / 70 Spe

    Description
    By itself, Magneton's contribution as a threat is merely to trap and destroy Skarmory and Forretress. Extend the scope of things, and Magneton's threat clears the way for other threats, such as Snorlax or Heracross, to lay waste to the opposition. Combining this with Dugtrio creates an infamous duo (an oxymoron?) that can clear out additional threats that would otherwise hinder your sweepers, such as Tyranitar, Celebi, or Jirachi. Magneton is a decent RestTalk user as well, and can serve as a Gengar and somewhat of a Zapdos counter as such.

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    Medicham
    Abilities: Pure Power
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 60 Atk / 75 Def / 60 SpA / 75 SpD / 80 Spe

    Description
    With Pure Power, Medicham reaches a maximum, unboosted Attack stat of 480, which is more than even Slaking can boast. It shares the same boat as Heracross, in finding a proper place to make itself known, but when it does, it hits HARD and can be just as tough to defend as its Bug/Fighting cousin. With a Choice Band, Focus Punch from this monster can KO Skarmory with a good damage roll. It also gets Bulk Up and Recover, for a little bit of staying power, as well as Baton Pass for some variation.

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    Metagross
    Abilities: Clear Body
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 135 Atk / 130 Def / 95 SpA / 90 SpD / 70 Spe

    Description
    Metagross very rarely ends up being a huge threat on its own, as walls such as Milotic, Swampert and Forretress are on every team, but it is the reason that every team needs a bulky Water-type, even more so than the likes of Aerodactyl, Tyranitar, and Salamence, which have other counters such as Claydol. Even Skarmory, whose only real threats to Metagross are impending Spikes and Whirlwind/Roar, is rather susceptible to attack boosts or even critical hits when taking powerful, Choice Banded Meteor Mashes. The most threatening thing about Metagross is certainly Explosion. Metagross rarely pulls off a sweep on its own, but it is incredibly good at clearing the way for one of your other threats to get off a sweep. In cleaning the way for other threats, outside of its powerful Explosion, Metagross also has numerous options for targeting numerous obstacles—HP Grass for Swampert, HP Fire for Forretress, Thunderpunch for Skarmory and Gyarados, and Psychic or Pursuit for Gengar. Use this metal monster to place dents in your opponents team and drill holes with a follow-up sweeper.

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    Milotic
    Abilities: Marvel Scale
    Base Stats: 95 HP / 60 Atk / 79 Def / 100 SpA / 125 SpD / 81 Spe

    Description
    Good HP, great Special Defense and Marvel Scale make Milotic an excellent and very solid bulky Water-type. It does very typical Water-type things, albeit access to Hypnosis is a plus for putting down an incoming Snorlax or Suicune (watch out for Sleep Talk) and Recover gives it an annoying amount of longevity. Definitely worth consideration on any stall team, though if you just need a decent way of dealing with Salamence or just a way to absorb status, you can't go wrong here.

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    Porygon2
    Abilities: Trace
    Base Stats: 85 HP / 80 Atk / 90 Def / 105 SpA / 95 SpD / 60 Spd

    Description
    Porygon2's solid stats and rare ability allow it to fill a unique role in the ADV OU metagame. Its movepool is nothing spectacular, but it is allotted the excellent coverage of the BoltBeam combo, and has access to Recover, which coupled with its good all-around bulk and huge base 105 Special Attack allows it to stick around for a long time and do some decent damage. Although Porygon2 cannot use their Intimidate against them as it can in later gens, it is still an excellent check for both Dragon Dance Salamence and Gyarados, taking little damage from their attacks and OHKOing back with Ice Beam or Thunderbolt respectively. Thanks to Trace, Porygon2 is also a perfect switch-in for slightly less prominent threats such as Flygon, Houndoom, and Jolteon, copying their abilities and becoming immune to their strongest STAB attacks. Perhaps most important for Porygon2 in today's metagame, it is guaranteed to revenge kill the incredibly common Dugtrio by tracing its Arena Trap, making it an excellent partner for Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Tyranitar or Choice Band Heracross, the likes of which Dugtrio otherwise causes major problems. Porygon2 also has access to a few good supports move in Thunder Wave and Toxic, and can alternatively work as a decent set-up sweeper with Sharpen and Return, scaring off phazers such as Skarmory and Suicune with powerful, super-effective Thunderbolts.

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    Raikou
    Abilities: Pressure
    Base Stats: 90 HP / 85 Atk / 75 Def / 115 SpA / 100 SpD / 115 Spe

    Description
    Raikou falls short of the successes of Celebi, Jirachi, and Suicune in recent times, as its typing and defenses neither allow it as many opportunities to switch in nor do they allow for it to be able to take any status and remain as composed. Nevertheless, Raikou is one of the fastest Calm Minders in the ADV OU tier and certainly one of the more dangerous ones. STABed Thunderbolt is always a terror to defend against, due to the risk of paralysis, and HP Grass and Ice are there to back it up against Ground types, as usual.

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    Regice
    Abilities: Clear Body
    Base Stats: 80 HP / 50 Atk / 100 Def / 100 SpA / 200 SpD / 50 Spe

    Description
    Having STAB on even one move in an actual BoltBeam combination is pretty big on its own. Outside of legitimate special walls, such as Blissey, Snorlax, or opposing Regice, STABed Ice Beam backed by a strong Thunderbolt can cause trouble for most teams, as they might find they are unprepared for it. Aside from its special attacking prowess, it also has access to a few surprises, such as Explosion and Focus Punch to make life hard on aforementioned walls. Not a bad deal for a Pokemon whose main purpose is to be a wall and not a sweeper.

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    Salamence
    Abilities: Intimidate
    Base Stats: 95 HP / 135 Atk / 80 Def / 110 SpA / 80 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    A good offensive base stat distribution, a solid offensive movepool, and access Dragon Dance is all that's really needed to make this guy a relevant threat. Each team knows instinctively to carry a bulky Water-type with Ice Beam for Salamence in particular, as it will crush heads by its lonesome later in the game if not properly checked. Don't sleep on it as a support role either. Dragon/Flying offers a number of great resistances to use for defense. Paired with Wish, you've got a pretty sturdy tank with a surprising amount of longevity.

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    Skarmory
    Abilities: Keen Eye / Sturdy
    Base Stats: 65 HP / 80 Atk / 140 Def / 40 SpA / 70 SpD / 70 Spe

    Description
    The undisputed, #1 physical wall in the game. It's renowned for it's lack of physical weakness, multitude of physical resistances, and of course the great Defense stat to back it up. It easily comes in on most physical threats to set up Spikes and uses Whirlwind/Roar to force residual damage on the opposing party. One must be wary of bringing in a Pokemon that allows Skarmory to set up, as the longer it lives, the more Spikes it can set up, and the more damage your team will take.

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    Slaking
    Abilities: Truant
    Base Stats: 150 HP / 160 Atk / 100 Def / 95 SpA / 65 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    Choice Band Slaking is a true terror that can OHKO a lot of Pokemon. Even those that resist its moves will find it tough to switch in too often. Paired with Magneton, simply spamming Shadow Ball can often be enough to make dents in everything until Gengar or Dusclops are gone. Fortunately, Truant gives you some breathing room to plan your defense in the next turn, but Slaking's presence gathers momentum very quickly. It's not seen often, due to its difficulty in use, but if you've got a Pokemon with Protect or a fast Substitute... make sure you keep it alive when this thing rears its head.

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    Snorlax
    Abilities: Immunity / Thick Fat
    Base Stats: 160 HP / 110 Atk / 60 Def / 65 SpA / 110 SpD / 35 Spe

    Description
    Snorlax has fallen a bit from its original glory, what with the common Sand Stream negating Leftovers recovery, thus hindering its prowess (somewhat) as a special wall, but any team not equipped to handle it will find themselves tumbling on a downhill slope. Snorlax's premier Curse set forces every team to have at least one way of dealing with it, as by the time it sets up a second Curse, if you haven't scared it off already, it's probably too late. The problem with this set is that you're forced to choose between Earthquake and Shadow Ball as secondary attacks—one leaves it helpless against Gengar while the other leaves it at the mercy of Metagross, Tyranitar, and Jirachi. That said, Snorlax has just enough options to add a bit of mixup to its role via Fire Blast and Selfdestruct. In this, it can act as somewhat of a lure for destroying shared counters and clearing a path for another member of your team, similar to HP Grass Metagross or Tyranitar. Either way, Snorlax is just one of those Pokemon that you MUST be prepared to handle, as it's longevity and big Attack stat allows it cause big dents in a team and Curse can quickly make it impenetrable.

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    Starmie
    Abilities: Illuminate / Natural Cure
    Base Stats: 60 HP / 75 Atk / 85 Def / 100 SpA / 85 SpD / 115 Spe

    Description
    Starmie seems to find the same reasons to be a great asset in every generation, in that it serves valuable utility purposes in Thunder Wave or Rapid Spin while being a premier special attacker. When it places full focus on its offensive potential, teams could find they are ill prepared to handle it. With great Speed and Special Attack, it makes a great spinner, being able to scare Gengar more readily if that is the opponent's chosen spinblocker, and access to Recover also helps it stay healthy if it isn't immediately able to remove Spikes from the fray.

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    Suicune
    Abilities: Pressure
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 75 Atk / 115 Def / 90 SpA / 115 SpD / 85 Spe

    Description
    Suicune's been a big guy even since the earlier days of ADV, known for having "NO WEAK" once it gets rolling with a few Calm Minds. Traditionally, it functions as a wall, given a nice defensive distribution in its base stats and defensive tools like Reflect and Roar. Calm Mind helps make it a special tank while simultaneously making it an offensive threat even to those that would be its counters (it shrugs off attacks from Snorlax and can Roar it out, outstalls Blissey, Regice won't stand a chance without Psych Up, and Celebi might have to deal with Ice Beam). In recent times, however, its offensive prowess has contributed to shaking up the metagame. Factor in great bulk that shines even without a defensive spread, a decent Speed stat, and a common habit for Zapdos to run well below Suicune's max speed, and an offensive-oriented Suicune can be quite tough to deal with. Having such great defenses also allows for it to be a particular pain with 101 HP Substitutes. Once it finds an opportunity to switch in on something, such as a Water-type, it can sub up to avoid potential status and begin to wreak havoc.

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    Swampert
    Abilities: Torrent
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 110 Atk / 90 Def / 85 SpA / 90 SpD / 60 Spe

    Description
    While Swampert's main appeal is being able to deal with many of Tyranitar's movesets, it actually spreads some decent damage across the board outside of that. 110 base Attack is a nice stat to launch a STABed Earthquake from and the benefits of Torrent boosted Surf/Hydro Pump can turn the tide in a 1v1 matchup. Not to mention the QuakeBeam combo gives Swampert a lot of coverage by its lonesome. EndeavorPert is also fun a gem that can catch a team off guard, particularly against bulky Water-type[/COLOR][/B]s with sand up, if you play your cards right.

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    Tyranitar
    Abilities: Sand Stream
    Base Stats: 100 HP / 134 Atk / 110 Def / 95 SpA / 100 SpD / 61 Spe

    Description
    True to it's name, there's no question that Tyranitar reigns supreme over the ADV OU tier. It's got great stats and typing to defend from all different kinds of angles and an accompanying movepool that diversifies its offense just as well. Sand Stream is also highly influential in the metagame, as it negates Leftovers recovery, making it that much harder for certain Pokemon to take the great damage it's dishing out. While wielding a frightening offense via its physical options (DDTar, Physical Boah, CBTar) that allows it to clear out a good chunk of a team by itself, Tyranitar can also opt to cripple/destroy its teammates' counters through mixed/special options, with moves such as Hidden Power Grass being viable to hurt Swampert, Fire Blast to scare off Skarmory and Forretress, or Pursuit to get rid of Gengar. Its versatility, toughness, and power all combine into a factor that you should always have at least one way of handling when team building.

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    Umbreon
    Abilities: Synchronize
    Base Stats: 95 HP / 65 Atk / 110 Def / 60 SpA / 130 SpD / 65 Spe

    Description
    Umbreon is a very unique threat, in that it isn't normally a threat or counter to anything by itself. Through its common Mean Look + Baton Pass strategy, it creates an environment were other threats can set up a devastating offense with little risk in damage to themselves. This leaves such things as Suicune, Snorlax, or Salamence to boost up without any problems if you trap the right thing, though it makes a wonderful pivot in Baton Pass chains to keep a helpless Pokemon locked in while you beef up as well. Umbreon also has some additional support optionsthrough moves such as Charm and Wish and can pass stat boosts of its own via Curse. Watch out for Taunt users, though. Umbreon's poor offense rarely warrants an attack, and thus is left helpless to Pokemon such as Dragon Dance Gyarados or Gengar that might be using Taunt. Substitute users are also a problem if they come out before it can Mean Look them.

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    Vaporeon
    Abilities: Water Absorb
    Base Stats: 130 HP / 65 Atk / 60 Def / 110 SpA / 95 SpD / 65 Spe

    Description
    Despite its excellent base 110 Special Attack stat, Vaporeon sees its best use as a WishPassing defensive pivot (due to its awesome 130 base HP and ability in Water Absorb), used to provide support for teams with powerful attackers that lack reliable recovery, such as Choice Banders in a general sense. Vaporeon is a good answer to the likes of Metagross and Houndoom, and can also switch in on other Water-types such as Swampert and Milotic and either poison them with Toxic, or set up free Wishes to pass on. Unlike other bulky Water-types, however, it is quite vulnerable to repeated barrages of Rock Slides from Tyranitar due to its comparatively poorer physical bulk. The aquatic kitty is also vulnerable to status as well, and a Toxic-poisoned Vaporeon is not half as effective as it usually would be. Also of note is Vaporeon's ability to Baton Pass. In BP chains, it is the common go-to for defense boosts with Acid Armor, and with a few speed boosts it is also able to Roar out any phazers seeking to get rid of those boosts. Its stellar HP is useful for making good sized Substitutes as well.

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    Zapdos
    Abilities: Pressure
    Base Stats: 90 HP / 90 Atk / 85 Def / 125 SpA / 90 SpD / 100 Spe

    Description
    Zapdos, despite its standout 125 Special Attack, is generally used in a defensive role as a RestTalker, absorbing status and abusing its excellent PP-stalling ability in Pressure. Zapdos works best when partnered with Spikes, in that nearly all Pokemon that switch into Zapdos are grounded, and as such sustain Spikes damage whenever switching in. Zapdos can also work well offensively with either a purely special offensive set—often with Metal Sound to hit switch-ins and make them think twice about staying in (MSdos and Spikes are a match made in heaven)or a mixed offensive set which incorporates Drill Peck to lure in and damage Celebi. Zapdos is also both a good receiver and an excellent lead in Baton Pass chains, and is very adept at passing Substitutes and/or Agility boosts around the team, in that its STAB Thunderbolt frightens phazers such as Skarmory and Suicune, and it can pass unhindered.
  2. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    I guess it'd be a good thing to say that you shouldn't take these as "Top 10 Common Threats," as evidenced by my placement of Charizard. Keep in mind that I almost dropped Starmie in there too, as I'll explain later as well.
  3. Pocket

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    Awesome read, Umby! It really brought me back to the past.

    I think I agree with the placement of these threats, nicely done.

    Other mons that I believe deserves a mention is CB Slaking. It does a really great job at breaking through walls with its enormous attack. Pokemon like TTar and Metagross cant take hits from Slaking consistently. It also has decent bulk to check DDMence and other dangerous threats.

    Flygon is pretty nifty, too, imo. Has some useful resistances and Speed and decent Attack. It can utilize its CB Set to put the hurt with STAB EQ, a Screech Set that can check Curselax and abuse Spikes, or a mixed Attacker with Fire Blast to dispatch Skarmories / Forretresses.

    Although Gyarados has coverage issues, it does have 1 advantage over DDTar and DDMence - it can set up on bulky Water like Swampert or Milotic. It needs Magneton support, and must be wary of Aerodactyl, Zapdos, Salamence, and Gyarados with Thunder, however :/
  4. kd24

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    maybe in the old adv meta but from adv now a days which is primarily tour, id argue celebi over zard because of how equally devastating a cm set can be (hp fire/giga drain/psychic) but also celebis ability to support the team with swords dance and calm minded baton passes.
  5. Hero Kid

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    Celebi deserves a a mention as a top threat, as CM celebi an really tear through teams. Snorlax and Flygon could also be included as honorable mentions. Overall good job man.
  6. gene

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    heracross is a weakling
  7. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    OP Edited for Honorable Mentions.

    Thanks, Pocket. I forgot about Slaking. I'll see if I can write it in.

    Flygon, I'm on the fence about. STAB EQ is great and all, but as the main move for a CBer it just allows so much to switch in. It's at the opposite end of the CB prediction spectrum to where something like Aerodactyl is, since an opponent will have a bit more room to move around. It's a big guy, but I'd have to take a consensus on whether or not teams are threatened by it.

    Gyara's pretty lame, and for the reasons you mentioned that it has to be wary of. The advantage of setting up on a Water-type pales in comparison to the better type coverage Tyranitar and Salamence get, especially considering Tyranitar can still wreck Milotic's face, especially with Spikes down. It only really has the advantage of setting up on Swampert, and that's only an advantage if the opponent has nothing else to deal with Gyarados.

    This is true, but I'd say Charizard is a bit more threatening since it can Focus Punch to get rid of Snorlax/Blissey, run Sunny Day to protect itself a bit from Waters, and doesn't get trapped by Dugtrio. As I mentioned in my edit, BP Celebi is really cool, I just didn't emphasize that the support it provides is potentially threatening. From my point of view, it seems 3 Attack Celebi only works effectively when its on a team structured like Jabba's (the whole CM + 3 attack Pokemon lineup) where none of the Pokemon care about getting KO'd so much as they want to do as much damage as possible so that the next Pokemon can pile it on. Standalone, though, I think Charizard has an offensive advantage over Celebi just from Blaze and STAB Fire Blast. I'll have to give it a review, since I never use 3 attack Celebi to have experienced it.
  8. Mekkah

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    I would hope so.

    Other than Charizard, I agree with these 100%. Charizard may put up great numbers in PetayaSunnyDayBlazeLand, but most of the time he will be without any of those, and he will likely only get one attack off under those circumstances. That alone makes him hard to take seriously - I expect the top 10 offensive threats to be able to deliver strong offense more consistently. The thing about Charizard's typing is that while he can theoretically deliver a ton of damage even to things that resist him, there is also usually several Pokemon on the opponent's team that resist most if not all of the things he throws out. Or at least his STAB.

    I don't know if any of the honorable mentions really deserve to be there over him, I'd rather just knock down Raikou and everything below him a peg and call it a day. Or even Snorlax (but I can see why you didn't put him up there).
  9. 420

    420

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    you're right on the money with tyranitar at #1, but charizard? Really? Put gyarados over him, or snorlax. OR calm mind suicune
  10. gene

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    flygon is a top 10 threat easily, but most people don't use his best set which is 4 attacks @leftovers

    gyarados is horrible
  11. Hero Kid

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    I would break this threat into 2 parts. Top 10 offensive ADV OU threats, and Top 10 Defensive ADV OU threats. As most defensive ADV pokemon impose big threats on the ADV OU metagame also.
  12. Pocket

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    Yea, I agree, 4-attack Flygon (QuakeSlide, HP Bug, Fire Blast) is a great late-game cleaner. Screech isn't too shabby over HP Bug to even break through defensive mons like Snorlax, imo.

    That's some impressive damage output :o. Have you tried Metal Sound Zapdos? After Metal Sound, Zapdos 2HKOs most Curselax with TBolt, so it may possibly be more reliable than nailing Snorlax 3x with Thunder. Magneton wreaked havoc when I used it a long time ago, with the same strategy, so I can definitely see Zapdos pulling it off way better.

    EDIT: ah yea, forgot about Regice :/
  13. Umby

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    I tried Metal Sound Zapdos a long time ago, but don't remember it working effectively. Maybe I'll try it out again soon, but I won't be able to use it to my advantage against Regice.
  14. JabbaTheGriffin

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    Yeah I'd say modern adv play definitely shifts this list a lot. Heracross is nowhere near a #2 threat with the prevalence of Superachi (which I think should be separated from Raikou and placed a lot higher on the list, no bias I swear!). It's just a bit too slow to keep up with the metagame. Celebi should also be extremely high on the list for the combination of full out cmer + baton passing ability. The fact that they have different counters just fucks with the opponent if they don't know what you have.

    Charizard is one of those Pokemon that *can* do a ton of damage but *isn't going to* so I'd definitely say he's more of an honorable mention than Suicune who can do bulky and offensive and is ridiculously hard to take down through its bulk, power, and coverage. Snorlax is also a pretty major threat in today's metagame. Sure there are a lot of TTars/Metagross around, but they hate taking para from bslam. Not to mention offensive ones with eq/boom are the ones you really need to watch out for because they're paralyzing something and taking down at least one mon in the process.
  15. TheFourthChaser

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    Even if the list was made with more of an "old" adv meta in mind I feel the list is pretty accurate minus Charizard. The reasoning used to keep out things like Snorlax or Suicune can easily be applied to Zard except the 2 are much more practical, not needing a berry and weather to do damage. I've seen and used offensive Suicune to good effect, it's definitely something to think about and deserves the 10th spot much more.
  16. Umby

    Umby I'm gonna bury you in the ground~
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    Edited Suicune into my number 10.

    I acknowledge Celebi as a really good contender, but I'm still not fully convinced it's top 10 material. Definitely amongst the next 5 in line in my book. Maybe I'm resilient to change to where I find the "new" Celebi overrated?

    My 11-15 would honestly look like Slaking, Starmie, Celebi, Flygon, Snorlax.
  17. Torchic

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    According to smogon ADV OU tier, I barely see Medicham and Slaking in ADV Battles.
    Heracross is good but not so good.

    My list of top offensive threat should be: Tyranitar, Gengar, Salamence, Zapdos, Metagross, Snorlax, Aerodactyl, Dugtrio, Suicune, Celebi or Jirachi.
  18. New World Order

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    I have played ADV for about a month, so my opinion really doesn't hold any weight. But from my experience, the top 10 threats are:
    1. Tyranitar: Single handedly makes Endure+Reversal not viable, most versatile Poke in the tier, fantastic movepool, great all round stats, and can fulfill any role you want it to whether it be sweeper, tank, lure, stallbreaker.
    2. Jirachi: Okay, so SubCM Jirachi is a god even in ADV, Superachi and CM Wish are both fantastic sets as well. It has great typing, great bulk, and the most annoying ability on Earth.
    3. Salamence: Even though this thing has to rely on Hidden Power Flying for damage, it still shits on like half the Pokes in the tier. It is without a doubt the #1 sweeper.
    4. Metagross: This. Thing. Is. A. Beast. It tanks physical hits like a boss and can absolutely pummel with its incredible physical attack. Very few things can take hits from this thing, and when its done its job, it can go boom.
    5. Suicune: Taking out Suicune is like beating the hardest boss in a game, the thing just has so much natural bulk that you cannot take it down in one shot without Explosion. It can just CM, Rest when needed, and tear shit apart.
    6. Gengar: Dangerous for the simple reason that it catches Explosion. So many people rely on Explosion to take out the likes of Suicune and Snorlax its not even funny. It also is one of the most versatile Pokemon in the Tier and you never know what set its running until its too late.
    7. Flygon: This thing is just plain so underrated. It resists Quakeslide and can use Quakeslide coverage itself to hit hard. Flygon's excellent typing makes it easy to come in and out, making it an ideal hit and run pokemon.
    8. Aerodactyl: There is nothing more rage inducing than CB Rock Slide flinches from Aerodactyl. As long as there's an Aerodactly still in the wings, the match is never over.
    9. Celebi: Leech Seed+CM+Recover+STAB is one of the most annoying sets to deal with. You really can't beat it with status since it can just switch out. You really can't set up on it since you get Leech Seeded. The single reason so much shit run Hidden Power Bug.
    10. Snorlax: Sure this guy is not the same one man army as GSC Snorlax. But it absolutely cannot be underestimated. Most people's responses to this thing is phaze and deal with later, because there really is no safe way to deal with it. You mentioned Tyranitar+Gengar+Metagross trio shuts Snorlax down completely. Well, thats just more argument that Snorlax is beast, I mean, you need THREE elite Pokemon to keep it under control.
  19. Pocket

    Pocket Apo, the astronaut's best friend >:3
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    ^ It was interesting to receive some feedback about the current ADV generation; thanks Jabba and New World Order :d

    Btw, you don't need TTar, Gengar, and Metagross to counter Snorlax. I think Meta alone is enough - switch in when Lax is cursing and Explode KO. Even the physically-inclined Lax will be left with only ~16% after an Explosion; CB Meta's Explosion should be a definite OHKO even at +2.
  20. Bluewind

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    Which doesn't mean Snorlax has to stay in to take the Explosion or that it can't just wear you down on the switch with Earthquake; not to mention a Body Slam paralysis on the switch would allow Snorlax to subsequently hit Metagross with Earthquake, removing the need of prediction once it has gone below certain HP.

    On another note, this was a pretty nice read.
  21. blarajan

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    Atleast in my experiences with the Smogon tour, if your team didn't have a Celebi, it wasn't a good team.
  22. Pocket

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    Yea, I guess I was exaggerating that you can pack Metagross and call it a day. CB Meta has a bad tendency to get raped by Magneton, too. Snorlax is definitely a top mon in this gen that requires multiple checks / resists. Although, I wouldn't say people are packing Ttar, Metagross, and Gengar solely to counter Snorlax, but more because each one of them are awesome offensive force.

    Celebi hard-counters the common Swampert that cock-blocks Ttar, Aerodactyl, Flygon, etc, which is probably why it's such a good utility / offensive mon. Celebi + Swampert is also why Heracross comes in handy, providing offense that are not walled by these two.
  23. Torchic

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    When I play on PO ADV these days, I did't see one Swampert. My tar's Hp Grass is crying.

    Hera can be revenge KOed by Duggy easily. Some team will get trouble with Swampert or other bulky waters if their Celebi is KOed by HP Bug Duggy with some prior damage.
  24. Umby

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    A number of things can be revenge killed by Dugtrio easily. That doesn't stop them from being a top threat, if that's what you're implying.
  25. M Dragon

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    There are 4 threats that are above the rest: Tyranitar, Suicune, Snorlax and Celebi.

    Tyranitar, as you said, is the king of OU. Eternal sandstorm, great stats, it can be a great hard hitter, a wall breaker, the best late game sweeper of the game (DDtar is a monster).


    Suicune is really hard to beat if played well. The defensive version is really hard to beat (especially with pressure wasting PPs), but the really dangerous version (on this metagame) is the offensive one, especially with Sub. This monster can set up on things like Bliss, it can beat defensive Celebi (most of them), Defensive Zapdos and most of the common Suicune switchings. Things like offensive CM Celebi or Superachi can beat this, but ironically, a defensive set with CM + roar will destroy them (and nearly every cm sweeper other than raikou).
    It can take 3 CB aero rock slides (and aero only has 8 rock slides vs pressure suicune). Sand + Spikes can be annoying, but thats true for so many things.
    If a pokemon can destroy stall (the Subcm set can easily destroy standard stall), and it can wall and destroy a lot of sweepers (it can take 3 CB HP flying from a Salamence, which is pretty impressive), it definitely deserves being much higher.


    Celebi, the pokemon that never dies. It can be a great support pokemon for a stall team (heal bell, reflect, perish song...), it can be one of the best bulky sweepers of the game with CM + leech seed, and it's really annoying to face. If you give it a free turn for whatever reason, it might pass a Swords Dance or a CM to some sweeper, and that could be gg for you. And it can also use an offensive CM set, that can easily destroy some of the common bulky CM set counters.

    I think you are underrating Snorlax a lot. It's not as good on this metagame as it used to be, but it's still the best last pokemon sweeper of the game (maybe with the exception of crocune), it could even surprise Skarm with a mixed set with Fire Blast, or even explode by surprise. And you can never forget the curse set (not nearly as good as gsc lax though), capable of sweeping any team with the right support or if used on the right moment. Yes, I agree, it's much worse on this metagame, but I think it deserves a place on that top 10 list.

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