Gen 3 ADV Viability Ranking (OU)

Should Suicune move down to A+? Should Celebi follow suit?

I don't really agree on Suicune going down, it's still the best water mon in the game and most of his sets provide a huge presence for any team. About Celebi, I'd say this is a bit harder, it's a mon able to check a lot of things but has a really hard time w/ the big3 (Ttar / Gengar / Suicune) (offensive cune melts celebi btw) so yeah I think it should drop to high A
Should Skarm move above Metagross?

No on this one, Skarm is what defines ADV, it is like of the most influencial pokemon in the tier and so should stay ahead of Metagross. Yeah CB Metagross is great wallbreaker w/ access to Explosion but I don't think a mon influencing a tier like Skarm should be dropped lower than Metagross

Should Metagross instead move ahead of Zapdos?

Yes, specially defensive Zapdos isn't good at all w/ the last mechanics of Sleep Talk and then, offensive zapdos is still good but Metagross is overall much versatile right now and deserves to be higher than Zapdos.

Should Raikou drop to B?

Yeah, high B seems fine for Raikou, it's still one of the most scary sweeper in the late game but it needs to set up some CM and most of the time people won't allow Raikou to set up freely.


Also, I think Alakazam could even see a raise and going to low C rank, pretty much like Raikou, it's fucking scary once you got the CM and its speed is really great in this tier where only Aerodactyl is faster (unboosted mon obviously) while having a speedtie w/ Dugtrio. Also have a decent movepool w/ HP Grass / Fire Punch / Psychic etc...
 
For what it's worth, I think Celebi is more S-tier than Suicune. Much more flexible with Recover, and it has that "guess the set wrong and you'll lose the game"-factor that p.much nothing else has in ADV (thinking about BP sets here). You can tailor its set and EVs to counter almost anything in the tier too, it's insane.

Everyone seems to agree with Meta > Zap, so I did that. I actually moved down Zap below Snorlax now since the Specially Defensive set took quite the hit from the STalk mechanic change.

I also moved down Raikou to top B. Dropped Articuno to D (most of the time, you will want to use Zapdos and STalk mechs hurt it). Put Milotic and Gyarados ahead of Claydol (I agree with Cowboy Dan's points).

Typhlito, honestly Swellow sounds pretty bad, it has m.much 0 utility outside of hitting "hard" only under the right conditions and not even reliably if you have to count on Sleep Talk to go your way. You need CB to actually do damages, and you need the Guts boost to be worth running over anything else. Lot of conditions for something that has the hardest time of its life getting on the field in the first place. Coverage is kinda shit too. I'd rather run Aero most of the time.
 

Typhlito

One Active Dawg
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I mean, I wouldn't really compare swellow with band mence and aero just because they tend to be more consistent but for the role they play, it does have a very solid niche over them. It's definitely no A rank but it has its uses. Being a cleaner that is not afraid of status is pretty big and the opportunity to get statused appears more often than not due to status just being really good. As for getting those conditions to get it statused, it's not very difficult from the time I used it since mons like gar love using status to pokemon it can't really hurt much like lax and while it's frail, it's bulky enough to take a weaker move like celebis psychic if it absolutely has to. That's why it should at least be ranked.
 

Cheryl.

Celesteela is Life

Gardevoir for D

Gardevoir isn't a very good mon, but it has some merits that make me believe it is D rank material. It has the ability Trace, which lets it copy the opponent's ability, which is quite useful at times, like against Dugtrio. While Porygon2 is a better Duggy counter due to having more bulk, Gardevoir can still kill Dugtrio and then try to trap the opposing team. It also comes in handy against mons like Salamence and Gyarados, since Gardevoir can Trace Intimidate and limit their sweeping potential. Gardevoir also has a crazy movepool, with coverage moves like Ice Punch and Thunderbolt, along with nice supporting moves in Will-O-Wisp,Mean Look to trap Blissey, Hypnosis, and Destiny Bond. Sadly, Gardevoir's pros sort of end here, as it has very bad physical bulk, faces a lot of competiton from the other Psychic types, and it's mediocre 80 Speed mean it won't be sweeping anytime soon unless it has a Salac Berry boost under it's belt. But overall, with it's good movepool and Trace to back it up, I think Gardevoir has enough merit to be at least a D rank. (Probably between Tauros and Machamp, or lower or higher if you want.)
 

I'm going to make a nomination that may seem somewhat controversial, I'm going to nominate Claydol to go down to C; Yes, even though it checks Flygon, and DD Tar to a certain extent, and even though it is one of the rare spinners in the tier, it should go down, here's why. Claydol does not perform well on a game to game basis, and more often than not it just gets off a spin and dies; now the alternate set of resistances to the other common spinner of the tier(although to be fair sp.attacker is way more common now) may seem attractive, but it is literally a sitting duck for so many other things in the tier, unless it booms; But if you're using it for Spin and Boom, why would you not use something like Forretress? Forretress is easily spin blocked by Gengar I admit but that's where you step up your game and pair it with something like Lum Pursuit TTar to keep control of the hazards on your side of the field. Forretress gets trapped by Magneton?(Use EQ Forry btw) So does Skarmory, doesn't stop it from being amazing solely cause its consistent. The other thing is what kind of build does Claydol even fit on? Stall? It'd much rather have a Forretress spinning, or if push comes to shove a Starmie; Bulky offense has no business touching Claydol, especially seeing how it can usually get away without a spinner, and would much rather have something like Swampert to do the stuff that Claydol usually does. See the thing is not that Claydol is useless, its just that I can usually find better Pokemon to occupy the same slots, and even if it means I'd have to use 2 mons to make up for the role compression that Claydol offers, I'd still go for using two more standard(and usually better mons) than Claydol.
 

eren

break necks, i'm the chiropractor
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Gardevoir for D

Gardevoir isn't a very good mon, but it has some merits that make me believe it is D rank material. It has the ability Trace, which lets it copy the opponent's ability, which is quite useful at times, like against Dugtrio. While Porygon2 is a better Duggy counter due to having more bulk, Gardevoir can still kill Dugtrio and then try to trap the opposing team. It also comes in handy against mons like Salamence and Gyarados, since Gardevoir can Trace Intimidate and limit their sweeping potential. Gardevoir also has a crazy movepool, with coverage moves like Ice Punch and Thunderbolt, along with nice supporting moves in Will-O-Wisp,Mean Look to trap Blissey, Hypnosis, and Destiny Bond. Sadly, Gardevoir's pros sort of end here, as it has very bad physical bulk, faces a lot of competiton from the other Psychic types, and it's mediocre 80 Speed mean it won't be sweeping anytime soon unless it has a Salac Berry boost under it's belt. But overall, with it's good movepool and Trace to back it up, I think Gardevoir has enough merit to be at least a D rank. (Probably between Tauros and Machamp, or lower or higher if you want.)
hi BrandonBeast! It seems you a bit newer to adv simply by your post. you mention it has trace, which is a neat ability. but, traced intimidate does not drop the opponent's attack in adv, so gardevoir in reality does not check that all. furthermore, gardevoir is severly outdone by gengar with the movesrt you mentioned, and gar even has explosion to boot. if gard is seen at all in ou play, it is with a taunt / wisp / hypno / hp grass, cm, fire punch, psychic set with some sort of boom and ttar luring on the team, as well as the team usually having some sort of spikes to weaken ttar if you cant lure it effectively. however, you would usually use zam in this type of role if you wanted a frail lategame cm sweeper, it also has 120 speed... so... also, tauros and machamp have their own distinct niche, band and bu sweeper respectively, that allow them to reside in d. all in all, I feel gard shouldn't be in d.

also may make a nom soon if im bored and remember about this
 
hi BrandonBeast! It seems you a bit newer to adv simply by your post. you mention it has trace, which is a neat ability. but, traced intimidate does not drop the opponent's attack in adv, so gardevoir in reality does not check that all. furthermore, gardevoir is severly outdone by gengar with the movesrt you mentioned, and gar even has explosion to boot. if gard is seen at all in ou play, it is with a taunt / wisp / hypno / hp grass, cm, fire punch, psychic set with some sort of boom and ttar luring on the team, as well as the team usually having some sort of spikes to weaken ttar if you cant lure it effectively. however, you would usually use zam in this type of role if you wanted a frail lategame cm sweeper. also, tauros and machamp have their own distinct niche, band and bu sweeper respectively, that allow them to reside in d. all in all, I feel gard shouldn't be in d.
The thing is that even with a CM set, I'd much rather use Jirachi which completely outclasses Gardevoir in everyway. The thing is that Gardevoir doesn't have any justifiable niche that'd really make anyone want to use it over say Gengar or Jirachi; and Gardevoir's middling defense stat and speed also make it harder to exploit the Trace ability like Porygon2 would, Gardevoir finds it much harder to actually exploit its ability and punish the opponent for revenging with Dug/Mag. And even if Gardevoir does manage to revenge trap them it'll probably be too chipped then to put in any real work, so I agree with slurmz when I say that Gardevoir is better off unranked.
 

M Dragon

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I'm going to make a nomination that may seem somewhat controversial, I'm going to nominate Claydol to go down to C; Yes, even though it checks Flygon, and DD Tar to a certain extent, and even though it is one of the rare spinners in the tier, it should go down, here's why. Claydol does not perform well on a game to game basis, and more often than not it just gets off a spin and dies; now the alternate set of resistances to the other common spinner of the tier(although to be fair sp.attacker is way more common now) may seem attractive, but it is literally a sitting duck for so many other things in the tier, unless it booms; But if you're using it for Spin and Boom, why would you not use something like Forretress? Forretress is easily spin blocked by Gengar I admit but that's where you step up your game and pair it with something like Lum Pursuit TTar to keep control of the hazards on your side of the field. Forretress gets trapped by Magneton?(Use EQ Forry btw) So does Skarmory, doesn't stop it from being amazing solely cause its consistent. The other thing is what kind of build does Claydol even fit on? Stall? It'd much rather have a Forretress spinning, or if push comes to shove a Starmie; Bulky offense has no business touching Claydol, especially seeing how it can usually get away without a spinner, and would much rather have something like Swampert to do the stuff that Claydol usually does. See the thing is not that Claydol is useless, its just that I can usually find better Pokemon to occupy the same slots, and even if it means I'd have to use 2 mons to make up for the role compression that Claydol offers, I'd still go for using two more standard(and usually better mons) than Claydol.
Comparing Clay to Forry is dumb
Claydol is a better spinner, it is the only spinner that is not affected by Spikes and has a very useful rock resist.

Claydol might not be that good in this metagame, but its definitely a B ranked mon
 
Yeah claydol is definitely not C material, but it is kind of ass, I can see it being knocked down a peg within B. On an unrelated note, how do people feel about moving jolteon up within A? With ST zapdos being nerfed, its niche as a somewhat defensively reliable electric type has become more important. It's a really nice offensive pivot for teams that need a check to stuff like gengar, offensive starmie and opposing electrics. In particular it works really nicely on offensive spikes teams as with its awesome speed and decent power it forces a lot of switches which it can capitalize on with baton pass and roar to abuse spikes. The aforementioned speed and power also make it a pretty good late game cleaner.
 
Regarding Gardevoir: I think it has a niche as simultaneous Dugtrio revenge killer and Tyranitar lure:

Gardevoir (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Trace
EVs: 228 Def / 64 SAtk / 216 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Icy Wind
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt / Fire Punch / Hypnosis

Ice Punch needs 342 SAtk to guarantee a dead 212/175 Dugtrio, in which case it will either be killed by some frequent and important physical assaults or miss out on outspeeding adamant Heracross. This is where Icy Wind comes into play: Icy Wind followed up by Psychic comfortably kills Dugtrio even with little investment.

As an added bonus, it tends to lure in Tyranitar, which, thanks to Icy Wind, cannot Dragon Dance effectively and is immediately picked off by one's own Dugtrio as soon as it decides to kill Gardevoir.

So it can clear the way for overall better special sweepers that struggle with Tyranitar such as Jirachi or Celebi without Grass type moves. The EV spread allows it to outspeed adamant Heracross and jolly Smeargle and survive Rock Slide from CB Tyranitar in sand or Double-Edge from CB Salamence.

Use with a Dugtrio of your own and at least 2 typical Dugtrio victims.
 

Typhlito

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While it's not that big of a deal in general (unless it actually happens), one thing that does keep jolt from coming in on any electric attack is the risk of twave since its ability does not prevent it from not getting paralyzed. That's something ST zapdos used to not care about at all. While twave is not the most common move outside its normal users, it is something that is usually in the back of your mind for when you want to use it to check electrics.
 
Yeah it's definitely not a perfect answer to them it doesn't love toxic or gengars status moves either, but I feel the meta has been kind enough to it recently to warrant moving it up.
 
Garde is OK. I'm not such a fan but I can see it's niche, and yeah it might deserve a slot: I'd still like to see what other people have to say though so a little discussion.

I think Claydol could drop a bit......I mean on paper it does oh so much but in practice it does little, as it gets outclassed by a lot and has a lot of issues (mostly being weak af) that it can't get past. Plus the metagame is becoming steadily less Spikes-oriented which means its niche as a spinner will decrease in value. Probably bottom 3 of B.

  • Jolt could definitely go up, as offense teams tend to dominate nowadays and Jolt usually cleans house against them while having options against stall too. It actually does a ton it can do as Dan mentioned (Passing Subs/Wishes/Roaring to stack Spikes damage, or just going full offensive with Status, it can also mix and match a lot of these functions on the set depending on what's needed). I also have no idea what Typhlito is saying that the risk of Thunder Wave holds Jolteon down as only Magneton uses it frequently (Jolteon and Zapdos use it pretty infrequently and mostly to block set up by like DDTar, in their case I'd actually be more scared by a Toxic which affects Jolt a lot in the long run), and even if TWave is present it still does a ton, especially in this metagame, which should merit a bump.
 

Typhlito

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Well... While a toxic on jolteon is bad in the long run (as is the case for many pokemon), I would think that it getting paralyzed is much more immediately crippling since jolt's hit and run approach allows it to be able to work around toxic more or less. Imo, jolt's speed is the biggest reason it is able to pull off its sets. That hit and run approach makes things like spikes more detrimental to jolt than toxic in the long run. Not to mention that many pokemon that can learn electric attacks that jolt can absorb can also use twave. As infrequent as it could be, it's a move that can be thrown around and jolt has a hard time doing anything if it's caught by it.

However, cowboy Dan does make good points for jolt since it makes for a good late game cleaner and the risk of twave doesn't make its ability any worse. Like I said earlier, in general, twave would not be an issue anyway since its not everywhere but it's out there and you have to prepare for it. I personally love using jolteon because of all its plus's. I'm just saying that it's no zapdos when it comes to being a defensive electric type. It does well using its support and offensive options but you can't ignore the things that hold it back if you want to use it as your electric check. I'm not saying it's not A material. Just listing the facts that I found from using it.
 
Thanks for posting jira, I've thought about Voir a lot before but ultimately ended up concluding it was a bad Alakazam. However, that set looks really good and I'll definitely be trying it out.

I agree that Claydol tends to underperform... a lot... but C is too low. However, I would drop it from where it stands in B, perhaps all the way to the bottom.

Thunder Wave is clearly worse than Toxic for Jolteon, that's not really a debate. Jolt will (attack and) BP out before the poison starts to take its toll. It's obviously inconvenient but I'd take it every time if paralysis is the alternative, if you're paralyzed you actually die to Dugtrio among a million other things. Plus, being poisoned might let you switch into a Gengar Hypnosis. If you're really worried about losing health, use Wish. It's really easy to get the health back when you're facing down the #1 Poke that's Toxicing you, Protect Skarm. Jolt isn't a one Poke army against other Electrics anyway, you use it to help you dance around them, you don't consistently hard counter them with it. Anyway yes, Jolt continues to be amazing, better than ever with the Sleep Talk nerf, so I support a slight raise. It's got some other stuff it can use as well! Danilo used to have a cool offense with SubPass @ Liechi on a physical offense team, for example. As for where it should go, I think it's slightly better than Starmie (and I think Flygon is too for that matter, but that's a different discussion).
 
Triangles 2016 ADV OU Viability Ranking

S Rank
Tyranitar - versatile and powerful mon, its the best in the tier. Sand is awesome too and makes ADV a much better meta.
Swampert - the #2 mon in ADV, its only gotten stronger from the STalk changes - Skarm and Pert have super strong synergy and SkarmPert is a really safe and strong combo that you WILL win with, especially in sand
Skarmory - also gotten a lot stronger from the sleep talk changes, Toxic skarm is so strong right now
Gengar - Still good but its not the number 2 for me any more, its certainly a class below the 3 above but not quite A rank, its still a very strong mon and access to hypnosis, wisp, and boom keeps it in S. Hypno gar is stronger after Stalk changes too

A Rank
Celebi - also versatile and strong, BP Celebi of all kinds is particularly good
Suicune - not S rank any more, but offensive CM is strong as ever and Crocune is actually still usable because it just gets in and stays in, as opposed to pivoting like a sleep talk zap
Blissey - goes with skarm and pert very nicely on a boring team. Still covers about a 3rd of the meta very nicely
Aerodactyl - Awesome cleaner mon, being the fastest mon in the game with a spammable move with a 95% chance to flinch is a great formula for donking.
Metagross - great mon for busting shit, and very versatile too. Boom is an op move. Try psychic hp fire meta, u wont regret it
Heracross - This guy gets in and fucks shit up, whether its last mon MopCross or a lead chesto set or whatever. Banded hera is very powerful. Everyone sleeps on beetle, me included
Dugtrio - Everyone knows what this guy does
Jirachi - Superachi is such a strong mon, and wish rachi of all kinds is also good. Might even deserve to be higher up than this
Jolteon - Strong at all stages of the game, scouting, racking up spikes DMG, and killing shit in late. Definitely deserves A.
Salamence - a bit lower than before, this isnt the meta for physically inclined mences, but mixmence is always a powerful set that can fuck shit up.
Snorlax - you'll probably notice the lowness of this mon here. This is not the meta to be lax in. EQ fire blast or curseboom sets are still decent, but old school curse is not gonna be doing any sweeping, nor any walling, apart from on very specific tailored teams.

B Rank
Porygon2 - as well as its obvious niche, its great in general for checking a lot of the meta and spreading status. Recover and the ability to trace natural cure is strong.
Magneton - does its job. Some mag teams are better in this meta, but some are worse.
Zapdos - obvious reasons why this is so low, big nerf to its main set. Offensive BP Zapdos is still strong and very much useful, but in a way thats nerfed a bit too, because its obvious what it is, and you immediately play for it. Probably marginally weaker than jolt at doing the same job, but EQ/spikes immunity is useful on some builds
Raikou - 3 electrics in a row. Can sweep late on and do kou things, not much change here, still weak to and strong vs the same shit and matchups etc
Starmie - spins very well, and off star can hurt ill-prepared teams.
Milotic - Hypno milo recieved quite a big buff, but Milo has a lot of weaknesses, such as being poisoned or blown up on, and being hit by sand and spikes.
Forry - usable, but the fact that you can't rly run a sleep talker any more to support pursuit tar vs hypnogar hurts him a bit. That said, in some matchups hes very strong. Try zap cannon !
Claydol - The second actual spinner. Rock resist and sand and spikes immune are good vs offenses, but it still is not a good trading mon. Boom claydol with atk investment is a nice surprise.
Flygon - struggles a bit in that it used to love coming in on restalk zap and forcing plays with spikes, and its lost that facet to its play. That said, its a good rock resist, and tox hits pert very nicely if you're good at predicting.
Regice - Overall good attacker, good boomer, good emergency check. Being rock weak and slow sucks as ever.
Machamp - A lot of teams have nothing to properly beat Bulk Up Machamp. ITs a mon that threatens from turn 1 in the lead slot.
Ludicolo - can be a very dangerous rain sweeper or an annoying ass bitch with toxic. Most teams are weak to one of these two sets

C Rank
Vaporeon - Wish is strong as ever, Brutus used cursepass vap which i thought was very coo. Vap has obvious weaknesses tho.
Gyarados - can now run taunt DD as theres no restalk zap, which by extension means that mag is no longer a needed partner. Twave gyara is great for catching aeros. However gyara still isnt that good :(
Charizard - Everyone sleeps on this guy, but subpunch zard is a monster in particular, and sunny zard sets can fuck shit up too.
Kingdra - a more one-dimensional ludicolo with a marginally better typing.
Cloyster - best used as an offensive spiker on offensive teams. This guy isnt good at spinning tho
Houndoom - Hits really hard. Will-O is always strong, and so is Pursuit and a stab fire move.
Camerupt - unique STABs and typing which allows it to come into gar nicely, and ability to boom make this a cool momentum mon for ofensive teams
Alakazam - Strong late game cleaner, if u feel like a really fast special mon but not jolt, zam is your next best bet. It also hits really hard. You can even use Trick.
Venusaur - a useful lead with sleep powder. Leech seed is always an annoyance
Medicham - Powerful but frail.
Smeargle - strong as a suicide spiker. I'd recommend WoW on him as a 2nd status for surprise and cheese. Also blah blah drumpass
Rhydon - Hits very hard on the right team, with a band or a sub set.
Regirock - checks a lot of shit in a pinch, and can boom on waters or Celebi to facilitate some sweep
Moltres - WoW is very OP as ever, one of my fave moves. Agility is also legit to clean in late
Breloom - Spore is very strong, especially with no Zap to take it any more. HP bug lures celebi like a charm. Still has a lot of weak points, above all its duggability
Steelix - useful on some stalls. Its a pert with worse general walling capabilities, but a toxic immune and can tank booms. Also gets boom itself
Donphan - its like a even physically fatter pert, but more one dimensional. Has weaknesses, but can work on some teams. You can spin if you really want with it too
Tauros - the choice fast normal stab user. Intimidate is handy, great if you're a good predictor
Weezing- checks a lot of physicals in a pinch - has OP burn move and might be stronger now restalk zap is gone and crocune is used less. Can run boom too.
Dusclops - Not great but also usable, due to getting OP burn move. Its kind of a spinblocker, and Focus Punch is great for luring ttar. It also once ran restalk too tho :(
Dodrio - Nice lead/BP scouter. Strong on trapping based teams
Blaziken - Banded focus punch is ridiculously strong, best on a P2 + other dug weaks focused team. Good offensive synergy with DDers
Dragonite - don't use it as a bad Mence, runa Subpunch, which some teams are ill prepared for
Slaking - very powerful but unreliable poke
Lunatone - Hypnosis and the ability to Pass CMs while being immune to spikes and sand is a nice niche, along with checking mence in a pinch. Dont use solrock ever tho

I would use all these and more in SPL willingly. This is just my subjective power rankings. Disagree all you want and ill provide justification for my case, and also let me know if I've forgot a mon.
 
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M Dragon

The north wind
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I think you heavily underrate Suicune, Starmie, Salamence, Flygon and Zapdos, and you overrate Swampert and maybe Skarm
Skarm and Swamp are 2 amazing mons but nowhere close to S rank, skarm because mag and pert because its nowhere as dominating as other mons such as Suicune (it is a monster defensively but offensively its not a big threat unless the rare cursepert, and hp grass is everywhere)

In fact with new sleep mechanics i think Gengar is closer to TTar now, and it is also better than Suicune and Celebi by a big margin
 
Just because everyone's running boring stall teams in SPL doesn't mean they're good!

Ninjax Rankings:
S Rank:
Tyranitar: The Best. Period
Gengar: Its gotten a bunch better as ResTalk Zapdos and Regice are no longer there to try and play around it. In any case easily the most multi-dimensional threat in the tier which should not be slept on
Celebi: Very versatile and effective at whatever role you slot it into, BP also tends to screw a lot of people over.
Suicune: Yeah CroCune has gotten a bunch easier to power through but Offensive CM absolutely trucks this metagame, no joke.

A Rank:
Metagross: CB Explosion with its typing is really nice, it can get the crucial breakthrough for a lot of offensive teams while also utility checking half the tier (switches into TTar, Aero, Non-EQ Lax, Zapdos (assuming you have more than the obligatory HP investment, fat CBGross is surprisingly good) and Gengar fairly comfortably and stops all 5, as well as taking a hit from any special attacker before booming on them). Its other sets are pretty effective too. Definitely the best in A and there could be an argument for it to go up to S.
Skarmory: There's a ton of lures for this and Mag is as good as ever, nevertheless, Spikes+walling some dangerous Physical mons is too good for it to be lower.
Salamence: It's just so versatile offensively that you can't really play against it, DD is trash but Mixed is one of the best stallbreakers in the tier (a lot of balanced/stall teams can only really try to pivot in Gengar/Starmie to try and force Mence out), Fast CB stops a bunch of dangerous threats while still hitting pretty hard, and Wish is underrated af for its tanking ability and just Wish in general.
Snorlax: Sand+Spikes+CB Metagross/Tyranitar/Boom Gengar being everywhere sucks but the fact is that it stops special attackers while not being a momentum drain. CurseBoom and lead sets are nearly guaranteed to get a kill or two while CurseLax does actually end up sweeping a bunch (pairing EQ-Lax with a Pursuiter is a forgotten but effective art).
Jirachi: Top notch CM sweeper, offensive CM is really hard to deal with while WishCM does a really nice job on support while setting up on Bliss/Non-EQ Lax. Its a rock resist which is really nice to play around Aero in the early/mid game. WishTect is underrated and even DPunch can do things.
Dugtrio: Traps half the tier.
Zapdos: ResTalk Zapdos is nerfed af but the offensive sets still truck so much, Toxic is lethal and BPing can be neat too. Don't forget all its other options! (Screens, Agility, METAL SOUND)
Swampert: Probably underrating this but yeah offensive teams usually have a way to get through it while it does absolutely nothing vs Spikes teams/Stall in general, its a great glue mon but yeah.
Jolteon:
Heracross:
Flygon:
Starmie:
Blissey:
Magneton:
Porygon2:

B Rank: See OP.
 
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Sapientia

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What do you guys think about Articuno after the Sleep Talk nerf? It is probably the single Pokemon that is hit the hardest by the new mechanics, since Sleep Talk used to be its only viable option.

While it invites some of the most threating Pokemon into battle for free, it used to have the unique niche of being the only sure-fire answer to any Suicune (Vaporeon loses to Toxic and HP Electric/Grass) and 99% of all Celebi (Swords Dance/HP Rock being the only exception).

It was able to wall offensive Starmie and bulky Gengar outside of Sand Stream and even Jirachi without Thunderbolt and CM Blissey were not that much of a problem with Haze. As a matter of fact, Kingdra's Hydro Pump in Rain and Salamence's Fire Blast do less than 50% and can only be only four times due to Pressure, on top of their inaccuracy.

+1 Suicune Hydro Pump vs. Articuno: 155-183 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Starmie Thunderbolt vs. Articuno: 108-128 (28.1 - 33.3%) -- 91.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 Jirachi Fire Punch vs. Articuno: 127-150 (33 - 39%) -- 9.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Blissey Thunderbolt vs. Articuno: 98-116 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- 0.2% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. Articuno in Rain: 160-189 (41.6 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Salamence Fire Blast vs. Articuno: 159-188 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Since the weak Ice Beam was only useful for hurting Gengar and Celebi as well as scaring off Salamence and Aerodactyl, it is not that much of a loss. Heal Bell helps it to circumvent the sleep duration problem, which is especially important as so many Pokemon (Tyranitar, Metagross, Salamence, Aerodactyl, ...) can now switch into it for free and immediately threaten it. Rest users such as Snorlax and Suicune also benefit from Heal Bell and maybe even Rest Zapdos, Skarmory, Swampert or Gyarados are worth a try alongside Articuno. The very common Swampert gives it plenty of opportunities to come in and go for it.

Articuno @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef / 4 Spd
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Haze / Roar
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
 

Funbot28

Breaking hearts since '09
is a Pre-Contributor
What would you guys think if we should put Tyranitar in it's own rank (S+), as I can definitely see it above Cune, Celebi, and Gar due to how much it shapes the metagame in contrast to them (basically invalidating Leftovers recovery for a majority of mons), and I think classing it alongside them is a tad bit an understatement.
 
S+ should be reserved for things like Snorlax in GSC OU, or Primal Groudon in ORAS Ubers. Tyranitar is nowhere near as dominant as those - arguably less dominant than RBY Tauros too for example, which I wouldn't put in S+ - and shouldn't get a S+ rank.

Having others in a S- rank is more fine but still questionable imo.