chaos
Owner
Ok, lets get this clear from the start. Don't go offtopic in this topic, I don't want your argument about ______________ because the last topic just went completely OT and out of control. I really don't think people understand what the tiers are especially since the last topic I posted was going every which way in confusion and there was even a post by "Snapple" about how there isn't any confusion about the tiers.
The tiers represent how much a Pokemon is used in the base metagame. The base metagame is the metagame with all the Pokemon currently in play. From the base metagame, we split it into OU/Standard and Uber, a faux tier used to ban Pokemon that unbalance the metagame in question. From now on we will use the term "ban tier" to describe these faux tiers.
We currently have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
From here, we have too many Pokemon lumped in OU and only the best of the best seem to get use. We can split OU into UU, and add a ban tier of "BL" to UU to balance out the Pokemon.
We currently have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
BL [faux tier]
UU
Now, only in Advance do we have enough Pokemon to split this further into NU. Because there is not a noticable amount of Pokemon being split, we do not have enough Pokemon to effectively create a faux tier.
We finally have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
BL [faux tier]
UU
NU
Now listen up. The tiers don't represent just power, so stop trying to put Venusaur in OU. It isn't OU, nobody uses it in tournaments. Because it is not OU, it is automatically UU. Since it is considered too good for UU, we bump it up to the ban tier of BL.
Since I have made it clear that the tiers represent usage, lets go back to power. People want to know which Pokemon are good. Now lets think about this: "since we are basing standards on which Pokemon are used in a competitive enviroment (namely, what you would use in a tournament), would someone over use a bad Pokemon?" No. People want to win, and since people like to use the best Pokemon, we have a correlation between usage and power. The problem comes around when people group Pokemon obviously meant for the BL tier in the OU tier and it becomes a meaningless list of what people think is strong. When it's subjective like that, arguments occur and nobody is happy and it can't really be consistent.
I tried to explain this in a way that everyone can understand. Stop trying to rename the tiers, and stop going offtopic about why you think Venusaur should be OU because it isn't OU. How should I rearrange this list?
Ubers
Note: Because Smogon UU Rules do not allow Borderlines in the Underused metagame (unlike many other websites), this category is used to differentiate the Standard Pokémon that are not as commonly used, but can play well or decently in the Standard metagame or are too powerful for Underused.
What the tiers are and how they are calculated[12:26AM] chaos: ok because people are still stuck on whether the tiers represent power or not
[12:26AM] chaos: and they think "ok i like venusaur; its a strong pokemon. it is now in the ou category because i think ou represents power"
[12:27AM] chaos: "wait doesnt ou represent power i think venusaur is strong. ou"
[12:27AM] chaos: and then everyone is like no the tiers represent usage no i think they represent power and then snapple comes in out of nowhere "nobody is confused with the tiers"
[12:27AM] chaos: Originally Posted by Fat Snapple
I really don't think anyone is confused by the tiers as they are.
[12:28AM] Jumpman16: yeah i read that
[12:28AM] Jumpman16: thanks forums poster Snapple
[12:28AM] chaos: locked topic
[12:28AM] chaos: posting new one
The tiers represent how much a Pokemon is used in the base metagame. The base metagame is the metagame with all the Pokemon currently in play. From the base metagame, we split it into OU/Standard and Uber, a faux tier used to ban Pokemon that unbalance the metagame in question. From now on we will use the term "ban tier" to describe these faux tiers.
We currently have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
From here, we have too many Pokemon lumped in OU and only the best of the best seem to get use. We can split OU into UU, and add a ban tier of "BL" to UU to balance out the Pokemon.
We currently have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
BL [faux tier]
UU
Now, only in Advance do we have enough Pokemon to split this further into NU. Because there is not a noticable amount of Pokemon being split, we do not have enough Pokemon to effectively create a faux tier.
We finally have:
Uber [faux tier, also used as a generic term to reference a metagame with all pokemon included]
OU
BL [faux tier]
UU
NU
Now listen up. The tiers don't represent just power, so stop trying to put Venusaur in OU. It isn't OU, nobody uses it in tournaments. Because it is not OU, it is automatically UU. Since it is considered too good for UU, we bump it up to the ban tier of BL.
Since I have made it clear that the tiers represent usage, lets go back to power. People want to know which Pokemon are good. Now lets think about this: "since we are basing standards on which Pokemon are used in a competitive enviroment (namely, what you would use in a tournament), would someone over use a bad Pokemon?" No. People want to win, and since people like to use the best Pokemon, we have a correlation between usage and power. The problem comes around when people group Pokemon obviously meant for the BL tier in the OU tier and it becomes a meaningless list of what people think is strong. When it's subjective like that, arguments occur and nobody is happy and it can't really be consistent.
I tried to explain this in a way that everyone can understand. Stop trying to rename the tiers, and stop going offtopic about why you think Venusaur should be OU because it isn't OU. How should I rearrange this list?
Ubers
- Deoxys
- Deoxys-E
- Deoxys-F
- Deoxys-L
- Groudon
- Ho-oh
- Kyogre
- Latias
- Latios
- Lugia
- Mew
- Mewtwo
- Rayquaza
- Wobbuffet
- Wynaut
- Aerodactyl
- Alakazam
- Blaziken
- Blissey
- Breloom
- Celebi
- Charizard
- Claydol
- Donphan
- Dragonite
- Dugtrio
- Dusclops
- Exeggutor
- Flygon
- Forretress
- Gardevoir
- Gengar
- Gyarados
- Heracross
- Jirachi
- Jolteon
- Ludicolo
- Magneton
- Marowak
- Medicham
- Metagross
- Milotic
- Moltres
- Ninjask
- Raikou
- Regice
- Regirock
- Rhydon
- Salamence
- Sceptile
- Skarmory
- Slaking
- Snorlax
- Starmie
- Steelix
- Suicune
- Swampert
- Tauros
- Tyranitar
- Umbreon
- Vaporeon
- Venusaur
- Weezing
- Zapdos
Note: Because Smogon UU Rules do not allow Borderlines in the Underused metagame (unlike many other websites), this category is used to differentiate the Standard Pokémon that are not as commonly used, but can play well or decently in the Standard metagame or are too powerful for Underused.
- Arcanine
- Armaldo
- Articuno
- Chansey
- Cloyster
- Crobat
- Dodrio
- Entei
- Espeon
- Hariyama
- Houndoom
- Jumpluff
- Jynx
- Kadabra
- Kingdra
- Lapras
- Machamp
- Miltank
- Porygon2
- Registeel
- Scizor
- Slowbro
- Smeargle
- Swellow
- Typhlosion
- Ursaring
- Zangoose
- Absol
- Aggron
- Altaria
- Ampharos
- Arbok
- Azumarill
- Banette
- Bellossom
- Blastoise
- Butterfree
- Camerupt
- Cacturne
- Clefable
- Cradily
- Dunsparce
- Electabuzz
- Electrode
- Exploud
- Fearow
- Feraligatr
- Flareon
- Gligar
- Golduck
- Golem
- Gorebyss
- Granbull
- Grumpig
- Hitmonchan
- Hitmonlee
- Hitmontop
- Hypno
- Kabutops
- Kangaskhan
- Kingler
- Lanturn
- Linoone
- Lunatone
- Magmar
- Manectric
- Mantine
- Meganium
- Misdreavus
- Mr. Mime
- Muk
- Nidoking
- Nidoqueen
- Ninetales
- Octillery
- Omastar
- Persian
- Pinsir
- Politoed
- Poliwrath
- Primeape
- Quagsire
- Qwilfish
- Raichu
- Rapidash
- Sableye
- Sandslash
- Scyther
- Seviper
- Sharpedo
- Shedinja
- Shiftry
- Slowking
- Sneasel
- Solrock
- Stantler
- Tangela
- Tentacruel
- Victreebel
- Vileplume
- Walrein
- Xatu
- Yanma
- Aipom
- Ariados
- Beedrill
- Beautifly
- Castform
- Chimecho
- Corsola
- Crawdaunt
- Delcatty
- Delibird
- Dewgong
- Ditto
- Dustox
- Farfetch'd
- Furret
- Girafarig
- Glalie
- Huntail
- Illumise
- Kecleon
- Ledian
- Lickitung
- Luvdisc
- Magcargo
- Masquerain
- Mawile
- Mightyena
- Minun
- Murkrow
- Noctowl
- Nosepass
- Parasect
- Pelipper
- Pidgeot
- Piloswine
- Plusle
- Raticate
- Relicanth
- Seaking
- Shuckle
- Spinda
- Sudowoodo
- Sunflora
- Swalot
- Togetic
- Torkoal
- Trapinch
- Tropius
- Unown
- Venomoth
- Volbeat
- Wailord
- Whiscash
- Wigglytuff