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Aegislash

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Bryce, Oct 25, 2013.

  1. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Not sure if there needs to be an Automize or a Special attacking set since they seem medicore in ubers.

    [Pros]
    <ul>
    <li>Amazing typing with resistances to many common attacking types as well as immunity to Fighting,Normal and Poison.It's typing also makes it a solid check to the feared Xerneas</li>
    <li>Terrific stats with base 150 defenses in Shield forme and base 150 in both attacking stats while in Blade forme.</li>
    <li>Gets unresisted Ghost+Fighting coverage alongside STAB Iron Head to nail Fairy-types.</li>
    <li>Fantastic ability letting it have the necessary stats depending on the move selected.</li>
    <li>It's signature move King's Shield lets it safely change to it's Shield forme and has the nice effect of lowering opponent's Attack two stages if they have used a contact move that turn.</li>
    <li>Resistance to Stealth Rock and immunity to Toxic Spikes.</li>

    </ul>

    [Cons]
    <ul>
    <li>Low Speed and HP stat.</li>
    <li>Although it has many resistances and immunities,it's weak to common Ground,Dark and Ghost type moves.</li>
    <li>Lack of diversity within it's sets.</li>
    </ul>

    <p>Aegislash @ Leftovers <br />
    Ability: Stance Change<br />
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SpDef <br />
    Sassy Nature (+SpDef, -Spe)<br />
    -Gyro Ball/Iron Head<br />
    -Toxic/Shadow Sneak<br />
    -Sacred Sword<br />
    -King's Shield</p>

    </li>A set designed to counter Xerneas and non-Fire Blast Mewtwo and it's Mega Evolutions.</li>
    <li>Gyro Ball is needed to OHKO a healthy +2 Xerneas. While Iron Head can be used for more consistency. Sacred Sword hits Excadrill.</li>
    <li>King's Shield is required to safely switch to it's Shield forme after using an attack.</li>
    <li>Leftovers provide a useful 6.25% recovery every turn.</li>
    <li>Toxic provide some residual damage and keeps Bulk Up Mega Mewtwo-X. It also makes sure other pokemons can't switch in freely. But Shadow Sneak is another option to revenge kill Mewtwo more easily.</li>
    <li>Appreciates Wish support.</li>

    <strong>Pok├ęBank changes</strong>
    <li>Gets Groudon which is a solid counter to Aegislash .<li>
    <li>Physically defensive Arceus formes are also very good counters to Aegislash,since King's Shield doesn't protect it against status moves like Will-O-Wisp.</li>
    <li>Kyogre brings auto-rain for 5 turns removing Aegislash's Fire weakness, helping it to switch into Mewtwo with Fire Blast more easily.</li>
    <li>Ho-Oh and Darkrai can also check Aegislash.</li>
    <li>Can check Latios,which gave many stall teams a headache last gen.</li>
    <li>Air Balloon is a cool item which allows it to check SD Normal Arceus better avoiding Earthquake and lets it switch into Excadrill.</li>
    <li>Darkrai can revenge kill Aegislash with it's Life Orb set after some prior damage, doing 72% to 85% damage to it's King's Shield+3 attacks set and 75% to 89% to it's SD set. Can also put it to sleep using Dark Void which bypass King's Shield.</li>
    <li>Another Bulky Ground type counter in Landorus-T.</li>

    [Checks and Counters]
    <li>Bulky Ground-types like Hippowdon and Gliscor are good counters.</li>
    <li>Yvetal is another solid counter being able to switch in and hit it with STAB Dark Aura boosted Dark Pulse.</li>
    <li>Garchomp can be used as an offensive check.</li>
    <li>Will-O-Wisp users with decent bulk and not weak to Shadow Sneak are good answers.<li>Specs Kyogre can usually come rather safely and hit it hard,possibly OHKOing,but won't enjoy getting hit by Toxic.
    <li>Strong Fire type attackers like Heatran can OHKO Aegislash, but must be careful of Sacred Sword when switching in.</li>
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2013
  2. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    This is official, not pokebank, so no Ho-Oh and other unreleased mons.
  3. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Ok, removed pokebank section.
  4. Melee Mewtwo

    Melee Mewtwo Is a Fox main.
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    Oh, lol sorry I missed it was under the pokebank section.

    this is what you had (open)

    <strong>Pok├ęBank changes</strong>
    <li>Gets Groudon which is a solid counter to Aegislash .<li>
    <li>Physically defensive Arceus formes are also very good counters to Aegislash,since King's Shield doesn't protect it against status moves like Will-O-Wisp.</li>
    <li>Ho-Oh and Darkrai can also check Aegislash. Everything else is more or less neutral.</li>


    Also, you should probably add a spdef set with Gyro ball since it's a great check to xerneas and Mewtwo
  5. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    lol alright.I'll add the SpDef set.But Iron Head seems superior over Gyro Ball since it has more pp and more power vs most other mons. Although not as strong as Gyro Ball, it's still strong enough to safely check Xerneas and Mewtwo.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  6. Melee Mewtwo

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    I'm p sure you need Gyro to OHKO Xerneas or something but I'm getting this second hand so idk.
  7. Zebraiken

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    Using Xerneas defensive stats (126 / 95 / 98) from the research threads + 150 base Attack for stance change Aegislash:

    252+ Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 336-396 (85.27 - 100.5%) -- 6.25% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 336-396 (85.27 - 100.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ Atk Aegislash Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 84-100 (21.31 - 25.38%)

    I think Iron Head would generally be preferable, since Aegislash isn't -that- slow to really make Gyro Ball consistently effective, but I also haven't used it yet so take that for granted as of now.

    edit: Oh you mean SDef, I'll calc that as well to confirm. 60 base Speed for Gyro Ball calcs, with no EVs, no IVs, and a negative nature. It sits at 112 Speed at absolute minimum.

    0 Atk Aegislash Gyro Ball (72 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 230-272 (58.37 - 69.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 254-302 (64.46 - 76.64%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Aegislash Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 64-76 (16.24 - 19.28%) -- possible 4HKO after Stealth Rock

    0 Atk Aegislash Gyro Ball (87 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 145-172 (41.07 - 48.72%) -- 76.56% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Aegislash Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 135-159 (38.24 - 45.04%) -- 6.25% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    0 Atk Aegislash Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mewtwo: 134-162 (37.96 - 45.89%) -- 10.94% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    This seems like a mediocre idea, I think.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  8. Melee Mewtwo

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    Gyro on Xerneas would have to be a +2 since you would probably bring it in as it Geomancy's. General consistency is an issue so you could probably just have it slashed.
  9. alexwolf

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    Aegislash doesn't get WoW. Also, on the SpD set you should probably slash Assault Vest and make a spread that can 2HKO Xerneas with Iron Head + Shadow Sneak.
  10. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Ah sorry,I thought Aegislash had gotten Will-O-Wisp through TM.I'll fix it.Regarding Assault Vest,the only use of attack moves will be an issue since Aegislash's usefulness,especially in ubers lies within it's defensive capabilities.Having 60/60/60 defenses right after using a move will be pretty troublesome for it.So I'm not quite sure.Also,the SD set should be able to do that anyway since a +2 Hidden Power Ground won't KO.And I'll give Gyro Ball a mention to nail +2 Xerneas,but I still believe Iron Head should be the first choice.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  11. alexwolf

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    But Aegishield should switch out after KOing Xerneas. You are supposed to tank an attack from a special sweeper and OHKO it. Then the opponent brings in a check and forces you out regardless of in which stance you are. Anyway, you are right that the SD set can do this anyway so i don't know if there is any merit to an Assault Vest set.
  12. superstar

    superstar

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    Consider making a King's Shield + 3 Attacks set? I've found that it is often more useful to have the coverage of both Secret Sword as well as being able to kill Xerneas with Iron Head. It's difficult to set up an SD and even more difficult to sweep with it. Could also be mentioned in set options under Swords Dance set I suppose

    Air Balloon is a good Pokebank option to help beat Earthquake Extremekiller

    Weakness policy is interesting since it lets you set up an SD, take a hit from a Ghost or Dark attack you will likely survive, and then wreck everything at +4, but kinda gimmicky
  13. Melee Mewtwo

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    yeah the king's shield plus 3 attacks is more what I had in mind for spdef set
  14. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Ah I see. In that case I'll change the SpDef set to a Bulky King's Shield+3 attacks set,with the main purpose of a Xerneas and Mewtwo counter(the pure spdef set was looking medicore to me,especially without Will-O-Wisp. Also added Air Balloon,Darkrai and Landorus-T in the pokebank section. By the way,do you guys think there should be an Automize set or a Special/Mixed set?If there needs to be an Automize set,I'll require some help for the speed tiers.
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  15. Xiammes

    Xiammes

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    Yeah Aegislash doesn't get the chance to set up in Ubers, its best to run King Shield + 3 attacks. Normally Shadow Sneak and sacred sword.

    I am running gyroball over iron head for the guarantee kill on Xerneas after it sets up, with defog, its easy to get rid of stealth rocks.

    Also running a balloon on Aegislash has been doing wonders, extreme killer Arcues is nearly completely walled by this set, the only way out is if he predicts a king shield and sd's up, which it makes it optimal for you to attack during these decisions with sacred sword. Shadow Force bypasses King Shield but if you run a normal type mon, you completely wall extremekiller.
  16. Donkey

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    I don't think Swords Dance is going to be viable on Aegislash at all. You lose to basically every other Swords Dancer in the game, are slow as fuck and get raped by Foul Play because you are so slow, and you're only going to be able to set up on things like CM Arceus-Grass, CM Arceus-Fight, Xerneas (unless it's +2 which means you have to waste all of your HP killing it), choice lock mons (which are maybe less viable with the addition of Xerneas?) and Mewtwo without a fire move. King's shield also doesn't block Will-O-Wisp, so suddenly you lose to every support Arceus form, Giratina-A, Giratina-O, etc. Stuff like Stalltwo and Sableye may even make a comeback in this meta.

    The only useful set is probably going to be something like this:
    Aegislash (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Stance Change
    EVs: 240 HP / 16 Def / 252 SDef
    Sassy Nature (+SDef, -Spd)
    - King's Shield
    - Gyro Ball/Iron Head (Gyro needs to be first slash on Sdef set IMO otherwise you cannot beat a 100% +2 Xerneas)
    - Sacred Sword (Hits Excadrill, Lucario, etc)
    - Toxic/Shadow Sneak

    Toxic prevents: CM Arceus, Groudon, Y-God, etc from freely switching in on you. Shadow Sneak revenges +1 Mewtwo slightly more consistently, although generally you are still going to have to be taking an attack.

    The biggest benefit of Toxic>Shadow Sneak is the new Bulk Up Mewtwo-X. If Mewtwo-X carries Fire Punch, Toxic is much more reliable than Shadow Sneak.

    This set works as a pivot on basically every type of team due to the amazing resistances it offers.
    trickroom likes this.
  17. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    Yea that set seems to be an ideal SpDef set. Although I disagree about removing Swords Dance. If you have a Swords Dance boost when the said WoWers switch in, you can actually beat the Will-O-Wisp users if you are carrying Lum Berry. At +2 Aegislash does 60% on average with Iron Head to 252 HP Arceus assuming neutral hit followed up by 30% on average from Shadow Sneak,this should be enough to sweep late game. Also unless you have a strong super effective attack on Aegi, it's very hard to OHKO him meaning if you can get a free Swords Dance on a choice locked move or on Xerneas,you can usually set up once more reaching +4. The additional effect of King's Shield will also provide it with opportunities to set up either lowering their attack or forcing them to switch. A +4 Shadow Sneak is just as strong as an Adamant Earth Plate Groudon's Earthquake. But the biggest point is, most of the Ubers metagame isn't here yet so Ubers is basically OU+Xerneas+Yvetal+Mewtwo. And in the current metagame, SD Aegislash is certainly a good set. While I agree,SD will no longer be it's primary set once pokebank is here,I believe it will be at least viable(with Lum). Also,thanks for the SpDef set,I wasn't really sure about how that set should be. I'll replace the current one with that.
  18. Haruno

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    You can't run swords dance at all since aegislash absolutely needs all three attacking moves to defeat the big four mons in ubers (aegis, mewtwo, xern, yveltal) thus practically mandating sacred sword/sneak/iron head a brave nature would probably be preferred to speed tie with other underspeeding aegislash though those are a tossup. HP fire is also an acceptable option to nail forry and shadow claw is also a viable move over shadow sneak since you find that you might not necessarily need the priority.
  19. Edgar

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    If you're running brave nature, why not Gyro Ball?
  20. Haruno

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    It's still too fast to have a decently powered gyro ball.
  21. Edgar

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    No it's not.... 85 speed:.....
  22. Haruno

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    My point exactly, which will mandate at least 340 speed in order for gyro ball to start to outdamage iron head. To put it into perspective a base 99 with 252spd and a positive nature only hits 327 speed which is slightly more powerful than iron head but not that many mons hit that benchmark where gyro ball outdamages iron head
  23. Xiammes

    Xiammes

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    After Xerneas sets up, Gyroball is 1hko while Iron head relies on stealth rocks. You are not going to be attacking with steel type moves that often, and Gyroball does its job doing more damage to set up sweepers with Gryo Balls, the real reason you should be using iron head is the 30% flinch rate, which Aegislash is too slow to make use of.
  24. Bryce

    Bryce Lun

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    I don't understand how Aegislash needs all 3 moves to beat the 'big 4' of ubers since Iron Head+Shadow Sneak is enough. SD Aegislash is supposed to be a cleaner,not a dedicated check. So SD Aegi doesn't have to beat everything. Also,there is a SpDef King's Shield+3 attacks set which is made specifically for countering Xerneas and Mewtwo.

    Regarding Gyro Ball,it's an option on the SpDef set but not usable on the SD set since Iron Head is superior in every situation except against a +2 Xerneas and even if it can live an Iron Head,it gets finished off by a priority Shadow Sneak.
  25. Xiammes

    Xiammes

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    It needs sacred sword to deal with Dialga/Ferrothorn/Arcues-N

    You might be able to play mind games with swords dance if you plan on countering Arcues-N, if they predict a kingshield but you SD. There are other speed boosting mons in ubers where Gyro ball will be more appreciated.

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