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After the Rain... (Peaked #32 on Dream World OU)

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Forte.EXE, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    [​IMG]

    Introduction: Well, this happens to be the second time I'm typing this (Firefox inexplicably crashed the first time), so I'll get straight to the point. Meta-game is screwed up, didn't see much point in going for a high position on the LeaderBoard when everyone's just abusing the most broken Pokemon as possible. So, I decided to just screw around and test as much as I wanted before Suspect starts up. Seeing as Suspect has already begun, and I can already see people calling for Politoed's (or rather, Drizzle's) blood, I figured I'd post this team now. Oh, and I figured I'd say this here, just in case anyone actually reads this part:

    Pokemon Online's ranking system is completely retarded. I've had battles that would be +0, -20 variation. That's a terrible system, and it needs to be replaced as soon as possible. And no, that is not an invitation to bombard me with "then YOU fix it" replies.

    Team at a Glance
    _|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_
    Type-Chart (open)
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Genosekuto @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Download
    Nature: Hasty (+Spe, -Def)
    EVs: 4 Atk | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Bug Buzz
    [​IMG] - U-turn
    [​IMG] - Ice Beam
    [​IMG] - Thunder

    Choice Scarf Genosekuto is such a hard-stop to so many Weather inducing Pokemon. Here are some calcs that show just how good Genosekuto is against all Weather Pokemon:

    +1 Bug Buzz vs Tyranitar (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 50.4 ~ 59.4% (Sandstorm)
    +1 Ice Beam vs Hippowdon (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 58.5 ~ 69%
    +0 Bug Buzz vs Abomasnow (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 57.8 ~ 68.7%
    +0 Thunder vs Politoed (252/252 EVs, +Nature): 46.8 ~ 55.2% (Rain)

    As you can see, pretty much every important Weather starter is 2HKOed by Genosekuto, even with the bulkiest Special Defense spread available. And, seeing as most of those Pokemon don't actually use Special bulk, most of them would be OHKOed by one of Genosekuto's attacks. Bug Buzz/Thunder/Ice Beam provides impeccable coverage that's resisted by nothing, while U-turn is still a great scouting attack. Another good thing about Genosekuto is that, in Heavy Rain, its weakness to Fire-type attacks is mitigated slightly. Now, that's not a GREAT thing, but paired up with its useful resistances (11/17), it can switch in a few times with its decent defenses. Flamethrower is obviously passed up on this set because it won't be doing jack in the Rain, and most of the Pokemon I'd hit with Flamethrower don't especially like Thunder (bar Nattorei, which is 3HKOed by +1 Bug Buzz).

    Common Lead Match-Ups (open)
    [​IMG] - Scarfed U-turn to break the Focus Sash, then go to Breloom (if my opponent doesn't have Shadow Tag Shandera), or just Scarfed Bug Buzz.

    [​IMG] - Scarfed U-turn to Politoed, finish it off with Hydro Pump or Ice Beam. They'll either have set up Stealth Rock (not too bad), or have used Fire Blast (perfect).

    [​IMG] - +1 Ice Beam to KO, not really a problem here.

    [​IMG] - U-turn out for some good damage on whatever they switch in (it's unlikely they'll just leave Tyranitar in).

    [​IMG] - U-turn out, still not a problem yet.

    [​IMG] - They'll either use Stealth Rock or Fire Blast. Same situation as Azelf, U-turn out (to break the Balloon/Focus Sash should they have one), Politoed takes a Fire Blast with minimal damage, Hydro Pump.

    [​IMG] - Scarfed Thunder will 2HKO at +0, and I don't think anything less than Scarf Hydro Pump will OHKO me back. I could also U-turn out (does more than 50% at +1) to Politoed/Toxicroak.


    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Politoed @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Drizzle
    Nature: Timid (+Spe, -Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Hydro Pump
    [​IMG] - Ice Beam
    [​IMG] - Focus Blast
    [​IMG] - Hidden Power [Electric]

    In previous Generations, having a Politoed was pretty much a joke. Its stats weren't great, and it didn't do anything that really stood out from any other bulky Water-type from Gen II and up. Gen V rolls around, and Politoed finally finds a niche in the OU enviorment in Drizzle. With Drizzle summoning up Heavy Rain, Rain Dance teams no longer have to carry Pokemon to set up Rain, freeing up slots for sweepers and other Pokemon to counter opposing Weather teams. Timid, Choice Scarf, and 252 Speed EVs lets Politoed hit 193, enough to out-run +Spe Shaymin-S without a Choice Scarf of its own. With a Choice Scarf, after Tyranitar's been dealt with, Politoed can Revenge Doryuuzu by switching in, changing the Weather back to Rain, and OHKOing with Hydro Pump. Politoed is completely needed if running a Rain team, so I doubt this frog is going anywhere (except maybe back to NU, should Drizzle be banned.) I recently removed Hypnosis in favor of Hidden Power [Electric], to hit Gyarados.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Kingdra @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Hydro Pump
    [​IMG] - Draco Meteor
    [​IMG] - Dragon Pulse
    [​IMG] - Surf

    I took Manaphy off the team for Kingdra, and I still think it was the right thing to do. Manaphy was just too slow, and it always ended up lagging behind the rest of the team. Kingdra's been sweeping ever since I put it onto my team, completely turning games around. After some advice from SJCrew, I changed Life Orb back to Choice Specs, and it's been working much better than before, to the point where I don't even understand why I was running Life Orb in the past. Water/Dragon coverage is all that's needed, since anything that's being hit by STAB Rain Specs Hydro Pump isn't going to be having fun at all. Best set in the current meta-game for Rain teams.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Breloom @ Meadow Plate
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 120 HP | 252 Atk | 136 Spe
    [​IMG] - Spore
    [​IMG] - Swords Dance
    [​IMG] - Bullet Seed
    [​IMG] - Mach Punch

    My favorite Dream World Pokemon so far. Technician Breloom is my all-important Sandstorm check/counter. Breloom beats both Sandstorm set-up Pokemon, checks Doryuuzu and Terakion with Mach Punch, and resists Randorosu's QuakeEdge combination. At least two of those Pokemon are always going to be on a Sand team. Breloom always deals with Burungeru (though it obviously dislikes being Burned), Nattorei (Spore + Swords Dance + Mach Punch), and is just a good counter to a lot of teams in the current meta-game of Dream World. Spore is a given on any Breloom set, and Technician is boosting Mach Punch along with STAB. Bullet Seed got a buff this Generation, boosting its base power up to 25. With just two hits of Bullet Seed, it's just about as strong as a regular Seed Bomb. Of course, Seed Bomb can't break through Substitute, or have a chance at hitting three (at which point Bullet Seed becomes stronger) or more times. Can't wait until Breloom is finally able to set foot in Standard OU. I changed from Leftovers to Meadow Plate, since I wanted the extra boost in power, but none of the recoil.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Ludicolo @ Life Orb
    Ability: Swift Swim
    Nature: Modest (+SpA, -Atk)
    EVs: 4 HP | 252 SpA | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Hydro Pump
    [​IMG] - Giga Drain
    [​IMG] - Ice Beam
    [​IMG] - Focus Blast

    Ludicolo is practically a given if you're looking for a strong, Special-based Rain sweeper. Giga Drain also got a buff this Generation, up to 75 base power. That helps quite a bit, recovering HP lost due to random Priority and Life Orb, prolonging Ludicolo's sweep. Hydro Pump is 2x STAB, Ice Beam and Focus Blast for coverage. Focus Blast is especially useful, since it can nail Nattorei, once of Rain's biggest problems. Modest nature because Ludicolo needs all the power it can get, and its defenses aren't so terrible that it can't take a hit should it get out-sped.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Toxicroak @ Life Orb
    Ability: Dry Skin
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, -SpA)
    EVs: 252 Atk | 4 Def | 252 Spe
    [​IMG] - Swords Dance
    [​IMG] - Substitute
    [​IMG] - Sucker Punch
    [​IMG] - Drain Punch

    Holy hell, why are you you so good in OU now!? Removing Gliscor was so much better for this team. Toxicroak causes just as many problems for Sandstorm teams as Tyranitar can't switch in without risking a Drain Punch, and Hippowdon doesn't exactly enjoy +2 Drain Punch (50.2% - 59.3%), seeing as even if it Roars away Toxicroak, every other Pokemon on my team has an attack that will OHKO it. Substitute protects Toxicroak from unkind Status such as Paralysis or Burn, neither of which it likes. Substitute + Life Orb is usually a bad idea since you're losing health at an astonishing rate, but Dry Skin is healing up more than what Life Orb gives out as recoil. Drain Punch is also helping Toxicroak to live a bit longer, and with the boost to 75 Base Power, it's a pretty strong STAB attack. Sucker Punch bypasses Toxicroak's mediocre Speed stat and beats things like Lati@s to the punch (if you pardon the little pun I throw in there). Toxicroak has some problems with SubSplit Gengar, but supposing I have a Substitute up, and now you take damage from hitting a Substitute, I can out-last it if I play my cards right.

    Toxicroak is great against Stall teams because it can come in on Burungeru Boil Over, Chansey/Blissey Toxic, and Nattorei Power Whip.

    Conclusion: Other Rain teams are my personal enemy, except for maybe Rain Stall. Sun teams can give me problems, but they're rare, and Ninetales can't take many STAB Hydro Pumps from Politoed, even when switching in and changing the Weather. I recently removed a Toxic Orb Gliscor to make room for Swords Dance Toxicroak.

    Small note (open)
    This is, without a single doubt, the highest ranked team I have ever used, and probably the best team I've made in a long time. I expect Drizzle to be banned soon anyways, but thank you to everyone that helped me make this team and took time out to give me advice on how to make it even better.



    Final Glance
    _|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_[​IMG]_|_


    LeaderBoard as of 2:03 AM (open)
    [​IMG]
    LeaderBoard as of 2:03 AM (open)
  2. [Zangoose]

    [Zangoose]

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    Team looks very nice, just a few nitpicks.

    Whilst you're certainly capable of taking out opposing SS teams with ScarfToed, Loom and Gliscor, I don't think Gliscor is needed (as you said). To help counter opposing Rain teams that could outmuscle you, I suggest putting in a Dragonite sweeper. It has amazing utility under the rain, and after an Agility, it outspeeds pretty much anything.

    Dragonite @ Life Orb
    [Whatever you prefer, split it into Atk / SpA / 252 Spe]
    Naive Nature
    Multi-Scale
    -Agility
    -Outrage
    -Gale (Or Hurricane, whatever it's called)
    -Fire Blast

    Many teams are unprepared for it, and MultiScale always lets it get up an Agility (if it's at full health).
  3. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    I would think the obvious replacement for Gliscor on a rain team would be Lightningrod Zapdos. Immune to Ground and Electricity like before, only 2x weak to Ice, not weak to water, resists fighting, and can abuse Thunder.
  4. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    That's actually not too bad of an idea. Two questions though. Why Max Speed on something with Agility (you'd be out-speeding things like Scarf Shaymin-S with less Speed, I'm sure), and why Fire Blast? I'd assume that Fire Blast is to hit Nattorei, but in the Rain, I don't think it'd be doing that much damage.

    My largest problem with LightningRod Zapdos is that it has absolutely no way to damage Nattorei. Heat Wave isn't compatible with LightningRod, and Hidden Power [Ice] would be doing piss-poor damage. Not to mention that Zapdos has extremely limited coverage with LightningRod. At best, you can manage pseudo-BoltBeam with Thunder and Hidden Power [Ice], but that's really about it as far as attacking goes.
  5. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is an official Team Rateris a Tiering Contributor

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    you should still have rain dance (the move) on a rain team. It keeps your politoed alive longer which is always good. Instead of having to switch to it to always activate rain.
  6. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    The point of using Drizzle Politoed is so that I don't have to waste Pokemon's move-slots with Rain Dance.
  7. Bleu Soul

    Bleu Soul

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    You could try using Toxicroak over Gliscor. He gives you a fighting-resist, is immune to Water from other Rain teams, is fairly bulky, can recover some hp, has priority, sucks up TSpikes, is barely touched by SR, and can set-up all on his own...while taking down Nattorei. Not too speedy, but with this subsweep set I just made up, he could perform very nicely. Adjust the EV's as you please.

    Toxicroak (M) @ Black Sludge
    Trait: Dry Skin
    EV's: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Sucker Punch
    - Drain Punch
    - Substitute
    - Swords Dance
  8. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    That's actually a good point, Toxicroak is pretty damn good in the rain. You can never have too much priority thanks to Sucker Punch. I might replace Sword Dance with Poison Jab though for secondary STAB that can hit grass types extra hard.

    Dragonite is really good in the rain and can abuse both Gale and Thunder and also provides a Fighting resist. Pseudo Parafusion capabilities right there. Dragon Pulse for consistency and then Roost to keep Multi Scale active.
  9. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Took Bleu's advice and added a Toxicroak. Tested Dragonite earlier and it didn't really do much for me. Came in every once and a while, set-up Agility, but then had problems with Evolution Stone Chansey. Toxicroak has no such issue, and works well against Stall teams. Absorbs Toxic Spikes, does good damage to other Weather Pokemon, beats the Burungeru + Nattorei core, etc, etc.
  10. TransparentOpacity

    TransparentOpacity

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    I would just like to point out that Magnezone resists electric / bug / ice.

    Also, since you only have one was of setting up rain, and since you already have speed with your Swift Swimmers, wouldn't a bulky Politoed be better? You can switch in more times and keep setting up rain, which is useful if your opponent keeps bringing in a different weather inducer.

    If you do stick with the Scarf, then at least get rid of hypnosis. It's way too inaccurate, and you will have to switch out every time after using it. I think Surf might be more helpful, because sometimes you don't need the extra power from Hydro Pump and you can't afford missing.
  11. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Hypnosis lets me get a free switch-in to pretty much whatever, which is always good. If I do remove it, it'll probably be for something like Toxic.

    Scarf Politoed really is the only way to go for Offensive teams, unless you're trying SpecsToed. Politoed should only be switching in twice in a battle (once to set-up Rain, and again should my opponent have changed the Weather), and never really to sponge strong attacks.
  12. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
    is a Tiering Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey man, pretty cool team you have there. I don't have a lot of advice to offer at the moment, but I would like to contest your point about LO Kingdra being more useful than Specs. The added power from Specs makes a huge difference regarding what can actually check you to the point where it wouldn't really matter if you could switch moves.

    For instance, HP Fighting does seem like a good idea to take Nattorei on paper, but it actually does less damage than a resisted, Rain-boosted Specs Hydro Pump. On a 252 HP Nattorei, we're looking at:

    HP Fighting: 44.3% - 52.3%
    Hydro Pump: 42% - 49.7%
    Hydro Pump: 48.6% - 57.1%

    Just looking at the numbers, you actually have a pretty good chance to 2HKO with SR damage spamming Hydro Pump. On top of that, most Nattorei are running some degree of Sp. Def these days, so the outlook in an actually battle is going to seem a lot more dubious. I think it's much better to punish your opponent for switching in resists than to reward them with free LO damage (which is much easier to do when you're faster than everything and your STAB is boosted).

    Speaking of Nattorei and SR, I really think you should have both on your team just to make things easier for you in general. That extra free damage could be the difference between KOing that annoying bulky Water type or letting it hit you with Toxic, who knows. Also, it's a great plug for some of the other stuff you currently have no way to deal with, like enemy Kingdra. Once he gets a Sub up, it's over for you. I'd recommend running that over Ludicolo as your token Grass type, since he's redundant with Kingdra around and neither can take Blissey.
  13. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    The larger problem I've had with Specs Kingdra, like I said before, is the lack of freedom to change moves. Of course, that shouldn't be a problem when I can just spam Hydro Pump around, but when my opponent has their own Rain Dance team (or has something like Water Absorb Suicune), then it's a bit more problematic.

    I'll try out Nattorei over Ludicolo though, with Leftovers, since Genosekuto already lures in Shandera and beats it by U-turning to Politoed. I haven't really seen many Substitute Kingdra because, as your calcs show, Specs Kingdra is just show team-devastating. And Blissey is never a problem with Toxicroak.
  14. AccidentalGreed

    AccidentalGreed HOMERUN, CABRONES
    is a Forum Moderatoris a Contributor to Smogon
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    As I promised. This team does have a refined finish and strategy to it, and I can see why you placed 65th on the Pokemon Online ladder. I have some comments here and there.

    Upon some investigation, Ludicolo does seem redundant alongside a specially-oriented Kingdra since Kingdra destroys practically everything with double boosted Hydro Pump + Dragon STAB. If a Pokemon not hit with the deadly Hydro Pump, then it's possible death by Draco Meteor. You should consider keeping Special Kingdra because it's simply a "better Lati@s" in the rain, and since you seem to have no apparent abhorrence to Blissey, no mixed Kingdra. I personally learned that it misses out on a few KOs and is exactly the kind of Pokemon Dragon Tail Gyarados is looking for. (Speaking of which, Rain teas have a tendency to fall to entry hazards and Dragon Tail Gyarados with bulky spreads, so you have to watch out for those)

    As far as changes go, I am a bit unsure of myself. If you replace Ludicolo with Nattorei, you are losing major firepower on your team. If I'm thinking of your team correctly, Ludicolo should always be the primary attacker before Kingdra because of its slightly lower Speed and fantastic coverage. Additionally, you could lose a way to keep the pace over enemy Nattorei (Focus Blast), though I see you already have ways to counteract him (provided your switch-in isn't hit by a strand Thunder Wave). On the other hand, Nattorei pretty much solves your opposing Rain team problem by walling most attacks from Rain abusers. It also gives you some convenient entry hazards that allows the other five to score significant KOs, like a possible 2HKO on Blissey with Kingdra. Due to personal experience, Rain teams tend to have a Nattorei of their own, so it should be relatively easy to switch Breloom and Toxicroak in by baiting.

    For your Breloom, is there perhaps a better item other than Leftovers for it to hold? Leftovers does not seem to perfectly suit Breloom here since the team is offensively-oriented. Though this is not that big of an impact on your team, perhaps a Plate or a Lum Berry (for Dark Void and other status moves) shall do? Lum Berry does give Breloom the liberty of setting up in front of Darkrai, Thunder Wave Nattorei, and an unlucky burn from random Boiling Waters.

    Also, another small thing that's been tugging me: is Hypnosis actually worth it on Politoed? You already have Spore on Breloom, and it's more than likely that you are going to encounter some slower Pokemon. This may be rather arbitrary, but perhaps Hidden Power Electric can take place of Hypnosis should Genosect faint. It's also a reliable way of getting rid of especially bulky Gyarados, which may phase your team with Dragon Tail and sponge hits. And yeah, Toxic's good, for not a good thing to be locked into.
  15. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    He did say he was having trouble with other Rain teams and Nattorei is one of the very best Rain team counters. Entry hazards, Thunder Wave, Leech Seed and Power Whip are all very bad for opposing rain teams, not to mention the sheer bulk, resisting water/electric, half the fire weakness (which rain teams don't even use), and neutral to ice. The only thing it has to watch out for is fighting moves.
  16. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Well, I've been testing Nattorei all day. It was good, but not as helpful as I would have liked. I saw that I was really relying on Ludicolo to soften up my opponent's team before going in for a sweep with Kingdra. Losing that fantastic coverage that Ludicolo brought really hurt my team in the long run, even though Entry Hazards like Stealth Rock work so well for this team.

    I'm going to stick with Ludicolo for a bit longer, to see if I can get even higher up on the ladder with it. If I notice that Ludicolo is becoming obsolete, I'll swap it out for Nattorei.

    Oh, and I'm thinking of changing Meadow Plate to Fist Plate on Breloom. Not OHKOing Doryuuzu with Mach Punch when it's at 100% is insane, even though such a high powered Bullet Seed is great.
  17. MazeL

    MazeL

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    Hey this is a nice team you have Forte. I have just a few suggestions. Although Genosekuto may be good to get the momentum of the battle right off the bat and eliminate their weather inducer, Specs Rotom-W does a better job. Here is the set that I would recommend;

    [​IMG]
    Rotom-W @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Levitate
    Nature: Timid
    EV's: 252 Spe / 252 SpA / 4 HP
    - Hydro Pump
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Trick

    With this set, Rotom is able to counter all of the weather leads in today's metagame, as well as beat out Nattorei, Heatran and most other leads. As for Genosekotu being a revenge killer for you shouldn't matter because if rain is up you have Kingdra and Ludicolo sitting at +2.

    Here are some damage calcs to 252/252 Careful weather inducers in the appropriate weather

    Hydro Pump vs Tyranitar ~ 44.6% - 52.5%
    Hydro Pump vs Hippowdon ~ 78.1% - 91.9%
    Thunderbolt vs Politoed ~ 82.8% - 97.4%
    Hydro Pump vs Ninetales ~ 38.9% - 45.7%

    Rotom has the ability to Trick his Specs onto another pokemon, helping you counter other weather teams, as well as Stall. Hidden Power Fire rounds out the coverage, and 2HKOs Nattorei in the Rain. Best of Luck with this team!
  18. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Once bumped.
  19. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

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    Changed Kingdra's item to Specs, fixed the title to reflect my new ranking, made small changes in other places.
  20. Woodchuck

    Woodchuck you spin mine head right round right round
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon IRC AOPis a Forum Moderator
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    If I'm not mistaken, you haven't changed Kingdra's item to Choice Specs. It's still indicated as Life Orb by both the picture and the words.
    You don't seem to have that much of a problem with Kingdra as most tend to fire off Hydro Pump randomly which is an easy Sub/SD for Croagunk.
    I don't see why your own Kingdra has both Hydro Pump and Surf. Perhaps replace one with a coverage move?
    As for entry hazards, I've found Skarmory to work remarkably well in Rain. It counters Dory, Randorosu, and Terakion, Hippowdon can't touch it, and, in the rain, Fire Blast from Tyranitar won't be doing much.
    Perhaps it is worth a try over Breloom? The main problem being Skarmory doesn't have much of a place on such an offensive team.
  21. SJCrew

    SJCrew Believer, going on a journey...
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    Coverage moves just don't work well with Kingdra. His other options are horrible and they're not doing more damage than his STABs in any situation ever, even when resisted. Water/Dragon's coverage is so phenomenal that only two Pokemon in the game even resist it, those being Empoleon (not so common) and Nattorei (on seemingly every team, but will inevitably be 3HKOed by Pump sans Leftovers).

    Hydro Pump is for when you want the raw power to KO really bulky targets at full health that you know Surf won't do it for (Jirachi, Brozong, etc). Surf is for weaker Steels and revenge killing. Same deal with Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor. This was Kingdra's standard Specs set even back in 4th gen.
  22. elDino

    elDino Deal With It.
    is a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus

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    Hey Forte, nice team you've got here and congratulations on the ranking you achieved! I especially like how you used Ludicolo, I just did the analysis on him and by testing him extensively I found out how awesome he is :P
    Its really hard to find a problem with this team as you have most of your bases covered and as long as you keep your Politoed alive, people are gonna have one hell of a time trying to beat this team. One problem that you do have is against Rock Polish users, primarily Terakion and Randorosu. They can Rock Polish up against your Genosekuto and then proceed to sweep through most of your team. You only have Breloom to take down Terakion and no real counter at all for Randorosu. As listed before, I think that a Skarmory would do well in stopping these threats but it wouldn't fit anywhere really... One pokémon that could fit in your team is Manaphy. The bulky CM set would work well as it would provide some much needed bulk on the team whilst also countering the above pokemon. Something like this would work well:

    Manaphy @ Leftovers
    Ability: Hydration
    Nature: Bold
    252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
    ~Calm Mind
    ~Rest
    ~Surf
    ~Ice Beam

    This thing gives you away to take down stall as well whilst also acting as a backup Doryuuzu check (it can survive a +2 Earthquake). It easily counters Randorosu and Terakion and it keeps the rain theme of the team. I feel that it could fit over Breloom as it still counters Doryuuzu anyways.
    Once again good job on the leaderboard achievement and kudos for using Ludicolo over some other rain sweeper.
    Good luck!
  23. MajorGambit

    MajorGambit

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    Messages:
    104
    I have something to point out: what does this moveset on Kingdra accomplishes? I can understand DM along with Dragon Pulse. But 4 moveslots with 2 types of attack?

    Why don't you run mixxed Kingdra with Outrage / Waterfall | Draco Meteor | Dragon Pulse | Surf / Hydro Pump?

    At least try to attack on the other side of the spectrum. I think you're wasting Kingdra's big potention with this set.

    Finally, you're kind of rude with the suggestion of another Rain Dance mon. Politoed WILL go down many times. I use a SS team and my first concern is to get Drizzletoad down for my weather to reign. Having another Rain Dance may save your match. Since Kingdra is kinda of wasting a moveslot, you could give him Rain Dance. Or even to Ludicolo, since Focus Blast rarely pays off the shaky accurancy.

    Anyway, think about that. Your team is very well-built. GL with it.
  24. Forte.EXE

    Forte.EXE

    Joined:
    May 22, 2010
    Messages:
    584
    What you mentioned is really my only problem with Skarmory on this team. The fact that he just doesn't fit that well on Offensive teams is a big problem for me. Coverage moves on Kingdra aren't necessary, because all that's needed is Water/Dragon coverage to smack everything around. Throwing around Surf in the Rain with Choice Specs (fixed that, by the way, thanks for bringing that up) is like tossing out a Draco Meteor without the negative side-effects.

    Thanks for compliments. I'll try out bulky Calm Mind Manaphy over Breloom, so I hope it can rise to the occasion. Tail Glow Manaphy was just a bit too frail (even with those 100/100/100 defenses) sometimes. I haven't really been having too many problems with Rock Polish Pokemon, but I can see how they would be a problem.

    Mixed Kingdra is, in my opinion, the worst Kingdra set for this team. I don't have any problems with Stall that I'd need something like a Mixed Attacker. As I said above, two types are all Kingdra needs. It's resisted by a giant number of three Pokemon, neither of which are even common in this meta-game.

    Rain Dance isn't needed at all though, and I thought it was fairly obvious why it wasn't needed. I'm not going to be sending in Politoed every little chance I get. I've faced you personally numerous times on the ladder, against your Sun team, and I've yet to lose because I played my Politoed at the wrong time. Worst come to absolute worst, in a one-on-one match, Kingdra can take a +0 Earthquake and OHKO with Surf, if at around 90% of its HP.

    Focus Blast has paid off a lot more than you think. Being able to 2HKO Nattorei, one of the few problem Pokemon for this team? I much prefer that over a move that I might use maybe once out of every ten battles.
  25. Jaroda

    Jaroda

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2010
    Messages:
    1,505
    lol, what two pokemon are you thinking of that resist Water/Dragon? Empoleon is uncommon sure, but Nattorei is #2 in usage.

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