1. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  2. New to the forums? Check out our Mentorship Program!
    Our mentors will answer your questions and help you become a part of the community!

Aggron (Placeholder)

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by PK Gaming, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG] / [​IMG]

    Aggron

    Aggron in a nutshell: Headsmash

    [Overview]
    • One of two Pokemon with Rock Head and STAB Head Smash; a powerful combination behind its base 110 Attack stat.
    • While it's vulnerable to Close Combat and Earthquake, it can temporarily remove one of those weaknesses thanks to Balloon.
    • It's Sturdy to an extent (no pun intended). While 60 SpD and 70 HP bases are low, its Special Defense can be boosted with sandstorm and it still has a whopping 180 Defense stat.
    • Sturdy gaining a buff by acting like a Focus Sash allows it to be more of an effective lead.
    • Holds a lot of crippling weaknesses, such as the 2 nasty x4 weaknesses, very slow, and requires sandstorm to keep it bulky on the special end of the spectrum.

    [SET]
    name: Choice Band
    move 1: Head Smash
    move 2: Ice Punch
    move 3: Fire Punch / Earthquake
    move 4: Heavy Bomber
    item: Choice Band
    ability: Rock Head
    nature: Jolly / Adamant
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Set Comments:

    • Aggron is capable of abusing Head Smash due to his Rock Head ability which prevents recoil damage.
    • Choice Band Head Smash is ridiculously powerful, and is capable of wrecking most switch ins.
    • Coverage moves take care key Pokemon that get in Aggron's way. Ice Punch deals with Gliscor, Fire Punch deals with Nattorei and Heavy Bomber deals with Fighting types.
    • He has an easier time switching in due to how common physical Dragon types are. It can switch into practically any Outrage due to its impressive physical defense and start firing off attacks.
    • Fighting types are especially annoying to deal since they're everywhere. Fortunately, nearly all of them are light enough to take heavy damage from Heavy Bomber.

    Additional Comments:
    • Aggron can use Earthquake over Fire Punch to hit bulky steel types (Metagross, Jirachi, Registeel) significantly harder than Fire Punch.
    • Aqua Tail is an option if you want to deal with Rhyperior, but its rarity makes Aqua Tail situational at best.
    • Aggron can use Iron Tail over Heavy Bomber for more reliability, but at the cost of accuracy.

    Teammates and Counters:
    • Sandstorm is highly recommended. It boosts Aggron's subpar Special Defense to a decent level. For example it allows him to survive Surf from defensive Suicune and other bulky Water types.
    • Hippowdon is a good partner. It sets up Sandstorm and its excellent physical bulk allows it take physical Ground- and Fighting type moves for Aggron.
    • Celebi is a fantastic partner for Aggron. It resists all of Aggron's weaknesses and it can beat most of its Fighting- and Ground type counters.
    • Bulky Ground-types are good counters to Aggron. Hippowdon and Swampert who can easily take a Head Smash and are barely damaged by his coverage Attacks.
    • Bulky Fighting-types are capable of countering Aggron. Hariyama is an ideal counter, as he resists Head Smash and Heavy Bomber is ineffective due to Hariyama's large weight.

    [SET]
    name: Metal Burst
    move 1: Metal Burst
    move 2: Stealth Rock
    move 3: Stone Edge
    move 4: Earthquake / Superpower
    item: Leftovers / Balloon
    ability: Sturdy
    nature: Brave
    ivs: 0 speed IV
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def


    Set comments:
    • Aggron is capable of abusing its newly buffed ability Sturdy, along with Metal Burst as a lead.
    • Access to Stealth Rock and an innate Focus Sash in Sturdy makes Aggron one of the most reliable leads in gen 5.
    • Leftovers will negate Stealth Rock damage, and it will allow Aggron to keep his Sturdy effect intact. Balloon provides Aggron with an artificial
      immunity, giving him more opportunities to setup Stealth Rock.
    • Sturdy will guarantees survival at max HP, allowing Aggron to effectively abuse to Metal Burst.
    • Head Smash ruins this sets strategy so Stone Edge will have to do.
    • Earthquake is used for coverage, and is useful for taking opposing lead Aggron, Metagross and Heatran.

    Additional Comments:
    • Superpower can be used over Earthquake to attain similar coverage, but with the added ability of hitting levitating steel types.
    • Endeavor is an option over Metal Burst, but Aggron's lack of priority makes it an inferior option.
    • Aggron can use Taunt to force his foe into attacking him.

    Teammates and Counters:
    • Outside of leading, Aggron appreciates the removal of entry hazards to fully abuse his ability.
    • Starmie is capable of Rapid Spinning, and can deal with Ground- and Fighting types.
    • If Aggron doesn't have max HP, Fighting- and Ground types have no problem switching in and firing off their 4X STAB moves.
    name: Rock Polish Sweeper
    move 1: Rock Polish
    move 2: Head Smash
    move 3: Ice Punch
    move 4: Fire Punch / Earthquake / Heavy Bomber
    item: Life Orb / Balloon
    nature: Jolly
    evs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe

    Set Comments:
    • Aggron can use Rock Polish to increase his mediocre speed and potentially setup a sweep.
    • Head Smash is still ridiculously Powerful and it will OHKO a good portion of the metagame.
    • Ice Punch is Aggron's first coverage move, and is highly important for dealing common Ground-type threats like Gliscor and Garchomp. Keep in mind that Ice Punch is to weak to noticeably damage mono Ground types like Hippowdon.
    • Fire Punch is used for dealing with Nattorei and other Steel types. Just like Ice Punch, Fire Punch is pretty weak against mono Steel types.

    Additional Comments:
    • Earthquake can be used over Fire Punch to deal significantly more damage against Steel types.
    • Heavy Bomber is a decent alternative to Fire Punch, hitting most Fighting-types for high damage.
    • Balloon gives Aggron an additional immunity, giving him significantly more opportunities to setup. It also allows Aggron to get by some of his conventional checks (Gliscor, some Hippowdon varients) and use them as setup fodder.
    • Aqua Tail is an option for hitting Rhyperior and Rhyperior, who otherwise wall this set. Unfortunately, Hippowdon isn't 2HKOed by Aqua Tail and Rhyperior is rare, making Aqua Tail an inferior option.

    Teammates and Counters:
    • Partners from the previous set are still useful teammates to Aggron.
      Celebi has excellent synergy with Aggron, and can take on many of his counters.
    • Hippowdon is also an effective partner because of its Sandstorm support and abiltity to check most of Aggrons counters. Gengar is a useful offensive partner, capable of switching into both of Aggron's 4X weaknesses and causing massive damage to his counters.
    • Aggron has hard countered by Hippowdon, who isn't threatened by any of Aggrons moves. It can sponge Head Smash and Fire Punch, and it isn't even threatened by Super Effective Ice Punch / Aqua Tail.
    • Bulky fighting types are capable of switching into Aggron and threatening him with their STAB Attacks.

    [SET]
    name: Subsitute
    move 1: Substitute
    move 2: Head Smash
    move 3: Earthquake
    move 4: Magnet Rise / Ice Punch
    nature: Adamant
    item: Leftovers / Balloon
    evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def

    Set Comments:

    Aggron's ability to easily force switches makes him an ideal Substitute user.
    Even without an Attack boosting, Head Smash is still ridiculously powerful and will dent anything that doesn't resist.
    Earthquake is useful for coverage and is necessary for getting past bulky Steel types. Unlike the previous sets, Nattorei doesn't poss much of a threat due to its inability to break Aggron's substitutes in one shot.
    Magnet Rise is great for getting past some of Aggron's checks by removing his Ground weakness.

    Additional Comments:
    Ice Punch may be used if you want to heavily damage Gliscor. Headsmash is a 2HKO on Gliscor, but unfortunately it is susceptible to PP stall via protect from Gliscor.
    164 Speed EV's can be used to outspeed min speed Skarmory. Keep in mind that only Specially defensive varients of Skarmory are 2HKOed by Headsmash.

    Teammates and Counters:
    Entry hazard support is recommended. Aggron can easily force switches and appreciates the residual damage.
  2. Rudoku

    Rudoku

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2004
    Messages:
    404
    Did something happen to Relicanth?
  3. Hikari

    Hikari
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    I think you should take out Heavy Bomber on the Body Purge set, BP halves your weight making HB much weaker, that plus the poor coverage steel have compared to water (aqua tail)
  4. Farewell

    Farewell

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    770
    Rock Polish could be used as a slash in the 1st move option, so that they match up as alternatives to the 3rd move option; you should also list each benefit. Using Rock Polish is better for Heavy Bomber to keep the weight heavy, while Body Purge is good with Aqua Tail so you can have more coverage while still reducing enemy Grass Knot, and Low Kick damage
  5. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    Edit: Never mind I was mistaken.
  6. Hikari

    Hikari
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    You edited your post...
  7. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    Dude, take out Rock Polish and Heavy Bomber on the sweeper set. :0 Heavy Bomber's damage is unreliable, and the coverage of even a reliable Steel-type move is infinitely inferior to something like Aqua Tail or Ice Punch (Ice punch should also get a mention on there somewhere, as it hits Sazandora and Ononokusu harder than anything else, not to mention Gliscor and Landlos). Even the reduced damage you take from Low Kick and Grass Knot is a preferable alternative to using Heavy Bomber.

    Also, what about this set? It was epick last gen:

    Subgron @ Leftovers / Balloon
    Adamant Nature
    160 HP / 252 Atk / 12 SpD / 84 Spe
    - Substitute
    - Head Smash
    - Focus Punch / Earthquake
    - Ice Punch / Magnet Rise

    Theorymon logic suggests it could be effective.
  8. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    Actually Heavy Bomber hits the only targets that aren't crushed by Rock Types (Ground and Fighting) Aqua Tail handles most of the ground types while Heavy Bomber deals with the fighting types. Without Heavy Bomber you're fodder against Fighting types. The bulky Fighting-types shrug off Aqua Tail / Head Smash. Contrary to popular belief, bulky fighters like Roopushin and Nageki are light and are in fact hit by 120 BP Heavy Bomber, which 2HKOes them both.

    Headsmash also does a lot more to Sazandora and Ononokusu than Ice Punch. (225 BP vs 140 BP) True, Headsmash is unreliable at times but even Heavy Bomber is enough to deal with those pokemon.
    Heavy bomber > Super Effective Ice Punch (180 BP vs 140). Both Sazandora and Ononokusu are light enough to be hit by 120 BP Heavy Bomber.

    Ice Punch is only useful against Landlos and Gliscor, but the former is OHKOed by Head Smash already making Gliscor the only notable target. (Head Smash already does a considerable amount of damage)


    Whoa I totally forgot about that set. Yeah I'll add it.
  9. Stellar

    Stellar true and everlasting
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a SPL Winner
    Orange Islands

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2008
    Messages:
    3,426
    I tried out a Claw Sharpen / Substitute / Head Smash / Earthquake set a while back which was pretty cool. Claw Sharpen boosting Head Smash's accuracy is certainly useful. You might try out something similar to see if it is worthy of inclusion.
  10. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    Yeah that looks like a neat set actually. Item of choice? Leftovers / Balloon right? Also what do the EV's do Banryuu?
  11. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    ....fine then. I'd be pretty worried about making the already-heavy Aggron even more so, though. :0 Grass Knot (and obviously Low Kick) will be no friends of his. But then, he'll be faster than usual, so perhaps it will be a worthwhile tradeoff. :\ *shrug* =w=

    I once played my Aggron against a team containing Gliscor, and Gliscor managed to successfully stop my entire team cold thanks to Aggron not having Ice Punch (I normally ran it on him). :0 If nothing else, give it a mention in AC and say that Gliscor will beat Aggron that don't carry Ice Punch ('cause it does. Dx I've experienced it firsthand).

    LOL heck if I know. I just borrowed them off of the SubGron set from the 4th Gen analysis. I think I ran my Subgron with like, 252 HP / Attack. :0 I imagine it allows him to outspeed certain things and keep a sub against others.
  12. Hikari

    Hikari
    is a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    222
    Grass Knot and Low Kick hits Aggron with max power with or without heavy steel (i think is called like that) so that dont matter.


    Gliscor at full health can be a problem to ice punch less Aggron, but with prior damage he wont enjoy taking a head smash (71.8% - 84.7%), so Ice Punch is just too situational
  13. Lowen

    Lowen

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2009
    Messages:
    141
    A question to the Choice band set: In which cases is it better to run adamant over jolly? Maybe you could list some examples.
  14. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
    is a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
    The Smog Leader

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2009
    Messages:
    1,158
    How's this coming along?
  15. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
    is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Winner

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2009
    Messages:
    5,147
    I just finished exams so I should be starting work on it pronto. (I will however work on Zoroark first)
  16. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    I'd need to test this, but since I'm not as good as some of you guys, I'm fully prepared for hole-punching.

    Lead @ Shuca Berry, Sturdy, Adamant (4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpD)
    -Stealth Rock / Hone Claws
    -Heavy Bomber / Metal Burst
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake

    Aggron makes for a decent lead due to his natural physical bulk, access to Sturdy which guarantees a turn to do what you need him to do, and he can even come back later and scare the bejesus out of monsters. Even without Heavy Metal, Aggron is still big enough to score decent damage with Heavy Bomber in most cases. If you don't like the accuracy, abuse Sturdy and use Metal Burst, which is a universal counter-attack for 150% the damage, but it's his best option against Flygon, who walls his other attacks that provide the famous EdgeQuake coverage against everything else. Adamant is preferred over Jolly due to the fact that it's not outspeeding many leads even with maximum Speed investment, but you can shift SpD to Speed if you want him to be more of a wallbreaker (sweepers usually want all the speed they can get). 200 EVs is enough to outpace most Machamp, whose common opening gambit of a STAB No Guard Dynamicpunch will ruin him.

    EVs were chosen to balance physical and special bulk as much as possible to increase the chances of him being able to come in later and do more damage. As with all hazard setters, spinblock support is appreciated by an offensive team's sweepers, and in return they can salute Aggron for his typing and physical bulk combining to shrug off attacks most others can't dream of tanking. Sandstorm is an option to boost Aggron's relatively pathetic SpD even further, but it faces stiff competition for the role from the Sand Streamers of OU in Tyranitar and Hippowdon, both of which also offer physical bulk and punishing attacks. Shuca Berry was chosen to reduce the effectiveness of Earthquake leads from the likes of Metagross. Sturdy guarantees survival, but in this scenario you'll want to strike with an EQ of your own instead of retaliating with Metal Burst. Alternately, Hone Claws can be used if you don't mind waiting until later in the match to set up the hazards of your choice, boosting the power and accuracy of both STABs.
  17. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    Explain to me why you would use Head Smash without Rock Head.
  18. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    More power and about the same accuracy as Stone Edge (high crit rate isn't as sexy IRL as on paper), and Rock Slide simply doesn't have enough BP to matter (flinch chance = lawl, as most of its users aren't fast). Sturdy was, in my mind, too important for a lead role to not run. If you want, you can run Rock Head and have it hold a Sash as an alternative, but this thing was theorymonned to get rocks up and maybe come back later to do some damage. Plus, if used with Wish support (maybe even Lunar Dance if you run Cresselia, who makes a great defensive partner between Levitate, bulk and Fighting resistance while Aggron takes Dark and Ghost), it can come back at full health and still have the Sash property in cases where an actual Sash would have been expended.
  19. A Man In Black

    A Man In Black

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    281
    This seems to pose a significant problem when you face non-grounded opponents who can threaten an OHKO.
  20. TEA_DEMON

    TEA_DEMON

    Joined:
    May 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,467
    Should be Heavy Bomber right?
    Iron Head probably deserves a mention here too, since it's more reliable than Iron Tail.
  21. Diamond Smoke

    Diamond Smoke

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2010
    Messages:
    44
    What I think when aggron has a balloon

    [​IMG]
  22. Unbreakable

    Unbreakable

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    347
    All right, I talked it over with my good friend and gimmick master, and he pointed out to me why Head Smash and Sturdy was a bad idea, whereas you guys just gave me flak for it. With this data, Stone Edge goes in the third slot and Hone Claws (as confirmed by PokemonDB, instead of Claw Sharpen) gets slashed into the first as an alternate to Stealth Rock if you don't mind waiting until clearing out a potential spinner to set hazards.
  23. dubious

    dubious

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    34
    Just a small nitpick.
  24. Banryu

    Banryu

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    Messages:
    1,742
    Yes, okay, fine... sounds good. Ah, but I see one verrrry small hole in your logic. :\

    So... Sturdy acts as a Focus Sash, correct? Yes, we know that. Now, you're proposing to use a recoil move-- on what is essentially a Focus Sash set. On a Pokemon with zero recovery outside the obvious Rest, I might add.
    Do you see the problem with that? :/
  25. Mr.Senior

    Mr.Senior

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    93
    definitely make a subpunch set for aggron. i use smogons subpunch set with the evs in sp.def in speed which puts it above any minimum speed 61s. the set can only truly shine with paralysis support. able to set up a sub on something and get full paralysis, kill with headsmash, and do whats appropriate for their revenger, whether it be another head smash, focus punch, or magnet rise. im currently using this strategy on the 4th gen ou tier. the most satisfying thing is the first switchin being scarfgon, magnet rising and getting one pissed off opponent. played well with paralysis support aggron can often be your teams mvp. such support can come from either blissey (which i have run ice beam for grounds trying to switch into t wave) or celebi. blissey can take any special attack aimed at aggron but makes u susceptible to physical fighters, however if blissey can bait say, infernape or lucario, and t-wave on the switch-in, they can be easily beaten by the rest of the team from there or by aggron himself. celebi on the other hand handles aggrons 4x ground and fighting weaknesses and his water weakness as well. cel can also leech seed to recover aggrons hp loss from substitute and force more switches. the other way around aggron can take about every weakness celebi has bar fire.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)