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Pokémon Alakazam

Discussion in 'OverUsed' started by Gary2346, Oct 14, 2013.

  1. Velits

    Velits

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    Sorry for the late reaction on this post but I would like to say that the comparison isn't valid. I think you should compare a modest nature in both cases instead of timid vs. modest. Because a Modest Life Orb Alakazam does outdamage MegaZam. I am pretty sure that the point has already been brought up by someone here but I just felt like saying. I do understand your comparisation since Alakazam doesn't naturally outspeed anything and really benefits from the timid nature, while MegaZam has 150 speed which outspeeds enough.

    252+ SpA Life Orb Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 380-448 (53.2 - 62.7%)

    252+ SpA MegaAlakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 357-420 (50 - 58.8%)
  2. Gary2346

    Gary2346 A filthy casual
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    I don't see how my comparison isn't valid. Why in the world would you ever use Modest Life Orb Alakazam over Timid? I never said that Modest Mega Alakazam out damages Modest Life Orb Alakazam, I said that it out damages standard Life Orb Alakazam, which always runs a Timid nature. My point in that comparison was that with a Modest nature on Mega Alakazam, you are still hitting just as hard as LO Alakazam while still retaining the incredibly high Speed stat. So I don't get what you're trying to say, because you're never going to be running Modest Life Orb Alakazam.
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  3. Garchompi

    Garchompi Banned deucer.

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    High speed doesn't matter much in a metagame where powerful priority attacks are everywhere, especially considering Mega Alakazam can't take a hit and can't hold a Focus Sash.
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  4. Velits

    Velits

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    Must have misread your post then. I got the point of the comparison anyway. Was just proving that it outdamages with Modest nature, nothing more. Wasn't trying to be rude...
  5. Yourdream

    Yourdream

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    Mega Alakazam is absolute shit. In every single game, no joke, every single game I've played against a M-Zam, I've had two scenarios. Either I'm in with a sweeper and he comes in. I think 'okay I guess I'll just stay in and get him down to his sash so something else can come in and revenge him', but then Zam mega evolves and it dies in one hit to my sweeper. The other scenario is I leave my pokemon in to die, the opponent mega evolves, traces a useless ability, kos me, and I bring in something scarfed or with priority to revenge kill it.
    Life orb regular Alakazam does less damage (since you'll want it to be timid), BUT it does more than enough damage to ko the things you need it to. Heck, the focus sash variant does enough damage to get the kos you need. I don't see ANY reason not to use a focus sash on Zam, but at the least, just run the life orb. Mega evolving gives up magic guard, which is useful (Megazam without psyshock can get toxic stalled by Blissey/Florges/Sylveon, regular Zam cannot), it tells your opponent flat out that you do not have a sash and Zam can be ohko'd, and it gives up your mega pokemon for ultimately a lesser pokemon.
  6. Kairyu_Gen1

    Kairyu_Gen1

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    Finally got around to testing this one, and it seems pretty overrated to me. There's hardly a team without a priority user, and focus miss is hardly ideal coverage for the steel and dark types out there. Unless there's a magic moveset I've missed, then this 1st gen giant won't see his return to glory anytime soon :(
  7. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Overrated?

    I don't think anyone seriously thinks Mega Alakazam is a great Pokemon. It's completely outclassed by Magic Guard Focus Sash Alakazam. (Who is weaker, but is always 2hkoed by anything, which makes it infinitely more reliable) Modest Mega Alakazam is like a faster, slightly stronger LO Timid Magic Guard Alakazam but with Trace as an ability. It's a losing tradeoff, since Trace is almost completely inferior to Magic Guard. It's situational utility flat out doesn't compare to Magic Guard, which consistently provides you protection from most status and an immunity against entry hazards. Modest Mega Alakazam might have been a thing in Gen V, but the sheer influx of priority moves and Talonflame makes it hard to use.

    It's damn shame that a cool looking Pokemon like Mega Alakazam turned out to be so crappy :/
  8. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    Does Trace work the turn you Megavolve?
  9. The Great Gastly

    The Great Gastly

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    Yep. Tested ingame!

    I once had Alakazam facing down a Charizard, and they both Mega Evolved. Kazam traced Solar Power (evolved first due to higher speed), MegaZard Y then summoned Drought, and I OHKO'd it with Psychic boosted by the traced ability! Trace is a cool ability, but it's situational AND requires finesse to use properly.
  10. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    Crappy? No. Megazam may have some flaws, but it certainly isn't crappy, and it isn't outclassed by regular 'Zam, either, even if it faces stiff competition. Modest Mega Alakazam out damages AND outspeeds Timid LIFE ORB Alakazam, let alone Focus Sash Alakazam. This speed buff allows it to outspeed up to positive nature base 130s while running Modest, something regular Alakazam can't accomplish. Plus, though losing Magic Guard sucks, it can't use Life Orb OR Focus Sash, so it's almost better it loses it instead of keeping it, because Trace gives it a LOT more niches. Here's a long list, which you may skip/skim:

    It can switch into Heatran's Fire Moves, Jolteon's and Thundurus-T's Electric moves, Vaporeon's, Gastrodon's, and Jellicent's Water moves, outspeeds Kingdra in Rain, Venusaur in Sun, and Excadrill in Sand, copies Genesect's download, Greninja's Protean, Crawdaunt's and Mega Lucario's Adaptability, MegAbsol's and Espeon's Magic Bounce, Magnezone's Magnet Pull, Dragonite's Multiscale, Gyara's and Mence's Intimidates, Mamoswine's Thick Fast, (dat Ice resist,) various Natural Cures, Scolipede's Speed Boost, Noivern and Crobat's Infiltrators, Mega Aggron's Filter, Reuniclus', Clefable's and other Alakazam's Magic Guards, many-a Serene Grace, and has many, many other uses with Trace as well.

    So as you can see, Trace has a lot of niches. And I was just sticking to OU viable Pokemon there, god only knows what would happen if someone decided to use Furfrou or Shedinja in OU. And sorry if this post comes off as really ranty, but this wasn't really aimed at you PK, just me kind of telling everyone that Mega 'Zam is certainly good, even if he has his issues. So no offense meant.

    Also, he has a better mustache than regular Alakazam, and that alone should be enough to warrant his use.
  11. Jaroda

    Jaroda

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    252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Thick Fat Megazam: 76-91 (30.27 - 36.25%) -- 55.3% chance to 3HKO

    Ok I'll admit, that's surprising. I was expecting more like 75% but not even guaranteed in 3 hits?
  12. November Blue

    November Blue NO YOUTUBE, I DO NOT WANT TO WATCH VIDEOS AT MAX VOLUME!!
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    Yeah, Mega Alakazam is shaping up to be really good. It has a lot of undiscovered potential, IMO, you just have to use it correctly.

    As for coverage, I like Psychic/Psyshock, Shadow Ball, and Dazzling Gleam. This combination gets neutral coverage on everything, I think, and provides a much more reliable option than Focus Blast for Dark-types.

    Then, you can run a fourth move. Calm Mind? Substitute? Encore? Zam's movepool is huge, and it has both the speed and power needed to destroy almost anything. Priority doesn't invalidate it at all.
  13. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Like I said, the extra Speed is inconsequential. Regular Alakazam does just fine with its base 120 Speed, and Focus Sash ensures it has an advantage against the Pokemon that outspeed it(Including the omni potent Talonflame). The amount of Pokemon in the 120+ base Speed tier is just limited to Jolteon (who isn't really relevant), Greninja and Noivern. I'll admit that these are advantages, but they're not worth giving up immunity to entry hazards or the permanent Focus Sash. Focus Sash is more important than ever; unlike Alakazam, Mega Alakazam is super vulnerable to the tons priority moves that are flying around, and it straight up loses to Pokemon that it fails to OHKO. (Which is more than you'd expect)
    No offense, but your long list wasn't very convincing. You basically glossed over 2 key points in order to make a point. Here's the deal:
    1) Alakazam has to take the time Mega Evolve before it can utilize Trace, so it can't "just switch into" these Pokemon. It has to do so at a later time,
    2) Alakazam has no business switching into a good portion of these Pokemon (and did you really think some of these through? Switching into Mamoswine? Scolipede? Mega Lucario? Give me a break. Alakazam is a glass canon, it doesn't just "switch into" Pokemon, that's just reckless. At best, it can switch into these Pokemon at a later time and copy their abilities, which is kind of cool.
    None taken. I always go out of my to use unconventional Pokemon, but I think you're wrong on this one. Mega Akalazam's not worth using over Magic Guard Focus Sash Alakazam. It's the simple truth, as much as I hate to admit it. I really do like Mega Alakazam conceptually, I just wish it had better execution. Of course I could be wrong, and some good player can show me that's not the case, but until then, i'm willing to write Mega Alakazam off as a gimmick.
    I won't deny that.
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
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  14. TheTraininator

    TheTraininator

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    It is true that those 3, (plus Tornadus-T, Meloetta-P, Weavile, and Crobat,) are the only relevant Pokemon who NATURALLY lie between the 120 and 130 speed tiers, but a lot of things lie there after boost, like Neutral Natured Scarf base 80s, (Mamoswine, Togekiss, Dragonite, and Chandelure included,) and Positive Natured Scarfed Scizor and Gothitelle, as well as a few other less relevant Pokemon,) so it makes more of a difference than you'd expect.

    EDIT: Forgot Adamant DD Gyara and Dragonite, but imo DD Gyara should always be Jolly.

    Yeah, but this is the same situation people were arguing in the Mega Gengar thread, and it's still a very easily dealt with issue because Alakazam can easily revenge kill/force switches to get up a free Mega Evolution, then switch out for later. Not a nonissue, but not that big a deal either.

    The only ones I was listing Alakazam could "switch into" were the immunity-ability Pokemon, the rest of them I was just simply saying it could copy the abilities of and take advantage of them. Mainly what Mega Alakazam does is switch into these things AFTER they get a kill and use their own abilities to revenge kill them with/set up a sweep; i.e. bringing in Megazam after a Greninja kill and stealing Protean, or after a Genesect kill and getting the Download boost. Therefore, Mega Alakazam has an added advantage of revenge killing all the Pokemon on that list over regular Alakazam.

    I will agree with you that Mega Alakazam certainly faces competition with its regular form, as the lack of Magic Guard Focus Sash is certainly an issue for it, and it is arguable whether or not it is worth taking up a mega slot when there are so many other amazing Mega options to use; all I'm saying is that it is not outclassed by its regular form, as it has many advantages over it to contrast with the various disadvantages. Whether you prefer the original or the Mega is up to personal preference, but outclassed? No way.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  15. amzaneok

    amzaneok

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    I believe the only reason Mega Alakazam is struggling for a spot on teams is because of the limit of one Mega Evolution per team. It's a fantastic Pokémon, and it would have been top-tier OU last generation, but because of competition for that slot in a team, it really falls behind. Being an extraordinary revenge killer is its niche, and it really doesn't appreciate the loss of Focus Sash. I'm going to try and test Focus Sash Alakazam as a last resort of sorts on a trolly Swag Play team. It's a fantastic choice for teams that rely on risky strategies as it offers reliable security with Focus Sash, as it often makes up for mistakes or bad luck. Otherwise, Mega Alakazam has a hard time competing for my Mega Evolution position on my team due to being barely any better than non-Mega special attackers holding a Life Orb (who have much better typing than pure Psychic-type).
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  16. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Maybe i'm being a little too hard on it. The fact that Modest Mega Alakazam is stronger than LO Alakazam and basically doesn't take LO recoil is kind of cool.
  17. alexwolf

    alexwolf Rain Summoner
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    Regular Zam doesn't take LO damage too PK, cause of Magic Guard, while also being immune to passive damage and not spending the Mega Slot. Mega Zam's only niche is combating weather sweepers (Kabutops, Kingdra, Excadrill, etc). Providing a situational check to Heatran, Thund-T, etc is kinda usefull too i guess.
  18. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Yeah I know. I was just thinking that the Mega Stone was effectively a Life Orb that boosted Speed, and provided it with a new ability.
  19. PK Gaming

    PK Gaming Pursuing My True Self
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    Yeah I take back all of the bad things I said about Mega Alakazam, it's is actually pretty baller.
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  20. xSilentDeviL

    xSilentDeviL

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    Agreed. I saw no reason to use the mega form over the regular, but those stat increases (Spatk and speed) are actually pretty cool and Modest Mega Alakazam can destroy teams without proper walls/switch-ins. If only they left Magic Guard on Mega Alakazam :pirate:
  21. Turbopasta

    Turbopasta

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    On the gimmickier side of things, how would Assault Vest Alakazam fare? He's already got pretty great sp def, and he has enough power to at least 2HKO most things that attack him
  22. AOPSUser

    AOPSUser

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    no

    (do I need to explain because I actually feel like I might need to lol)
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  23. Hidious

    Hidious

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    Focus sash is better in every conceivable way. There, I think that is enough explanation
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  24. Sergeant Spooky

    Sergeant Spooky

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    Assault Vest: you will get 3HKOed by most special attacks, and OHKOed by just about every physical attack
    Focus Sash: you will get 2HKOed by most special attacks, and 2HKOed by all physical attacks

    Hmmmm
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  25. HackerKing

    HackerKing

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    So for the revenge killer (Alakazam w/ Focus Sash) is it worth it to drop Hidden Power for Dazzling Gleam?

    Dazzling Gleam gets more power and also hits Dragons hard. Plus it doesn't mess with your IVs, leading to an inevitable drop in Power and/or Speed.

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