All Abilities Unique Interactions Review + Further Ability Updates

[Deck Knight]

Now that we're starting to get up and rolling, there's a few smaller items I want to take care of specific to a few Pokemon.

Here are a few Abilities that have Unique interactions:

Spinda: Own Tempo / Tangled Feet

Own Tempo

This Pokemon moves at its own pace and when confused, it will never harm itself in confusion. If the Pokemon also has Tangled Feet, it will raise Accuracy by one (1) Stage.

Tangled Feet

When confused, this Pokemon moves around in a haphazard manner, increasing their evasion by one (1) stage. These Pokemon will never damage themselves in confusion. If the Pokemon also has Own Tempo, the duration of confusion doubles.

So basically Spinda is drunken master, but people hate Evade Boosts and it now has Contrary Superpower courtesy of Gen V Dream World. Should this be modified?

Delibird: Insomnia / Vital Spirit

Insomnia: This Pokemon is immune to sleep induced by other Pokemon. It's normal state of sleeplessness makes it take 1 less damage and energy/action from Ghost Curse. If it is put to sleep by a Pokemon with Mold Breaker it will wake up the next action. If a Pokemon with Insomnia also has Vital Spirit, its accuracy is raised by one (1) stage permanently.

Vital Spirit: This Pokemon has a high vitality and alertness making it immune to sleep induced by other Pokemon. Its normal state of sleeplessness makes it take 1 less damage and energy/action from Ghost Curse. If it is put to sleep by a Pokemon with Mold Breaker it will wake up the next action. If a Pokemon with Vital Spirit also has Insomnia, its evasion is raised by one (1) stage permanently.

Ghost Curse is barely used, but the Delibird specific effect is again +1 Eva and +1 Acc, which is awesome considering Delibird also has Hustle. This basically cancels out that effect, but again people hate Evade boosts. Should this be modified?


Klinklang: Plus / Minus

Plus: This Pokemon possesses a negative electrical charge. When a partner Pokemon with Plus or Minus is on the field or if this Pokemon has Plus, this Pokemon’s special attacks have their Base Attack Power increased by two (2). If this Pokemon has both Plus and Minus, the boosts stack to a maximum Base Attack Power increase of four (4).

Minus: This Pokemon possesses a negative electrical charge. When a partner Pokemon with Plus or Minus is on the field or if this Pokemon has Plus, this Pokemon’s special attacks have their Base Attack Power increased by two (2). If this Pokemon has both Plus and Minus, the boosts stack to a maximum Base Attack Power increase of four (4).

Klingklang's Movepool does not inspire. This basically means its an excellent special attacker.

Dragalgae: Poison Point + Poison Touch

Poison Point: By default, this Pokemon's spikes/quills/thorns are coated in poison, and there is a 30% chance of poisoning any foe that uses a contact attack on this Pokemon. When toggled, this Pokemon's natural toxins are more potent. As a result, all of this Pokemon's attacks that inflict regular poison will inflict Toxic poison instead (with the same chance of effect).

Poison Touch: By default, this Pokemon's body is covered with a film of poison. Whenever it hits an opponent with a contact attack, that opponent has a 30% chance of being Poisoned. When toggled, this Pokemon's natural toxins are more potent. As a result, all of this Pokemon's attacks that inflict regular poison will inflict Toxic poison instead (with the same chance of effect).

It seems to me that these abilities sort of balance each other in that you can combine their effects by toggling one off, such that in Dragalgae makes contact it would have a 30% Toxic Chance, or opponents that make contact with it would be subject to a 30% Toxic Chance. If both are off though, that it would double the Poison effect and change it to Toxic. Thoughts?

Other Interactions:
There are a few other small ones, that are mostly represented by the fact ASB tend not to make Pokemon immune to status, just not suffer its negative effects (e.g. you can Poison Zangoose or it can Poison itself, but it does not take any Poison Damage unless Immunity is removed. Lucario's Inner Focus allows flinch to happen but ignores the effect so Steadfast can activate, etc.)

Stunfisk: Limber + Elec Type

Limber: This Pokemon’s body is well trained and immune to paralysis.

One other addition is I want Limber to add an effect that Pokemon that are already immune to paralysis are also immune to Speed drops (self or other inflicted.) Stunfisk is already slow, but this essentially turns Curse into Bulk Up, and lets it actually outspeed some of the things it paralyzes.

Leavanny / Wormadam-G: Overcoat + Grass Type

Overcoat: This Pokemon has a sturdy exterior that rebuffs the elements, making it immune to damage inflicted by bad weather. If the Pokemon is already immune to at least one (1) kind of weather by typing or a different ability, Overcoat reduces the Base Attack Power of all oncoming attacks by one (1). The Pokemon is also immune to "Powder" moves. (Full List: Poison Powder, Powder, Rage Powder, Sleep Powder, Spore, Stun Spore.)

Overcoat now adds a "Powder" Immunity that Grass types already have. Overcoat already acts like Sturdy if the Pokemon's other type makes it immune to a weather, should it also do this for Pokemon already immune to Powders?

Heal Pulse and Mega Launcher:

Mega Launcher: This Pokemon has impressive launching power built into its physiology, and all of its Aura and Pulse attacks have their BAP increased by three (3). Full List: Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Water Pulse.

Mega Launcher also buffs heal pulse, but this isn't listed in its description. What is the best way to handle this?

Suggestions welcome. If I've missed any unique interactions, let me know.

 

[Box]

WRT Evasion Boosts
Flavorwise, these boosts make sense. Drunken Master Spinda is a cool concept, as is Sleepless Maniac Delibird. Neither of these mons are very powerful in and of themselves, so I think they appreciate the +1/1 boost as a nice natural buff and to, y'know, make them cool.

IK people dislike Evasion boosts, but if that's the case why not just remove Sand-Attack, Double Team, etc from ASB? They are the same in principle.

Klingklang
Let's give it Math Attack 15 BAP no drawbacks Steel STAB hurr

Dragalgae
Cool interaction. In fact, we could implement a specific interaction for having both moves Toggled OFF, such as having poison proc chance double (x2), alongside the Toxic thing.

Limber/Overcoat
Negating Speed Drops is a good idea. Come on, they are Limber.
Yes to Overcoat buff as well. It has a principle similar to that of the weather immunity thing.

Mega Launcher
IMO, buff Heal Pulse by 5 HP heal. The scale feels appropriate when compared to the BAP buffs of the other moves.

 

[Gerard]

Dragalgae's combo is amazing in ASB, is you are against an opponent that uses physical moves primary then turn off Poison Point, if you're against an Special Attacker or a pokemon with STAB Earthquake then turn Poison Point off, so I doubt anyone will turn both off completely, though I think Box's suggestion would be the best

I agree with Limber (Makes sense and it would give them a niche in doubles by making them immune to Icy Wind & Bulldoze's speed reduction) & Overcoat (Leavanny & Wormadan-G should benefit from the BP reduction as well)

One Ability that still bothers me is Illuminate, it's just so meh, while people were right that the extra hax that it provided in it's previous form was undesired they went out of their way to overnerf it, all the toggle abilities have some nice boost when toggled or the effect is already good enough that you never have to but Illuminate's Acc boost to the opponent as well to the user is just not good, something like making it a Victory Star clone would be a small change yet it would make it a lot better to use instead of making it an ability that helps your opponent as much as you.

Big Pecks could also use a boost since most of it's users don't even have a way to increase their own defenses (featherdance being their most common option), in order to avoid another sturdy clone maybe we could give them a permanent +1 Def/+1 SpD, it would help their users be able to withstand a bit more damage

Another point I want to discuss is the consistency to 50% boosts, right now we have 3 abilities that provide a 50% boost giving +3 BP (Hustle, Mega Launcher & Strong Jaw), which is in line up with the Crit, STAB & weather boost, all of which are +50% BP in-game, while every other one gives a +2 boost (Blaze, Torrent, Overgrow, Swarm, Guts, Toxic Boost, Flare Boost, Plus, Minus), so we should fix this unless there's an important reason behind this inconsistency

 

[ZhengTann]

Note: I've never seen any of these mons in action firsthand before, so I have no idea how annoying or viable they can be.

Drunken Master Spinda: +1 Eva only happens when Spinda is confused, as far as I interpret it. So, an opponent can simply not confuse it. +1 Acc all the time in an All Abilities battle isn't that much of an issue, IMHO.

Sleepless Hacker Delibird: If people hate a passive +1 Eva that much, I suppose Vital Spirit can stack another +1 Acc instead. That way, Delibird can actually get +2 Acc instead, effectively allowing for full-time Hustle.

Klingklang: I thought Plus/Minus interaction only happens in All Abilities match, right? So this shouldn't be much of a problem, I think - at least it's not "One Ability Battle Hall with recoilles Life Orb".

Epic Poison Dragalge, Stunfisk, Wormadam: Seconding Box's opinion.

Mega Launching Heal Pulse: I'd say putting it in with the rest of the list. +3 BAP on Heal Pulse is simple without breaking it, IMHO. Heal Pulse itself fulfils a decent niche (clerical support) on its own that does not warrant scaling in comparison to attacking moves.

EDIT: Seconding Gerard's last point about the +3 BAP Ability boosts for the sake of consistency, especially when the list that offers +2 BAP come at a price (statuses or 33% HP? Not a good tradeoff)

 

[Deck Knight]

The difference is targeted effected lists vs unlimited effected lists.

Guts is a 1.5x boost on all attacks, so it buffs high BP moves.
Mega Launcher maxes at boosting 8 BAP moves, as does Strong Jaw (and that's only Crunch, the rest are 7 BAP).

 

[Geodude6]

Spinda
Looks fine to me. As ZT said, the +1 Eva only happens when Spinda is confused.

Delibird
I know people hate evasion boosts, but I am lost as to how to fix this. I think it might be fine, Delibird isn't exactly Cyclohm, it doesn't need a nerf.

Klinklang

Let's give it Math Attack 15 BAP no drawbacks Steel STAB hurr

In all seriousness, see my Delibird comments. Klinklang has a fairly strong special movepool, but it has no way to deal with opposing Fighting/Fire/Ground types. Fine imo.

Dragalgae
Cool concept!

Stunfisk
Maybe we could make it so that any speed drops turn into speed boosts, and self-targeted speed drops (looking at you, Curse) are just ignored.

Leavanny/Wormadam

Overcoat already acts like Sturdy if the Pokemon's other type makes it immune to a weather, should it also do this for Pokemon already immune to Powders?

I say yeah, it's no different than Escavlier being immune to sandstorm.

Mega Launcher+Heal Pulse
imo let's make it so Heal Pulse from a Mega Launcher mon heals 25 HP instead of 20.

 

[akela]

Spinda: Even with the evasion boost, it is destroyed by Machop family, Golett family, and Honedge family, as well as --% accuracy moves like Aura Sphere. Most pokemon do get access to at least one --% accuracy moves, with Spinda being immune only to one of them. I see no issue with the evasion boost. If Spinda had higher ranks, I could see the issue with it. If people are really concerned about the Evasion Boost, why not make it a flat boost instead of a stage boost?

Delibird: See Spinda.

Klinklang: May I request clarification on Klinklang's interaction with Magnetic Flux?

Stunfisk: Seems appropriate.

Dragalgae: Poison Point/Touch combination seems mightily appropriate.

Overcoat: Might as well extended Overcoat's pseudo sturdy include powder moves. Only Leavanny line and Wormadam-Grass are affected, and WG already has the other half of sturdy in Anticipation.

Mega Launcher: Honestly, I would treat the interaction with Heal Pulse the same as the other moves. It boosts the amount healed by three (3).

Because of Trace on Gardevoir (and, importantly, by extension, Mega Gardevoir), I think we need to include something somewhere about what happens when a pokemon with Pixilate traces Normalize, Aerilate, and/or Refrigerate, toggling the abilities such that Normalize turns all attacks normal and toggling Pixilate to turn all Normal attacks Fairy (Is the final product all Normal moves? All Fairy moves? or what?). A hierarchy, so to speak, of which effect occurs first.

Of course, there are other ways besides Trace to get 2 attack type changing moves on a single pokemon (Like Skill Swap).

 

[Stratos]

no as someone who had to fight delibird in his gym once, that +1 eva is absolutely nervewracking and destroys your ability to order, it needs to go imho :|

 

[Its_A_Random]

Just a short thing about Delibird, in the several times I have used it in All Abilities, my Delibird has -never- fainted in a single ASB match as of yet. Not even once has it fallen. Not even in that Gym Match Pwnemon is referring to, where I was the Delibird user.

That has got to be saying something.

I might comment on everything else later, but I just needed to get that out of my system.

 

[Texas Cloverleaf]

Delibird / Spinda: Kill the evasion boost, Delibird is a complete bitch to fight because of it.

Klinklang: Support

Stunfisk: Support

Dragalgae: Support

Overcoat: Logical, yes.

Mega Launcher: I prefer 20>25 for niceties sake, it doesn't affect balance negatively.


akela has been bringing up some crazy ability interactions on irc in the cases that some abilities (often mega abilities) get Skill Swapped and such around. Once such combo was any combination of Normalize / Refrigerate / Pixilate / Aerilate. I suggested a few days back that when any two or more of these abilities are combined each Attack will receive a BAP increase of 2/3/4 (I was thinking 4 because Normalize) but all attacks become typeless and are not affected by weaknesses and resistances.

Thoughts?

 

[Canis Majoris]

Delibird and Spinda: Evasion Clause in competitive exists for a reason. Remove the evasion boost.

Klinklang: This is fine. Klinklang should have gotten Electric type in the real game imo >_>

Stunfisk: Supporting this entirely. Stunfisk could use a little boost that won't make it overwhelming.

Dragalge: No change needed. This is probably my favourite interaction as it lets you get a mon hit by Toxic without having to use Toxic.

Overcoat+Grass: Supporting. Doesn't seem game-breaking as most moves people use on the two are either Flying or Fire type, sadly.

Mega Launcher: Supporting Texas' proposal of 20 -> 25.

I'm also supporting Texas' Normal -> type attack idea.

 

[Deck Knight]

Conclusion:

Evasion is the actual effect of Tangled Feet, and goes away when confusion stops. Doubling the duration on confusion makes it actually viable rather than particularly broken.

On Delibird, Evasion will be removed in favor of +1 Atk/Def/SpD Rank boosts attributed to the abilities. As Delibird still has poor defenses anyway (this makes it 90/3/3/3/3/75), and it will still be under Rank 18, so no item interactions are effected.

No changes to Klingklang.

Limber Stunfisk will be immune to all speed-drops, including self-inflicted.

Poison Point/Touch will have text added to their interactions to make it clear what to do.

Overcoat + Grass type will also have the "Sturdy" effect.

Mega Launcher will add 5 HP to Heal Pulse's healing.

On Aerilate/Pixilate/Refrigerate, Normal moves will become multi-typed (like Flying Press) and the BAP boost will not stack.

C+Pable:

Delibird: Insomnia / Vital Spirit

Insomnia: This Pokemon is immune to sleep induced by other Pokemon. It's normal state of sleeplessness makes it take 1 less damage and energy/action from Ghost Curse. If it is put to sleep by a Pokemon with Mold Breaker it will wake up the next action. If a Pokemon with Insomnia also has Vital Spirit, its Attack is increased by one (1) Rank and its accuracy is raised by one (1) stage permanently.

Vital Spirit: This Pokemon has a high vitality and alertness making it immune to sleep induced by other Pokemon. Its normal state of sleeplessness makes it take 1 less damage and energy/action from Ghost Curse. If it is put to sleep by a Pokemon with Mold Breaker it will wake up the next action. If a Pokemon with Vital Spirit also has Insomnia, its Defense and Special Defense each is increased by one (1) Rank permanently.

Stunfisk: Limber + Elec Type

Limber: This Pokemon’s body is well trained and immune to paralysis. If the Pokemon with this Ability is Electric-type, this Pokemon's Speed cannot be lowered by any method, including self-inflicted reductions.
Leavanny / Wormadam-G: Overcoat + Grass Type

Overcoat: This Pokemon has a sturdy exterior that rebuffs the elements, making it immune to damage inflicted by bad weather. The Pokemon is also immune to "Powder" moves. (Full List: Cotton Spore, Poison Powder, Powder, Rage Powder, Sleep Powder, Spore, Stun Spore.) If the Pokemon is already immune to at least one (1) kind of weather, or powder attacks by typing or a different ability, Overcoat reduces the Base Attack Power of all oncoming attacks by one (1).

Dragalgae: Poison Point + Poison Touch

Poison Point: By default, this Pokemon's spikes/quills/thorns are coated in poison, and there is a 30% chance of poisoning any foe that uses a contact attack on this Pokemon. When toggled, this Pokemon's natural toxins are more potent. As a result, all of this Pokemon's attacks that inflict regular poison will inflict Toxic poison instead (with the same chance of effect). If Poison Point is deactivated and Poison Touch is activated, the Pokemon's contact attacks will inflict Toxic Poison.

Poison Touch: By default, this Pokemon's body is covered with a film of poison. Whenever it hits an opponent with a contact attack, that opponent has a 30% chance of being Poisoned. When toggled, this Pokemon's natural toxins are more potent. As a result, all of this Pokemon's attacks that inflict regular poison will inflict Toxic poison instead (with the same chance of effect). If Poison Touch is deactivated and Poison Point is activated, contact attacks will trigger a 30% Toxic chance.

Heal Pulse and Mega Launcher:

Mega Launcher: This Pokemon has impressive launching power built into its physiology, and all of its Aura and Pulse attacks have their BAP increased by three (3). Full List: Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Water Pulse. The Pokemon's Heal Pulse will also heal five (5) more HP.

-il/erate Abilities:

Aerilate:
By default, this Pokemon's Normal-type moves are Flying-type moves, and have an additional two (2) BAP boost. When toggled, this Pokemon's Normal-type attacks have their BAP increased by two (2). If a Pokemon has been skill-swapped multiple abilities that change Normal-type attacks, the attacks become dual-typed, but the BAP boosts of the abilities do not stack.

Pixilate:
By default, this Pokemon's Normal-type moves are Fairy-type moves, and have an additional two (2) BAP boost. When toggled, this Pokemon's Normal-type attacks have their BAP increased by two (2). If a Pokemon has been skill-swapped multiple abilities that change Normal-type attacks, the attacks become dual-typed, but the BAP boosts of the abilities do not stack.

Refrigerate:
By default, this Pokemon's Normal-type moves are Ice-type moves, and have an additional two (2) BAP boost. When toggled, this Pokemon's Normal-type attacks have their BAP increased by two (2). If a Pokemon has been skill-swapped multiple abilities that change Normal-type attacks, the attacks become dual-typed, but the BAP boosts of the abilities do not stack.

 

[Its_A_Random]

I thought this was already implemented...

Anyhow, the fall of brokenbird is complete. Implementing.