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All Lies

Discussion in 'Past Gen Teams' started by TheOSC, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. TheOSC

    TheOSC

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    .: All Lies Mission Statement :.

    All Lies was created for my Sophomore RMT. With fast sweeping and the use of a few less than common Pokemon, it is focused on being quick and to the point (having only one necessary setup), hitting as hard as possible within a short amount of time. (Opposed to my original Semi Stall team Sandstream!)

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    .: All Lies V1.0 :.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Team Building
    [​IMG]
    I knew when I first started this team off that I wanted to run a BD Linoone for shits and giggles, also because it can be a surprise to any one who is only playing around in the OU meta-game (On top of that if he can set up, Extreme Speed will tear through roughly 3/6 pokemon on any given OU team). This pokemon makes up the backbone of the team and is the only pokemon that I wanted to truly NEED setup time.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    After Deciding on Linoone I knew that setup time would be precious and with out it he would never get a chance to sweep. I set up my lead for this occasion and after playing around with a few disable strategies decided on a Hypnosis suicide Gengar. His typing complemented Linoone's almost perfectly and made it easy for safe switching. After noticing a few problems with his setup I added a Focus Sash and DB for a, just in case situation where he would be unable to KO his competition with T-Bolt or Shadow Ball and his Hypnosis missed.

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    Knowing how Unreliable my Gengar's hypnosis was, and seeing my weakness to Psychic made me decide to make myself 100% resistant to it, this lead to picking Umbreon for my next slot. Filling my midgame with another chance for Linoone to switch safely and setup his BD. However, after playtesting this pokemon I am feeling that his ability to Setup is very so so, and that he would not be missed if I drop him from the roster. Other than setting up Linoone mid to late game, Umbreon has not proven to synergize well at all.

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    Needing to Get to the Core of what this team was about, I decided my final slots would be filled with nothing but powerful pokes that would require NO setup time and be able to sweep for the victory. Hariyama was a obvious choice for this slot with good coverage, and a strong ability in guts (making status ailments a non issue) Hariyama pushes the opponent to the edge. Boasting strong 1HKO's and good bulk, he lends himself to tanking as well as sweeping when the occasion rises. He is also a solid switch if my Gengar failed to setup Hypnosis.

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    Not wanting to mess with My synergy to much, and still needing a fast reliable sweeper I found my self browsing the always reliable Dragon family for answers. Mixmence was my man. He balanced the team's overly physical fighting style by bringing reliable Special sweeping and keeps Blissy at bey, with his ability to 2HKO with Brick Break. At the moment I am looking at him and considering removing BB however and replacing it with a 3rd special attack, then moving his EV's around to make him even more terrifying as a Special Sweeper.

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    Mamoswine was my final choice knowing that I needed to cover my new Mence's Ice Weakness. With solid STAB in avalanche and Earthquake, plus a priority move through Ice Shard, paired with good natural bulk. Mamoswine is able to 1-2 shot most pokemon in the current meta-game Very well. He cover's my weakness to Ice and all of his major Weakness' are covered by Mence.

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    The Team
    [​IMG]
    Gengar: The Suicide Sleeper
    EV's: 6 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    @ Focus Sash
    1. Destiny Bond
    2. Hypnosis
    3. Shadow Ball
    4. Thunder Bolt

    Purpose: Gengar will do 1 of two things for me. Either Successfully Hypnosis, or if he fails he will hang on with Focus Sash and Destiny Bond their lead to the grave with him. His Hypnosis is crucial to my Linoone sweep later on and he is currently playing the role of Lead beautifully

    Known Weakness: Aerodactyle Taunt leads, they will Taunt him so his Hypnosis fails then force me to either hit them with a bad coverage move, or make me switch out. either way they get up their SR and now my focus sash is useless later on.

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    [​IMG]
    Linoone: The Thrasher
    EV's: 6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Gluttony
    @ Salac Berry
    1. Belly Drum
    2. Extreme Speed
    3. Iron Tail
    4. Shadow Claw

    Purpose: This is my main Sweeper. Even my lead is dedicated to giving him his necessary setup turn. assuming Hypnosis hits from gengar this poke will get 1 safe switch in turn, and most of the time 1 safe BD turn, from there it is all cake. Extreme Speed what will die from it and Shadow Claw/ Iron Tail what it can't.

    Known Weakness: If Linoone doesn't get his setup turn he will go down, hard. this means that if Gengar fails to hypnosis I can't safely switch to him and will need to hold off until I can cripple a pokemon by other means later on. Usually in the form of a Umbreon Yawn...

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    [​IMG]
    Hariyama: The Power
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Speed
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Guts
    @ Flame Orb
    1. Cross Chop
    2. Earthquake
    3. Facade
    4. Stone Edge

    Purpose: A reliable switch if Gengar had to Destiny Bond after a failed Hypnosis. Hariyama is Bulky and Beefy, with Guts + Facade he is a force to be reckoned with. packing Stone Edge allows him to tear apart any birds that try to stop him and Cross Chop is a great (albeit less than reliable) STAB for those situations where Facade just won't cut it.

    Known Weakness: if he is up against a ghost he generally will have to pull back due to bad coverage in his move pool. other than that he has been preforming admirably.

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    [​IMG]
    Umbreon*: The Coverage
    EV's: 206 HP/152 Def/152 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Synchronize
    @ Leftovers
    1. Dark Pulse
    2. Heal Bell
    3. Moonlight
    4. Yawn

    Purpose: Umbreon covers my glaring Psychic weakness, he switches in to almost every pokemon brilliantly and is capable of healing off any status' crippling my team. Moonlight + Heal Bell + Yawn makes this an Ideal Pokemon for setting up my Linoone late game if Gengar fails early game.

    Known Weakness: As well as he sets up Linoone, that is about all he does well. he is not blending with this team very well at all and I have considered removing him numerous times. Suggestions for what to switch him for (or a new move set/EV's) would be much appreciated.

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    [​IMG]
    Salamence: The Wall Breaker
    EV's: 82 HP/176 Spd/252 SpA
    Nature: Rash
    Ability: Intimidate
    @ Life Orb
    1. Brick Break
    2. Draco Meteor
    3. Fire Blast
    4. Roost

    Purpose: Mixed Sweepers are always great, and Psudo Legendary MixMence is no exception. Outrunning the majority of his compitition and breaking Blissy walls with 2 hits is great, Fire Blast and Draco Meteor the rest down for the victory. Finally, Roost makes him a bit more durable than any of my opponents ever hope for.

    Known Weakness: I good Ice shard will cripple this dragon hard, although they are usualy easy to see coming and switching to Mamoswine is not hard. Besides, I have to reset his SpA after I Draco Meteor any way.

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    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine: The Bulldozer
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Oblivious
    @ Life Orb
    1. Avalanche
    2. Earthquake
    3. Ice Shard
    4. Stone Edge

    Purpose: Another "Safe Switch" from my Suicidal Gengar. When This pokemon is sent out, if he can hit it It will die. EQ + Avalanche make for great coverage in the OU Meta-game, and Ice Shard makes sure that he will get the 2HKO if for some reason they make it past the first hit.

    Known Weakness: His Speed is so below average that he tends to fall victim to fire moves. Better switching could probably remedy this problem (I have a Mixmence for this very reason) but for some reason I keep thinking his Ground attribute will save him from STAB Hetran Fire Blast XD

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    Currently I'm trying to find the weak points and then revamp the team as necessary, I'm defiantly not going to object to Pokemon switches if you think a different Pokemon will benefit the team more. Please reply, rate, and help me out with building the Team.
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    *At risk of being dropped.

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    .: All Lies V1.3 :.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Team Building Revisit
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    After loosing so many times due to failed Yawn attempts and bad walling on Umbreon's part, I decided to switch over to a more popular eveelution. Vaporeon. He has synergized with the team well and through use of his Sub+BP I can now setup a thousand times easier with my Linoone.
    (Thanks to Ginganinja)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    After dropping my Umbreon, I once again had a HUGE weakness to Psychic assaults, both Gengar and Haryiama were setup fodder with no safe switches. I decide that I would need to drop one pokemon to cover this weakness. Salamance was unfortunately the unlucky victim. However I swapped in a shiny new Mixed Rachi. This actually worked in my favor and balanced out my Weakness chart a thousand times better than Salamance ever did, with much better coverage.
    (Thanks to Ginganinja)

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    The Team
    [​IMG]
    Gengar: The Suicide Sleeper
    EV's: 6 HP/252 SpA/252 Spd
    Nature: Timid
    Ability: Levitate
    @ Focus Sash
    1. Destiny Bond
    2. Hypnosis
    3. Shadow Ball
    4. Thunder Bolt

    Purpose: Gengar will do 1 of two things for me. Either Successfully Hypnosis, or if he fails he will hang on with Focus Sash and Destiny Bond their lead to the grave with him. His Hypnosis is crucial to my Linoone sweep later on and he is currently playing the role of Lead beautifully

    Known Weakness: Aerodactyle Taunt leads, they will Taunt him so his Hypnosis fails then force me to either hit them with a bad coverage move, or make me switch out. either way they get up their SR and now my focus sash is useless later on.

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    [​IMG]
    Linoone: The Thrasher
    EV's: 6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Gluttony
    @ Salac Berry
    1. Belly Drum
    2. Extreme Speed
    3. Seed Bomb
    4. Shadow Claw

    Purpose: This is my main Sweeper. Even my lead is dedicated to giving him his necessary setup turn. assuming Hypnosis hits from gengar Vaporeon will get 1 safe switch in turn, and most of the time 1 safe turn to Substitute, from there it is all cake. Baton Pass to Linoone, BD while the sub is up and then Extreme Speed.

    Known Weakness: If Linoone doesn't get his setup just right, he will go down fast. this means that if Gengar fails to hypnosis or Vaporeon just can't seem to get his Sub up, I can't safely switch to Linoone, and will need to hold off until I can cripple a pokemon by other means later on then use Linoon as a Revenge Killer instead.

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    [​IMG]
    Hariyama: The Power
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Speed
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Guts
    @ Flame Orb
    1. Cross Chop
    2. Earthquake
    3. Facade
    4. Stone Edge

    Purpose: A reliable switch if Gengar had to Destiny Bond after a failed Hypnosis. Hariyama is Bulky and Beefy, with Guts + Facade he is a force to be reckoned with. packing Stone Edge allows him to tear apart any birds that try to stop him and Cross Chop is a great (albeit less than reliable) STAB for those situations where Facade just won't cut it.

    Known Weakness: if he is up against a ghost he generally will have to pull back due to bad coverage in his move pool. other than that he has been preforming admirably.

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    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon: The Setup
    EV's: 130 HP/252 Def/128 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Water Absorb
    @ Leftovers
    1. Baton Pass
    2. Substitute
    3. Surf
    4. Wish

    Purpose: Replacing a weak link on this team Vaporeon is here to Setup my Linoone, provide wish support, and wall water moves. He does a superb job of all three of these at the moment and seems to have made for better over all synergy.

    Known Weakness: Stall tactics and his lack of Status Curing/RS if I am placed against a Stall team with Roar or Whirlwind, or Both. It becomes Very hard for this team to one shot their pokemon and very easy for all of my pokemon to die from status ailment/ Entry hazard. Vaporeon Does not help in any of these situations.

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    [​IMG]
    Jirrachi: The Providence Breaker
    EV's: 82 HP/176 Spd/252 SpA
    Nature: Hasty
    Ability: Serene Grace
    @ Expert Belt
    1. Fire Punch
    2. Ice Punch
    3. Iron Head
    4. Thunderbolt

    Purpose: Wall Breaking and Sweeps. Rachi will stop almost any wall from setting up with his Flinch Hax (although I try not to rely on them) and can sweep wonderfully due to his great coverage moves. Running the Standard Physical Mix set allows me to sweep the majority of my competition with ease.

    Known Weakness: I have noticed that this set would benefit Greatly from Grass Knot. However, dropping Thunderbolt is not an option as I need a check for Gyarados. I have considered dropping Ice Punch for Grass Knot but am afraid that I will lose out on something more not being able to counter Dragon/Ground any more. Also Hetran walls this pokemon way to well.

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    [​IMG]
    Mamoswine*: The Bulldozer
    EV's: 252 HP/252 Atk/6 Def
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Oblivious
    @ Life Orb
    1. Avalanche
    2. Earthquake
    3. Ice Shard
    4. Stone Edge

    Purpose: Another "Safe Switch" from my Suicidal Gengar. When This pokemon is sent out, if he can hit it It will die. EQ + Avalanche make for great coverage in the OU Meta-game, and Ice Shard makes sure that he will get the 2HKO if for some reason they make it past the first hit.

    Known Weakness: I thought he was stronger than I guess he really is proving to be, While he is surviving hit 1, his slow speed usually means that he may pick up 1 KO before being Knocked Out himself. This is a BIG problem for a team that is supposed to Sweep Fast and Hard. I have thought of dropping him now for a Weevil or any other quick Ice Pokemon with some power.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Currently I'm trying to find the weak points and then revamp the team as necessary, I'm defiantly not going to object to Pokemon switches if you think a different Pokemon will benefit the team more. Please reply, rate, and help me out with building the Team.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *At risk of being dropped.

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    .: All Lies V2.4 :.
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Show Hide
    Team Building Revisit
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Ok, I am back with another major update (you guys are probably getting tired of seeing this team but I am a bit of a perfectionist... sry XD) after playing around with everyone's ideas I decided that my Celebi was just not cutting it for the team and the first change was over to a Rotom-H. I have been feeling that this slot would be better filled by a Dual Screen Bronzong/Uxie but for now the Choice set with Trick + his ghost typing is proving very useful as well.
    (Thanks to Setsuna)

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    The Next change was my Lead, The team was benefiting well from hypnosis support, but the unreliability of it combine with the fact that sleep (while nice) was not necessary made my Suicide Sleeper Gengar dead weight and allowed me to switch him out for a standard LeadApe. This has proven much more effective with good coverage stabs, Fake Out for sash breaking, great speed and SR support LeadApe is fitting in very well.
    (Thanks to Jc104)

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    The Final edit to the team is a Shiny new Magnezone, running a Choice set he easily OHKO's (occasionally 2HKO) any Steel type in the game and beats out U-turn Scizor so there is truly no escape. This allows for much cleaner sweeping late game on Linoone.
    (Thanks to CBshuckle)

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    The Team
    [​IMG]
    Infernape: The Initiator
    EV's: Atk 66/Spd 192/SpA 252
    Nature: Naive
    Ability: Blaze
    @ Focus Sash
    1. Close Combat
    2. Fake Out
    3. Fire Blast
    4. Stealth Rock

    Purpose: A more effeciant way to lead the team, Fake Out will do 1 of two things for me, either Hit the opponent breaking any sash's that are equiped, or force a switch into a ghost and allow me to setup SR (and check my speed against them) and if I am faster hit with a Fire Blast/CC. This lead is proving to be much more reliable than my old Suicide Gengar for a few reasons, 1 is breaking sash Azelf, 2 is he is an all around great Antilead.

    Known Weakness: Nothing has stopped this lead in my last 16 matches (W/L ratio was 7:1 with this team's current build) including Taunt Aerodactyle. He is a bit of a suicide lead, but not to the same extent as my old Gengar and has scored more than a few KO's for me at this point.

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    [​IMG]
    Linoone: The Thrasher
    EV's: 6 Hp/252 Atk/252 Spd
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Gluttony
    @ Salac Berry
    1. Belly Drum
    2. Extreme Speed
    3. Seed Bomb
    4. Shadow Claw

    Purpose: This is my main Sweeper. With recent changes to the team he is seeing more mid-late game action and preforming the role of Sweeper fantastic. after setup he counters roughly 80% of Metagame sweeping threats through use of Extreem Speed and anything that that doesn't hit hard enough (bar Steels) he will cover with either Seed Bomb or Shadow Claw.

    Known Weakness: If Linoone doesn't get his setup just right, he will go down fast. this means that if Vaporeon just can't get his Sub up, I can't safely switch to Linoone very often, and will need to hold off until I can cripple a pokemon by other means later on then use Linoon as a Revenge Killer instead.

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    [​IMG]
    Rotom-H*: The Tweeker
    EV's: 6 HP/252 Spd/252 SpA
    Nature: Modest
    Ability: Levitate
    @ Choice Scarf
    1. Hidden Power (Ground)
    2. Overheat
    3. Thunderbolt
    4. Trick

    Purpose: Walling RS and just giving me good coverage for a few threats in the game, then crippling walls by forcing them to take his Choice Scarf. This pokemon is by far my weekest link at the moment and will probably be dropped for a DS Bronzong or Uxie

    Known Weakness: Synergy with my team is just not quite their, he walls and sweeps very well but just not how I would like him to at the moment. There may be a better build for him that I wouldn't mind trying out but odds are he will be switched for a Dual Screener.
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    [​IMG]
    Vaporeon: The Setup
    EV's: 130 HP/252 Def/128 SpD
    Nature: Bold
    Ability: Water Absorb
    @ Leftovers
    1. Baton Pass
    2. Substitute
    3. Surf
    4. Wish

    Purpose: Replacing a weak link on this team Vaporeon is here to Setup my Linoone, provide wish support, and wall water moves. He does a superb job of all three of these at the moment and seems to have made for better over all synergy.

    Known Weakness: Stall tactics and his lack of Status Curing/RS if I am placed against a Stall team with Roar or Whirlwind, or Both. It becomes Very hard for this team to one shot their pokemon and very easy for all of my pokemon to die from status ailment/ Entry hazard. Vaporeon Does not help in any of these situations.

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    [​IMG]
    Magnezone: The Steel Hunter
    EV's: 6 Atk/252 Spd/252 SpA
    Nature: Naive
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    @ Choice Scarf
    1. Explosion
    2. Flash Cannon
    3. Hidden Power (Fire)
    4. Thunderbolt

    Purpose: Killing every steel that their team has at it's disposal and making it easy for my Linoone to Sweep their field. This switch has benefited me in more ways than one and guarantees any steel will die fast (bar Hetran) with either HP fire or in the case of Empoleon Thunderbolt. He synergizes with the team perfectly and can function as Revenge Killer, Sweeper, and Hunter.

    Known Weakness: Bad timing, If I mispredict and my opponent uses an EQ on him than I will go down, other than that though not much will stop this speed demon.

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    [​IMG]
    Flygon: The Revenge Kill / Scouter
    EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spe
    Nature: Jolly
    @ Choice Scarf
    1. Dragon Claw
    2. Earthquake
    3. Fire Blast/Thunder Punch
    4. U-Turn

    Purpose: Revenging any pokemon that may have become weakened or KO'ed. Flygon has far surpassed the DD Mance that was previously filling this slot, and being a Revenge killer he will never have to go Toe to Toe with one unless it is already low enough for a single Dragon Claw to tear through. Also by denting other pokemon as an opponent is switching for a safer match-up, he is accomplishing a few things for the team. 1) weakening steels that would otherwise wall my Linoone sweep, and 2) withering down walls so that if necessary he can come in and clean them up later on. (I am finding both Fire Blast, and Thunder Punch both very situational)

    Known Weakness: Nothing that any other Revenge killer wouldn't have to deal with. This pokemon really only fears a STAB Ice Shard from Wevile or Mamoswine, and that even is a unlikely event since he will only be coming out for an RK or to scare off Hetran.

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    Coverage Chart Updated:
    [​IMG]

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Currently I'm trying to find the weak points and then revamp the team as necessary, I'm defiantly not going to object to Pokemon switches if you think a different Pokemon will benefit the team more. Please reply, rate, and help me out with building the Team.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    *At risk of being dropped.


    -SPECIAL THANKS TO
    CBshuckle
    Ginganinja
    Jc104
    Pkmntrainerblue
    Setsuna
  2. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Messages:
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    Okey well I will give this a shot.

    Firstly I am not very experienced with creating a successful BD but I'll give it my best shot.

    Currently you get hammered if Gyarados gets a DD, therefore a Physical Mix Jirachi can help with this problem while still giving you maximum power with no set up. Next I was going to suggest a T-tar but them I remembered the little pixie Celebi. Celebi may seem odd but it gives you a psychic resistance and getting rid of your huge fighting weakness. It also has Perish Song. This moves kills all pokemon on the field in 3 turns unless they switch. On turn 2 you switch to Linoone and BellyDrum up as your opponient is forced to switch.

    You probbely still want to have a vaporeon on your team however to BP it a sub just in case. Also I thought about a slightly better sleep move since Hypnosis is so inaccurite. Smergle and Breloom are the best OU sleepers and Smergle is nice as a lead and can BP subs or even a Bellydrum. It can spore a lead pokemon (spore is 100% accurite) and generally disable a pokemon.
  3. TheOSC

    TheOSC

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
    55
    Thanks for the suggestions,
    The Rachi and Celebi are good ideas and will require me to playtest a little today before I make a decision on them. As for the Smergle I have actualy thought about running Smergle on this team, but decided against him due to issues with speed. As is Gengar will out speed most every common lead bar Aerodactyle, and Gliscore... leaving me with a 50% chance to hypnosis and only have 2 pokemon who can possibly taunt me. then assuming that I do miss my Hypnosis I will still have a chance to Destiny Bond. I will try out the Smeargle lead, but I anticipate Gengar will be staying in that slot.

    Any other ideas? (I really want to drop my Umbreon but don't know what for)
  4. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Well I mean't to suggest Celebi over Umbreon as then you have less of a fighting weakness.
  5. TheOSC

    TheOSC

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
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    Updated to V1.3. Major Changes, reason for change, and credits logged in the Team Building Revisited.

    BIG threat Hetran/Swampert.
  6. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
    is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Server Moderator Alumnus
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    Vaporeon can help against Heatran but a scarf or specs Latias over Mamoswine can cover both Swampert and Heatran while still checking things.

    Also I think that Heracross may be able to do what Yama is doing better authough it gives you another fire weakness...
    Still it is faster and resists swamperts earthquake while doing huge damage in return.

    Also why Iron Tail in Linnone. Is'nt Seed Bomb a better choice as it is more accurite and covers more?
  7. TheOSC

    TheOSC

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2009
    Messages:
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    I will try the Heracross out tomorrow after school and the nap I will inevitably need XD (its 2AM here and I have school at 6, needless to say I am going to bed after this post XD)

    I will also try out the Latias however I fear it may give me a issue with Gengar Sweeps having Latias, Rachi, and Gengar on my team.

    As for seed Bomb. lets just leave it at holy eff I forgot that he learned Seed Bomb XD.

    (also did you read the part about dropping Icepunch on Mixachi for Grass Knot, what do you think about that.)
  8. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Keep ice punch as what I suggested covers Swampert and Ice Punch is nice to have with all the dragons runninng around.

    Bullet Punch on Yama could help for Gengar if you don;t like Hera. Otherwise if you don't like Latias you could have a bulky Gyarados with taunt which gives you a swampert and a Heatran cheak. The catch is that you would have to drop Yama for it as Mammo would be needed to revenge dragons and take electric attacks directed at Gyarados and Vaporeon.
    Also with Seed Bomb Linnone can hit swampert pretty hard.

    Lastly if you really don't want Mammo a Flygon or swampert could help you. Flygon can revenge dragons (esp if it runs a scarf) and it can scout your opponients team with U-turn.
    Swampert (im talking a mixpert here) can set up SR so it makes it easier for Linnone to get extra KO's. It also cheaks dragons (authough no priority) but is more bulky and can phaze with roar to scout your opponients team which is very important when building a Belly Drum team.
  9. TheOSC

    TheOSC

    Joined:
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    After play testing my problems are still Hetran, Swampert, and opposing subs. Dropping anything for Latias is yet to be playtested but unfortunatly the Heracross was not much better than Hariyama. another problem is If my opponent has a bp sub of their own they will break mine on my set up and I am screwed... I am now looking at dropping Hariyama and Mamoswine, as their bulk vs speed is holding me back I feel on this team. Vaporeon is walling 90% of my enemies any way...

    UPDATED TO V1.8

    NEW POKEMON CELEBI, ALSO SALAMENCE RETURNS TO BREAK WALLS.
    (changes logged in the Team Building Revisit)
  10. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    K this team is starting to look very strong.
    However you are relying too much on Jirachi to revenge kill threats but an opponents DD salamence sweeps your entire team.
    To stop this you could give Jirachi a scarf or have a Latias or Flygon with a scarf over Salamence. I know that you lose a valuable sweeper however you really need something to stop DD mence.

    Also try considering 2 other sets for your celebi.
    The CM set that can give it more offensive power as do greater damage, or the Tinkerbell set which can actually fit in with this team. Authough Linnone has extreme speed sometimes (like against gengar) linoone cannot use Extremespeed and is too slow to outspeed Gengar and KO with Shadow Claw, With Para support Linnone is not tied to extreme speed and can use its other options. Plus there is always that 25% change of paralysis....
  11. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    Tested CM Celebi and it wasn't a great fit, however the Tinkerbell build was about at the same level as my current custom build. (I am now thinking about my lack of actual screen use and am considering keeping BOTH grass moves and picking up Psychic for another reliable stab, OR T-Wave to cripple DDmance. allowing him to be Revenged by my own Mance, Jirachi, or if gengar is still alive Gar's D-bond)

    I am also playing around with a few Flygon Choice Scarfs and do like the results, I am just afraid that I will be loosing to much coverage with this poke, also without DD Mance It is harder to keep up pressure.
  12. pkmntrainerblue

    pkmntrainerblue

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    Hey I just battled you and you linoone swept me 6-0.

    But anyway choice scarf Flygon seems like not a bad choice actually but it may be true that without Mence a few problems may pop up. Like walls your Jirachi may not be able to take out of the game. Flygon could come on in on those annoying steel types that hamper your linoone sweep and then Flygon could and revenge them so it opens up a really easy sweep for your linoone. Also I think a Life Orb enemy life orb or any Gengar could hamper you set up for your linoone sweep. With Thunderbolt taking preventing you from setting up substitutes (from your vaporeon) for your linoone. Then when you take Gengar out your vaporeon is really prone to revenge killing because of all of the thunderbolts you took and attempts to make a substitute. Then your linoone sweep will have a tough time setting up for a sweep. This Flygon could take those two problems out of the picture.

    Flygon @ Choice scarf
    nature jolly or adamant
    evs 4 HP 252 Atk 252 Spe
    Moves
    - Earthquake
    - Dragon Claw
    - Crunch
    - Thunderpunch

    Earthquake is for the steels as already stated above. Dragon Claw is for STAB and revenging other dragons. Crunch is for Gengar and other ghosts or psychics that come in your path. Thunderpunch is mostly there for a reliable move for Gyrados but you could use stone edge over it if you want to.
    other options
    using u-turn over any move you want. Not much else really.

    I hope this helps.
  13. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    Updated: V1.9 is now up and the team is running SMOOTH.

    Removed Salamance
    Choice Scarf Flygon added
    Removed Light Screen from Celebi
    Added Thunder Wave to Celebi
    Weakness Chart Updated
    Team Building section Updated
  14. ginganinja

    ginganinja Member of the Gamefreak ORAS Balancing Team
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    Well the CS set on flygon that blue recomended is nice but Flygon really wants U-turn over Crunch (U-turn hits similar things for damage anyway) for scouting and Fire Blast over Thunderpuch for Skarmory. Fire Punch could also be used unstead of Fire Blast but hiting Skarmory is nice as then it cannot wall your linnone and phaze it out.

    Also I still questian the use of 2 grass moves on Celebi. Thunder wave is nice to para pokemon or Perish song can help you set up a Belly Drum. Lastly Earth power is an option for hitting Heatran (and works best with Thunder wave as then scarf versions will not outspeed you if paralysed. Psychic is a nice STAB move but the pokemon it hits supereffectivally are limited, Heracross, Infernape, Machamp and Gengar are the most prominant ones but you should be running from Heracross, Infernape and Gengar anyway.

    EDIT: you beat me
  15. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    Lol Sry I guess I got here first.

    I will try out your Flygon build later tomorow and if it works I will throw up V2.0, also as for why I am running The E-ball and Grass Knot.

    In my experance with this team so far I have noticed that when I see Hetran it is easier to throw out Flygon/Vaporeon and just force it to switch. Most people are easy to read (as far as wether they are using a Fireblast/Eruption or Earthquake), so I just respond accordingly. Then, dent their next pokemon's health with either Surf or EQ. Eventualy they can't afford to switch Hetran out and he is KO'ed. HOWEVER, (getting back to having dual grass moves) I have had issues with a well played Rain Dance team, (and Water types in general both bulky and fast) where E-Ball was preferred for half of the team and Grass Knot for the other half (Starmie/Swampert). Now I DEFIANTLY see why having better coverage can be preferred (hit more things harder WHY NOT!!! =P), but so far it seems that the only time I really want Celebi out is to counter Bulky Water and Quick Water's running T-bolt (making Vaporeon an unsafe switch), so I have been running both moves.

    (I will try out your move switches as well though and see what works better).
  16. pkmntrainerblue

    pkmntrainerblue

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    Hey something really quick I got to go to school.

    The move set changes for Flygon I 100% agree with you Ginganinja. It is a lot smarter I forgot about skarmory which is immune to Earthquake (and Bronzong) So yeah good call ginganinja
  17. CBshuckle

    CBshuckle

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    A couple things here...
    First, using Linoone in OU is bold, to say the least. With even more powerful attackers, entry hazards, and sandstorm (or even hail), you will have a much more difficult time sweeping. Not only that, but in OU, strong priority is MUCH more common, so even once you get your salac, you are not invincible. Just switching in with SR and sandstorm and using belly drum will leave you at a maximum of 31% health, not too difficult to dismantle. Yes, substitute helps, but I see you lack the most important pokemon for a BD Linoone team - Uxie. You absolutely NEED a double screen memento user, because after uxie does his stuff, dealing 50%, 37%, or even 31% without a fighting-type move will become very difficult for the opponent.

    Another things is that even if you get off BD, steel-types resist all of your moves, so for that reason I would add a magnezone to take out a good portion of steel-types that you may see. However, a scarf magnezone might be a good choice because with its extra speed it can deal with: Heatran, Metagross, Skarmory (without shed shell), Forretress (without shed shell), Scizor, some Jirachi, etc. If the opponent keeps a skarmory or scizor hidden late-game, you could be in huge trouble.
  18. Alan

    Alan

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    The team itself looks solid enough, but I would change a few changes. Put Fire Blast on Flygon so that it can take down Skarmory, because Thunderpunch does shit to it, so its not reliable, drop Crunch for a Special Fire move, since Dragon Claw or Fire Blast should do enough to most ghost types.

    Linoone would benefit from Entry Hazards greatly, which could change some OHKOs to 2HKOs so I would drop Grass Knot or Energy ball on Celebi for Stealth Rock (pick the one that you don't seem to be using alot).

    To be blatantly honest, having an OU team centered around an Linoone sweep seems like quite a stretch, so if I were you, I would seriously consider him for something that can do its job, um, better, but if your bent on it, go for it. Also, I think that Seed Bomb >> Iron Tail on Linoone, because the only thing Iron Tail really hits thats super common in OU is Tyranitar, who is hit just as hard from Seed Bomb, which also hits Gyara for Neutral, Pert for 4x, Vappy for 2x, Suicune for 2x and many other pokemon for Neutral or SE damage.

    I hope these changes help you out, good luck.

    You need at least 100 posts before you can make one, I'm sorry.
  19. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    (EDIT: Seed bomb has been run on linoone since V1.1 lol I just forgot to update his moves.)

    The magnazone Idea seems solid enough to try so he will receive play testing today.
    The problem I have with Dropping either EB or GK on Celebi is that I use both equally... I guess If i have to though I will drop the GK and just hope from them best on Stab Energy Balls.

    (Also @Jewgong, the Idea of BP Linoone is a bit gimmicky but if I pace this team right it seems to win at least 2/3 matches...)

    as for the attack changes on Flygon I have actually already implemented those as well after noticing that Tpunch was hitting almost nothing that couldn't already be hit hard by Dclaw...
  20. BulletPunch

    BulletPunch

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    One thing, Uh t-bolt does more damage to Aero then hp ice. Ice is not supper effective to rock if thats what you were thinking.
  21. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    wow lol did I really say HP ice... sry I must have been tired. I post a lot of stuff at 2 am XD (probably thinking rock was ground or something XD)

    Swapped the Flygon moves btw, the u-turn is great for denting the team. (just like I need XD)
  22. jc104

    jc104 Humblest person ever
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    Since this team is based around Linoone, I have compiled a list of all of the OU pokemon that put a stop to him at full health, and it's scarily long. This does not include SR, which will hopefully explain why to use it along with some other things. I have listed everything regardless of how likely it is, assuming your current set:

    Bronzong - takes under 65% from a +6 shadow claw
    Dusknoir - always OHKOed by a +6 shadow ball after SR.
    Empoleon - a +6 seed bomb does 89% min.
    Forretress - not even 2HKOed by Extremespeed
    Scarf Gengar - immune to extremespeed and outruns.
    Heatran - extremespeed is far from an OHKO.
    Hippowdon - takes 80-90% from a +6 seed bomb.
    Scarf Jirachi - outruns and is not OHKOed by Extremespeed
    Lucario - 90% min from extremespeed.
    Magnezone
    Metagross
    Scizor
    Skarmory
    Snorlax -OHKO with SR
    Zapdos - OHKO after SR.

    First of all, I hope this makes it clear how helpful Scarf Magnezone could be. I have highlighted on the following list those taken out reliably by Scarf Magnezone, in bold, and slightly less well in italics. Then I will highlight those dealt with after SR in red .

    Bronzong
    Dusknoir
    Empoleon
    Forretress
    Scarf Gengar
    Heatran
    Hippowdon
    Scarf Jirachi
    Lucario
    Magnezone
    Metagross
    Scizor
    Skarmory
    Snorlax
    Zapdos

    This now looks pretty good, so maybe you should otherwise be focusing on how to get linoone in safely. As previously suggested by CB Shuckle, a DS Uxie with Memento is the best way to do this. Vaporeon's sub will usually be broken on the switch, meaning that Linoone can get hit after it comes in. Uxie has excellenty bulk and can do this easily. Just to give an idea of the level of damage done after reflect and Memento:

    4/0 Adamant Linoone +Reflect vs. 252 Adamant Choice Band Tyranitar -2 Crunch : 28.2% - 33.2%

    I was going to suggest reducing Linoone's speed, but I realised that Max in necessary to beat Scarf Rotom-A.

    With a team of Linoone, Uxie, Vaporeon, Flygon and Magnezone, you would need a lead that sets up SR. I would suggest Infernape for this role, since it is a good anti-lead and helps to scare off steels, whilst alos benefitting somewhat from screens, and helping break walls.

    Good luck
  23. Setsuna

    Setsuna Prototype
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    Although I dislike rating teams that have received a considerable percentage of changes and recommendations since they were posted, and even so still being weak to some notorious threats, I'll give yours a shot since you requested my presence here ;)
    To begin with, I can see that the way you built this team has specifically one goal: facilitate/clean the way for Linoone. That's ok, but when you make a team, you not only have to center the things around one Pokemon/combination, you also need to make sure that no relevant Pokémon of the metagame you're playing is going to pose a threat to your idea - this is what this team lacks and I'm planning on fixing right now.

    The first detail to notice is how the team dislikes to face Dragon-type Pokémon, particularly Salamence and Latias. Between your mons, the only one capable of dealing with these, is Jirachi, who happens to be the main answer to SD Lucario. Once Jirachi's out, the team won't be able to stand against Draco Meteors, Outrages, etcétera. One other thing to highlight is the absence of Stealth Rock, which I bet could be very useful for Linoone. SR is alsmot an obligatory move nowadays; the opportunity to cause some damage in each entry has proven, along the years, to be definitely valuable for almost every type of team. Besides the aforementioned Dragon-type problem, other common Pokémon, such as SD Lucario, SD Scizor and LO Starmie, can cause serious problems as well. For the first two, Jirachi is the best answer, but between the fact that he has to manage Dragon-type attacks and the nature that he is using lowers his Defense, it looks like he's gonna fall kind of fast; not forgetting that his task is to serve as a wall breaker more than a support member. So this part is a bit controversial too.

    Now, from a general standpoint, that lead you have there seems to be the most replaceable member, so I'm going to point out the first change in order to amend all that has been said before: Bronzong (explanation below):

    [​IMG]
    Sassy nature.
    EVs: 252 HP / 86 Atk / 80 Def / 92 SpD
    Stealth Rock | Light Screen | Reflect | Gyro Ball/Explosion

    Light Clay as the item. Here comes the interesting part of all this. SR is a must as I've stated before, and the opportunities that it brings to the team are important. The barriers are the new complement to the strategy, so let me explain about it. Probably what made me consider this, was the fact that you need at least two-three turns to prepare the field for Linoone (Vaporeon's Substitute plus "external force control", etc). Therefore, such a good support as Reflect and Light Screen won't be bad at all, only the contrary. This means the the team in general will have an easier time to contribute to the main strategy, while also giving your opponents a harder time break your movements apart. Finally, if you manage to get to Linoone with one/two screens and the Substitute up, the chances of succeeding will be really big. Concerning the last moveslot, you'll use Gyro Ball (0 Spe IVs in that case) to have a way to break some Substitutes, hit fast Pokémon like Latias, Gengar and Salamence, and Explosion is the last resort that will give a teammate a free switch in after a screen is in place. Additionally, Bronzong will serve as a pillar to endure those worrying Dragon-type moves that give your team trouble. That's why I mostly chose a Sassy nature instead of Relaxed or any other convenient to the defenses, since emphasizing on the special side is recommended due to the abundance of DM. Also, don't forget Bronzong can keep itself healthy via Vaporeon's Wish, so it's not like he's going to die once he sets up the screens.

    On Jirachi, I want you to change the nature to Naive, and move all HP EVs into Speed. The reason for this is simply because Jirachi needs to be able to take the least possible damage from SD Lucario's Extremespeed and Scizor's Bullet Punch, permitting him to take smaller amounts of damage from those moves after a Swords Dance. In reference to Speed EVs, the aim is to always outspeed Jolly Gliscor and tie with max Speed Salamence and any other positive base 100, and hence not fail to the opportunity to strike first.

    Lastly, replace Fire Blast on Flygon for Thunderpunch or Stone Edge in order to deal with DD Gyarados - another Pokémon that can cause havoc to the team. Speaking about Gyarados, I want you to consider/think of Scarf Rotom-h as a replacement for Celebi. Both Pokémon play very similar roles, and this type of Rotom manages extremely well against Lucario, Scizor, Gyarados... and also has the option of releasing the Scarf on a switch-in, crippling some wall, making a mon useless, etcétera.

    That'll be all. Good luck.
  24. TheOSC

    TheOSC

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    one thing, on the Bronzong would you recomend Levitate or Heatproof
  25. sbdnate

    sbdnate

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    Levitate is generally the better option.

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