Ladder Almost Any Ability

[grurk]

eq isn't just for steel and rock types, it hits rotom wash as well and all other steals that don't levitate the lastmove was for coverage and just showing that the last move would not be low kick. This conversation is pointless anyway, it doesn't change the fact that there are a very limited number of pokemon to take these things on in offense.

 

[xJownage]

eq isn't just for steel and rock types, it hits rotom wash as well and all other steals that don't levitate the lastmove was for coverage and just showing that the last move would not be low kick. This conversation is pointless anyway, it doesn't change the fact that there are a very limited number of pokemon to take these things on in offense.

rotom-w doesnt use levitate in this meta, and the amount of levitate usage is so uncommon its irrelevant to run a move just for levi in the first place. You have a point with mold breaker EQ, however it is probably better just to not worry about that.


Actually I am finding PH mons quite a bit easier to handle atm. The sweeper variants are almost always on stallish teams, and packing one slot for a big time wallbreaker such as heracross, serene grace shaymin-s, etc. isn't that hard.

 

[grurk]

rotom-w doesnt use levitate in this meta, and the amount of levitate usage is so uncommon its irrelevant to run a move just for levi in the first place. You have a point with mold breaker EQ, however it is probably better just to not worry about that.


Actually I am finding PH mons quite a bit easier to handle atm. The sweeper variants are almost always on stallish teams, and packing one slot for a big time wallbreaker such as heracross, serene grace shaymin-s, etc. isn't that hard.

you misunderstood my point so badly for using eq, the point was to hit rotom and leviblade and heatran are pretty come anyway.
Also I barely see the ph set up mons on stall and neither hera nor shaymin break goodra, unless it's banded tough claws and in which case it does but does not break suicune reliably if they predict herra to come in, im which case you're most likely going to be burned or be at very low hp after the second scald.

 

[xJownage]

you misunderstood my point so badly for using eq, the point was to hit rotom and leviblade and heatran are pretty come anyway.
Also I barely see the ph set up mons on stall and neither hera nor shaymin break goodra, unless it's banded tough claws and in which case it does but does not break suicune reliably if they predict herra to come in, im which case you're most likely going to be burned or be at very low hp after the second scald.

the words i used stallish teams meant fat teams, teams using semi-stall or variants of such not named full stall. However, crocune is still a staple on many stall teams. The way to beat these teams is to hit fast and hard.

 

[Pagoose]

Doublade is probably the best counter to snorlax. Both regenerator and levitate work. I like to run this set on my doublades:
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe (not actual speed evs)
Impish Nature
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword
- Toxic

Idk if this is standard on Doublade but it's what I use. Swords dance toxic is a cool set that allows you to serve as a win condition and a wall at the same time. It also helps you to whittle down physical walls. Hippowdon, mandibuzz, zapdos, mega slowbro... None of them appreciate a toxic. It retains the ability to counter many prominent threats, the main ones being braviary/staraptor and snorlax, along with pretty much every physical threat lacking a super effective stab move. It checks dragons too: the previous mentioned noivern is checked by this, as is latios. The great thing about regenblade is that you can scout for attacks without real consequence.

Suicune I usually run some sort of poison heal resist. Eg ph chesnaught or shaymin. Ferrothorn works too, although you might get burnt in the process. Even running some speed on my own suicune to roar it out first works.

I have never heard of setup goodra, what does it run?

 

[Kit Kasai]

*bump*

Please don't let this thread die, it has a perma ladder ;-;

Now Mamo and Terrak are both banned, it's extremely difficult to find another strong physical hitter that has the same combination of speed, power, and amazing coverage. Have you guys experimented with anything new to try to fill that role? Here are some things I thought up, of varying viability:

Heracross @ Choice Scarf / Choice Band / Life Orb
Ability: Tough Claws
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Megahorn
- Knock Off
- Facade / Earthquake / Stone Edge

Heracross has great powerful STAB and solid attack. The only problem is its somewhat low speed and relative frailty. Still, Tough Claws Close Combat from Heracross hits just slightly weaker than Terrakion's Close Combat. It still maintains the ability to cleanly 2HKO Skarmory.

252 Atk Life Orb Tough Claws Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 187-222 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 159-187 (47.6 - 55.9%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (if you're running scarf)

Garchomp @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Fire Blast
- Stone Edge

Garchomp has great speed and attack and decent coverage. Unfortunately, Dragon / Ground by itself is not very great coverage, so it cannot make as much out of Adaptability as other users can (and Earthquake can't benefit from Tough Claws).

Garchomp @ Lum Berry / Leftovers
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake / Iron Head
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Substitute
- Swords Dance

This is a more setup oriented take on Garchomp, and is probably much more viable. Tinted Lens makes it much easier for Garchomp to setup and sweep after would be counters are weakened. Iron Head or Stone Edge should probably be used so you don't get shit on by Togekiss.

+2 252 Atk Tinted Lens Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
And then you probably get stopped by something like Unaware Skarm :[

 

[imas]

Well since this is dying atm, here's two new sets i've had luck with.

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- ExtremeSpeed
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

So, in my CLC team i wanted to try out some things i always wanted to use. So, i decided on using zygarde again (hadn't used it since protean), a mon i always hated facing due to it's massive physical bulk stopping it from being killed by my priority spam :[ . After a coil it's next to impossible to kill with priority and upon usage it turned out to be even better than i first expected it to be. Magic Bounce (which was kinda inspired by lcass's garchomp set and me wanting to not use the usual ph/fridge) let it setup on phasers, beat things like hippo and basically provided my team with a nice switchin to status/hazards. This was a refreshing change since i never run magic bounce. It served as a good offensive check to gale wings and could even beat gale wings skarm 1v1 if they start setting up together(cannot beat an already set up skarm).


Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Energy Ball
- Ice Beam
- Tail Glow
- Scald

Since i wanted to actually do well on the challenge i finally decided to pack a dedicated suicune counter. I'd also been meaning to use manaphy for a while so, i thought this up. This thing switches into cune and sets up in its face. Its overall good bulk meant that it does not revenged by gale wings or atespeed after that initial tail glow allowing it to possibly pull off a sweep (this is also why i didn't use a grass type like celebi). It's basically a good offensive unaware mon.

 

[Pagoose]

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

A cool set that is very fun to use! This thing tears through bulky teams like nobody's business. Adaptability stone edge deals upwards of 60% to physically defensive behemoths such as suicune and skarmory. However, there are some counters to this sets, such as chesnaught. If one of those pokemon are on the opponents team, then instead of spamming stone edge, you can utilize arguably the best thing about this set: pursuit. It can straight up OHKO some special walls, or at the very lest severely weaken them, paving the way for other pokemon to sweep. For example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 394-464 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 418-492 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 390-460 (60.7 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even some physically defensive pokemon die:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 424-500 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 256-302 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, yeah. If you are having trouble against stall teams, consider using this pokemon!

 

[xJownage]

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower

A cool set that is very fun to use! This thing tears through bulky teams like nobody's business. Adaptability stone edge deals upwards of 60% to physically defensive behemoths such as suicune and skarmory. However, there are some counters to this sets, such as chesnaught. If one of those pokemon are on the opponents team, then instead of spamming stone edge, you can utilize arguably the best thing about this set: pursuit. It can straight up OHKO some special walls, or at the very lest severely weaken them, paving the way for other pokemon to sweep. For example:

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 394-464 (102.6 - 120.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Snorlax: 418-492 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 390-460 (60.7 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even some physically defensive pokemon die:
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 424-500 (104.9 - 123.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 396-468 (100.5 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 168+ Def Zapdos: 256-302 (66.6 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

So, yeah. If you are having trouble against stall teams, consider using this pokemon!

This might be the best pursuit trapper in AAA atm because its very powerful and does loads of damage to bulky cores. If you really don't like chesnaught, aerial ace can be used in the last slot to lure it out and hit most fighting types in the tier. Superpower doesn't do a whole lot for this set because stone edge hits almost every dark type harder, and the only things that t-tar hates are fighting types in general. Ice punch/earthquake are also usable in that slot.

 

[Mr155551]

*uses max revive*

but for real we can't let the thread die let's talk about this.

 

[Isa Simple]

*uses max revive*

but for real we can't let the thread die let's talk about this.

If you are trying to revive a thread you should probably attempt to start some sort of discussion, bringing with you something to talk about rather than just saying "let's talk about this".
You're just waisting your max revives.

I don't actually play this meta at all but it seems pretty cool so I'll try start some discussion. The first thing that jumps to my mind is Weather.

With any pokemon being able to inherit a weather inducing or abusing abilities I could easily see it being quite dominant if used correctly.

There is almost infinite options for both setters and abusers. I mean any strong pivot, defensive or offensive, would make a great setter and any powerful attacker would be able to destroy with Sand Rush/Chlorophyll/Swift Swim.

Does anyone have any experience with using weather, or if not, what would you use on a weather team?

 

[imas]

Weather teams generally consist of weather setter + abuser.

Sun's most common member is Specs Chlorophyll Heatran, and basically any good fire type with drought supports it. Actually you don't even need a fire type drought setter, anything that would be happy with a water nerf can work instead.

Rain also has a bunch of possibilities, any good water type can be a rain setter- both bulky and offensive works. Most common member's probably Specs gale wings Tornadus. As for swift swim, anything can be a swift swimmer, but in this case rain has an "advantage" because stuff with thunder/hurricane or just a good water type would love rain where as sun mainly boosts fire types.

Sand and hail is rarely used, mainly because nothing actually gets boosted by the sandstorm making sun/rain better options for the most part. I personally ran a sand team with sand rush rampardos once, didn't do too badly.

 

[Jaguar360]

I'm not too good at using weather teams, but I built a rain team a while back that worked out decently. I like Rotom-W as a Drizzle-setter thanks to its access to a slow Volt Switch and it benefits from the 100% accurate Thunder and powered-up Hydro Pump as well. I think I used Dragonite as a backup Drizzle-setter from its access to recovery and ThunderCane, though I think it would also be nice with Swift Swim or Dry Skin.

Tinted Lens or Mold Breaker Water types in general seem like good picks for Rain teams to bypass resists and immunities, respectively. Mold Breaker Pokemon also benefit from boosting moves or status moves since they ignore Unaware and Magic Bounce as well. Tinted Lens Specs Empoleon with Hydro Pump hits super hard in the rain, for instance, having a chance at OHKOing Ferrothorn.

Now that I think about it, Swift Swim Manaphy seems super threatening. It essentially gets to +3 SpA / +2 Spe after a Tail Glow in the rain. Something to watch out for.

 

[Klang]

Announcement:

So the AAA council has been talking recently and after some discussion a vote is now in progress on the implementation of a 2 ability clause, similar to BH and for almost the same reasons. The reasoning behind this clause is it would help limit ability spam that some people deem unhealthy for the metagame and forces people to run counters instead of checks for certain abilities (Gale Wings being the most obvious) which some people think causes teambuilding constraints and makes the meta less fun.

My post in the council conversation sums the situation up nicely I think:

I wouldn't say that ability spam is completely broken, but rather can cause serious team constraints and match-up issues that generally make the metagame less appealing as a whole. For example, the possibility of GW spam (we know GW isn't broken individually) means that you can't only carry a check on more offensive teams, but rather a solid counter such as Skarmory or Zapdos that needs to be able to take on 3 or 4 Gale Wingers in a row without dying - failure to have something rock solid to take on GW usually means GW spam will destroy you. With an ability clause however, your options for dealing with Gale Wings would be significantly expanded.

Regenerator spam and PH spam (or both combined), while also not individually broken, leaves teams without significantly strong firepower helpless, in addition to making stall versus stall quite literally last forever.

It is possible that Protean may not be broken individually as well - the basis of its ban was spam teams.

This is obviously quite a change so I'd like to gauge the community's opinion on this before the vote finishes. In addition, since I fucked up and ended up with 8 council members instead of 7 after I mistakenly thought one of them had quit, the community consensus (Basically the winner between the votes posted in the thread) will count as the 9th vote, so make sure to have your opinion heard!

 

[Throbulator36]

Announcement:

So the AAA council has been talking recently and after some discussion a vote is now in progress on the implementation of a 2 ability clause. The reasoning behind this clause is it would help limit ability spam that some people deem unhealthy for the metagame and forces people to run counters instead of checks for certain abilities (Gale Wings being the most obvious) which some people think causes teambuilding constraints and makes the meta less fun.

My post in the council conversation sums the situation up nicely I think:


This is obviously quite a change so I'd like to gauge the community's opinion on this before the vote finishes. In addition, since I fucked up and ended up with 8 council members after I mistakenly thought one of them had quit, the community consensus (Basically the winner between the votes posted in the thread) will count as the 9th vote, so make sure to have your opinion heard!

I was the first to suggest this in the thread so you know my vote. I'm gonna quote my post from earlier:

I'd say the best way to unbreak Gale wings would be an ability clause like BH. Not only does this prevent GW spam but also promotes creativity and diversity in the metagame.

however GW spam is broken and needs to be limited. I mentioned earlier an ability clause as a way to debreak it.

In addition I think PH+Regenerator teams are incredibly hard to break with either playstyle and a post-clausal re-test of protean would be good

Implement

 

[E4 Flint]

As I discussed with you before klang and when I also suggested having a reboot of AAA with an ability clause, I definitely agree that it is something that should be implemented. However, I feel a little differently on having a 2 ability clause as opposed to a strict 1 ability clause. This 2 ability clause does not actually solve the problem of stall vs stall, as most teams are sufficient with only 2 regens and 2 ph. In fact, it may make the games even more prolonged since the last slots will very likely be filled with magic bounce or some other similar ability, and I don't think current stall teams function with more of two of each in any case. It could be argued that this could actually make stall's matchup even better vs offense since now the only real "strategy" that you are limiting is mindless mono gale wing or (insert ability) nuke spam, that as you mentioned, stall has to take great steps to stop at the cost of being weak to other offensive threats. Meanwhile, an offense team can still lose to gale wings "spam" even if the spam is only 2 instead of 6 and still has to take nearly the same measures against it while also considering the newly expanded stall portion of the metagame.

I see parallels of this with what happened with BH, where the dual ability clause did nothing but stamp out niche or gimmicky mono teams - and that was with the added flexibility of adding any move you wish and(at the time) having max EV's in all stats. I strongly feel that a strict 1 ability clause is the way to go.

In addition, a more radical step could possibly be the reversal of all AAA-specific current bans in the AAA metagame if a one ability clause is put into effect, purely because I feel that you should at least retest all of them if you are changing one of the basic rules of the meta. As you said with protean, it could be possible that other abilities could potentially be given another chance if everything is limited, and perhaps create more diversity than before.

I do think the addition of an ability clause at all is a positive step forward and should heavily be preferred in a 1 or 2 clause form over doing nothing at all.

Just my opinion.

 

[TyranitarKnight]

So I see that Moody isn't banned. That might go well with a BPassing Smeargle.

 

[Scyther NO Swiping]

So I see that Moody isn't banned. That might go well with a BPassing Smeargle.

from OP "What is AAA?
AAA is a standard version of OU with a simple twist- your pokemon can swap out their normal abilities for almost any ability of your choosing (see the banlist below for abilities that are not allowed.) This opens the door to a very unique metagame, and a host of fascinating sets."

Meaning OU Clauses, which means Moody Clause which means Moody is banned. :(

 

[Mr155551]

Just as i thought gale spam will die that way of course it happened in BH and inheritance so it's about time AAA had it

 

[aesf]

Well there's a quote that went something like "If it's not broken, don't fix it", and I think that applies to this ability clause. Until someone can find me some concrete evidence where a single ability has easily overwhelmed a team whereas 2 of those ability things could not, I don't see how anything is wrong. Basically, using gale wings as an example, if someone can show me how a 4 or 5 or 6 gale wings team demolished a team that a team with 2 gale wings users + team support could not overwhelm, then gale wings would probably be the biggest problem. And not just "I almost lost to this" level. I want protean spam level evidence, where 1 protean would not have done much damage, but suddenly 3 or 4 proteans easily overwhelms most teams and has literally no counters. I really don't see any group of abilities or single ability that is anywhere close to warranting a new rule.

A 2-ability clause doesn't really help out that much besides add yet another complex ban. Maybe you're running 3 Poison healers, but honestly, you could just change that PH suicune to Unaware suicune, and your team might actually perform better after that. In my experience, 5 or 6 bird teams don't perform very well when they're all gale wings, but 5 or 6 bird teams with only 1 or 2 gale wings usually do extremely well in practice. The same applies for most teams; a 2 ability clause wouldn't really stop too much outside of restricting something that really doesn't need to be restricted.

Meanwhile, a 1-ability clause...there's a line between making a healthy decision and being limiting, and I think this crosses it. Look, maybe it would tune down some ability spam, but again, why make a new rule when something isn't even broken? Many effective teams already have only 1 ability per mon, but why limit some of the possibilities that could be made with 2 of the same ability on the same team or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6?

tl;dr I don't see how anything's wrong.

 

[Monte Cristo]

"tl;dr I don't see how anything's wrong."
what's wrong is your outlook on this

why should we promote a "lame" metagame that is over centralized over 1 ability or 2 abilities (ph and gw) whee it doesn't inspire innovation or creativity and promotes over saturation

this metagame is very free right now, if you use a basic rainspam team or hyper offense it's kind of free. I didn't play a big session of aaa for 4 months and I managed to like 3-0 motherlove on my first try because this metagame is FREE AS FUCK.

I know what I'm saying doesn't sound nearly as band-wagonable or as likable as myself in the past or aesf right now have said but it is the cold hard truth.

I don't want to hear "you're just using an excuse to brag" or "that's not concrete evidence" because motherlove and aesf are players who have dominated the ladder and heir fellow players and me being an inactive formerly somewhat good player being able to get 3-0s or even 5-0s against them SOLEY depending on team matchup is just dumb. And I've already proven to myself that I can just 5-0 them based off of team matchup, which is DUMB.

Team matchup is basically the meta rn, it's very hard to lose if you have even a slight team lead unless you choke, especially if the team matchup favors gimmicks and 1/2 ability spam.

I basically use 3 ph + 3 really strong mons like A+/S or 3 ph + 2 A+/S tiers + 1 gimmick so I can have some fun. Try it, PH is really easy to fit on a team, forms good cores, and isn't broken alone but just amkes such solid glue that you're never going to lose momentum, the lead OR the ability to win out of nowhere based off of 1 set up.

AAA is my favorite meta and has been since I made it but it's clear that it's just lame and uncreative. I mean I hate gimmicks but I hate lame metas even more.

 

[aesf]

"tl;dr I don't see how anything's wrong."
what's wrong is your outlook on this

why should we promote a "lame" metagame that is over centralized over 1 ability or 2 abilities (ph and gw) whee it doesn't inspire innovation or creativity and promotes over saturation

this metagame is very free right now, if you use a basic rainspam team or hyper offense it's kind of free. I didn't play a big session of aaa for 4 months and I managed to like 3-0 motherlove on my first try because this metagame is FREE AS FUCK.

I know what I'm saying doesn't sound nearly as band-wagonable or as likable as myself in the past or aesf right now have said but it is the cold hard truth.

I don't want to hear "you're just using an excuse to brag" or "that's not concrete evidence" because motherlove and aesf are players who have dominated the ladder and heir fellow players and me being an inactive formerly somewhat good player being able to get 3-0s or even 5-0s against them SOLEY depending on team matchup is just dumb. And I've already proven to myself that I can just 5-0 them based off of team matchup, which is DUMB.

Team matchup is basically the meta rn, it's very hard to lose if you have even a slight team lead unless you choke, especially if the team matchup favors gimmicks and 1/2 ability spam.

I basically use 3 ph + 3 really strong mons like A+/S or 3 ph + 2 A+/S tiers + 1 gimmick so I can have some fun. Try it, PH is really easy to fit on a team, forms good cores, and isn't broken alone but just amkes such solid glue that you're never going to lose momentum, the lead OR the ability to win out of nowhere based off of 1 set up.

AAA is my favorite meta and has been since I made it but it's clear that it's just lame and uncreative. I mean I hate gimmicks but I hate lame metas even more.

Okay, I get what you're saying, but I just want to point out that you can probably be just as successful by changing, say, a ph zapdos to magic guard, and then you wouldn't be violating the ability clause. The match-up problems would be the same if you did that. The reason you're winning is far more because of synergy than because PH spam is an issue.

Look, maybe you see it differently, but I actually like how the metagame is "FREE AS FUCK". One of the reasons I joined OM was because of how many more possibilities there were, and I hoped the metagames wouldn't be centered around a few pokemon (and I'd say AAA actually isn't right now, and that's one of the reasons I've continued playing it). Sure you built that team around 4 months ago, but I don't see how this is an argument; your team had good role and type synergy, and I don't see how that can change too much. Anyways, I know for a fact that all the times you beat me happened when I used either a very new team that I had never/almost never tested or a gimmick team. Motherlove also likes to test teams, although I won't be able to confirm whether he was when you faced him.

I really don't feel that gale wings centralizes the meta, again, unless someone proves this; all I can say is that I've built many teams that hadn't even considered gale wings that performed very well. Poison heal is just a good ability that can fit on things that need reliable recovery and don't want to use regenerator.

 

[E4 Flint]

Well there's a quote that went something like "If it's not broken, don't fix it", and I think that applies to this ability clause. Until someone can find me some concrete evidence where a single ability has easily overwhelmed a team whereas 2 of those ability things could not, I don't see how anything is wrong. Basically, using gale wings as an example, if someone can show me how a 4 or 5 or 6 gale wings team demolished a team that a team with 2 gale wings users + team support could not overwhelm, then gale wings would probably be the biggest problem. And not just "I almost lost to this" level. I want protean spam level evidence, where 1 protean would not have done much damage, but suddenly 3 or 4 proteans easily overwhelms most teams and has literally no counters. I really don't see any group of abilities or single ability that is anywhere close to warranting a new rule.

The answer to this is that it is true that these are not broken. That is not really why Klang and those who support ability clause wish to implement it. Refer to Klang's OP:

So the AAA council has been talking recently and after some discussion a vote is now in progress on the implementation of a 2 ability clause, similar to BH and for almost the same reasons. The reasoning behind this clause is it would help limit ability spam that some people deem unhealthy for the metagame and forces people to run counters instead of checks for certain abilities (Gale Wings being the most obvious) which some people think causes teambuilding constraints and makes the meta less fun.

My post in the council conversation sums the situation up nicely I think:
I wouldn't say that ability spam is completely broken, but rather can cause serious team constraints and match-up issues that generally make the metagame less appealing as a whole. For example, the possibility of GW spam (we know GW isn't broken individually) means that you can't only carry a check on more offensive teams, but rather a solid counter such as Skarmory or Zapdos that needs to be able to take on 3 or 4 Gale Wingers in a row without dying - failure to have something rock solid to take on GW usually means GW spam will destroy you. With an ability clause however, your options for dealing with Gale Wings would be significantly expanded.

Regenerator spam and PH spam (or both combined), while also not individually broken, leaves teams without significantly strong firepower helpless, in addition to making stall versus stall quite literally last forever.

It is possible that Protean may not be broken individually as well - the basis of its ban was spam teams.

When Monte says the meta has become "LAME", I am pretty sure that this is what he refers to, and I fully agree. AAA has really nosedived in activity relative to what it was when it was launched because although you don't have to run those abilities and may even perform better against certain teams if you don't spam a few abilities, but there is nothing stopping anyone from currently doing so. I know I personally and many others have been driven away from the metagame because a few abilities have become so dominant that one has to resort to gimmick or test teams, or run the same abilities themselves.Also keep note of the last line which I shall get back to later.


Now I shall point out why ability clause is necessary by addressing your most recent post:

Look, maybe you see it differently, but I actually like how the metagame is "FREE AS FUCK". One of the reasons I joined OM was because of how many more possibilities there were, and I hoped the metagames wouldn't be centered around a few pokemon (and I'd say AAA actually isn't right now, and that's one of the reasons I've continued playing it).

First of all I think the second half is completely wrong. I think we can agree that AAA is centralized heavily towards a few abilities such as Regenerator, Poison Heal, Unaware and Gale Wings, which are much more relevant than 'mons, which is why we are discussing an ability clause and not pokemon bans. So "centered" around a few pokemon" isn't really relevant.
Now I'll get to the main point of why ability clause is necessary. As you mentioned above, you say that you joined OM because of how many possibilities there are, and indeed that is why I play many OMs as well. However, it doesn't truly matter how many possibilities there are if the metagame as a whole is centered around only a handful of abilities that either you are forced to run or forced to stop, and the latter can be near impossible if you only have 1 stop, and are facing 2, 3 or more of the same thing. In addition, I fail to see the "possibilities" that you supposedly get by running the same ability over and over on the team. You could argue that sure the typing and coverage moves change, or you could even have two distinct sets for the same ability, such as Gale Wings, where you can have a physical Brave Bird set, and a special Hurricane set.This is not actually what is happening though. Many times, it quite literally is the same set copied over with a change in coverage based on the STAB or what is available to the new mon, enforced by the species clause, which can be seen in teams with multiple Gale Wings. Other times, it is more subtle where you may have a Special PH wall and a Physical PH wall which may stop different things, but a team that does not prepare for PH will still suffer heavily against both if they as Klang mentioned, simply lack the firepower to just kill them outright. This is ignoring the gimmick mono spam teams completely, the argument against which I put in my last post and can expand upon again if needed.

Next:

I just want to point out that you can probably be just as successful by changing, say, a ph zapdos to magic guard, and then you wouldn't be violating the ability clause.

Maybe you're running 3 Poison healers, but honestly, you could just change that PH suicune to Unaware suicune, and your team might actually perform better after that.

I am not mentioning Monte specifically here because I know he makes his own ideas, but I also want to point out that yes, one could be as successful or more by taking some time to think of new ways to use abilities to achieve the same result. My question is why should he? It takes very little thought to just slap PH on someone and go. With an abiltiy clause however, people would have to resort to thinking through their teams, and making use of other abilities. And as you did note, you are achieving the same level of efficiency without violating the ability clause or i.e. the ability clause does not hamper your ability (heh) to run nearly the same strategies. What is changing is the creation of new matchups that the use of new abilities will undoubtedly bring (either by some kind of unique typing, moveset or stats)

As to why, I think 1 ability clause is more necessary than two, well I'll use your posts again:

A 2-ability clause doesn't really help out that much besides add yet another complex ban.
...
In my experience, 5 or 6 bird teams don't perform very well when they're all gale wings, but 5 or 6 bird teams with only 1 or 2 gale wings usually do extremely well in practice. The same applies for most teams; a 2 ability clause wouldn't really stop too much

Many effective teams already have only 1 ability per mon, but why limit some of the possibilities that could be made with 2 of the same ability on the same team or 3 or 4 or 5 or 6?

(I've already mentioned why I think it is wrong to say it is something that is "not needed to be restricted")
You mention how a two ability clause would not change much and I agree which is why I suggested a 1 ability clause (along with the other reasoning in my old post about stall probably getting a good advantage with a 2 ability clause). In addition, by enforcing the one ability clause, we may be able to use old abilities such as Protean and Speed Boost which can otherwise dominate the meta alone in a free for all, or 2 allowed, state. There is no way to know whether an ability that is overpowered in a free for all setting is overpowered in a limited setting except for the most obvious way, which is to retest them (I am of course excluding abilities such as Wonder Guard here, which are known to be broken even in a 1 allowed setting). By doing so, we may run into the same bans, but I do feel that some will not be banned completely which again opens up a new batch of possibilities of how to use that ability and how to stop it.

tldr/Conclusion:
AAA is a metagame centered around ability play, so I definitely would want to see teams with a varied selection of abilities, instead of just having different mons centered around defeating or using just a handful of them. An ability clause would bring in new abilities that are used, it would reduce the need to prepare extensively for a certain ability more than others, and would bring in new matchups and therefore promote more diversity. I see a net gain in possibilities here, and a good way to reinvigorate an increasingly stale meta.

 

[grurk]

I'd just like to say I've never seen a team with more than 2 of ability be particularly good, and I don't understand how it is in of any benefit to an already very balanced metagame. However I think that a limit of both gale wings and some other testable abilities could be beneficial, but I'm on the fence about gale wings due to it not actually being that bad for offense due to the large number of mons that beat it, like refrigerate (you can have something else for skarm) or a number of other flying resist, like regen rotom (who was on about half of my early teams). Furthermore ph and regen don't seem to be that bad, the insufficient fire-power problem to beat them isn't a compelling argument due to you needing something that can beat 1 ph mon if it tries to set up, I was at one point very annoyed with the existence of ph and set up, but then someone reminded me that offense finds it easy to put something like heracross or shaymin on a team who generally beat set up ph (unless suicune burns you), so in my mind there either needs to be no ph or as many as you want. regenerator seems completely fine with me, but I do think that stall v stall matchup could go on forever, but that can happen with 2 regen/ph mons (which is the most you'll see anyhow)
To me this suspect is like banning a not very viable mon, sure it won't really affect me, but it makes no sense to do so.
p.s.I use a lot of brackets.

 

[The Immortal]

Kl4ng I took the liberty of adding Landorus-I to unbanned Pokemon.