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Metagame Almost Any Ability (Post 612: Challenge 3)

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Laxpras, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. sin(pi)

    sin(pi) lucky n bad

    Joined:
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    tfw u realise reqs are only 2700 (open)
    [​IMG]

    not much to say which hasn't been said, BAN FLUFFY
  2. 3.14dgeot-Mega

    3.14dgeot-Mega

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2015
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    reqs (open)

    [​IMG]

    everything i have to say about fluffy has already said, so ban fluffy
  3. Serrak

    Serrak

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    26
    Fluffy reqs.JPG
    This is my first time getting reqs for a suspect test so I don't know if I've attached the screencap properly, but I'm voting to ban fluffy. It basically doubles defense in most relevant circumstances, and the best Fluffy users are those that either have good matchup against most methods of circumventing it or count on a partner to handle Fire coverage anyhow. It's just too much value for too little cost (*cough* Poison Heal *cough*).
    Funbot28 likes this.
  4. Laxpras

    Laxpras Laxpras F baby, the F is for phenomenal
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Jun 20, 2015
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    MASS BAN ANNOUNCEMENT
    Fluffy has been banned by a lopsided voting spread of 21-3.

    More importantly, based on community outcry thanks to you guys, and my constant nagging, TI has also allowed our council to vote to quickban on several aspects of the meta. We required a unanimous vote to quickban, and this resulted in the following 5 items being unanimously banned:
    Dragonite, Kyurem-Black, Illusion, Protean, Stakeout.

    For reference, we also discussed the following, most of which were ban favored, but were debated and thus will remain in the AAA metagame for now:
    Hoopa-Unbound, Kartana, Snorlax, Suicune, Xurkitree, Innards Out, Poison Heal, Stamina.

    I'm excited that we're finally going to be able to get this meta going in a much more stable, and hopefully fun, manner. We are discussing some other major changes to the meta, which I will bring to the thread at a later time once the meta has settled on account of these changes. Notably, we are focused on addressing the generally overwhelming strength of stall in the meta.

    Summary:
    • Fluffy has been banned as a result of the suspect test
    • The following have been banned by unanimous council votes:
      • Dragonite
      • Kyurem-Black
      • Illusion
      • Stakeout
      • Protean

    Thank you to everyone who participated in the suspect test, and an additional shoutout to those who spoke out about the meta. Your voices were vital for the persuasion to allow these changes to happen.
    So, how are all of these changes going to affect the meta? There is certainly a lot to discuss!

  5. Aku Mau Ngetroll

    Aku Mau Ngetroll

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    i'm suggesting a ban or a suspect for a Dugtrio. yes we already ban Arena Trap, but Dugtrio is still the original abuser, so it can still use Arena Trap. while stall lose a fluffy, they still have many options, and eliminate the threat to team with Duggy. i think it still too much to handle.
  6. Zephyr Dragon Lord

    Zephyr Dragon Lord

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    RIP Protean. It's a terribly fun ability to play around with...
    The rest of those are stuff I'm happy is gone. I was going to make a Stakeout post... but now I don't need to!
    If OU can handle Duggy, AAA can, as well. The whole metagame got better around it. Plus, hazards break its Sash. Right now, though... defense has a much better hold on the meta right now. Dugtrio is not the big part so much than Poison Heal Zygarde and Tapu Fini being powerful forces. We may need a Zygade suspect eventually....
  7. Ryota Mitarai

    Ryota Mitarai

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
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    Lol why isn't this posted here yet?
    Minigod (open)
    Minior @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Dazzling
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature / Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Acrobatics
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake


    So here how this god set can work:
    Click Shell Smash. Taunt your opponent to try to OHKO you. Activate Focus Sash and start spamming Acrobatics. If the opponent resists Acrobatics for some reason, spam Stone Edge and/or Earthquake. Keep it away from Mold Breaker shenanigans, Stealth Rock, Unaware, and multi-hit moves. Dazzling gives you permanent imunnity to priority moves, which would straight away kill Minior after Shell Smash.

    Calcs (open)
    +2 252+ Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kartana: 261-307 (100.7 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Alakazam: 447-526 (178 - 209.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Terrakion: 357-421 (110.5 - 130.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Minior Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 280-330 (68.7 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    drampa's grandpa likes this.
  8. darksylvion

    darksylvion

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    Not gonna lie, that set is a beast against offense as sitting at 120 base speed minior is impossible to outspeed at +2 and gets more than excellent coverage, but most of the time it doesn't do anything vs balanced and absolutely nothing against stall, as 100 offenses are just not enough in general.
    motherlove and Klang like this.
  9. G-Luke

    G-Luke We Eat Losers
    is a Pre-Contributor

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    Isnt Minior like Aegislash in that its other form cannot be accessed without its signature ability
  10. ScarfWynaut

    ScarfWynaut

    Joined:
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    IIRC it's sent out in its core form first, then immediately its ability activates and transforms it to Meteor Form. That's how it works in-game iirc.
    Then without its ability theoretically it wouldn't transform initially at all, maintaining its Core form.
    iirc

    e: iirc
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2017
  11. Iynhe

    Iynhe

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    My team has a dragonite and a protean latias. Well, crap.
    I don't think that minior will change form, btw.
    G-Luke likes this.
  12. motherlove

    motherlove

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    That sounds fun, let's all have a wild guess as to what happens when minior is sent in battle.

    Hmmm.... I think I'll go with doesn't change.


    EDIT: iirc.
    darksylvion and Klang like this.
  13. NinjaFreeze8

    NinjaFreeze8

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    Feb 7, 2017
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    I don't think Fluffy needs a ban, I can't vote, but I'll give my opinion anyway. Banning cannot revolve in around what's happening in the meta. Sure right now Scald is pretty powerful, and Grass can't do anything to Water, but here's my idea. I think soon if you ban Fluffy the meta will immediately change to a meta where Psychic and Dark types would be pretty powerful since without any shields someone can use spore then Psytrike or something and instantly kill you. This guess is what would happen to the meta if Fluffy did get banned since I did see a lot of people who wanted to ban it.
    DIE! DIE! DIE! (Mewtwo-Mega-Y) @ Safety Goggles
    Ability: Mold Breaker
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Aura Sphere
    - Dream Eater
    - Dark Pulse
    - Spore
  14. Zephyr Dragon Lord

    Zephyr Dragon Lord

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    I... have several problems with this.
    1.) This is not Balanced Hackmons.
    2.) Are you really using Dream Eater as primary STAB?
    3.) Mega Mewtwo... who is unreleased, anyways.

    (As a side note, Fur Coat is allowed in Balanced Hackmons anyways)
  15. xRoyUltra

    xRoyUltra

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    How come Dragonite got banned?
  16. darksylvion

    darksylvion

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    Dragonite was deemed to be too powerful for the meta, it had a myriad of sets including but not limited to Banded aerialate, dragon dance aerialate, protean , tough claws, mixed lure etc. You can see a pattern here, everyone of these sets have different said counters and now that fluffy was banned it was even more difficult to stop it for a defensively oriented team from sweeping late game, so basically it was this or aerialate.
    But aerialate itself wasn't borked as dragonite boasted powerful priority in extreme speed, which most other aerialate sweepers don't have or either don't get STAB thus making it excellent late game win con, with ability to get past said counters using appropriate coverage, like stone edge for zapdos, fire blast for skarmory etc. while having a decent typing and bulk for a sweeper.
    tegrof19 likes this.
  17. EV

    EV General
    is a Battle Server Administratoris a Super Moderatoris a Site Staff Alumnusis a Smogon Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    PS Policy Head

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    Has your opinion changed now that OU is suspecting Dugtrio?
  18. crystalcash

    crystalcash

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    To clear up something on the Minior thing- yes I'm pretty sure it transforms. My original suspect ladder run 30-6 was done with 1 minior test team that LaxLapras originally gave to me when I was inactive, I made some tweaks on my own later on. Minior is an insanely underutilized pokemon that carves out a deadly niche in the metagame that people have taken way too long to start to abuse. It's reliance on support to get rid of hazards, break sashes, and weaken walls/unaware mons is honestly the only reason why it's still legal. If any of you guys want the team- here it is.

    importable (open)

    Thundurus @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Stakeout
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Superpower
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Volt Switch

    Genesect @ Choice Band
    Ability: Stakeout
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 Atk / 200 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Blaze Kick
    - Extreme Speed
    - U-turn

    Minior @ Focus Sash
    Ability: Dazzling
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Stone Edge
    - Acrobatics
    - Earthquake

    Latios @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Psyshock
    - Defog
    - Trick

    Magearna @ Assault Vest
    Ability: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 HP / 100 Def / 156 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
    - Fleur Cannon
    - Flash Cannon
    - Focus Blast
    - Volt Switch

    Zygarde @ Life Orb
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Thousand Arrows
    - Extreme Speed
    - Outrage

  19. Heavyweapons Mann

    Heavyweapons Mann

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    Small problem with the team in that Stakeout is banned, so you're going to have to change the abilities for something else.
  20. crystalcash

    crystalcash

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    Yeah I was just giving the original team that got the ladder run before stakeout got banned, it obviously requires some tweaking on the spot before ladder use.
  21. Zephyr Dragon Lord

    Zephyr Dragon Lord

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    A little bit, yeah. There were hushed whispers about Dugtrio being banworthy, and now they're coming to light. I understand why it's happening, but I feel that it's more so the direction that Smogon has brought their Pokémon metagame more than anything else...
    As for OU, I'm neutral on banning it. Which means my AAA stance is that it can still be handled alright. It isn't exactly difficult to put hazards up and then punish the resulting defog with Defiant/Competitive...
  22. blergsid

    blergsid

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2015
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    About minior: anyone who sees it when it hatches or is not in battle knows, it shows up as its core form and not meteor form, similar to Aslash showing up as shield form in out of battle situation. I feel like this would lead to it showing up as a core form if it were without shields down as an ability in game, but if anyone with hacking skills wants to get a hacked minior and see what happens, it might be different than what I said, but who really knows.
  23. Aku Mau Ngetroll

    Aku Mau Ngetroll

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
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    but Unaware always exist in stall in AAA. they just switch in to them.
    the reason why i brought Dugtrio to be suspected / banned is, yes you can play around that if you're using OU as base, but this is AAA, not OU, so they can play around that too. so many options in AAA so they can keep Dugtrio "healthy".
  24. Gross Sweep

    Gross Sweep I should really put something creative here
    is an official Team Rater

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    Yes, Duggy is a great asset to stall - you can see stall teams struggling without it on the OU suspect ladder. However, it's also amazing on offensive teams, and that can't be ignored. Getting reqs during the suspect test I made my own version of Darksylvion's psychic spam team (used 3 of the same mons) but my version included dugtrio. The team has threats like psychic terrain zam and scarfed adaptability terrakion, but Dugtrio was still the teams MVP. The ability to trap bulky steels (besides skarm/cele) and pick off your opponents weakened mons is invaluable. I'm definitely in favor of at least considering giving duggy the axe, because it's one of those mons that fit on any play style and make any team it's on a lot better. Any mon that can very successfully fit on stall, balance, and offense needs to get looked at.

    I'm attaching a paste of the team just for a reference of Duggy offense since so many people are use to seeing it function on stall, although its role is very similar. (also I know the skarm set isn't the best it just kinda worked for the team)
    http://pastebin.com/ki9zS9T9

    Personally I'm not against letting duggy stick around, but I definitely see the hindrance it provides towards team building - definitely not an issue that can just be blown off.
  25. aesf

    aesf outskilled

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    Nov 9, 2013
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    I feel like something worth pointing out in AAA is that, for offense, there are a lot of extremely strong attackers that are lacking in OU (like Noivern, Hoopa-U, MegaZam, Latios, Victini, etc., etc.) that can only be checked by either extremely tanky, passive pokemon like Chansey, or steel types like Magearna. If offensive brings dugtrio + one of these breakers, it suddenly has an almost unloseable matchup against stall teams without Dugtrio (or Weavile).
    Also, because stall is much more bulky in AAA, it takes much stronger pokemon to break it, and the majority of these pokemon (like Terrakion, Victini, Latios, Hoopa-U, and even to an extent Weavile and Keldeo), can get trapped and KO'd by dugtrio, effectively making the rest of the team much easier to deal with. Also, with many more solid magic bouncers and walls, sending in dugtrio to kill things doesn't sacrifice as much pressure as it usually does.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyabilitysuspecttest-524015654 - Here, my only way of breaking walls is really tinted lens Keldeo in rain. Dugtrio traps and kills Keldeo, making the game much much more in his favor. In order to win, I had to win a bunch of 50/50s while also abusing illusion.

    http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyabilitysuspecttest-529065941 - I know I'm demonstrating this with a jynx, but it applies to really any strong special attacker; this replay shows how I was able to find the right opportunity to get Dugtrio in to trap Magearna and easily win with a psychic terrain pokemon once the special wall was gone.

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