AAA Almost Any Ability

actually, no they wouldn't. just so people will stop constantly asking why speed boost and a bunch of shit is still in the tier, im going to set a few things straight so hopefully you guys will understand my situation and stop complaining:

1) to quickban something, the entire council needs to agree its beyond saving without a sliver of a doubt, and should be removed immediately. simple enough right? well, sometimes not the entire council is HERE to listen. and sometimes people may disagree. if someone disagrees, well tough luck, it ain't being quickbanned.

2) due to a new rule, we can only have one OM suspect at a time. this new rule was placed so people can actually participate in the suspects. so yes. if speed boost cant be quickbanned, you are estimating around a month waiting time before we can suspect something. also majority wins, if 3 people out of the 5 disagree, then a suspect can occur, if 3 disagree, well you aint suspecting it.

3) there has to be a wait time before each of these quickbans+suspects. why? well the meta should adapt before we go on a banning spree. we cannot ban shit just because we don't feel like stopping them. the meta has to adjust so we can see if these new problems are a result of the mon, or the lack of proper teambuilding to accomodate for the new meta.

i know speed boost needs to go. i know that. but with these three rules, im stuck at a impasse that only time can solve. im sorry for being rude, but please bear with me here, im trying my best to get this solved.
I thank you for your work here...though I still have a few questions here.

1.) Do you think we could possibly have 1 suspect per week, and allow two of them to go at once? I think the big reason that everything's hectic around the OMs is that we don't have too much flexibility regarding time. It's okay if you can't implement this, just giving a suggestion that might ease the issue.

2.) What are the council's thoughts on the ability Triage? While I think that it does keep Speed Boost at bay (to a degree; Alolan-Maowak is resistant to pretty much all recovery), it's also a crazy ability in its own right. I personally think a suspect with Speed Boost would be nice, due to the previous point...

3.) By a wait time, do you mean each individual OM, or the OMs as a whole?

4.) The council might also want to take another look at Poison Heal down the road, if that hasn't happened already. It still creates some scary defensive things out of nowhere.

While there's quite a few broken things running around, AAA is not unplayable, like it would be were Water Bubble still allowed. We can afford to wait a while for everything to settle... And while we wait, we can further work out what needs to be suspected, and how good every ability is.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
I thank you for your work here...though I still have a few questions here.

1.) Do you think we could possibly have 1 suspect per week, and allow two of them to go at once? I think the big reason that everything's hectic around the OMs is that we don't have too much flexibility regarding time. It's okay if you can't implement this, just giving a suggestion that might ease the issue.

2.) What are the council's thoughts on the ability Triage? While I think that it does keep Speed Boost at bay (to a degree; Alolan-Maowak is resistant to pretty much all recovery), it's also a crazy ability in its own right. I personally think a suspect with Speed Boost would be nice, due to the previous point...

3.) By a wait time, do you mean each individual OM, or the OMs as a whole?

4.) The council might also want to take another look at Poison Heal down the road, if that hasn't happened already. It still creates some scary defensive things out of nowhere.

While there's quite a few broken things running around, AAA is not unplayable, like it would be were Water Bubble still allowed. We can afford to wait a while for everything to settle... And while we wait, we can further work out what needs to be suspected, and how good every ability is.
1) unfortunately no. as tegrof said, its OM's as a whole, so unfortunately while id like to hog up all the suspect time, im not able too :P(enless you mean OM suspects in a whole, as a similar method has been compromised so it wont be as bad.)

2) triage is personally not that big of an issue to me, most of the abusers arent really that notable, and most can be stopped by fluffy or unaware defensively, or bulky mons or dazzle/psychic terrain offensively, helps that theres only 3 common triage types (grass, fighting, and bug) and all three arent really "Great" typings. of course, if they prove to be a problem later on when most of the bigger issues are gone, we will definitely look into it!

4) yes, definitely. though i dont know if we will end up looking at the 3 "Worse" scenario-mons (zyggy, cune and lax) or maybe look at PH as a whole, it all depends on what the council, community, and me personally want. its not the biggest issue, but i can see problems arising in the future. (Especially since lax is still just as good as before!)

sorry for flipping out in my last post. its just been a bit frustrating being in a standstill, and having everyone treat me like i don't know what i'm doing lol. i even hinted to you guys that i was suspecting speed boost (a couple posts when i said you will have to wait and see for speed boost suspect i made some letters a bit lighter then the rest) though i guess it wasn't that obvious.
 
Speed Boost is now banned from Almost Any Ability.
Thank You Lcass and sorry if i was in a rush time these days, sometimes i forget you do your best for us. Will you forgive me?

On the other hand i'm glad it's finally out of the picture.

Just a post to say that i finally made a team that could grant me so winning with the core laddering challenge. It's tough due to Victini and Bisharp not having that great synergy together.

Hope i'll make those 1300.
 
Well, it looks like one of the major problems are out of the way. I understand the council as a whole is working hard to find stuff that's not ideal, and I wholly respect that.

Also, what I wasn't suggesting wasn't just for AAA. That would be a tad selfish. The week would be for all OMs that want suspects. Those that had them further away would have priority over OMs that just had suspects. If none of the other metas need a suspect, then the most recent OM could have a suspect. Sorry that it wasn't clear from the getgo.

As for Poison Heal... sure, we have Snorlax, Zygarde, and Suicune returning, but we also have Buzzwole and Tapu Fini, and together, they form the 5 main ones. (Maybe Buzzwole doesn't count, but that defense is kind of sky-high, and is pretty tough to break physically..) We also have a ton of others that can fill the role (Lati twins, Swampert, Necrozma, Uxie, etc), and also do a fine job at being stallers. I agree that it's under control at the moment, thanks to all the wallbreakers we have.

Victini and Bisharp are better as an offensive than a defensive core. There's not just one way to take it; but it is limiting for teambuilding... kind of the point of a challenge. And one that taught me how devastating Victini is.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
so, with speed boost gone, i guess this team is gunna lose some viability, but i guess its time to showcase some mons ive been using on it that has been putting in crazy work.
Magearna @ Fairium Z
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Fleur Cannon
- Trick Room
- Flash Cannon
- Volt Switch/explosion/idkineverusethisslot
this thing...just...wow...i put it on mostly for its defensive utility, but in all honesty, its been getting the most KO's out of my entire team. works great even as a standalone, simply trick room up, nuke something with twinkle tackle, then fleur cannon something else. this thing is NOT to be underestimated. helps that people immidiately go into their steels to tank this things hits...just to feel...this:
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Magearna Twinkle Tackle (195 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 248-294 (62.3 - 73.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 166-196 (41.7 - 49.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Marowak-Alola: 280-330 (86.4 - 101.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Tinted Lens Magearna Fleur Cannon vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 296-348 (79.5 - 93.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
honestly, a mon i expected to do one thing for my team, and i eventually realized just what its capable of doing even for a NON TR orientated team.anyways, heres one of the mons ive been using a LOT, that only gets buffed in TR:

Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
Ability: Stakeout
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Bonemerang
- Power-Up Punch

rule #1) you will not live this things attacks on switch in. nothing. fluffy gets demolished by fire coverage+shadow bones lack of contact, and a lot of walls just succumb to this things raw power...and even if it doesnt switch.

252+ Atk Thick Club Huge Power Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 288-339 (71.2 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal

252+ Atk Thick Club Huge Power Marowak-Alola Shadow Bone vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 249-294 (74.7 - 88.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Steakout Alolanroak sounds crazy as fuck, god i didn't face it while i was laddering... I guess people doesn't know.

Here comes a Flash Fire Staraptor XD Nah jokes aside, it looks pretty damn good.

By the way if i could receive some advice on that set:

Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hyperspace Hole
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

I put the four moves that for me offers the biggest coverage avialable, with hyperspace hole able to hit through Substitutes, maybe it needs changes i dunno. Also on the Evs too, the spread doesn't look that good for a mixed attacker, maybe i should tweak them, but dunno how much for each one...
 
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I haven't seen anyone mentioning this yet, so:



Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze / Calm Mind
- Defog / Protect
- Protect / Moonblast / Taunt

PH-Tapu Fini is really good. It checks a lot of things & has respectable mixed bulk. It's probably not much better than Suicune as a PH calm mind'er, but its nice as it packs hazard control in addition to a pretty nice typing defensively. I've been using it with volt absorb spdef Celesteela for a nice defensive core that handles most things.
 
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Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Steakout Alolanroak sounds crazy as fuck, god i didn't face it while i was laddering... I guess people doesn't know.

Here comes a Flash Fire Staraptor XD Nah jokes aside, it looks pretty damn good.

By the way if i could receive some advice on that set:

Hoopa-Unbound @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hyperspace Hole
- Ice Punch
- Drain Punch

I put the four moves that for me offers the biggest coverage avialable, with hyperspace hole able to hit through Substitutes, maybe it needs changes i dunno. Also on the Evs too, the spread doesn't look that good for a mixed attacker, maybe i should tweak them, but dunno how much for each one...
Though protean hoopa-u sounds pretty cool, but isn't like always tinted set better. Like tinted banded hyperspace fury destroys and basically 2hkoes everything, and specially since it doesn't make contact it easily 2hkoes fluffy skarm. Also tbh, you get better coverage by psychic/dark pulse/focus blast/ and maybe thunderbolt for mandibuzz. This lets you abuse STAB focus blast, which is incredibly strong, 2hkoing chansey as well as lax. Also you can run destiny bond to fuck with curselax while it sets up curses next turn, you can just hit it with STAB focus blast lol.
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 188 HP / 176+ SpD Snorlax: 491-580 (96.6 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO [Though unreliable, it's incredibly strong]
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 351-413 (54.6 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Hoopa-Unbound Thunderbolt vs. 240 HP / 216+ SpD Mandibuzz: 398-468 (94.5 - 111.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
I haven't seen anyone mentioning this yet, so:



Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze / Calm Mind
- Defog / Protect
- Protect / Moonblast

PH-Tapu Fini is really good. It checks a lot of things & has respectable mixed bulk. It's probably not much better than Suicune as a PH calm mind'er, but its nice as it packs hazard control in addition to a pretty nice typing defensively. I've been using it with volt absorb spdef Celesteela for a nice defensive core that handles most things.
Ye that set is hot, I have faced that set against some other players too, it's the reason I started running desolate land colbur victini ;). Though victini's real potential is actually coming out, now that it's in the spotlight lmao.
Another god damn double post for me, but this is pretty important.

Speed Boost is now banned from Almost Any Ability.

Im sorry for it taking so long.

The Immortal
I am going to have a drink to celebrate this :D
 
I haven't seen anyone mentioning this yet, so:



Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Haze / Calm Mind
- Defog / Protect
- Protect / Moonblast
You're missing on Taunt thought which is, for me, one of Tapu Fini's biggest selling points. Shutting down phasing mons, opposing set up, opposing taunt and unaware recovery and just offering great utility overall.
 

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
You're missing on Taunt thought which is, for me, one of Tapu Fini's biggest selling points. Shutting down phasing mons, opposing set up, opposing taunt and unaware recovery and just offering great utility overall.
Taunt is nice on fini, but haze + defog together do that same thing basically + they don't get fucked up by random magic bounce. Only thing taunt is superior in, is to shut down opposing recovery though, but at that point you better use some wall-breaker instead imo.
 
Taunt is nice on fini, but haze + defog together do that same thing basically + they don't get fucked up by random magic bounce. Only thing taunt is superior in, is to shut down opposing recovery though, but at that point you better use some wall-breaker instead imo.
I mean taunt on the set up set. Scald / CM / Tect / Taunt.
 
Stall is far too good in the metagame right now, and something needs to be done. So here's a really long post so that I look smart:
The current metagame is essentially composed of teams that are stall, teams that are centered around beating stall, and teams that get 6-0'd by stall. If you've faced any somewhat competent using a stall team, you'll know that these teams are basically impossible to break right now. This isn't just one of those typical "stall is too good pls nerf" complaints; unless you dedicate your team to stallbreaking or use stall yourself, you will lose to stall.

Fluffy: Let's first look at the structure of stall: nearly all stall teams have a chansey as a special wall, and due to chansey's ridiculous bulk, a stall builder only has to consider a small handful of special attackers that chansey does not wall, most of which can be covered within one pokemon, which gets even easier when you consider that chansey gets unaware in AAA and that regenvesters have almost no drawback. The rest of the stall team tends to be centered around physical walls and general utility pokemon, and this part is usually also the weaker part. More often than not, this section of the team will contain poison heal pokemon, magic bouncers, defoggers, phasers, and status users, which can be pretty difficult to fit into 4 pokemon. At the same time, these 4 pokemon also usually ensure that the other two special walls don't fall prey to hazards or status, strengthening the team on the special side as well. Needless to say, it's basically impossible to build a perfect stall team with that formula, and nearly impossible to even approximate perfection.
As for teams of other playstyles, they need to have some formula to beat stall, or else they usually end up losing pretty badly. Most of the time, due to the aforementioned strength of stall from the special side, these teams utilize physical attackers and gradually whittle the team down, because the team by then is nearly impossible to break from the special side.
Now meet fluffy - an ability that basically doubles defense from the physical side (except from certain attacks*). Fluffy turns some of the strongest pokemon in AAA, such as dragonite and lucario, into absolute jokes, as pokemon such as mandibuzz take absolutely nothing from boosted attacks. This results in one pokemon being able to take on a majority of the physical metagame, as there simply is not as much need for multiple layers of physical walls like before. If you need calcs for the sake of satisfaction, calc any physical attacker against any fluffy wall of your choice and you'll see how ridiculous this ability is.
Most of you can see where I'm going with this: fluffy is essentially another "chansey" for the physical side; rather than forcing multiple pokemon to patch up the physical side of stall, you can just slap on a very bulky fluffy physical wall, and account for its weaknesses within another pokemon. This leaves you two extra slots to do whatever you want, and this added versatility is another part of what makes stall so devastating. Before fluffy, stall had trouble making room for a magic bouncer or a dugtrio, but now, adding at least one of these is cost-free and only beneficial and can patch up any holes that the physical and special core left open.
And even on balance or bulky offense teams, fluffy is a pretty much no-drawback option that can completely swing the momentum. It nearly turns all offensive momentum upside down, as most physical attackers become near useless, and fluffy users, unlike chansey, typically carry phasing, switching moves, or attacks that can actually be threatening (like foul play or knock off). Meanwhile, these pokemon can give free switchins to their threats which can obliterate offense due to the presence of multiple other unbalanced abilities in the metagame.
If I'm not playing with stall, why should I add a hoopa or any wallbreaker if I know it's going to get trapped by weavile or dugtrio? Why should I run non-mold breaker rocks+spikes as a way to beat stall if I know that basically all stall can afford to run magic bounce now? Is it really a good idea to add Kartana or Lucario or any physical attacker that I feel like using if I know I'm going to lose all momentum against balance and stall teams with fluffy? Fluffy pushes stall way over the top, and it needs to see a ban if the metagame needs to become any healthier. Evidence of this includes the fact that 4 out of the top 5 ladder players use stall, and trying to prepare for and win against stall teams in the current metagame is near impossible.
*Some people have been arguing that there are ways around fluffy. Yes. There are ways around fluffy. Some viable ways around it from pure physical attackers are fire punch, v-create, sacred fire, stone edge, earthquake, seed bomb, and icicle crash. Yes, you can use these moves. But no, this doesn't change just how much fluffy compresses stall teambuilding. It's much, much, easier to cover the primary users of these moves (victini, weavile, entei, mamoswine, terrakion, garchomp, kyurem-b, hoopa) within a couple pokemon (for ex. dugtrio and tapu fini covers almost all) than covering all physical attackers within just 1 more pokemon, and the team with fluffy will almost always have much more useful utility pokemon than the team without. The end result is a stall that ends up being nigh unbreakable from the physical side, nigh unbreakable from the special side, and immune to any non-standard stallbreaker that can get out of hand. If you're saying fluffy isn't broken because intimidate basically does the same thing and wasn't broken, that's like saying 6th gen parental bond wasn't broken [on physical attackers] because huge power was stronger. If you're saying fluffy's not as broken as fur coat so we shouldn't ban it, well, I don't think rayquaza would be as broken as mega rayquaza in OU, but that doesn't mean we should free rayquaza. Whatever the case, fluffy makes stall (and even balance) too strong and eliminates far too much of the metagame, and it needs to be banned.
tl;dr fluffy's broken just read it lol it doesnt take that long if u sincerely care about competitive almost any ability

some other needed future suspects: Poison Heal, Protean, Hoopa-U, Stakeout/Illusion, Dragonite, Kyurem-B - someone else can write these up

Poison Heal: similar to "the fluffy effect", but made even worse given the emergence of 1k arrows zygarde, and it's still good on everything else. Draw-free, extremely potent, and breaks a ton of pokemon, esp. Suicune/Snorlax/Zygarde
Protean: too much power.
Hoopa-U: see above
Stakeout/Illusion: Don't see this suspect happening soon, but give it time and it will need to happen. The ability to just get rid of counters for free and/or force your opponent to sac counters to other pokemon is too good.
Dragonite: espeed game too strong, versatility game too strong, too much power
Kyurem-B: too much power
 
I've been using this lately.

Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Focus Blast
- Extrasensory
- Fire Blast


Modest nature ensures that Beast Boost increases Special Attack. The main purpose of this set is abusing Scarf Eruptions. If you KO something with it, and get a Beast Boost, it will get really scary. The other moves are for coverage and Fire Blast in case you take some damage and still want to try sweeping late game.
 
I've been using this lately.

Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Focus Blast
- Extrasensory
- Fire Blast


Modest nature ensures that Beast Boost increases Special Attack. The main purpose of this set is abusing Scarf Eruptions. If you KO something with it, and get a Beast Boost, it will get really scary. The other moves are for coverage and Fire Blast in case you take some damage and still want to try sweeping late game.
You can just run soul heart and timid tho
 

Laxpras

One small yeet for man, one giant yeet for mankind
Stall is far too good in the metagame right now, and something needs to be done. So here's a really long post so that I look smart:
The current metagame is essentially composed of teams that are stall, teams that are centered around beating stall, and teams that get 6-0'd by stall. If you've faced any somewhat competent using a stall team, you'll know that these teams are basically impossible to break right now. This isn't just one of those typical "stall is too good pls nerf" complaints; unless you dedicate your team to stallbreaking or use stall yourself, you will lose to stall.

Fluffy: Let's first look at the structure of stall: nearly all stall teams have a chansey as a special wall, and due to chansey's ridiculous bulk, a stall builder only has to consider a small handful of special attackers that chansey does not wall, most of which can be covered within one pokemon, which gets even easier when you consider that chansey gets unaware in AAA and that regenvesters have almost no drawback. The rest of the stall team tends to be centered around physical walls and general utility pokemon, and this part is usually also the weaker part. More often than not, this section of the team will contain poison heal pokemon, magic bouncers, defoggers, phasers, and status users, which can be pretty difficult to fit into 4 pokemon. At the same time, these 4 pokemon also usually ensure that the other two special walls don't fall prey to hazards or status, strengthening the team on the special side as well. Needless to say, it's basically impossible to build a perfect stall team with that formula, and nearly impossible to even approximate perfection.
As for teams of other playstyles, they need to have some formula to beat stall, or else they usually end up losing pretty badly. Most of the time, due to the aforementioned strength of stall from the special side, these teams utilize physical attackers and gradually whittle the team down, because the team by then is nearly impossible to break from the special side.
Now meet fluffy - an ability that basically doubles defense from the physical side (except from certain attacks*). Fluffy turns some of the strongest pokemon in AAA, such as dragonite and lucario, into absolute jokes, as pokemon such as mandibuzz take absolutely nothing from boosted attacks. This results in one pokemon being able to take on a majority of the physical metagame, as there simply is not as much need for multiple layers of physical walls like before. If you need calcs for the sake of satisfaction, calc any physical attacker against any fluffy wall of your choice and you'll see how ridiculous this ability is.
Most of you can see where I'm going with this: fluffy is essentially another "chansey" for the physical side; rather than forcing multiple pokemon to patch up the physical side of stall, you can just slap on a very bulky fluffy physical wall, and account for its weaknesses within another pokemon. This leaves you two extra slots to do whatever you want, and this added versatility is another part of what makes stall so devastating. Before fluffy, stall had trouble making room for a magic bouncer or a dugtrio, but now, adding at least one of these is cost-free and only beneficial and can patch up any holes that the physical and special core left open.
And even on balance or bulky offense teams, fluffy is a pretty much no-drawback option that can completely swing the momentum. It nearly turns all offensive momentum upside down, as most physical attackers become near useless, and fluffy users, unlike chansey, typically carry phasing, switching moves, or attacks that can actually be threatening (like foul play or knock off). Meanwhile, these pokemon can give free switchins to their threats which can obliterate offense due to the presence of multiple other unbalanced abilities in the metagame.
If I'm not playing with stall, why should I add a hoopa or any wallbreaker if I know it's going to get trapped by weavile or dugtrio? Why should I run non-mold breaker rocks+spikes as a way to beat stall if I know that basically all stall can afford to run magic bounce now? Is it really a good idea to add Kartana or Lucario or any physical attacker that I feel like using if I know I'm going to lose all momentum against balance and stall teams with fluffy? Fluffy pushes stall way over the top, and it needs to see a ban if the metagame needs to become any healthier. Evidence of this includes the fact that 4 out of the top 5 ladder players use stall, and trying to prepare for and win against stall teams in the current metagame is near impossible.
*Some people have been arguing that there are ways around fluffy. Yes. There are ways around fluffy. Some viable ways around it from pure physical attackers are fire punch, v-create, sacred fire, stone edge, earthquake, seed bomb, and icicle crash. Yes, you can use these moves. But no, this doesn't change just how much fluffy compresses stall teambuilding. It's much, much, easier to cover the primary users of these moves (victini, weavile, entei, mamoswine, terrakion, garchomp, kyurem-b, hoopa) within a couple pokemon (for ex. dugtrio and tapu fini covers almost all) than covering all physical attackers within just 1 more pokemon, and the team with fluffy will almost always have much more useful utility pokemon than the team without. The end result is a stall that ends up being nigh unbreakable from the physical side, nigh unbreakable from the special side, and immune to any non-standard stallbreaker that can get out of hand. If you're saying fluffy isn't broken because intimidate basically does the same thing and wasn't broken, that's like saying 6th gen parental bond wasn't broken [on physical attackers] because huge power was stronger. If you're saying fluffy's not as broken as fur coat so we shouldn't ban it, well, I don't think rayquaza would be as broken as mega rayquaza in OU, but that doesn't mean we should free rayquaza. Whatever the case, fluffy makes stall (and even balance) too strong and eliminates far too much of the metagame, and it needs to be banned.
tl;dr fluffy's broken just read it lol it doesnt take that long if u sincerely care about competitive almost any ability

some other needed future suspects: Poison Heal, Protean, Hoopa-U, Stakeout/Illusion, Dragonite, Kyurem-B - someone else can write these up

Poison Heal: similar to "the fluffy effect", but made even worse given the emergence of 1k arrows zygarde, and it's still good on everything else. Draw-free, extremely potent, and breaks a ton of pokemon, esp. Suicune/Snorlax/Zygarde
Protean: too much power.
Hoopa-U: see above
Stakeout/Illusion: Don't see this suspect happening soon, but give it time and it will need to happen. The ability to just get rid of counters for free and/or force your opponent to sac counters to other pokemon is too good.
Dragonite: espeed game too strong, versatility game too strong, too much power
Kyurem-B: too much power
As the council knows, I really second this and think Fluffy is absolutely broken and the only reason stall can occasionally lose rn is because of other broken things like Hoopa. While the comparison to Chansey is a good one, I honestly think it understates the power of Fluffy. Yes, Fluffy can be broken through with several different moves, namely Earthquake, Stone Edge, and strong Fire type moves, along with a few moves that are limited to one or two threats in the metagame. Like aesf said, however, Fluffy walls so much of the meta in one slot that these ways to break through Fluffy are easily countered by teammates. Additionally, having a Fire move isn't some automatic breeze through Fluffy.

For an example, lets look at Aerilate Dragonite, who has been running Fire Punch as a way to deal with Fluffy mons. First, how much does Return do to Gliscor? (I'm going to use FC because Fluffy was not affecting damage at all in the showdown calc)
252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gliscor: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ok so that does absolutely nothing, now let's say you make a good play and pick Fire Punch for the Gliscor switchin (I made Gliscor Grass type to account for the x2 damage):
252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gliscor: 86-102 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
(Replay proof that this is how it works, the opp did not use Choice Band as I asked but you can see that it does nothing: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-506907013)
So congrats! You picked a Fire move to beat Fluffy and you did less damage than your actual STAB. Let's stop pretending that Fire moves just beat Fluffy users

Ok so back to the comparison with Chansey, Fluffy is even stronger. Let's take comparable moves: a Jirachi Flash Cannon against Chansey vs a Jirachi Iron Head against Fluffy:
0 SpA Jirachi Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 45-54 (7 - 8.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 25-31 (5.9 - 7.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever


So let's take that insane bulk and put it to practical use: A boosted Tough Claws Kartana (181atk +2 with Tough Claws!!!)
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 109-130 (26 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
lol nothing

Go play around in the calc for yourself, it's ridiculous. I think the only reason everyone hasn't been actively crying about Fluffy is because people like Klang are gone so stall hasn't been super prevalent. But when you do hit stall, against someone like motherlove using Fluffy.... I send my condolences. And we haven't even talked about set up Fluffy mons like Volcarona... Let's get the suspect going.
 
You know what? Fluffy is pretty disgusting. I just need to show you this from something with legendary power...

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 226-267 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is a Stakeout Kyruem-Black Outrage. Even it doesn't get the 2HKO without Stealth Rocks. That is absolutely disgusting. (Fusion Bolt can do the job, however...)

Also, can I just say that Kyurem-Black itself is disgusting? CB Stakeout Kyurem beats Skarmory. WITH OUTRAGE.

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 224-264 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Some more disgusting calculations from that set...

+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 574-676 (166.8 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 389-458 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 376-443 (133.8 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Just in case you thought resists saved you...)
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 516-607 (127.7 - 150.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 385-453 (97.9 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 507-597 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Also, some quick Life Orb Refrigerate calcs...

252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 199-234 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 113-134 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 87.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 278-329 (70.5 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 113-134 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 95.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 250-296 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Needless to say, we should also have a Kyruem-Black suspect. I question why we allow this monster to roam free.. (Also Stakeout, but that'll be addressed in a separate post)
 
Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Power Whip
- Rest
- Toxic

It can stop everything except STAKEOUT dragon/ice

It can too

Hoopa-Unbound @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dark Pulse

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. +2 208 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
only moldbreak hurts
 
Last edited:

Sylveon.

Penny saved is still a fucking penny
Goodra @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Careful Nature
- Dragon Tail
- Power Whip
- Rest
- Toxic

It can stop everything except STAKEOUT dragon/ice

It can too

Hoopa-Unbound @ Leftovers
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Sleep Talk
- Dark Pulse

252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. +2 208 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
only moldbreak hurts
Why would you run Fluffy Hoopa, it's basically a waste of mon, and also
252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 208 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Hoopa-Unbound: 192-228 (54.3 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This shouldn't be happening to a Fluffy wall imo, as these are kind of breakers Fluffy is supposed to stop.

Anyways, coming to the point I whole heartedly agree with most of the points everyone said above, Fluffy is just too strong an ability on stall and imo, it hasn't been used on sweepers on balanced team well till now. Also proper damage on non-contact move is just not good enough reason as most of the high power moves which have good distribution among viable mons are contact moves eg close combat, brave bird etc. I am not going to drag along on this since most of the guys have already made cool points, but stall is tough to handle right now, as you have just too much to check on your attackers - Fluffy,Poison Heal, Unaware, Stamina etc and only mon which beats stall right now i.e. Hoopa-U just gets trapped, thus making the game extremely match-up based and more importantly if you aren't running anything you just lose at the preview.
 

aVocado

@ Everstone
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Snorlax used Facade!
The opposing Lopunny lost 49% of its health!
[Opposing Lopunny's Cute Charm!]
Snorlax fell in love!

The opposing Lopunny fainted!
Robert Alfons: ..

Slithermist sent out Incenorator (Incineroar)!
Pointed stones dug into the opposing Incenorator!
Turn 8
★Arikado: !dt cute charm
★Arikado: Slithermist
Robert Alfons: loool
★Arikado: are you aware you're playing the metagame called Any Other ability
★Arikado: meaning any pokemon can use any ability u want
Turn 9
★Slithermist: Screw you
★Arikado: .-.
★Slithermist: F*** off


is this a regular sighting in OMs ladder.. smh..
 

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