You could use Trick to cripple Chansey.
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Almost Any Ability XY (Suspect Over: Weavile banned, Keldeo Stays)
- Thread starter Monte Cristo
- Start date
- Status
Why psychic
OLD GREGG (im back baby)
old gregg for life
Basically, a filler move.
With the ability it gets STAB on everything.
It is stronger than any HP since the HP nerf. You could also use HP Ice, HP Fighting, HP Rock, Trick, Dark Pulse, or something like that.
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Speaking of keldeo counters jellicent is much better than doublade
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- 32.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 120-143 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 136-162 (33.6 - 40%) -- 32.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Keldeo Hidden Power Ghost vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 120-143 (29.7 - 35.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
the problem is you have to use Jellicent - I mean the drizzle scarf spout set can be cool and so can defensive unaware or magic bounce, but overall meh
It was OU last gen
Jellicent is actually pretty capable with Prankster, it is more or less an Sableye with better bulk that can wall Keldeo, really underrated.
EV
Banned deucer.
Still has Taunt, Recover, and Will-o-Wisp, plus a manageable Special Attack. I can see it but it takes on more weaknesses.
Poison heal may be good, but with all offensive mons running adaptability, LO + sheer force or proteen, hurting something with more than 70% is actualy not so hard. And poison heal users lack unaware and vice versa.
Talking about keldeo counters, i ran phisicly defensive zapdos on one of my teams and it does really well.
In the viability rankings i also talked about a PH snorlax and regenerator doublade, if you're interested i got a few replays of the last tourney where they did pretty good
Also, sheer force LO gengar is a monster with sticky web support
quick mention of magic guard wich is pretty underated in this meta, a staraptor for example can ignore rocks and brave bird/double edge + LO recoil with magic guard
Why does nobody run protean dragonite anymore, i use to see it everywhere
Talking about keldeo counters, i ran phisicly defensive zapdos on one of my teams and it does really well.
Electric jesus (Zapdos) @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Roost
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
water absorb is also an option
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 111-131 (28.9 - 34.1%)
On top of dealing with keldeo beautyfully, it can also check other common pokemon like crocune or staraptor.
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
- Roost
- Defog
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
water absorb is also an option
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 111-131 (28.9 - 34.1%)
On top of dealing with keldeo beautyfully, it can also check other common pokemon like crocune or staraptor.
In the viability rankings i also talked about a PH snorlax and regenerator doublade, if you're interested i got a few replays of the last tourney where they did pretty good
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153072329 snorlax takes 2 +3 dragon pulse
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153068620 doublade takes a fiery dance
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153074599
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153034662 not the tourney but you can really see snorlax's bulk and offensive presence here
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-146924638 same
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153068620 doublade takes a fiery dance
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153074599
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-153034662 not the tourney but you can really see snorlax's bulk and offensive presence here
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-146924638 same
quick mention of magic guard wich is pretty underated in this meta, a staraptor for example can ignore rocks and brave bird/double edge + LO recoil with magic guard
Why does nobody run protean dragonite anymore, i use to see it everywhere
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I really don't think weavile deserved the banhammer in this tier. When aeriate was still in the meta weavile was strong because it could check dragonite and noivern, but ever since then its niche has been taken away and it's honestly rather underwhelming. At the moment I would not even rate weavile as a S tier pokemon, much less a necessary ban.
Keldeo on the other hand is a complete S tier pokemon who needs to be specifically prepared for on every team. He deserves his suspect status for sure. There are a decent number of solid counters to the pony but you do have to make sure to carry one, or that specs adaptability hydro pump will tear through your team. Our little pony can use a variety of differing but similar sets such as: adaptability specs, magnet pull specs, LO sheer force, and CM magic bounce. The flipside of this is that the keldeo has a bad movepool and his counters do counter each set. As a bonus the counters overlap with the suicune counters very nicely.
Some calcs for refrence:
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%)
Keldeo on the other hand is a complete S tier pokemon who needs to be specifically prepared for on every team. He deserves his suspect status for sure. There are a decent number of solid counters to the pony but you do have to make sure to carry one, or that specs adaptability hydro pump will tear through your team. Our little pony can use a variety of differing but similar sets such as: adaptability specs, magnet pull specs, LO sheer force, and CM magic bounce. The flipside of this is that the keldeo has a bad movepool and his counters do counter each set. As a bonus the counters overlap with the suicune counters very nicely.
As for jellicent, I am a fan of its PH set. It does shut down keldeo and suicune, while still being annoying enough with burns and taunt to contribute to the team. It is a solid bulky water that never gets used.
Some calcs for refrence:
+6 4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%)
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent: 124-147 (30.6 - 36.3%)
SF gengar is always a monster. That poke can be scary as hell.
Dragonite overall disappeared completely after the aeriate ban. Protean is probably its best set now but even then its not used all that often. At least people realized that protean zygarde just sucks in comparison.
EV
Banned deucer.
Suspect period is over. We should move on and discuss the metagame in the absence of Weavile now.
protean zygarde is a much much better pokemon imo... it can avoid toxic damage with coil to set up on stall and has no trouble setting up on most physical attackers... now dragon dance protean zygarde i will agree sucks....
hustle + es (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
That's actually a really good idea unfixable, would have never thought of that :)
Maybe aura sphere could be a choice over dazzling gleam to hit steel types and rock types harder.
Maybe aura sphere could be a choice over dazzling gleam to hit steel types and rock types harder.
Monte Cristo
Banned deucer.
Showdown's programming staff have not implemented the change yet
Its funny that you post this. Lcass asked me just a few days ago if I thought a NP gale wings togekiss would be a good set. We theorymonned about it for a bit, but I dont know if he ever got around to testing it. I am glad to see it actually works in practice.hustle + es (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
Everybody always discusses physical Gale Wings abusers, I mean, who wouldn't with all the Brave Bird flying(hue) about? Well, I present a special Gale Wings abuser. This set is so good, +2 Togekiss is very strong and with priority, not much cares to take this on. I'll first explain the EVs. 252 SpA is obviously for maximum power, while 164 Speed EVs enables Togekiss to outspeed uninvested base 100s like Mew before they can hit Togekiss with a Taunt. The rest is dumped into HP for bulk, with 4 being diverted into Defense to make sure Stealth Rock damage is taken to a minimum. I've considered running different moves over Dazzling Gleam, but it hits everything quite hard enough already, even Skarmory is 2HKOed at +2. Roost also gets priority and keeps Togekiss alive throughout the match if it is forced out. Togekiss is a very cool Pokemon, with a great typing, great movepool, and amazing versatility and definitely deserves to be seen more. It's also a solid Keldeo check!
The thing is, using Gale Wings requires you to forfeit the 60% flinch hax that we all loved/hated, and since both Air Slash and Dazzling Gleam have rather low base power, Togekiss is hard pressed to sweep even with a boost. Skarm might be 2HKOed at +2, but if you don't get the flinch (which is not in your favor this time) then you'll be whirlwinded out. And since this set is easily revenge killed by Staraptor that's running the tiniest bit of speed investment further reduces Togekiss's ability to sweep.Everybody always discusses physical Gale Wings abusers, I mean, who wouldn't with all the Brave Bird flying(hue) about? Well, I present a special Gale Wings abuser. This set is so good, +2 Togekiss is very strong and with priority, not much cares to take this on. I'll first explain the EVs. 252 SpA is obviously for maximum power, while 164 Speed EVs enables Togekiss to outspeed uninvested base 100s like Mew before they can hit Togekiss with a Taunt. The rest is dumped into HP for bulk, with 4 being diverted into Defense to make sure Stealth Rock damage is taken to a minimum. I've considered running different moves over Dazzling Gleam, but it hits everything quite hard enough already, even Skarmory is 2HKOed at +2. Roost also gets priority and keeps Togekiss alive throughout the match if it is forced out. Togekiss is a very cool Pokemon, with a great typing, great movepool, and amazing versatility and definitely deserves to be seen more. It's also a solid Keldeo check!
hustle + es (Togekiss) @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Dazzling Gleam
- Roost
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Brave Bird vs. 88 HP / 4 Def Togekiss: 316-373 (94.8 - 112%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Not a clean OHKO but still pretty high.
It's lack of raw power and decreased flinch rate also impairs its ability to break through stall teams that are quite prevalent in AAA.
All in all, it can definitely put in some work against unprepared teams, but a properly prepared team can put a stop to it quite easily.
Running flamethrower over dazzling gleam would solve the problem of steel types, maybe aura sphere over roost to deal with heatran.
Also, nearly every sweeper in the meta is Rk by staraptor. Bar stuff like refrigirate lucario.
The major problem with this is set is unaware mons imo as without a nasty plot, damage will be lacking. But i see this as being an overall good pokemon.
"Gale Wings requires you to forfeit the 60% flinch hax" Are you really complaining about that ? :)
I am not complaining about the (hopefully) less hax that set brings, I'm just saying that Serene Grace was what made Togekiss so good with Air Slash, and IMO a special Gale Wings user might be better off spamming Hurricanes in the rain. So something like this
Tornadus (M) @ Life Orb/Choice Specs
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 16 HP / 252 SpA / 240 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Taunt/Tailwind/U-turn
Although this set requires Drizzle support, since this is AAA we're talking about that's not too hard to provide. Gale Wings Hurricanes off of a base 111 speed stat means that Staraptor can't revenge kill it unless it's running max speed or something. Since it gets priority, speed isn't as necessary so running a Modest nature allows it to hit harder. The EVs allow it to outrun fully invested base 95s, and the leftover EVs are placed in HP for a bit of extra bulk. Hurricane is of course the main STAB move of the set, and hits anything that doesn't resist it pretty hard. Focus Blast helps cover those pesky Rock and Steel types, and Grass Knot is useful for hitting Suicune. The last move is mostly utility, if running a Life Orb, Taunt could be useful to stop walls from recovering, or Tailwind could be used if Tornadus can't reliably finish off something and whatever you have in reserve needs that double speed to revenge kill something. U-turn is useful for offensive momentum, and it's probably better off if you're running a Choice Specs since with a Life Orb you might end up doing more damage to yourself than to the opponent.
After losing several times against both Calm Mind and Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo and dismissing Doublade's utility because it compounded weaknesses with traditional counters, I thought of using Water Absorb with a bulky Fairy-type to counter threats such as Keldeo, Suicune, and a few other dangerous threats.
Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
As it turns out, Aromatisse does have some use besides walling Pokemon with Water-type coverage, as it can actually counter threats such as Adaptability Heracross. Alternatively, you may use Water Absorb Clefable; it's a little less bulky, but boasts more speed and Softboiled.
Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
As it turns out, Aromatisse does have some use besides walling Pokemon with Water-type coverage, as it can actually counter threats such as Adaptability Heracross. Alternatively, you may use Water Absorb Clefable; it's a little less bulky, but boasts more speed and Softboiled.
OLD GREGG (im back baby)
old gregg for life
Speaking of Staraptor, I came up with this set as a result of needing a good spinner. As an added bonus I have found that it handles most bird spam fairly well.
Avalugg @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roar
- Avalanche
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
I'd even go as far as saying this is one of the best physical walls in AAA, despite the bad typing.
Avalugg @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Roar
- Avalanche
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
I'd even go as far as saying this is one of the best physical walls in AAA, despite the bad typing.
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After doing a few calcs, I found out that Sylveon is A LOT better as it barely has any less physical bulk and boasts a lot more special bulk. You could also use Calm Mind instead of Heal Bell on Sylveon as it can turn mons such as Suicune and Keldeo into setup-bait.After losing several times against both Calm Mind and Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo and dismissing Doublade's utility because it compounded weaknesses with traditional counters, I thought of using Water Absorb with a bulky Fairy-type to counter threats such as Keldeo, Suicune, and a few other dangerous threats.
Aromatisse @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: null Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Aromatherapy
As it turns out, Aromatisse does have some use besides walling Pokemon with Water-type coverage, as it can actually counter threats such as Adaptability Heracross. Alternatively, you may use Water Absorb Clefable; it's a little less bulky, but boasts more speed and Softboiled.
I don't know if this set was posted before, but I use a weird EV spread and stuff to differentiate it from other Doublades:
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Gyro Ball / Iron head
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Claw
Regenerator Doublade is really hard to kill, and serves as a good bird-spam counter. Sacred Sword grants great coverage and also allows it to check Poison Heal Snorlax quite well. Gyro Ball and Iron Head are useful STAB moves as it allows Doublade to 2HKO Diancie and other threats. Shadow Claw is a reliable STAB move with high PP. Toxic allows it to cripple Pokemon without Magic Guard, Poison Heal, or Magic Bounce. The EV spread grants an enormous increase to Doublade's special bulk while giving it just enough def to make a difference:
+2 252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 135-160 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 93-111 (28.8 - 34.4%) -- 4.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 184-218 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 180-214 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Eviolite Doublade: 93-111 (28.8 - 34.4%) -- 4.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 184-218 (57.1 - 67.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mold Breaker Rampardos Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Eviolite Doublade: 180-214 (55.9 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
If you want to wall physical attackers a lot better, you may opt to use a spread of 252 HP / 232 Def / 24 SpD as it really helps Doublade stomach some of the metagame's more powerful attackers, such as Terrakion and Rampardos; however, without decent SpD investment, Doublade will struggle against dangerous special attacking threats.
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