Almost Any Ability ORAS Viability Rankings

[Klang]

approved by Arcticblast

art by Andrew

AAA Viability Rankings

Due to Monte Cristo's retirement from Smogon, this thread will replace the old one.​

Welcome to the official AAA Viability Rankings topic. You should know the drill by now; In this thread, we as a community will rank every single usable Pokemon into "tiers." In this thread, you're encouraged to post your thoughts and opinions on the various Pokemon that are usable in AAA and what tier they should fall under. It's about time the OM subforum joined in on the action, and AAA's the perfect way to do it!

The general idea of the topic is to rank each AAA pokemon under "rankings" that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

• EX: Bisharp can be ranked in S tier as an offensive threat, Mew can be ranked under S as supportive threat and Skarmory can be can also be ranked in A tier as a defensive threat. These are just examples.

Note that the overall tier list is in no particular order.

Below are the definitions of each rank, and they should be read be anyone that wants to participate in the discussion of Pokemon's ranks in AAA:

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the AAA metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to abuse a variety of abilities effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the AAA metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the AAA metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the AAA metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the AAA metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

AAA XY Ranking Tier List
Common abilities added by Pagoose 09/12/2014

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

• Top S Rank

Skarmory - Gale Wings, Flash Fire, Intimidate, Unaware.

• Mid S Rank

Zapdos - Delta Stream, Magic Guard, Poison Heal, Intimidate, Magic Bounce.

A Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the AAA metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be overlooked when compared to their positive traits.

• High A Rank

Deoxys-S - Mold Breaker, Download.

Braviary - Gale Wings, Poison Heal.

Staraptor - Gale Wings.

Victini - Drought / Desolate Land, Tough Claws, Tinted Lens, No Guard.

Heatran - Drought / Desolate Land, Chlorophyll, Levitate, Regenerator, Magnet Pull.

Entei - Refridgerate, Tinted Lens, Serene Grace.

Lucario - Tough Claws, Pixilate, Refridgerate, Scrappy, Mega Launcher.

Snorlax - Poison Heal

Thundurus - Refridgerate

Latios - Adaptability, Tinted Lens

Aegislash - Stance Change

Gengar - Sheer Force

Mew - Prankster, Poison Heal, No Guard, Tinted Lens, Sheer Force (Lots more, Mew can run almost anything given its expansive movepool)

• Mid A Rank

Chansey - Magic Bounce, Regenerator.

Genesect - Sheer Force, No Guard, Tinted Lens, Tough Claws, Regenerator.

Blaziken - Speed Boost / Drought / Illusion -> Speed Boost.

Heracross - Tough Claws.

Mandibuzz - Poison Heal, Delta Stream, Prankster,

Gyarados-Mega - Volt Absorb / Illusion / Magic Bounce -> Mold Breaker.

Honchkrow - Gale Wings.

Deoxys-D - Mold Breaker, Poison Heal

• Low A Rank

Manaphy - Motor Drive, Poison Heal, Prankster.

Kyurem - Sheer Force, Adaptability.

Goodra - Regenerator.

Suicune - Poison Heal, Unaware, Regenerator.

Cresselia - Unaware, Poison Heal, Regenerator, Magic Bounce.

Landorus-I - Sheer Force, Refridgerate.

Vaporeon - Poison Heal

Swampert / Swampert-Mega - Drizzle -> Swift Swim, Poison Heal

B Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are great in the AAA metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

• High B Rank

Shuckle - Mold Breaker, Prankster, Magic Bounce.

Haxorus - Tough Claws, Tinted Lens.

Volcarona - Magic Guard.

Latias - Adaptability, Tinted Lens.

Tyranitar - Tough Claws, Unburden.

Doublade - Regenerator, Natural Cure.

Celebi - Unaware, Poison Heal.

Zygarde - Refridgerate

Pinsir-Mega - Illusion / Download -> Aerilate

Diancie - Regenerator

Manectric-Mega - Illusion / Intimidate -> Intimidate

Rhyperior - Poison Heal

Shaymin-S - Serene Grace

• Mid B Rank

Rotom-W - Regenerator, No Guard, Drizzle / Primordial Sea.

Raikou - Poison Heal, Regenerator.

Tornadus-T - Gale Wings, Drizzle / Primodial Sea, No Guard.

Sylveon - Poison Heal.

Hippowdon - Intimidate, Unaware, Poison Heal, Magic Bounce.

Scizor - Technican, Regenerator, Flash Fire -> Technician.

Dragonite - Tough Claws.

Breloom - Prankster.

Azelf - Mold Breaker, Tough Claws, Sheer Force.

Greninja - Protean

Regirock - Regenerator, Poison Heal

• Low B Rank

Conkeldurr - Tough Claws, Poison Heal.

Togekiss - Gale Wings.

Tornadus - Gale Wings, No Guard, Drizzle / Primodial Sea.

Ferrothorn - Flash Fire, Prankster, Drizzle / Primordial Sea.

Sneasel - Refridgerate.

Hydreigon - Mega Launcher, Sniper.

Jellicent - Prankster

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the AAA metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

• High C Rank

Gothitelle - Shadow Tag.

Ditto - Imposter.

Smeargle - Mold Breaker.

Garchomp (Mega) - Sand Stream -> Sand Force.

Marowak - Technician.

• Mid C Rank

Houndoom (Mega) - Drought, Desolate Land -> Solar Power.

Heliolisk - Lightning Rod.

Thundurus-T - Sheer Force

• Low C Rank

Talonflame - Gale Wings, Magic Guard.

Florges - Prankster, Regenerator, Adaptability

D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the AAA metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are either usable but have no real niche, or are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it.

Avalugg

Dusclops

Rules

• Post intelligently. Posts like "I think pokemon X should be in this tier" will not be tolerated
• No flaming
• Usage statistics may be used to support an argument or a claim, but don't base your ENTIRE argument around them. For example, you can't just say "Pokemon X shouldn't be this tier because they aren't used that often!"
• manu 11 is amazing. This is an undisputed fact.

Happy posting ♪♪

 

[Klang]

Reserved.

You may now post.

 

[Spoonal]

Snorlax for High B Rank:

Snorlax is a great pokemon that can abuse PH + Facade, and can sponge quite a few special attacks, while dealing back impressive damage. You can either run CurseLax with facade, or go with straight offense. Ghost types wall CurseLax, and an offensive set can't deal with many physical attacks from common pokemon such as Keldeo and Bisharp, dropping to B.

Azelf for Low/Mid A Rank:

Due to good mixed offenses and a great speed tier, this pokemon makes for a great LO protean pokemon. It has a decent movepool, and can patch up any coverage your team needs. However, it's defenses limit it's oppurtunity to come in, resorting to either volt switch, sacking, or prediction most of the time, and has a weakness to priority.

Jellicent for Mid B Rank:

With prankster, Jellicent is basically a Sableye with a lot more bulk, but a few more weaknesses. It has access to Taunt, Recover, WoW, and a decent move in Hex or Scald. It can usually take atleast one or two SE hits, and recover off the damage. However, it is completely walled by most magic bouncers (Hex/Scald does pitiful damage against Zapdos, Chansey, or Cresselia) and has the problem of the possible WoW miss. Overall, it can counter Keldeo fairly well, and should have some use in the metagame.

 

[Transcendent God Champion]

I am personally not really a fan of viability ranking lists myself due to their ultimately subjective nature and the way they tend to promote a lot of principles which simplify a lot of people's understanding of the metagame in question, when there are always exceptions to those principles since any Pokémon metagame is, in my opinion, far too complex for there to be any kind of coherence to a "viability list". But I'll contribute the following piece of thought anyway:

Having considered the choice between Staraptor, Braviary and Honchkrow for the role of a Gale Wings Pokémon extensively in teambuilding, I personally believe that Staraptor is generally the worst of them all, due to its possession of merely an 85 base HP stat compared to the other two birds, which both have 100 base HP, which is extremely important considering the fact that by far the most commonly used move of a Gale Wings Pokémon is a recoil move. And while Staraptor has access to Close Combat instead of the generally-inferior Superpower, let's face it, just how often does a Gale Wings Pokémon utilize any move other than Brave Bird anyway? Even when they do use their Fighting-type move, far more often than not from my experience, they're only using it to KO a Rock or Steel-type Pokémon, most likely on the switch, before switching out immediately on the next turn, rendering Superpower's Attack drop irrelevant anyway.

Aside from the aforementioned, Braviary and Honchkrow both possess additional advantages over Staraptor as a Gale Wings Pokémon. In Braviary's case, its far superior bulk gives it a much easier time tanking Extreme Speeds, since the users of this move very commonly come into Gale Wings Pokémon in order to revenge-kill them from my experience, and this is especially important when you combine it with the fact that a Gale Wings Pokémon will be taking damage from Brave Bird recoil and possibly Stealth Rock. And in Honchkrow's case, while it is actually more frail than Staraptor overall, it has one extremely important advantage in my opinion: its resistance to Sucker Punch, as I believe that almost all offensive teams in Almost Any Ability should have at least one Pokémon with a resistance to Dark-type moves, since Bisharp is incredibly dangerous in this metagame from my experience. And yes, it is true that Staraptor is capable of investing in enough Speed EVs to outrun Bisharp, but doing so is hardly worth it as it comes at the price of either Attack or HP, both of which are of utmost importance for a Gale Wings Pokémon.

Aside from the rare situation in which Close Combat's superiority over Superpower must be utilized, I really don't see any advantage Staraptor possesses over Braviary or Honchkrow other than its ability to outrun the other two birds and beat them one-on-one thanks to its superior Speed. As such, I personally believe that, at the very least, Staraptor, Braviary and Honchkrow should occupy the exact same rank, and none of them should be S Rank in my opinion just because of the amount of competition all of them give each other.

Also, I am not suggesting any particular rank for the following Pokémon, but I just want to say that Protean Life Orb Dragonite, Lucario and Arcanine are all amazing Pokémon simply because in addition to being incredibly dangerous against defensive teams thanks to their power and coverage (for example, their Thunder Punch or Wild Charge can KO Suicune in two hits, and their Close Combat or Superpower just destroys many defensive Pokémon), but they are also highly effective against offensive teams due to their very powerful Extreme Speeds. Of those three, Lucario may be the best of them all due to its access to Swords Dance (although sadly, it does not get many opportunities to set up from my experience). After a single boost, it can pretty much destroy most defensive Pokémon with Close Combat or Crunch, and annihilate most offensive Pokémon with a single Extreme Speed.

 

[Klang]

Snorlax for High B Rank:

Snorlax is a great pokemon that can abuse PH + Facade, and can sponge quite a few special attacks, while dealing back impressive damage. You can either run CurseLax with facade, or go with straight offense. Ghost types wall CurseLax, and an offensive set can't deal with many physical attacks from common pokemon such as Keldeo and Bisharp, dropping to B.

Azelf for Low/Mid A Rank:

Due to good mixed offenses and a great speed tier, this pokemon makes for a great LO protean pokemon. It has a decent movepool, and can patch up any coverage your team needs. However, it's defenses limit it's oppurtunity to come in, resorting to either volt switch, sacking, or prediction most of the time, and has a weakness to priority.

Jellicent for Mid B Rank:

With prankster, Jellicent is basically a Sableye with a lot more bulk, but a few more weaknesses. It has access to Taunt, Recover, WoW, and a decent move in Hex or Scald. It can usually take atleast one or two SE hits, and recover off the damage. However, it is completely walled by most magic bouncers (Hex/Scald does pitiful danage against Zapdos, Chansey, or Cresselia) and has the problem of the possible WoW miss. Overall, it can counter Keldeo fairly well, and should have some use in the metagame.

I must admit I completely forgot about these 3 mons and I completely agree with you. Added.

Having considered the choice between Staraptor, Braviary and Honchkrow for the role of a Gale Wings Pokémon extensively in teambuilding, I personally believe that Staraptor is generally the worst of them all, due to its possession of merely an 85 base HP stat compared to the other two birds, which both have 100 base HP, which is extremely important considering the fact that by far the most commonly used move of a Gale Wings Pokémon is a recoil move. And while Staraptor has access to Close Combat instead of the generally-inferior Superpower, let's face it, just how often does a Gale Wings Pokémon utilize any move other than Brave Bird anyway? Even when they do use their Fighting-type move, far more often than not from my experience, they're only using it to KO a Rock or Steel-type Pokémon, most likely on the switch, before switching out immediately on the next turn, rendering Superpower's Attack drop irrelevant anyway.

Aside from the aforementioned, Braviary and Honchkrow both possess additional advantages over Staraptor as a Gale Wings Pokémon. In Braviary's case, its far superior bulk gives it a much easier time tanking Extreme Speeds, since the users of this move very commonly come into Gale Wings Pokémon in order to revenge-kill them from my experience, and this is especially important when you combine it with the fact that a Gale Wings Pokémon will be taking damage from Brave Bird recoil and possibly Stealth Rock. And in Honchkrow's case, while it is actually more frail than Staraptor overall, it has one extremely important advantage in my opinion: its resistance to Sucker Punch, as I believe that almost all offensive teams in Almost Any Ability should have at least one Pokémon with a resistance to Dark-type moves, since Bisharp is incredibly dangerous in this metagame from my experience. And yes, it is true that Staraptor is capable of investing in enough Speed EVs to outrun Bisharp, but doing so is hardly worth it as it comes at the price of either Attack or HP, both of which are of utmost importance for a Gale Wings Pokémon.

Aside from the rare situation in which Close Combat's superiority over Superpower must be utilized, I really don't see any advantage Staraptor possesses over Braviary or Honchkrow other than its ability to outrun the other two birds and beat them one-on-one thanks to its superior Speed. As such, I personally believe that, at the very least, Staraptor, Braviary and Honchkrow should occupy the exact same rank, and none of them should be S Rank in my opinion just because of the amount of competition all of them give each other.

Also, I am not suggesting any particular rank for the following Pokémon, but I just want to say that Protean Life Orb Dragonite, Lucario and Arcanine are all amazing Pokémon simply because in addition to being incredibly dangerous against defensive teams thanks to their power and coverage (for example, their Thunder Punch or Wild Charge can KO Suicune in two hits, and their Close Combat or Superpower just destroys many defensive Pokémon), but they are also highly effective against offensive teams due to their very powerful Extreme Speeds. Of those three, Lucario may be the best of them all due to its access to Swords Dance (although sadly, it does not get many opportunities to set up from my experience). After a single boost, it can pretty much destroy most defensive Pokémon with Close Combat or Crunch, and annihilate most offensive Pokémon with a single Extreme Speed.

I don't use gale wings a lot myself so I won't able able to add any insight on them, though the current ranking of the birds was mostly suggested by asterat and Adrian Marin during the draft so I'll tag them since they'd probably be the ideal people do discuss Gale Wings users and their respective viability rankings with.

EDIT: Also I'll probably be adding common abilities soon so yeah

 

[Monte Cristo]

coming out of retirement to say- what in the fuck is suicune doing in low A

 

[w0rd]

Suicune isn't as good as it used to be - Low A might be a little low but the way the meta has shifted hasn't been too kind to it and most people are prepared for it now. The days of PH Suicune 6-0ing teams are over.

A lot of teams started running Water Absorb as a way of dealing with Keldeo and Zapdos to handle bird spam which both give it trouble. And abilities like Adaptability/Tough Claws/Protean/Sheer Force got more popular - so Suicune is nowhere near as hard to break as it once was.

It's still a good pokemon but not really S rank in the current meta imo

 

[Spoonal]

Regirock up to at least Low A:

Regirock has two very good sets in AssVest Regenerator and No Guard, and is arguably the best scout pokemon in the tier. With even Specs Adapt Keldeo not getting a guaranteed KO, the pokemon can take a beating and help you find what tank you should bring out next. Regirock counters most Gale Wings (and priority) users, forcing them to either switch or take a Rock Slide. This pokemon doesn't have many flaws outside of setup pokemon, which is easily remedied by an unaware pokemon, and can fit on nearly any stall/balance team. Not to mention that if it gets sand support it sponges just about anything, though sand is not generally a necessity. The other set can abuse Zap Cannon and Dynamic Punch to great effect, and has the niche of getting past Magic Bouncers, and can be a really annoying pokemon to deal with.

Overall, Regirock is very common pokemon on stall teams, and for good reason. It fits the A description very well, and I think it deserves atleast Low A.

Gyarados for Mid A:

Now, this pokemon is not very common, but it can hurt a lot of the metagame after one or two Dragon Dances, and mega evolve to negate Unaware and other abilities. It can run many good abilities that include (but aren't limited to): Magnet Pull, Magic Bounce, Lightning Rod, or Magic Guard. With Magnet Pull, it can come in on any steel type not named Magnezone and setup, also having the niche of trapping Bisharp. Magic Bounce allows you not to worry about status/gives you the ability to set up on stall, Lightning Rod negates your 4x Electric weakness, and Magic Guard allows you to negate SR, and Toxic. Probably one of the better megas in this tier.

 

[n64lord]

I wish the script for multitype did something<

Anyway, I've been experimenting with Breloom.

Breloom @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Seed Bomb

This set is a bit of a throwback, but it is a solid answer to weakened teams, and can stay in against some adaptability/protean priority users if it throws a sub on the switch. 130 attack and 150 stab make up for the lack of item/ability boosts. Priority sub can even take a couple turns of life off of pokemon you can't touch if they own life orb or if you are partnered with toxic spikes or the handful of good wisp users. Cripples set up pokes, although not quite as reliably as it would want. Hurt a bit by the wide-spread use of poison heal, but they have to guess at its set, as an unchecked standard technician breloom is still a rather painful opponent as well. Breloom for mid B.

I also tested most special walls as harvest abusers, but don't think it really outclasses their other sets in most cases, and since they all have same tools in sitrus or rest+lum, dosen't give a 1up to any of them over any other.

 

[n64lord]

Heliolisk for A- Rank

Now to recap, this is a normal/electric pokemon whose only good stats are 109 spA and Spe, which also has a pitiful movepool.

Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 spA / 4 spD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Heliolisk's downsides are obvious, there's no mystery as to why it only appears on NU and monotype- normal teams. However, it has exclusive access to a very special attack.

The 20 PP electrify's move description: If the target is electrified before it uses a move during that turn, the target's move becomes Electric type. Relevant Tags (ignores magic bounce/ magic coat, does not ignore substitute)

Combined with lightningrod/motor drive/ volt absorb, this allows the user to absorb any attack, any status(including substitute beaters like taunt and encore), roar, whirlwind, and even defog. Lightningrod is superior to the other two for getting a special attack boost with each use of this psuedo protect.

Only three things can reliably beat such a pokemon.

1: Priority, prankster and gale wings help out here, especially with its crap defense in the case of brave bird.
2: Choice scarf, since it has to move first to use electrify, meaning base 110s are fine as well. Although a sticky web(which he can keep up by blocking hazard removal) means GG.
3: Unaware. The only pokemon that can stall him out of electrify PP as even assault vest users don't want to mess with +6 boosts.

Unreliable checks to him are mold breaker, which nerfs electrify spam so that it "only" removes your STAB and makes your attack not very effective. Sturdy/ focus sash for the usual reasons. Your own lightning rod/motor drive pokemon can also laugh at it.. but you're probably giving something up. Oh and Trace I guess. It's possible to try to predict him and set up in his face. Let's think about what other pokemon he can have on his team to make this pointless? Unaware phasers you say? How about coming in the first place? Obviously he can't take hits worth anything, so the only way to get him to his full potential is to have a slow u-turn/volturn poke.

Overall though, this pokemon, with only one set, becomes a viable anti meta core capable of using keldeo, garchomp, and suicune to begin its own sweep, while also preventing the likes of skarmory/zapdos/ and hetran from doing their jobs unless they give up their best abilities.

 

[Spoonal]

Heliolisk for A- Rank

Now to recap, this is a normal/electric pokemon whose only good stats are 109 spA and Spe, which also has a pitiful movepool.

Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 spA / 4 spD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Heliolisk's downsides are obvious, there's no mystery as to why it only appears on NU and monotype- normal teams. However, it has exclusive access to a very special attack.

The 20 PP electrify's move description: If the target is electrified before it uses a move during that turn, the target's move becomes Electric type. Relevant Tags (ignores magic bounce/ magic coat, does not ignore substitute)

Combined with lightningrod/motor drive/ volt absorb, this allows the user to absorb any attack, any status(including substitute beaters like taunt and encore), roar, whirlwind, and even defog. Lightningrod is superior to the other two for getting a special attack boost with each use of this psuedo protect.

Only three things can reliably beat such a pokemon.

1: Priority, prankster and gale wings help out here, especially with its crap defense in the case of brave bird.
2: Choice scarf, since it has to move first to use electrify, meaning base 110s are fine as well. Although a sticky web(which he can keep up by blocking hazard removal) means GG.
3: Unaware. The only pokemon that can stall him out of electrify PP as even assault vest users don't want to mess with +6 boosts.

Unreliable checks to him are mold breaker, which nerfs electrify spam so that it "only" removes your STAB and makes your attack not very effective. Sturdy/ focus sash for the usual reasons. Your own lightning rod/motor drive pokemon can also laugh at it.. but you're probably giving something up. Oh and Trace I guess. It's possible to try to predict him and set up in his face. Let's think about what other pokemon he can have on his team to make this pointless? Unaware phasers you say? How about coming in the first place? Obviously he can't take hits worth anything, so the only way to get him to his full potential is to have a slow u-turn/volturn poke.

Overall though, this pokemon, with only one set, becomes a viable anti meta core capable of using keldeo, garchomp, and suicune to begin its own sweep, while also preventing the likes of skarmory/zapdos/ and hetran from doing their jobs unless they give up their best abilities.

I don't believe it sould be in A. B, maybe. Stall easily beats with unaware, and offense beats it with priority or fast pokemon like protean Thundurus/Deo-S, which are almost always on those types of teams. It's extremely predictable. Not to mention it doesn't stop ChloroTran, which is easily one of the mosy common Heatran. Really, it's pretty gimmicky and easy to get around.

 

[n64lord]

I don't know how you can call it predictable given it's lack of usage. It seems gimmicky but has a huge number of things to work on instead of specific counters like a traditional gimmick. Any poison heal, most hazard setters, bulky walls, offensive booster or cleaners below it's speed tier are potential victims. You mention drought teams as a problem..... but their wide spreadness leads to most teams having simple answers (sometimes even drizzle lol) Even though this pokemon takes more damage from priority than some others in the A- and B+ tier it has a distinctly different role. Unaware should actually only try to beat it with set up pokes, rather than full wall/phazers due to the rather unpleasant scenario of it switching out at full health to freely bring in a bulky defogger or prankster user. It shouldn't try to beat priotrity pokemon at all. This is kinda obvious. I wouldn't call it easy to get around unless you happen to be running Hyper offense or can keep the frailer pokemon of your bulky offense/ balance team alive throughout the battle.

In a normal situation, it will come in on someting like poison heal zapdos, any skarmory, or keldeo. If you switch to a proteon , it could suprise you with tragic damage, if you allow the current pokemon to die, and bring in the proteon, you mindgame on whether it will attack again or switch out, and find out if KOing it is better than going for setup. For this reason, I find it to be on par with more obviously viable pokemon.

 

[Spoonal]

I don't know how you can call it predictable given it's lack of usage. It seems gimmicky but has a huge number of things to work on instead of specific counters like a traditional gimmick. Any poison heal, most hazard setters, bulky walls, offensive booster or cleaners below it's speed tier are potential victims. You mention drought teams as a problem..... but their wide spreadness leads to most teams having simple answers (sometimes even drizzle lol) Even though this pokemon takes more damage from priority than some others in the A- and B+ tier it has a distinctly different role. Unaware should actually only try to beat it with set up pokes, rather than full wall/phazers due to the rather unpleasant scenario of it switching out at full health to freely bring in a bulky defogger or prankster user. It shouldn't try to beat priotrity pokemon at all. This is kinda obvious. I wouldn't call it easy to get around unless you happen to be running Hyper offense or can keep the frailer pokemon of your bulky offense/ balance team alive throughout the battle.

In a normal situation, it will come in on someting like poison heal zapdos, any skarmory, or keldeo. If you switch to a proteon , it could suprise you with tragic damage, if you allow the current pokemon to die, and bring in the proteon, you mindgame on whether it will attack again or switch out, and find out if KOing it is better than going for setup. For this reason, I find it to be on par with more obviously viable pokemon.

It's predictable because this is the ONLY set it runs in AAA, and despite it not being used a lot, it's widely known to be able to use this set. It's not used for a reason. Also, despite what you keep saying, it can't come in on Zapdos (Most are defensive, and all run Roost so they can potentially stall out Electrify and still take ~50% from Thunderbolt., (some) Keldeo's (Calm Mind, and leaves you at risk of predicting whether they will CM again or Secret Sword when you switch), OR Lightning Rod Skarmory. Most people aren't stupid enough to sit there while you spam Electrify to help you set up. Not to mention that anything with Substitute (or one of the most common walls in the game, Magic Bounce Chansey) completely screw up his plan while being able to toxic anything that comes in on it. I have faced this thing a few times, and never had a problem beating it.

 

[Klang]

Heliolisk for A- Rank

Now to recap, this is a normal/electric pokemon whose only good stats are 109 spA and Spe, which also has a pitiful movepool.

Heliolisk @ Life Orb
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 252 spA / 4 spD/ 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Electrify
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power
- Focus Blast

Heliolisk's downsides are obvious, there's no mystery as to why it only appears on NU and monotype- normal teams. However, it has exclusive access to a very special attack.

The 20 PP electrify's move description: If the target is electrified before it uses a move during that turn, the target's move becomes Electric type. Relevant Tags (ignores magic bounce/ magic coat, does not ignore substitute)

Combined with lightningrod/motor drive/ volt absorb, this allows the user to absorb any attack, any status(including substitute beaters like taunt and encore), roar, whirlwind, and even defog. Lightningrod is superior to the other two for getting a special attack boost with each use of this psuedo protect.

Only three things can reliably beat such a pokemon.

1: Priority, prankster and gale wings help out here, especially with its crap defense in the case of brave bird.
2: Choice scarf, since it has to move first to use electrify, meaning base 110s are fine as well. Although a sticky web(which he can keep up by blocking hazard removal) means GG.
3: Unaware. The only pokemon that can stall him out of electrify PP as even assault vest users don't want to mess with +6 boosts.

Unreliable checks to him are mold breaker, which nerfs electrify spam so that it "only" removes your STAB and makes your attack not very effective. Sturdy/ focus sash for the usual reasons. Your own lightning rod/motor drive pokemon can also laugh at it.. but you're probably giving something up. Oh and Trace I guess. It's possible to try to predict him and set up in his face. Let's think about what other pokemon he can have on his team to make this pointless? Unaware phasers you say? How about coming in the first place? Obviously he can't take hits worth anything, so the only way to get him to his full potential is to have a slow u-turn/volturn poke.

Overall though, this pokemon, with only one set, becomes a viable anti meta core capable of using keldeo, garchomp, and suicune to begin its own sweep, while also preventing the likes of skarmory/zapdos/ and hetran from doing their jobs unless they give up their best abilities.

For reasons Spoonal mentioned, Helolisk isn't a very good Pokemon in the metagame considering once you know what it does, it's rather ineffective. Stall players will not attack it whatsoever and usually just switch between their regens cores (Or regen + bouncer) as you waste your PP (actually since you have LO it'll only be until you die, leftovers is probably better), and offensive players at worst will take a slightly strong attack as they switch to something to outspeed it, and at best get a free switch-in on a predicted electrify.

That being said it does deserve some sort of ranking seeing as it's unique at what it does. Mid C sounds good to me.


Proposed changes:

Regirock from B+ to A-

Heliolisk from Unlisted to C

Gyarados-Mega from Unlisted to A

Breloom from B- to B

Arcanine from Unlisted to A

Lucario from A- to A

Dragonite from A- to A+

Genesect from A to A+


The last 4 haven't been directly mentioned, but were talked about in LLW's post which after testing them myself I agree with.
Any objections?

 

[n64lord]

It ceirtaintly shouldn't be unlisted at any rate, I assume you would settle for a Low B?

Granted that it outspeeds and 2HKO's zapdos with just one boost (leftovers version even), no, they won't PP stall you(unless they accidentally kept pressure or something) Against Keldeo, if you use electrify and they choose to calm mind or substitute, then you can switch to an unaware poke without significant damage to either heliolisk or your tank as the cm set usually shares investment leading to his attacks not even scaring off an unaware cm slowbro. Lightning skarm is outclassed bottom line, and if it chooses to run focus blast over grass knot, it can come back in after you whirlwind and 2HKO. Going for extra boosts is pointlessly greedy and it should usually settle for +1 or +2 and then attack on predicted switches, which are more predictable than Heliolisk himself.

Chansey can't do anything to heliolisk, who can wait it out for a +4 to 2HKO with focus blast and nuke wish switch in's, or simply switch out for again, no real penalty to either himself or your replacement. Surprise substitute sets mess with their counters even for heavy priortiy predicts and keldeo.... so that's moot. Heliolisk works best when you aren't greedy pretty much. Worst case scenario against regen cores is you get 20 turns of hazard damage,

 

[Klang]

It ceirtaintly shouldn't be unlisted at any rate, I assume you would settle for a Low B?

Granted that it outspeeds and 2HKO's zapdos with just one boost (leftovers version even), no, they won't PP stall you(unless they accidentally kept pressure or something) Against Keldeo, if you use electrify and they choose to calm mind or substitute, then you can switch to an unaware poke without significant damage to either heliolisk or your tank as the cm set usually shares investment leading to his 0 attacks not even scaring off an unaware cm slowbro. Lightning skarm is outclassed bottom line, and if it chooses to run focus blast over grass knot, it can come back in after you whirlwind and 2HKO. Going for extra boosts is pointlessly greedy and it should usually settle for +1 or +2 and then attack on predicted switches, which are more predictable than Heliolisk himself.

Chansey can't do anything to heliolisk, who can wait it out for a +4 to 2HKO with focus blast and nuke wish switch in's, or simply switch out for again, no real penalty to either himself or your replacement. Surprise substitute sets mess with their counters even for heavy priortiy predicts and keldeo.... so that's moot. Heliolisk works best when you aren't greedy pretty much.

The thing is, you're implying it will be attacked.

A smart stall player will make sure once it gets in it'll simply be stalled out of electrifies, and then disposed of.

A smart offense player will pivot into something better to handle it as you probably electrify seeing as you don't exactly want Garchomp (or whatever that's in) earthquaking you if the offense player overpredicts.

 

[Spoonal]

It ceirtaintly shouldn't be unlisted at any rate, I assume you would settle for a Low B?

Granted that it outspeeds and 2HKO's zapdos with just one boost (leftovers version even), no, they won't PP stall you(unless they accidentally kept pressure or something) Against Keldeo, if you use electrify and they choose to calm mind or substitute, then you can switch to an unaware poke without significant damage to either heliolisk or your tank as the cm set usually shares investment leading to his attacks not even scaring off an unaware cm slowbro. Lightning skarm is outclassed bottom line, and if it chooses to run focus blast over grass knot, it can come back in after you whirlwind and 2HKO. Going for extra boosts is pointlessly greedy and it should usually settle for +1 or +2 and then attack on predicted switches, which are more predictable than Heliolisk himself.

Chansey can't do anything to heliolisk, who can wait it out for a +4 to 2HKO with focus blast and nuke wish switch in's, or simply switch out for again, no real penalty to either himself or your replacement. Surprise substitute sets mess with their counters even for heavy priortiy predicts and keldeo.... so that's moot. Heliolisk works best when you aren't greedy pretty much. Worst case scenario against regen cores is you get 20 turns of hazard damage,

>assuming they let you boost then switch.
Plus, just because bibarel can switch out of a thunderbolt, grass knot, or close combat doesn't mean it's viable, just like Heliolisk.

 

[n64lord]

The counter argument is the reason there will always be a place for suprise rock polish/ substitute Terrakion.

I feel like if you know that your opponet is going to make the smart move on an endless stall/ revenge kill (in terrakion's) case, then their switch helps you. I just prefer to build my teams like this. Actually I'm fine with a Mid C since it certainly dosen't compare with the reliablity of jellicent and Bird Spam.

I'm a little skeptical about genesect going higher than he is though.

 

[Zewwok]

Genesect is alright, but I don't believe it should be higher than it is now. It has a nice movepool, able to utilize protean well, and decent typing, at least as far as weaknesses go. It's a little frail for the latter to matter a whole lot, but STAB U-turn is cool. In a meta where genesect is slower than average and can't take a priority bird, it falls a bit short. So many other things can do it's job with protean, download or sheer force that it fails to stick out.

 

[TheCommadore]

I agree with word that suicune has really fallen with the meta shifting. Everybody prepares for keldeo now and cune gets shafted by all the pony counters.

As for heliolisk, we don't see it often because it is really gimmicky. Everybody knows what it does and to not simply attack into it with a slower poke. Often times the user will have a difficult prediction where they will either have to give free switches as they spam electrify or risk getting mauled if they incorrectly predict a switch. Stall has pokes that can easily take unboosted or +1 tbolts, such as chansey and regenvest users. Additionally electrify does not stop hazards, so if one is not careful while facing stall they could end up with a field full of spikes. It has been awhile since I last saw one, but I do remember that I managed to kill it with a CM suicune.

I like genesect. Anything with u-turn, espeed, and those mixed attacking stats will be useful in aaa. His big weaknesses are that he is rather fragile and that his 99 speed gets trolled by half the tier. The best set I have tried so far is the protean banded revengekiller. I feel like he is outclassed as a protean wallbreaker due to azelf doing the same thing but with 115 speed and knock off. The ability to use espeed is really what sets him apart from azelf, as it makes up for his speed and is all around the best priority in the game.

 

[Fisherman Walter]

Sneasel for Low B Rank

Sneasel does the exact same thing as weavile, and albeit not as well, it is nonetheless effective. With hard weavile counters long gone, it can provide an extreme annoyance to unprepared teams--refrigerate boosted fake out/quick attack/return is still mighty powerful. Along with knock off, nothing takes particular pleasure in switching in, creating a great revenge killer and late game sweeper alike. Sneasel also provides a great counter to some protean users, namely dragonite and lando-T. Even if it's 95 attack is unappealing, you always have the option to swords dance to create a really dangerous threat.

Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 165-196 (54.2 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 400-476 (104.1 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 259-305 (77.5 - 91.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 421-499 (94.8 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 602-710 (85.5 - 100.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 237-281 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[Spoonal]

Sneasel for Low B Rank

Sneasel does the exact same thing as weavile, and albeit not as well, it is nonetheless effective. With hard weavile counters long gone, it can provide an extreme annoyance to unprepared teams--refrigerate boosted fake out/quick attack/return is still mighty powerful. Along with knock off, nothing takes particular pleasure in switching in, creating a great revenge killer and late game sweeper alike. Sneasel also provides a great counter to some protean users, namely dragonite and lando-T. Even if it's 95 attack is unappealing, you always have the option to swords dance to create a really dangerous threat.

Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Braviary: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Deoxys-D: 165-196 (54.2 - 64.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 400-476 (104.1 - 123.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 259-305 (77.5 - 91.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 421-499 (94.8 - 112.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 602-710 (85.5 - 100.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Regirock: 237-281 (65.1 - 77.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

I agree with Low B, but I really don't see it getting the opportunity to set up on many things, considering it's abyssmal defenses and Life Orb recoil, having even Skarmory able to 2HKO it, and having no recovery moves like Drain Punch. In order to Swords Dance, it also loses out on either Priority (Making faster threats like Deo-S able to kill it), Knock Off(Taking away it's only other STAB), Return(Worst possible move to replace, probably), or Low Kick(Leaving it prone to being walled by things like Regirock and Bisharp.) It also has a huge Extreme Speed problem, limiting it's usefulness, as there are quite a lot of protean E-Speed these days (from what I hear, correct me if I'm wrong). It doesn't counter Protean Dragonite most of the time (or even check him) due to him not able to switch in, AND him losing his 4x weakness even if you can somehow find a way in. It's still an interesting pokemon, however (with a great speed tier for this metagame) and a great stab return, able to make a decent late game cleaner. All in all, though, I think Low B suits it.

Damage Calcs

252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Sneasel Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Dragonite: 101-121 (31.2 - 37.4%) -- 81% chance to 3HKO (Normal Type)
252+ Atk Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sneasel: 237-279 (94.4 - 111.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO

 

[yikes]

PROTEAN BAN
ADJUST YOUR RANKINGS ACCORDINGLY

 

[SketchUp]

I don't have very much experience in the AAA metagame, so my question is what ability/movesets makes Bisharp that huge of a threat?

 

[w0rd]

Adaptability it the main set it runs and is one of the best.

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance / Pursuit

This set hits extremely hard and threatens both Stall and Offense.

To give an idea of its power. After a Swords Dance it OHKOs max defense Skarmory:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 335-395 (100.2 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Sucker Punch even destroys resists like Keldeo:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 265-312 (82 - 96.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

I've also seen it run a Tough Claws set (its STABs don't lose much power, plus Low Kick is boosted) and Flash Fire (a lot of people try to will-o-wisp it to avoid the Sucker Punch)