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Metagame Almost Any Ability

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Laxpras, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. aesf

    aesf outskilled

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    636
    Stall is far too good in the metagame right now, and something needs to be done. So here's a really long post so that I look smart:
    The current metagame is essentially composed of teams that are stall, teams that are centered around beating stall, and teams that get 6-0'd by stall. If you've faced any somewhat competent using a stall team, you'll know that these teams are basically impossible to break right now. This isn't just one of those typical "stall is too good pls nerf" complaints; unless you dedicate your team to stallbreaking or use stall yourself, you will lose to stall.

    Fluffy: Let's first look at the structure of stall: nearly all stall teams have a chansey as a special wall, and due to chansey's ridiculous bulk, a stall builder only has to consider a small handful of special attackers that chansey does not wall, most of which can be covered within one pokemon, which gets even easier when you consider that chansey gets unaware in AAA and that regenvesters have almost no drawback. The rest of the stall team tends to be centered around physical walls and general utility pokemon, and this part is usually also the weaker part. More often than not, this section of the team will contain poison heal pokemon, magic bouncers, defoggers, phasers, and status users, which can be pretty difficult to fit into 4 pokemon. At the same time, these 4 pokemon also usually ensure that the other two special walls don't fall prey to hazards or status, strengthening the team on the special side as well. Needless to say, it's basically impossible to build a perfect stall team with that formula, and nearly impossible to even approximate perfection.
    As for teams of other playstyles, they need to have some formula to beat stall, or else they usually end up losing pretty badly. Most of the time, due to the aforementioned strength of stall from the special side, these teams utilize physical attackers and gradually whittle the team down, because the team by then is nearly impossible to break from the special side.
    Now meet fluffy - an ability that basically doubles defense from the physical side (except from certain attacks*). Fluffy turns some of the strongest pokemon in AAA, such as dragonite and lucario, into absolute jokes, as pokemon such as mandibuzz take absolutely nothing from boosted attacks. This results in one pokemon being able to take on a majority of the physical metagame, as there simply is not as much need for multiple layers of physical walls like before. If you need calcs for the sake of satisfaction, calc any physical attacker against any fluffy wall of your choice and you'll see how ridiculous this ability is.
    Most of you can see where I'm going with this: fluffy is essentially another "chansey" for the physical side; rather than forcing multiple pokemon to patch up the physical side of stall, you can just slap on a very bulky fluffy physical wall, and account for its weaknesses within another pokemon. This leaves you two extra slots to do whatever you want, and this added versatility is another part of what makes stall so devastating. Before fluffy, stall had trouble making room for a magic bouncer or a dugtrio, but now, adding at least one of these is cost-free and only beneficial and can patch up any holes that the physical and special core left open.
    And even on balance or bulky offense teams, fluffy is a pretty much no-drawback option that can completely swing the momentum. It nearly turns all offensive momentum upside down, as most physical attackers become near useless, and fluffy users, unlike chansey, typically carry phasing, switching moves, or attacks that can actually be threatening (like foul play or knock off). Meanwhile, these pokemon can give free switchins to their threats which can obliterate offense due to the presence of multiple other unbalanced abilities in the metagame.
    If I'm not playing with stall, why should I add a hoopa or any wallbreaker if I know it's going to get trapped by weavile or dugtrio? Why should I run non-mold breaker rocks+spikes as a way to beat stall if I know that basically all stall can afford to run magic bounce now? Is it really a good idea to add Kartana or Lucario or any physical attacker that I feel like using if I know I'm going to lose all momentum against balance and stall teams with fluffy? Fluffy pushes stall way over the top, and it needs to see a ban if the metagame needs to become any healthier. Evidence of this includes the fact that 4 out of the top 5 ladder players use stall, and trying to prepare for and win against stall teams in the current metagame is near impossible.
    *Some people have been arguing that there are ways around fluffy. Yes. There are ways around fluffy. Some viable ways around it from pure physical attackers are fire punch, v-create, sacred fire, stone edge, earthquake, seed bomb, and icicle crash. Yes, you can use these moves. But no, this doesn't change just how much fluffy compresses stall teambuilding. It's much, much, easier to cover the primary users of these moves (victini, weavile, entei, mamoswine, terrakion, garchomp, kyurem-b, hoopa) within a couple pokemon (for ex. dugtrio and tapu fini covers almost all) than covering all physical attackers within just 1 more pokemon, and the team with fluffy will almost always have much more useful utility pokemon than the team without. The end result is a stall that ends up being nigh unbreakable from the physical side, nigh unbreakable from the special side, and immune to any non-standard stallbreaker that can get out of hand. If you're saying fluffy isn't broken because intimidate basically does the same thing and wasn't broken, that's like saying 6th gen parental bond wasn't broken [on physical attackers] because huge power was stronger. If you're saying fluffy's not as broken as fur coat so we shouldn't ban it, well, I don't think rayquaza would be as broken as mega rayquaza in OU, but that doesn't mean we should free rayquaza. Whatever the case, fluffy makes stall (and even balance) too strong and eliminates far too much of the metagame, and it needs to be banned.
    tl;dr fluffy's broken just read it lol it doesnt take that long if u sincerely care about competitive almost any ability

    some other needed future suspects: Poison Heal, Protean, Hoopa-U, Stakeout/Illusion, Dragonite, Kyurem-B - someone else can write these up

    Poison Heal: similar to "the fluffy effect", but made even worse given the emergence of 1k arrows zygarde, and it's still good on everything else. Draw-free, extremely potent, and breaks a ton of pokemon, esp. Suicune/Snorlax/Zygarde
    Protean: too much power.
    Hoopa-U: see above
    Stakeout/Illusion: Don't see this suspect happening soon, but give it time and it will need to happen. The ability to just get rid of counters for free and/or force your opponent to sac counters to other pokemon is too good.
    Dragonite: espeed game too strong, versatility game too strong, too much power
    Kyurem-B: too much power
    Chloe., Fírnen, Illusio and 10 others like this.
  2. Xeze

    Xeze

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    I've been using this lately.

    Typhlosion @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Beast Boost
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Eruption
    - Focus Blast
    - Extrasensory
    - Fire Blast


    Modest nature ensures that Beast Boost increases Special Attack. The main purpose of this set is abusing Scarf Eruptions. If you KO something with it, and get a Beast Boost, it will get really scary. The other moves are for coverage and Fire Blast in case you take some damage and still want to try sweeping late game.
  3. simsims2800

    simsims2800

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    998
    You can just run soul heart and timid tho
    Akram, thesecondbest, Illusio and 2 others like this.
  4. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    418
    As the council knows, I really second this and think Fluffy is absolutely broken and the only reason stall can occasionally lose rn is because of other broken things like Hoopa. While the comparison to Chansey is a good one, I honestly think it understates the power of Fluffy. Yes, Fluffy can be broken through with several different moves, namely Earthquake, Stone Edge, and strong Fire type moves, along with a few moves that are limited to one or two threats in the metagame. Like aesf said, however, Fluffy walls so much of the meta in one slot that these ways to break through Fluffy are easily countered by teammates. Additionally, having a Fire move isn't some automatic breeze through Fluffy.

    For an example, lets look at Aerilate Dragonite, who has been running Fire Punch as a way to deal with Fluffy mons. First, how much does Return do to Gliscor? (I'm going to use FC because Fluffy was not affecting damage at all in the showdown calc)
    252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gliscor: 103-123 (29 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    Ok so that does absolutely nothing, now let's say you make a good play and pick Fire Punch for the Gliscor switchin (I made Gliscor Grass type to account for the x2 damage):
    252+ Atk Choice Band Dragonite Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Gliscor: 86-102 (24.2 - 28.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery
    (Replay proof that this is how it works, the opp did not use Choice Band as I asked but you can see that it does nothing: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7almostanyability-506907013)
    So congrats! You picked a Fire move to beat Fluffy and you did less damage than your actual STAB. Let's stop pretending that Fire moves just beat Fluffy users

    Ok so back to the comparison with Chansey, Fluffy is even stronger. Let's take comparable moves: a Jirachi Flash Cannon against Chansey vs a Jirachi Iron Head against Fluffy:
    0 SpA Jirachi Flash Cannon vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 45-54 (7 - 8.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
    0 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 25-31 (5.9 - 7.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever


    So let's take that insane bulk and put it to practical use: A boosted Tough Claws Kartana (181atk +2 with Tough Claws!!!)
    +2 252 Atk Tough Claws Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 109-130 (26 - 31.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    lol nothing

    Go play around in the calc for yourself, it's ridiculous. I think the only reason everyone hasn't been actively crying about Fluffy is because people like Klang are gone so stall hasn't been super prevalent. But when you do hit stall, against someone like motherlove using Fluffy.... I send my condolences. And we haven't even talked about set up Fluffy mons like Volcarona... Let's get the suspect going.
  5. Zephyr Dragon Lord

    Zephyr Dragon Lord

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2016
    Messages:
    369
    You know what? Fluffy is pretty disgusting. I just need to show you this from something with legendary power...

    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Buzzwole: 226-267 (54 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    This is a Stakeout Kyruem-Black Outrage. Even it doesn't get the 2HKO without Stealth Rocks. That is absolutely disgusting. (Fusion Bolt can do the job, however...)

    Also, can I just say that Kyurem-Black itself is disgusting? CB Stakeout Kyurem beats Skarmory. WITH OUTRAGE.

    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 224-264 (67 - 79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Some more disgusting calculations from that set...

    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 574-676 (166.8 - 196.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Magearna: 389-458 (106.8 - 125.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tapu Koko: 376-443 (133.8 - 157.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO (Just in case you thought resists saved you...)
    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 516-607 (127.7 - 150.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 385-453 (97.9 - 115.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Choice Band Kyurem-Black Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 507-597 (120.7 - 142.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Also, some quick Life Orb Refrigerate calcs...

    252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 199-234 (59.5 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 250-296 (61.8 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 113-134 (27.9 - 33.1%) -- 87.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 166-198 (41 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 278-329 (70.5 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 113-134 (32.8 - 38.9%) -- 95.5% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal
    252+ Atk Life Orb Kyurem-Black Fusion Bolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tapu Fini: 250-296 (72.6 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

    Needless to say, we should also have a Kyruem-Black suspect. I question why we allow this monster to roam free.. (Also Stakeout, but that'll be addressed in a separate post)
  6. Boomburst

    Boomburst

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Goodra @ Leftovers
    Ability: Fluffy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
    Careful Nature
    - Dragon Tail
    - Power Whip
    - Rest
    - Toxic

    It can stop everything except STAKEOUT dragon/ice

    It can too

    Hoopa-Unbound @ Leftovers
    Ability: Fluffy
    EVs: 208 HP / 252 Def / 44 SpA / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Calm Mind
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk
    - Dark Pulse

    252 Atk Reckless Staraptor Brave Bird vs. +2 208 HP / 252+ Def Hoopa-Unbound: 109-130 (30.8 - 36.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    only moldbreak hurts
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2016
  7. darksylvion

    darksylvion

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    Why would you run Fluffy Hoopa, it's basically a waste of mon, and also
    252 Atk Choice Band Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 208 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Hoopa-Unbound: 192-228 (54.3 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    This shouldn't be happening to a Fluffy wall imo, as these are kind of breakers Fluffy is supposed to stop.

    Anyways, coming to the point I whole heartedly agree with most of the points everyone said above, Fluffy is just too strong an ability on stall and imo, it hasn't been used on sweepers on balanced team well till now. Also proper damage on non-contact move is just not good enough reason as most of the high power moves which have good distribution among viable mons are contact moves eg close combat, brave bird etc. I am not going to drag along on this since most of the guys have already made cool points, but stall is tough to handle right now, as you have just too much to check on your attackers - Fluffy,Poison Heal, Unaware, Stamina etc and only mon which beats stall right now i.e. Hoopa-U just gets trapped, thus making the game extremely match-up based and more importantly if you aren't running anything you just lose at the preview.
  8. Funbot28

    Funbot28

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,081
    Ok so posted my next video, now detailing the AAA metagame! Please share and like it if you enjoyed :)

  9. Arikado

    Arikado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    Jul 17, 2010
    Messages:
    3,517
    Snorlax used Facade!
    The opposing Lopunny lost 49% of its health!
    [Opposing Lopunny's Cute Charm!]
    Snorlax fell in love!

    The opposing Lopunny fainted!
    Robert Alfons: ..

    Slithermist sent out Incenorator (Incineroar)!
    Pointed stones dug into the opposing Incenorator!
    Turn 8
    ★Arikado: !dt cute charm
    ★Arikado: Slithermist
    Robert Alfons: loool
    ★Arikado: are you aware you're playing the metagame called Any Other ability
    ★Arikado: meaning any pokemon can use any ability u want
    Turn 9
    ★Slithermist: Screw you
    ★Arikado: .-.
    ★Slithermist: F*** off


    is this a regular sighting in OMs ladder.. smh..
  10. tegrof19

    tegrof19

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    324
    yes, every low ladder is like this
    Grains of Salt likes this.
  11. Arikado

    Arikado العدالة تمطر من فوق
    is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus

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    why are people using their in-game teams in fucking AAA lmao how can they suddenly join the OMs ladder like what
    The Idealistic and Eevee General like this.
  12. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Science!

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,378
    People do that in ou, ubers, etc as well. It's just that since you are currently battling low ladder OM players (as opposed to predumable higher ranked players in other tiers) you are seeing more of it.
    Chloe., The Idealistic and tegrof19 like this.
  13. The Ruins of Alpha

    The Ruins of Alpha Drampa's Grandpa

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2016
    Messages:
    183
    So this is my post on the viability of an oft overlooked and undervalued ability, Cute Charm, and its best abuser, Lopunny!

    ...just kidding.


    My pathetic attempt to make this post not a meme:
    Are there any mons with trapping moves that are good at abusing Illusion? Zydog maybe? What benefits from the mons they can remove / lures these mons in? What archetypes would this fit on. I want to abuse Illusion trapping :'(
    Arikado, tegrof19 and simsims2800 like this.
  14. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    i guess i should probably remove cute charm lopunny from the viability rankings...all jokes aside, yeah, some people just want to either abuse something that's currently illegal (intimidate incineroar) or something banned (like aegislash iirc) so they keep looking through the tiers until their team is playable. and we happen to be one of the best for that.
  15. Fírnen

    Fírnen

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    155
    I usually don't post to say that but I really think AAA is ,at the moment, not pleasant to play.
    All team uses Stall core and is unbreakable if the guy has a decent level.
    Something has to be done (I know a few guy already said that), because a cancer tier isn't the best way to attract new guys and keep people who doesn't want have to play cancer to be good at this tier.

    Like some people said, stop thinking Fluffy isn't broken because of its Fire weakness, we all know Buzzwole or another paired with Suicune, Zygarde deal with that fire weakness.
    I think ban this ability as first step will be benefit for the metgame and its pleasure.


    To not only post this, here is one of my favorite set I play:
    Kartana@Choice Band
    Steelworker
    - Smart Strike
    - Leaf Blade
    - Psycho Cut
    - Sacred Sword



    PS: Sorry for my grammar, I'm not very good with English as you can see.
    LorisMasta17, nv, Akashi and 3 others like this.
  16. RukoDNe

    RukoDNe

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    I just stopped by to say that under no special conditions(and under no mold breaker users),Sap Sipper Swampert,Gastrodon,Seismitoad,or any of their evolutions with the same typing,have no real weaknesses

    PS:I'm new,feel free to correct me
  17. Lcass4919

    Lcass4919 The Xatu Warrior

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Messages:
    954
    technically speaking mold breaker grass and freeze dry (ice move that hits super effective on water) are the only two that hit ground water, both of which dont really see enough usage to be deemed "usable" :P technically they have weaknesses, but so rare i wouldnt even really call them that
  18. darksylvion

    darksylvion

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    580
    A cool stall-breaking set I have been trying out for last few days, involving not so popular lando-t. Seeing that refrigerate isn't that popular anymore outside weavile I guess(even that runs technician most of the time), so I was trying out a double dance set of lando-t as a sweeper with aerialate. But after a few matches I kind of invented this set, which actually works quite well vs stall teams.

    [​IMG]
    Landorus-Therian (M) @ Flyinium Z
    Ability: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Earthquake
    - Fly
    - Rock Polish
    This set utilises dual STABs on lando along with tinted lens as an ability. It basically tries to utilise Z-Crystal to take on common physical walls on stall like skarmory which in turn opens up holes in their team. It won't straight up sweep teams due to unaware being common, but it lures things which generally lando doesn't break through at all, as well as gives you an inherent advantage against aforementioned teams. Also Rock Polish +Tinted Lens means it isn't dead-weight against offensive teams either. Basically you'll have to know on which mon are you willing to use your Z-crystal before hand.
    One impressive thing is at +2 it 1HKOes defensive skarmory with Flying Z move. :)
    Show Hide

    +2 252+ Atk Tinted Lens Landorus-Therian Supersonic Skystrike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 384-454 (114.9 - 135.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252+ Atk Tinted Lens Landorus-Therian Fly vs. 252 HP / 172+ Def Zapdos: 302-356 (78.6 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



    Edit : Shit 500th post lol
  19. TauNeutrino

    TauNeutrino

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Messages:
    20
    Has anyone looked at Victini? With a CB Stakeout set it OHKOs Chansey after rocks with V-Create (No, not the fluffy one. It OHKOes STANDARD Chansey after rocks and does the same to hippo) and Firium Z combined with Sunny Day allows it to boost to +1 speed and gain a disgustingly powerful V-Create which can be combined with Beast Boost for no speed drops. A Stakeout Scarf set is also terrifying, giving it pseudo-trapping in that it can easily KO pretty much anything on the switch. It's also quite versatile, being able to run Soul Heart, Desolate land etc. It also is one of the few mons that can deal with Buzzwole.
  20. Boomburst

    Boomburst

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
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    42
    STAKEOUT is good, isn't it?

    Hoopa-Unbound @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Stakeout
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Dark Pulse
    - Destiny Bond
    - Psyshock
    - Trick

    Kartana @ Life Orb
    Ability: Stakeout
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Night Slash
    - Sacred Sword
    - Smart Strike
  21. M BLADE

    M BLADE

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Messages:
    1,343
    [​IMG]

    Latias @ Leftovers
    Ability: Stamina
    Evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Calm Mind
    -Stored Power
    -Refresh/Dragon Pulse
    -Recover

    The premise is simple: Stamina gives you +1 defense everytime you get hit, not only making Latias bulkier every hit... it also boosts Stored Power even further just by taking hits.

    CM boosts Stored Power and makes you nearly impossible to die from special hits, Refresh gets rid of status (Dragon Pulse hits most mons immune to Stored Power), Recover is mandatory so you can endure hits so Stamina kicks in.


    [​IMG]

    Chesnaught @ Fist Plate / Salac Berry
    Ability: Triage
    Evs: 4 HP /252 Atk / 252 Spe or 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    -Belly Drum
    -Drain Punch
    -Stone Edge/ Rock Slide
    -Seed Bomb / Leech Seed

    Also simple: as the only Belly Drum + draining move with STAB of the meta, Chensaught can get some nice opportunities of sweeping. Instant +6 and priority Drain Punch is pretty good for sure. Too bad it doesn't learn Horn Leech or it would be 2 STAB moves with priority.
  22. AtomicDusky

    AtomicDusky

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Messages:
    1
    Wailord @ Sitrus Berry
    Ability: Innards Out
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
    Lonely Nature
    - Ice Beam
    - Hydro Pump
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake

    So this is the Idea. People usually expect chansey to have Innards Out but no one will expect wailord. Plus its amazing 45/45 defences and its 170 hp makes it a bomb ready to tick. The sitrus berry is there for in case you get injured and still survive.
  23. simsims2800

    simsims2800

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    Mar 13, 2013
    Messages:
    998
    you'd probably want to do max hp, minimum defenses for that
  24. tegrof19

    tegrof19

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2012
    Messages:
    324
    also wailord is just a bad pokemon so it's overly obvious it's IO
    motherlove likes this.
  25. eat pray balk

    eat pray balk

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Messages:
    11
    a better trick for wailord would be faking IO and running scarfed adaptability or mold breaker water spout
    an even better trick would be not running wailord because 252+ scarfed is still outsped by most relevant offensive mons and guzz does both gimmicks better
    motherlove likes this.

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