1. The moderators of this forum are The Immortal, Chloe., and E4 Flint.
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.
  3. Click here to ensure that you never miss a new SmogonU video upload!

Metagame Almost Any Ability

Discussion in 'Other Metagames' started by Laxpras, Nov 26, 2016.

  1. The Immortal

    The Immortal They Don't Want None
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,833
    So Lcass, and half the council, quit. LaxLapras will now be hosting this thread. I am in the process of assembling a new council and the first suspect looks to be Fluffy.
  2. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    523
    As far as I can tell, the Fluffy suspect will start next week, so I'd like to get the discussion started now.

    The most prominent Fluffy users, Buzzwole and Skarmory, are near impossible to break with physical attacks. The most prevalent and reliable way to bypass Fluffy, Earthquake, is useless against both of them. It's been explained fairly thoroughly in previous posts why Fluffy is so damn good, but I have two points for people to think about:

    1. Other Fluffy users
    Skarmory and Buzzwole are clearly the best users, as they already fear Fire and they have incredible physical bulk. Additionally, they don't fear many physical attacks that bypass Fluffy. However, are there any unorthodox Fluffy sets that you can think of? Keep in mind, you don't have to use Fluffy as a defensive ability. Fluffy Quiver Dance Volcarona is a great set up mon that can tank much of the meta.

    2. Fluffy lures
    I'm not talking about something like Hoopa-U who can just beat Fluffy since Hyperspace doesn't make contact. Can you think of a set that would make an opponent switch a Buzzwole or Skarmory in, but you actually have the matchup advantage? One thought is Protective Pads (an item which make moves not make contact), another thing to consider is threats that are typically physical, but have a usable special attack, such as Lucario.

    What can you think of?
    Of course post any other thoughts about Fluffy, or the meta in general, if you have them.
  3. Sergeant Spooky

    Sergeant Spooky

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2013
    Messages:
    1,040
    Quick note that the OP doesn't list Shadow Tag as a banned ability (it is banned on ladder.)

    edit at below: alright makes sense
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2017
  4. The Immortal

    The Immortal They Don't Want None
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,833
    It's completely banned (by OU), the OP bans are banned for Pokémon that don't have it naturally.
    Zephyr Dragon Lord likes this.
  5. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,800
    Other fluffy users: I've had some success with offensive scizor; no one is ever surprised when it easily lives attacks and assume it's bulky, which lets me set up swords dances easily before mega evolving. It's also really easy to bluff flash fire, so people almost never try it.
    I've also used fluffy kartana to great effect. When people look at it, they seem to forget that it's as physically bulky as Ferrothorn, so it's always great when people try and take it out with, say, scarf terrakion and have 252 Atk Adaptability Terrakion Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Fluffy Kartana: 208-248 (80.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO happen. The fire weakness never ends up being relevant, as on physical hits it cancels out and the idea of kartana living a special fire move is ridiculous.

    As far as luring fluffy goes, I like Fire Blast Dragonite. You don't even need investment or a life orb, you just 0- SpA Dragonite Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Fluffy Skarmory: 380-448 (113.7 - 134.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO. It also takes on buzzwole, either with fire blast or directly with a 4x se extreme speed.
    Another thing I like is stakeout Zygdog. It's almost impossible to switch into with choice band+stakeout, but it's really easy to bluff an -ate set. Ordinarily, 252 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 70-84 (20.9 - 25.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery happens, so it's easy to convince them to switch it in and take the hit before roosting, but coming in on 252 Atk Choice Band Stakeout Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 210-247 (62.8 - 73.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery is an entirely different story. Unfortunately, buzzwole comes in on outrage and takes like 30%, but since zygarde really only needs those two moves (and maybe extreme speed) you can slot in HP Fire/Flying or more likely drop a draco meteor on it 0- SpA Stakeout Zygarde Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 349-412 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
    Iynhe, Jrdn, sin(pi) and 3 others like this.
  6. mrmime4

    mrmime4

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2016
    Messages:
    4
    About Fluffy:
    You should always keep in mind that every z-move bypasses fluffy. So for example these sets are very effective fluffy lures:

    Kartana @ Grassium Z
    Ability: Tinted Lens
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Leaf Blade
    - Swords Dance
    - Sacred Sword
    - Night Slash

    +2 252 Atk Tinted Lens Kartana Bloom Doom(175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 418-492 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +2 252 Atk Tinted Lens Kartana Bloom Doom(175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 206-244 (61.6 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Dragonite @ Firium Z
    Ability: Aerilate
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    Lonely/Naughty Nature
    - Extreme Speed
    - Dragon Dance
    - Fire Blast
    - Earthquake

    0 SpA Dragonite Inferno Overdrive(185 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 354-418 (105.9 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO <-- this is even without fluffy xD
    0 SpA Dragonite Inferno Overdrive vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 442-520 (105.7 - 124.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO <-- and this aswell

    or (seemingly)physical attackers with good spatk like kyurem-b:

    Kyurem-Black @ Life Orb
    Ability: Refrigerate
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Rash/Mild Nature
    - Hyper Voice
    - Fusion Bolt
    - Return
    - Filler

    252+ SpA Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Buzzwole: 395-465 (94.4 - 111.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpA Life Orb Refrigerate Kyurem-Black Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 317-374 (94.9 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

    or physical attackers with moves such as stone edge

    Tyranitar @ Choice Band
    Ability: Adaptability
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Stone Edge
    - Crunch
    - Superpower
    - Pursuit

    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 210-248 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- this needs to be rocky helmet or so becasue leftovers isnt a safe 2hko
    252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 208-246 (62.2 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    ^^I have encountered all these sets on the ladder.
  7. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Breaking hearts since '09
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,457
    [​IMG]

    Anywyas, I feel Genesis Supernove Mew will actually be an interesting threat in AAA due to the fact that it can run a plethora of great offensive abilities alongside the affects of Psychic Terrain that gets called up by this move. This means that offensive Mew sets might actually be really scary due to Psychic Terrain blocking priority moves. I know the affects only last 5 turns, but maybe thats just enough to absolutely demolish the enemy team...

    Here is something I came up with:

    [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    Show Hide

    Scolipede (F) @ Black Sludge
    Ability: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 HP / 208 Def / 48 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Attract
    - Baton Pass

    Mew @ Mewnium Z
    Ability: Sheer Force
    EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Psychic
    - Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
    - Aura Sphere
    - Nasty Plot


    Classic ScoliPass into Nasty Plot Mew might be actually terryfying to deal with thanks to Mew's amazing coverage options alongside its Psychic STAB. IIRC, Psychic under Psychci Terrain can 2HKO Chansey after a Nasty Plot boost, and can OHKO targets such as Tapu Fini, Suicune, and even Skarmory if I am not mistaken.

    What are your guys thoughts on Mewnium Z's release?
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2017
    nv and Jrdn like this.
  8. Laxpras

    Laxpras You don't want zero problems big fella

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2015
    Messages:
    523
    Fluffy Suspect Announcement
    [​IMG]
    We're going to being a suspect of the ability Fluffy. Fluffy provides a x2 boost to defense against any move that makes contact at the cost of an added weakness to fire. This makes Fluffy almost like a "Fur Coat clone" as the majority of physical moves do make contact, and the fire weakness has not been too costly in the current meta.

    Fluffy will be allowed during the suspect.

    The requirements to vote are only 2700 COIL on the suspect ladder. This is a fairly low requirement, so I hope many of you will take the little bit of time required to participate.

    Estimation of how many battles you need based on your GXE (open)
    [​IMG]


    Feel free to post your opinions about Fluffy at any time, regardless if you have met the reqs or not. To make your vote, please comment a screenshot of your reqs and in bold write BAN or DO NOT BAN.

    The suspect will end on February 8th.

    The Immortal
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2017
  9. The Immortal

    The Immortal They Don't Want None
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Battle Server Administratoris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Programmeris a Forum Moderatoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnus
    Other Metas Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    5,833
    The suspect ladder will be up soon. You don't need any special tags in your account. I've edited LaxLapras's post accordingly.
    nv, darksylvion, Laxpras and 2 others like this.
  10. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,800
  11. Djqubi

    Djqubi

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2011
    Messages:
    123
    My apoligies, should have readen more carefully.
  12. Ryota Mitarai

    Ryota Mitarai

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    After some time struggling with my bad luck, I finally reached the Coil of 2700!
    [​IMG]
    Anyways I would like to vote BAN. I don't have a really ''strong'' argument but let's just post it:

    Fluffy is insanely OP and is a pseudo clone of Fur Coat. One could run Fire-type moves to counter it, although Flash Fire switch-ins are everywhere. Another option is special users, although Fluffy users often come with a Special Wall.
    aesf likes this.
  13. Fardin

    Fardin

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2016
    Messages:
    342
    [​IMG]
    Fluffy just makes the meta boring, and unhealthy...its about time stall got a nerf. Ban
    thesecondbest, aesf, nv and 2 others like this.
  14. Boomburst

    Boomburst

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Why suspect fluffy?I think Innards Out is much more broken than Fluffy
    Jacob Tanner likes this.
  15. Ryota Mitarai

    Ryota Mitarai

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    Currently, Fluffy is seen on more teams than Innards Out probably.
  16. Ryota Mitarai

    Ryota Mitarai

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2016
    Messages:
    41
    So let's post a set that I actually have used really succesfully and is good if used correctly:

    Xurkitree @ Psychium Z
    Ability: No Guard
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Hypnosis
    - Tail Glow
    - Thunder / Zap Cannon
    - Dazzling Gleam

    Z-Hypnosis boosts the Speed of user by 1 stage and with No Guard, Hypnosis hits and your opponent falls asleep and Xurkitree receives a Speed increase in the same time. Then you click once Tail Glow and get an absurdly high Spa. You have 2 options for STAB: Thunder or Zap Cannon. I prefer Thunder more due to having more PP, which lets you spam Thunder without fearing the PP stall. Dazzling Gleam is its coverage. It hits Dragon-type Pokemon, which resist Thunder, OHKOes or 2KOes literally any Ground-type Pokemon with one Tail Glow. Just keep Xurkitree away from faster Pokemon (set up on slower ones instead), along with Magic Bounce and (potentially) Prankster.

    +6 252 SpA Xurkitree Thunder vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 454-535 (70.7 - 83.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 SpA Xurkitree Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde-10%: 248-294 (99.5 - 118%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
    +3 252 SpA Xurkitree Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mamoswine: 405-477 (112.1 - 132.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2017
    Zephyr Dragon Lord likes this.
  17. Fírnen

    Fírnen

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2013
    Messages:
    161
    [​IMG]
    Ban Fluffy.

    It's a good step in the destruction of stall teams. Even if stall teams will run others cores, I think ban Fluffy will nerve a little the cancer we can see in ladder.
    But the metagame won't be balanced after the "ban".
    Others things are too much, but we will speak about that in other day.
    aesf, nv, Zephyr Dragon Lord and 2 others like this.
  18. Jrdn

    Jrdn

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2014
    Messages:
    224
    24-2 record to get #1 on ladder and reqs, yay :)

    Ban fluffy, it's terrible and unhealthy for the metagame and this is just one step towards #makingAAAgreatagain

    Also shoutout to me for using such hot memes such as gale wings

    Attached Files:

  19. Luna

    Luna Lunatic
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderatoris a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2016
    Messages:
    352
    Belly Drum Chesnaught with Triage and Drain Punch is really fun and good in this OM. Thanks for the person who showed that set here!
    Psychic Terrain tilts me though ;_;
  20. aesf

    aesf outskilled

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2013
    Messages:
    648
    screenshot (open)

    Screen Shot 2017-01-28 at 8.11.27 PM.png


    Ban
    centralizing, unhealthy, fat, centralizing, adds nothing to metagame, cancer, no skill, bad, centralizing, etc.
    I posted my thoughts already
  21. Boomburst

    Boomburst

    Joined:
    May 5, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Typhlosion @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Eruption

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 274-324 (42.6 - 50.4%) -- 95.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune in Sun: 237-279 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Typhlosion Eruption (150 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Sun: 334-393 (80.6 - 94.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

    Victini @ Choice Specs
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    EVs: 156 Atk / 252 SpA / 100 Spe
    Mild Nature
    - Blue Flare
    - Flare Blitz
    - Final Gambit/Trick
    - Solar Beam

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune in Sun: 193-228 (47.7 - 56.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
    156 Atk Victini Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 298-352 (46.4 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Tapu Fini: 238-280 (69.1 - 81.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
    252+ SpA Choice Specs Victini Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Rhydon in Sun: 273-321 (65.9 - 77.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

    And Chlorophyll give them enough speed in sunny days,GREAT POWER
    Linkin Karp likes this.
  22. Quantum Tesseract

    Quantum Tesseract Imasugu
    is a Pre-Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,800
    upload_2017-1-29_9-29-23.png
    I had a mediocre run (s/o Jordn and aesf for so many l's), but I ended up making it. I'm going to be voting ban on fluffy, this ability is just ridiculous. I shouldn't have to run 3+ different wall- and stall-breakers to not autolose to stall, but thats' what the incredible bulk and role compression fluffy gives requires. I have the feeling that this might push the metagame even more out of wack for a bit because of all the other similarly broken offensive threats (*cough* Kyub and Stakeout *cough*), but this is a first step and we can deal with those later.
    Boomburst, aesf, Funbot28 and 3 others like this.
  23. darksylvion

    darksylvion

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2015
    Messages:
    770
    Capture1.PNG
    Well, not my best ladder run, but whatever.
    Voting BAN
    Too OP an ability, over-centralising af and puts extreme stress on team-building in general. Powerful moves like close combat are nullified to the point that fluffy mons without resistance to fighting can switch into stuff like banded adaptability terrakion which is just insane IMO.
    Though there will be a myriad of pokemons that will be suspected as a result of it's ban, but that's a story for another day, for now let's eliminate this cancer from AAA.
    #makeAAAgreatagain
  24. lightninging

    lightninging

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2015
    Messages:
    239
    just started playing aaa this gen so my current alt is like 6-3 lmao but ive got a really fun set for yall.

    Volcarona @ Firium Z
    Ability: Desolate Land
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Quiver Dance
    - Fire Blast
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Ground]

    Volcarona is really really good right now. Ive been seeing lots of Primarina and Tapu Finis running around the ladder, and this mon absolutely abuses em. Moonblast does jack shit and Scald/Hydro is obviously pointless. The coverage is decent, although HP Ground is replaceable, as inferno overdrive KOs heatrans, most of which are levitate anyway. I guess HP ground helps with scizor and stuff. Basically, abuse your water immunity to get up free QDs, nuke resists with Inferno Overdive, then sweep. KOs stuff like Latios and Dragonite easily. Much fun, 10/10 would recommend.

    ps i beat zephyr dragon lord with this so u know its legit
  25. Porii Sames

    Porii Sames

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    581
    [​IMG]
    fluffy isn't broken from what i've seen; there's a ton of good shit running around and stall is fine without it (i don't use it on my team anymore really). so NO BAN.
    aesf likes this.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

  1. LorisMasta17