Alphabet Cup

[TM13IceBeam]

thundurus isn't exactly 'centralising'. people are using it because it is the most reliable way to stop boosters in their tracks, which is a gigantic issue seeing as just about at least 6 viable pokemon (salamence, scizor, sceptile, staraptor, scolipede, suicune, scrafty, slurpuff etc) suddenly got access to shell smash and a bunch more to geomancy/belly drum etc.

this is probably one of the rare cases where being on every team isn't in any fault of thundurus: there is literally only one other pokemon who can do thundurus's job, and electric-typing aside they are for all intents and purposes the same pokemon. in fact i'd say thundurus's presence (and by extension tornadus) is the only thing that is stopping the game from being fucked over by set up sweepers anyway. the only other options outside of these are quagsire (his bases are fucking terrible and the only addition he got was quiver dance) and clefable (beats salamence/scrafty but loses to just about everything else)

if thundurus/tornadus was banned we'd probably be looking at stuff afterwards like a salamence or scolipede ban simply for their ridiculous offensive/support abilities (salamence has excellent offenses and the movepool to back it up, scolipede beats blaziken now lolol)

 

[Knuckstrike]

the only other options outside of these are quagsire (his bases are fucking terrible and the only addition he got was quiver dance) and clefable (beats salamence/scrafty but loses to just about everything else)

I don't see what's so terrible about clefable. Sure, it loses against shell smash scizor, no denying that. However it can easily beat any of the other set-up sweepers you mentioned. Last battle there was a shell smash staraptor. It did about 45% to my clefable after a shell smash, not nearly enough to prevent me from moonlight+leftovers stall him until I'm at full and then proceed to either 2HKO with moonblast or if it's really threatening circle throw it out. In fact, almost nothing in the tier can do over half to clefable, let alone OHKO it, making it practically a sweep-preventing pokemon. And how exactly is suicune able to set up a shell smash and break through clefable?

Anyway, people on the ladder seem to forget stealth rocks is still the most important move in the game. This makes it worth it putting at least one pokemon with a sash on your team. I've played thirty battles (am now #3 on the ladder, #1 shouldn't be too difficult) and I've seen one person with stealth rocks so far. A sashed pokemon like bisharp will give at least a free kill and works very well against set-up sweepers also.

In conclusion, although set-up sweepers are awesome, they're not unstoppable.

 

[Ranger Mike]

That's the point that we're getting at is that thundy i is one of the only ways to counter set up via prankster topsy turvy, I havent tested it but i can only imagine that unaware clefable yearns for magic guard as for stealth rocks while its nice to have it it's not in any way shape or form, and imo the most important move in the game is splash rapid spin.
Speaking of that what new spinners are viable now that r is for rapid spin.

 

[Albacore]

Since Rapin Spin's usage depends on SR, wouldn't that inherently make SR more important than Rapid Spin?

I agree that we never see rocks in Alphabet Cup. People are too busy trying out the new best move in the game, Shell Smash.

Btw, does anything get Belly Drum + Extremespeed? That can really mess Thundurus up. You could also have something with Shell Smash or Geomancy faster than Thundy with Priority, but that's much less reliable.

Edit : Linoone does, but it's barely viable.

 

[Aragorn the King]

That's the point that we're getting at is that thundy i is one of the only ways to counter set up via prankster topsy turvy, I havent tested it but i can only imagine that unaware clefable yearns for magic guard as for stealth rocks while its nice to have it it's not in any way shape or form, and imo the most important move in the game is splash rapid spin.
Speaking of that what new spinners are viable now that r is for rapid spin.

(At least) Somewhat viable pokemon who might be able to fight Rapid Spin into their moveset:

• 
  
  
  • Regice
  • Regirock
  • Registeel
  • Relicanth
  • Reuniclus
  • Rhydon
  • Rhyperior
  • Roserade
  • Rotom

Also, Albacore, Extremespeed and Belly Drum never overlap, other than Linoone + Smeargle.

 

[Ranger Mike]

linoone does Albacore .

 

[Albacore]

Rotom appears to be the best spinner in the game besides Espeed Excadrill, which I don't think anybody saw coming. But as I said, rocks aren't really a thing anymore.

 

[mrglass]

So Sylveon seems to also be able to take advantage of the abundance of S moves

I think I might use a set with Hyper Voice, Calm Mind, Searing Shot, and Sacred Sword

Also, what's the stance on Samurott? it seems like one of the best potential Shell Smash users with its good mixed attacking stats, and it has access to priority via Aqua Jet.

 

[skies]

So Sylveon seems to also be able to take advantage of the abundance of S moves

I think I might use a set with Hyper Voice, Calm Mind, Searing Shot, and Sacred Sword

Also, what's the stance on Samurott? it seems like one of the best potential Shell Smash users with its good mixed attacking stats, and it has access to priority via Aqua Jet.

Why Sacred Sword? Did you mean Secret Sword?

 

[skies]

And also, has anyone thought about Agility Azumarill? With just 252 Spe and an Adamant Nature, you patch up its Speed (effectively a base 132 Speed after just one Agility!) and are free to not run Aqua Jet (unless you struggle with Talonflame).

 

[nu nu X]

This set here is incredible. Just sayin'.

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure/Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Def / 136 HP / 76 SAtk / 44 Spd
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Boomburst
- Calm Mind
- Blue Flare

Set up those cms then sweep. It's recommended that you have something to Baton Pass Blissey some defense boosts like Cotton Guard Celebi so it can take hits better. Also, Serene Grace is slashed just in case you want a higher chance of giving your foes a burn.

 

[11pikabro]

I've been having wonderful success using a familiar lead Pokemon with a twist:

Machamp Lum Berry
Ability: No Guard
EVs: 240 HP / 248 Atk / 16 SpD / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -Spe)
~ Magic Coat
~ DynamicPunch
~ Stone Edge
~ Mach Punch /Bullet Punch

Machamp is here to threaten not only with DynamicPunch now but also with Magic Coat, used to shut down Pokemon that use Dark Void and Spore. I found Stone Edge more to my liking than Knock Off, as it OHKO's the commonly seen Thundurus. It's also nice to see it get the STAB Mach Punch, but Bullet Punch can be used when the coverage is helpful.

 

[DinaIsha]

Here's my RMT, attempted at creating a well-rounded team for the tier (Peaked at #1). Rest assured, the tier has a lot of potential.

 

[DeathIncarnate501]

Belly Drum Simple Bibarel.
It's over.

EDIT: Also, Skill Swap Slaking
Wish/whirlwid wobbufett

Simple doesn;t help belly drum

 

[xhig]

Simple doesn;t help belly drum

Yup. Belly Drum instantly makes your Attack at +6. It can't go higher than that, so Simple will do nothing for it.

 

[xhig]

Also, doing some minor Serene Grace research...Meloetta-Aria gets Mist Ball, which will guarantee a Special Attack reduction. And Meteor Mash for Pirouette...and Shaymin-Sky now gets Scald, which provides coverage AND has a 60% chance of burning. There's probably more stuff, but that's just some observation.

 

[Albacore]

Just FYI, Diamond Storm is now available. So now, Darmanitan and Diggersby have a much better Rock-type move to use.

 

[Brammi]

I have been running a stall team and I've been getting pretty good results. Unaware Clefable is a beast in this meta, especially with the lovely addition of Cotton Guard.

I've been finding Wobbuffet to be brilliant as well with WoW - Encore - Tickle - Wish. This effectively lets me catch stuff and just ruin them 1 on 1. I find it especially fun to taunt Slaking, switch in Wobb, WoW, then encore before it gets to use Skill Swap. Wish means that I finish up the easy kill with perfect help and I took out their S poke.

I combined this with a Moxie cleaner with Pursuit so when they are dealing next to no damage, I switch in and get a nice little free boost.

 

[Albacore]

I also use Wobbuffet, but I have WoW / Whirlwind / Wish / Mirror Coat. Its great if you want to deal with both physical and special threats. Unfortunately, it can't touch Darmanitan. Besides that, it's superb.

Absol has also been surprisingly good in my team with all the status flying around. I use him as a lead with Protect / Swords Dance / Knock Off / Double-Edge (Play Rough isn't compatible with Knock Off unfortunately, but Dark/Normal has great coverage).

 

[kakuna02]

BLISSEY CAN LEARN BATON PASS
:O

 

[Albacore]

BLISSEY CAN LEARN BATON PASS
:O

Yeah, but Chansey can learn Cotton Guard...

 

[kakuna02]

Yeah, but Chansey can learn Cotton Guard...

Don't you want to baton pass ridiculous substitutes?

 

[canno]

Don't you want to baton pass ridiculous substitutes?

Blissey also gets STAB Boomburst. It's from base 75 I think, but still, STAB Boomburst not bad :]

 

[Cryptrik]

I've played this metagame for a few days now and I've noticed that Butterfree can make for a somewhat reliable Smeargle replacement when you have another "S" Pokemon in your party.

My Butterfree currently has:

Sleep Powder (learned)
Belly Drum (B)
Baton Pass (B)
Quiver Dance (learned)

Thanks to its ability Compound Eyes, the 75% accuracy of Sleep Powder is bumped up to 91% in the absence of Spore. Theoretically you could give this Butterfree a Wide Lens to amp up this accuracy even more, but then it wouldn't have a Focus Sash in order to have a guaranteed turn to pull off Sleep Powder.

This Butterfree can serve many of its teammates' needs. If you need a 4x Attack boost, Belly Drum will get it done. If you want a solid Sp Atk, Sp Def, and Speed increase, then you can use Quiver Dance.

However, this Butterfree has no attacking moves, so it will be completely shut out by Taunt. If it is the last Pokemon in your party, your opponent will automatically win. But, if you want an "S" Pokemon on your team that's not Smeargle, Butterfree is a solid choice.

 

[EJ190]

So when steam eruption gets implemented who'll be the best candidate for it? For that matter are there any good users of diamond storm and light of ruin?