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Quality Control Altaria Analysis (QC 0/3)

Discussion in 'PU Analyses' started by Lakeredman, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
    12
    (Overview)

    ·Altaria is great offensively and defensively, due to it's type, great bulk, and access to Dragon Dance.
    ·Access to Earthquake means that Altaria isn't walled by Steel-types (excluding Bronzor and Ferroseed).
    ·On a similar note, great defensive moves, such as Roar and Heal Bell, give Altaria a niche as a wall.
    ·Unfortunately, although Altaria has great bulk and a good defensive typing, its typing gives it a nasty 4x weakness to Ice and a weakness to Stealth Rock, severely limiting its staying power.
    ·Even after a boost from Dragon Dance, Altaria is still able to be revenge killed by fast scarfers, like Mr.Mime. It also lacks power to a degree, and fails to pick up certain K.Os. even with a boost.
    ·Altaria's defensive set is somewhat passive, leaving it set up fodder for Pokemon like Musharna unless Altaria is carrying Roar. The defensive set is also very weak to Taunt.

    (SET 1) Dragon Dance
    Name: Dragon Dance
    Move 1: Dragon Dance
    Move 2: Earthquake
    Move 3: Roost
    Move 4: Dragon Claw / Outrage
    Item: Dragonium Z / Yache Berry
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 192 Spe / 64 HP

    (SET Comments)
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------


    Moves

    ·Dragon Dance is the obligatory set-up move, allowing Altaria to sweep.
    ·Earthquake allows Altaria to hit Steel-types, like Aggron and Probopass, as they resist Dragon Claw / Outrage.
    ·Roost allows Altaria to heal itself, which is essential, especially when Stealth Rock is up.
    · Dragon Claw is the preferred STAB move, hitting most of the tier for neutral damage while still hitting decently hard and having no drawbacks. Outrage can be used for more power, but Steel- and Fairy-types can take advantage of Altaria being locked into a Dragon-type move.

    (SET details)

    ·Natural Cure removes status from Altaria when it switches out, giving it multiple chances to sweep, while also aiding it in staying alive in general.
    ·Yache Berry allows Altaria to absorb one Ice-type move, which can help in situations where the opposing Pokemon is carrying Ice-type coverage. This is especially helpful against Piloswine, as it may try to revenge kill Altaria with Ice Shard, expecting a OHKO.
    ·Dragonium Z gives Altaria a one-time nuke to break bulky Pokemon, such as Gourgiest.
    · 252 Attack EVs are run to maximize Altaria's physical attack power. 192 Speed EVs are run to outpace Alolan Raichu and anything slower after a boost. Finally, 64 EVs are put into HP to somewhat increase Altaria's already good bulk.

    (Usage Tips)
    ---------------
    ---------------
    · Altaria's best shot at sweeping is during the late-game, where Altaria's checks and counters will be heavily weakened.
    ·In order for Altaria to sweep, bulky Pokemon, such as Regirock and Gourgiest, should be removed or significantly weakened. This is less of an issue if Altaria has Dragonium Z, however.
    ·In a similar vein, Steel- and Fairy-types, like Ferroseed and Granbull, should be weakened or removed before Altaria tries to set up.
    ·However, Altaria can set up mid-game to wallbreak and force switches.

    (Team Options)
    -------------------
    -------------------
    ·Ice-types pose a huge threat to Altaria, so Fire- and Fighting-types are greatly appreciated.
    ·Hazard removers, such as Komala and Swanna, are essential, as Altaria will lose a quarter of its health if it switches into Stealth Rock.
    ·Even with Earthquake, Steel-types still somewhat trouble Altaria, especially Bronzor, so Steel-type checks, such as Magmortar and Hitmonchan, are very helpful.
    ·Hazards can help Altaria net K.Os that it could not normally. Some Hazard setters include Archeops, Piloswine, and Regirock.
    ·Pokemon that benefit from Grass-types being removed, such as Poliwrath and Lanturn, make excellent teammates.
    ·Finally, wallbreakers, such as Primeape and Alolan Raichu, help break down the opposing team. Primeape can destroy the Ice-types that threaten Altaria, while Alolan Raichu can
    destroy most physical walls. Alolan Raichu in particular can recover momentum lost by
    Altaria switching out to activate Natural Cure by using Volt Switch.




    (SET 2) Defensive
    Name: Defensive
    Move 1: Roost
    Move 2: Flamethrower
    Move 3: Toxic
    Move 4: Heal Bell / Roar
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Bold
    EVs: 248 HP / 164 Def / 96 Spe

    (SET Comments)
    --------------------
    --------------------
    Moves
    --------------------
    --------------------
    ·Roost heals Altaria's HP by 50%, which is essential to keeping it healthy.
    ·Flamethrower hits Steel-types, like Ferroseed, and Grass-types, like Lilligant and Simisage, allowing Altaria to beat them more easily.
    ·Toxic will chip away at the opposing Pokemon, while also putting the opposing Pokemon on a timer, which can be devastating for most defensive Pokemon.
    ·Heal Bell cures Altaria and its teammates of status, which is especially helpful for defensive teams. Roar blocks set up attempts from Pokemon like Lilligant, who like to try to take advantage of how passive Altaria is, and can rack up hazard damage.

    (SET Details)
    ----------------------
    ----------------------
    · Natural Cure removes status from Altaria when it switches out, which aids it in staying healthy.
    · Leftovers are run to give Altaria passive recovery, increasing its survivability.
    ·Yache Berry could be run to stomach one Ice-type attack, but Altaria will miss the passive recovery that leftovers provide.
    ·248 HP and 164 Defense EVs are used to increase Altaria's bulk significantly, while 96 Speed is run to outspeed base 60 speed Pokemon, especially Abomasnow, on whom Flamethrower is a guaranteed K.O with Stealth Rock and a very slight amount of prior damage.


    (Usage Tips)
    ------------------
    ------------------
    ·Altaria is best used to check Fighting-, Fire-, and Grass-types.
    ·Toxic can cripple many different Pokemon, but be wary of Pokemon with Guts, like Gurrdur, as they don't mind status whatsoever. ·Altaria can absorb status if necessary, due to Natural Cure. However, this can give free turns to the opponent.
    ·If Roar is not being used, beware of set up sweepers, as the only thing Altaria can really do to them is hit them with Toxic.
    ·Altaria should use Roost on its free turns to keep itself healthy.

    (Team Options)
    --------------------
    --------------------
    ·Ice-type checks are required, due to Altaria's devastating 4x weakness to Ice. Good Ice-type checks include Magmortar, Hitmonchan, and Gurrdur. Hitmonchan even has the added bonus of being able to remove hazards with Rapid Spin.
    ·Teammates that appreciate status being removed, such as Absol and Abomasnow, make good partners.
    ·Hazard removal is essential for Altaria, due to its weakness to Stealth Rock. Good hazard removers include Komala, Skuntank, Swanna, Prinplup, and many others.
    ·An answer to Hitmonchan is useful, as it typically carries Ice Punch, which can OHKO Altaria.

    (Other Options)
    ------------------
    ------------------
    ·A Special attacking set can surprise Altaria's checks, and deal heavy damage. However, such a set requires Life Orb to do any major damage, which causes Altaria to be worn down very quickly. The set is also outclassed by the other three Dragon-type special attackers in the tier, Alolan Exeggutor, Drampa, and Guzzlord.
    ·Iron Tail can be used to hit Fairy-types, but Earthquake is much more reliable and has better neutral coverage.
    ·Rest can be used, as Altaria can utilize Natural Cure to remove its sleep status. However, the opponent can capitalize on Altaria's need to switch after using Rest.
    ·Cloud Nine could be used to check dangerous weather sweepers, such as Charizard and Ludicolo, but Natural Cure is one of the main reasons to use Altaria, making Cloud Nine completely outclassed on Altaria.
    ·Perish Song can can be used to force out many different Pokemon, but Roar is generally better, as Altaria will be put on a timer as well as the opposing Pokemon. The opponent can take advantage of this and switch in a check to whatever they predict will be sent out.
    ·A specially defensive set could be run to better check strong special attackers, like Charizard and Magmortar. It also has the utility of beating special Skuntank, along with other threats.
    ·Steelium Z can be used alongside Iron Tail to nuke Fairy-types, but has very little use outside of that.
    (Checks and Counters)
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    **Ice-types and Ice-type coverage**: Due to Altaria's 4x weakness to Ice, it will get decimated by any reasonably strong Ice-type move. Piloswine in particular can use Ice Shard to revenge kill Altaria. Yache Berry alleviates both of these to an extent, however.

    **Steel-types**: Steel-types resist Altaria's main STAB, and can either set up hazards, or heavily damage Altaria. However, most Steel-types will have to eat a possibly boosted Earthquake from the the Dragon Dance set, or a Flamethrower from the defensive set, which can inflict serious damage. Bronzor, however, is immune to Earthquake and doesn't take much damage from Flamethrower, leaving Altaria Hard walled by it.

    **Fairy-types**: Fairy-types are immune to Altaria's main STAB, and can be either force Altaria out, gaining momentum, or just outright K.O Altaria. Granbull in particular can lower Altaria's Attack with Intimidate, rendering it useless until it switches out. They will have to be wary of Altaria carrying Iron Tail, although the move is pretty rare.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017 at 1:54 PM
  2. Taskr

    Taskr

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Messages:
    244
    Not QC but
    • I'd put Dragonium Z as the first item as thats probably the most viable on DD alt
    • When taking about yache you could mention Piloswine's Ice Shard specifically
    • Mention Specially Defensive in other options or even make it the standard as it's better for taking on fire types like magmortar or zard
    • mention in team options that you need something to take on hitmonchan as they tend to run ice punch
    Solar Flare likes this.
  3. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

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    Alright, thanks taskr, I'll make the changes
    Solar Flare likes this.
  4. TJ

    TJ :thinking:
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    am Check

    Suggestions (open)

    • "·Access to Earthquake means that Altaria isn't walled by Steel-types (excluding Bronzor)." Ferroseed also beats DD Altaria
    • "·Even after a boost from Dragon Dance, Altaria is still able to be revenge killed by fast scarfers, like Mr.Mime. It also lacks power to a degree, and fails to pick up certain K.Os. even with a boost." I dont think Musharna is the best example since defensive altaria can have roar/toxic or haze
    • "Dragon Dance is the obligatory set-up move, allowing Altaria to sweep." maybe rephrase this to attempt a sweep since its rather weak even at +1 atk and its also revenge killed easy
    • "·Earthquake allows Altaria to hit Steel-types, as they resist Dragon Claw / Outrage." List examples
    • "· Dragon Claw is the preferred STAB move, hitting most of the tier for neutral damage while still hitting decently hard" also add that it has no drawbacks compared to outrage
    • "·Natural Cure removes status from Altaria when it switches out, giving it multiple chances to sweep." this isnt really true. natural cure, cures status which helps it longterm
    • "However, Altaria can set up mid-game to wallbreak and force switches." what wall does it break? altaria is a sweeper not a wall breaker
    • "Hazard removers, such as Komala and Swanna, are essential, as Altaria will lose a quarter of its health if it
    • switches into Stealth Rock." I think you should list some better hazard control
    • "·Hazards can help Altaria net K.Os that it could not normally. Some Hazard setters include Archeops, Crustle, and
      Regirock." Crustle is a bad example imo. instead maybe say ferroseed?
    • "·Finally, wallbreakers, such as Primeape and Alolan Raichu, help break down the opposing team, helping Altaria
      sweep." Name something that primeape and alolan raichu break for altaria
    • "Move 4: Heal Bell / Haze" I think heal bell is needed almost 100%. slash toxic with haze and add roar imo
    • "·Toxic will chip away at the opposing Pokemon, while also putting the opposing Pokemon on a timer, which can be devastating for most defensive Pokemon." List examples
    • "·Scouting for Ice-type coverage is essential, as almost any Ice-type move will be deadly to Altaria." I think this is rather obvious
    • "·Teammates that appreciate status being removed, such as Absol and Kangaskhan, make good partners." Kangaskan can run facade so i think you should add another example
    • "·Set-up sweepers appreciate status being removed, since Poison, Burn, and Paralysis are crippling to offensive Pokemon." you said this above
    • "Cotton Guard could be used on the Defensive set to allow Altaria to work much more reliably as a wall, but it will sorely miss whichever move is given up in place of Cotton Guard." I dont think cottom guard altaria is viable
    • Also, the analysis format seems to be off look at this for reference http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...ons-read-before-posting.3588426/#post-7113521
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  5. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

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    I appreciate the suggestions TJ, I'll add them. Edit: should I remove the point about scouting for Ice-type coverage, or should I rewrite it?
  6. TJ

    TJ :thinking:
    is a Tiering Contributor

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    I would remove it just cuz its super obvious
  7. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

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    Sep 10, 2017
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    Alright, thank you, TJ
  8. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Messages:
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  9. Twix

    Twix chill out
    is a Contributor to Smogon

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    Messages:
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    yeah dude unfortunately your formatting is still off, here's the Smogon Approved™ analysis formatting:
    format (open)

    [OVERVIEW]

    Generalize what the Pokemon does in the metagame and as a whole and why you should or shouldn't consider using it on your teams. See this thread for more tips.

    [SET]
    name: SET NAME
    move 1:
    move 2:
    move 3:
    move 4:
    item:
    ability:
    nature:
    evs:

    [SET COMMENTS]
    Moves
    ========

    Describe what the moves on the set do.

    Set Details
    ========

    Describe the other aspects of the set such as what the EVs do and nature/item.

    Usage Tips
    ========

    Describe how to use the Pokemon in question.

    Team Options
    ========

    Describe some teammates that would be a good idea to pair with this Pokemon.

    [STRATEGY COMMENTS]
    Other Options
    =============

    List some options for the Pokemon user that are plausible but not always recommended due to either being not consistent enough or too outclassed by other Pokemon in the metagame.

    Checks and Counters
    ===================

    **Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.

    **Insert Threat Here**: Describe why the Pokemon is a threat.

    The main reason that the formatting is important is it is easier for the mods to submit it online without having to manually change it themselves.
  10. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

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    Thanks for the advice, Twix. By the way, are all the lowercase letters in the example required to be lowercase, or is it just for convenience? Also, what are those dash marks, and how do you format them so close together?
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017 at 12:54 PM
  11. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
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    Update: I am going to paste the analysis into a pastebin, and then edit the current analysis posted into the correct format.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017 at 3:40 PM
  12. Megazard

    Megazard Practically Useless
    is a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributor
    Moderator

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    After review, the QC team has decided that the only altaria set warranting a full set is specially defensive. Offensive is just really weak and hard to get going in this meta, and phys def doesn't perform as well when the fighting types actually have good coverage for it and can wear it down pretty easily. Spdef is the only niche it has to beat Magmortar and Charizard (also other things but mostly those) since nothing does that quite like Altaria can. Sorry the set change came so late after you've worked quite a bit on other sets, but this is going to have to change. Also this still doesn't follow the analysis template, I recommend copy pasting the template into the reply and then filling it in.

    Name: Specially Defensive
    Move 1: Flamethrower
    Move 2: Roost
    Move 3: Toxic
    Move 4: Haze / Roar
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Natural Cure
    Nature: Calm
    EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe

    should all be fairly self-explanatory
  13. Lakeredman

    Lakeredman

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    Thank you for the info, Zard. I just wish it came sooner, but the past is the past, I suppose. I'll get to work on the new analysis right away.

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