Altaria (Update) [QC 2/3]

Discussion in 'Locked / Outdated Analyses' started by Dat Blast, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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    Just posting the sets for now, but I need some feedback on a few of them!
    [​IMG]
    Cloud 69

    [Overview]
    • Looks solid at first glance, but has many flaws that prevent it from being effective
    • Great bulk hindered by weaknesses to Rock/Ice
    • Competition from Fraxure/Dragonair as a DD user (Fraxure is stronger, Dragonair has Espeed + isn't SR weak)
    • Access to Lefties, Heal Bell, and Roost give it some tools over other DD users
    • Main role is that of a special attacker, separates it from other Dragons
    • Strong moves like Draco make up for its low offensive stats
    • Still, Altaria isn't that great, as its weaknesses can often get in the way of its strengths
    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Rest
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Altaria's best set, uses the power of Draco Meteor to dent the majority of the tier
    • Uses its good natural bulk to switch in, then lets loose with strong attacks
    • Draco hits hard, especially w/ Specs attached + the lack of Steels in NU
    • Fire Blast hurts Steels, mostly Metang who is 2HKOed
    • Dragon Pulse is mainly for late-game, cleaning up weakened teams w/o Draco's SpA drops
    • Rest looks weird on a Specs set, but works thanks to Natural Cure
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • Modest nature to maximize power; still outspeeds everything it needs to
    • Needs Modest to 2HKO Missy after rocks and OHKO Samurott
    • HP Ground can hit Probopass/Bastiodon harder, but fails to 2HKO Metang who's more important
    • Cloud Nine can help to check Ludicolo in rain, but Natural Cure is generally more useful
    • LO > Specs is viable, and lets you use Roost > Rest, but the loss of power is noticeable
    • Steels have great synergy and set up SR
    • Fightings break down special walls for Taria to clean up
    • Sawk in particular can help prevent SR thanks to Mold Breaker
    • SD Samurott and SmashCosta are good partners, as they synergize well and enjoy Taria's ability to break down physical walls
    [SET]
    name: Bulky Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Dragon Claw
    move 4: Substitute / Heal Bell
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe

    [SET COMMENTS]
    • Mostly outclassed as a DD user, but still has some tricks up its sleeve
    • Isn't forced to use Eviolite like Fraxure/Dragonair, has Heal Bell to support its team, and Roost for reliable recovery
    • DD boosts Taria's low Attack and meh Speed to slowly become a threat
    • Roost for recovery, so you can set up more
    • Dragon Claw is most reliable STAB, chosen over Outrage b/c Outrage locks you in/confuses you
    • Sub shields you from status/revenge killing, letting Taria boost more efficiently
    • Heal Bell is less reliable, but also shields from status while also letting you support your team
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
    • 64 Spe outspeeds base 95s after a boost, and outspeeds Adamant max Speed Torty before a boost
    • The rest buffs up special bulk, so Taria can set up easier against special threats
    • More offensive spreads are outclassed by Fraxure
    • Safeguard is another way to prevent status, but outclassed by Sub/Heal Bell
    • EQ gets great coverage, but there's no room
    • Toxic lets you set up on walls while whittling them down, but there's still no room
    • Because of that, T-Spikes support is awesome, so Garbodor, Roselia, and Scolipede are good partners
    • Struggles greatly against Rock-types, so partners that can beat them are nice
    • Alomomola handles Rock-types easily, provides Wish + Toxic support
    • Wartortle is a decent partner on a stall team, spinning away SR while providing good synergy/dealing w/ Rock-types
    • Special Samurott is a more offensive partner that deals w/ Rock-types + Metang
    • Can work on bulkier teams as a win condition
    [Other Options]
    • Support set, but it sucks and is SR weak
    • Bulky DD still checks special threats while being able to pose as threat
    • CB, but it's outclassed and worse than Specs since Outrage locks you into it
    • Mixed attacker, but Taria is too weak
    • Roar on Bulky DD, but leaves you more vulnerable to status
    • Gimmicky Draco + Haze/Power Swap combo is fun, but hard to pull off
    • Cotton Guard makes you basically impenetrable on the physical side, but still leaves you vulnerable to Ice Beam
    • Can work decently w/ DD, letting Taria take more hits and set up
    • Agility is outdone by DD since it boosts Taria's bad Attack
    • Tailwind for support, but outclassed by stronger mons like Braviary/Charizard
    • Sets up rain and sun, but other mons do it better
    • Finally, Pursuit for Haunter, but he can live it
    [Checks and Counters]
    • Different counters depending on the set
    • Special walls like Licky/Audino beat Specs, while physical walls such as Tangela/Regirock beat DD
    • Regice is a good counter to both sets, as it tanks anything and destroys it w/ Ice Beam
    • Basically anything w/ Ice-type coverage can check it, such as Jynx, Water-types, and Electric-types
    • Rock-types are great answers; Regirock can take a Draco and KO w/ Stone Edge, while Golem can break Subs w/ Rock Blast
    • Steel-types only fear Fire Blast/the occasional Ground-type coverage move
    • Low offensive stats can be easily preyed on, as well as -2 SpA from Draco
    • Can become setup fodder for stuff like Mushy/Braviary, who can take a hit and heal off the damage
    • Weak to SR/switches out a lot after using Draco, which you can use to your advantage
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2013
  2. Treecko

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    I've been using the Bulky Dragon Dance set a lot lately, and it's been great on my stall team as both a specially bulky check to a lot of different Pokemon, a Heal Bell supporter to open up room for Misdreavus (and Audino if you're running it, but my team in particular doesn't have it) to run other moves, and a win condition. Bulky Dragon Dance should look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Bulky Dragon Dance
    move 1: Dragon Dance
    move 2: Roost
    move 3: Dragon Claw
    move 4: Heal Bell / Safeguard
    item: Leftovers
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Careful
    evs: 248 HP / 196 SpD / 64 Spe

    Heal Bell allows Altaria to support its team and heal itself from status, but Safeguard makes it easier for Altaria to set up because it prevents it from being statused for five turns (while Heal Bell only has 8 PP, so something like Toxic Metang can easily stall you out). If your Speed EVs let you do something that mine don't, let me know, but 64 Speed EVs let Altaria outspeed base 95 Speed Pokemon after one Dragon Dance. Because you can't outspeed Choice Scarf base 95 Speed Pokemon at +2 without significant Speed investment, it doesn't really matter anyways.

    The other two sets seem a bit mediocre to me. I would much rather use Fraxure as an offensive Dragon Dance user. Support could be ok, but I don't think I would ever really use it. Because I haven't used it, I'll leave it up to the other QC members on whether or not it should stay. The two you have right now are both good though.
  3. ebeast

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    On Specs I would like the set to look like this:

    [SET]
    name: Choice Specs
    move 1: Draco Meteor
    move 2: Fire Blast
    move 3: Dragon Pulse
    move 4: Rest
    item: Choice Specs
    ability: Natural Cure
    nature: Modest
    evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

    HP Ground in AC because Probopass and Bastiodon aren't as common as Metang is (1850 stats wise) and Dragon Pulse is very useful for when you don't need to the power of Draco and just want to clean up.

    On Bulky DD have Substitute instead of Safeguard. Sub is simply better since you avoid status + can take a free hit and can completely set up on things like Roselia and Alomomola. (Alo can't ever hope to break the Sub and Rose Sludge Bomb does 24% max :]) I would also have Sub before Heal Bell because avoiding being revenge killed and setting up on common things like those is very nice. Heal Bell won't last forever, but being able to help out the team as well is still useful.

    As for the Support set, I really just don't like it. It doesn't really wall Water-types since almost all of them carry an Ice-type attack, it has a Stealth Rock weakness, and the biggest flaw of all: It just sits there doing nothing. The only thing it really has going for it is the combination of Heal Bell + Roar, but the main teams that actually need this (Stall/Defensive) have much better options than Altaria. 1 Heal Bell/Aroma mon that actually walls things and has other utility (Missy, Audino, Musharna, Meganium) + 1 phazer that also actually wall things and still has other utility (Bastiodon, Mandibuzz, Missy, Zweilous) are all better than having a Pokemon with Heal Bell + phazing, but doesn't wall much and has little utility. Besides, the Bulky DD set has similar special bulk, can still use Heal Bell effectively, and is capable of actually threatening teams. For this reason I don't see why Support should be anywhere other than OO.
  4. Treecko

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    Yeah, I suppose Substitute is fine over Safeguard and slashed before Heal Bell. The support from Heal Bell is huge for my team, but on non-stall teams, I'd probably rather use Sub. Also agreeing with everything else.
  5. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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    Alright, made all the changes. I'll update this when I'm done!
  6. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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    Well, this took forever, but it's finally ready for QC!
  7. ebeast

    ebeast she's probably sexting nprtprt
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    [Additional Comments] (Specs)
    When talking about Fighting-types you can also mention that Sawk specifically can also prevent Stealth Rock thanks to Mold Breaker.

    [Additional Comments] (Bulky DD)
    When talking about partners add special Samurott here. It deals well with Rock-types as well and also poops on Metang who is immune to Toxic Spikes unlike Rock-types.

    Solid stuff @Dat Blast QC Approved 1/3
  8. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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  9. Treecko

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    [Overview]
    • Move the mention of Altaria's niches over other Dragon Dance users directly after you talk about how it's mostly outclassed by them. It will flow better this way, and it quickly clarifies that while Altaria is mostly outclassed as a Dragon Dance sweeper, it does have specific niches over the others.
    [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] (Dragon Dance)
    • Mention EQ for Steel-types and that there's usually not much room for it.
    • Torty ?_? If it's Torterra, it outspeeds it without any Speed investment whatsoever. Oh, no, it's max Adamant max Speed. Specifically state that it outspeeds Adamant max Speed Torterra.
    [Other Options]
    • Specially defensive Cotton Guard + DD is pretty gimmicky, but it's honestly not that bad. You can give it a brief shoutout when you mention Cotton Guard.
    Good work.
    QC Approved 2/3
  10. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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    K, I'll write this up soon.
  11. ebeast

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  12. Dat Blast

    Dat Blast Just roll with it
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    Yeah I'll probably have to give this one up, I got like nothing done with the writeup :(. If anyone wants to take this over feel free to.

    #john
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  13. Celever

    Celever

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    I'll take it over if that's OK! ^_^
  14. Raseri

    Raseri wut
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    apparently this was never moved to L&O :o

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