1. Welcome to Smogon! Check out the Smogon Starters Hangout for everything you need to know about starting out in the community. Don't forget to introduce yourself in the Introduction and Hangout Thread, too!
  2. Welcome to Smogon Forums! Please take a minute to read the rules.

Always wear protection!

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by JumpMan23Swag, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. JumpMan23Swag

    JumpMan23Swag

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Okay so this team has gone through a lot since i first started on it, it has had many various changes and has been pretty succesful. Ill tell you right now the biggest threats to this team are actually tentacruel and jellicent. I cant really touch either with the whole team especially if jellicent has taunt and toxic. Anyway The basis of this team is an all out stall team, get up my toxic spikes and just stall for as long i can and slowing kill the enemy. My team has come to have 5 pokemon with protection (hence the title name) it didnt always have so many pokemon with protection but i ended up giving it to most. Im more than happy to change this move on any pokemon if someone shows me how it can better help the team. This is actually my first stall team of any type, semi or full stall, so that is why it might not be quite as solid as some teams i would create. Anyway thanks in advance for your help and with out further aduei....

    The Team
    [​IMG]

    How It Came To Be
    Show Hide

    [pimg]477[/pimg]
    It started out with gliscor, my favorite pokemon of all time since he was made, and one of the best stalling pokemon in the game at the moment. So i figured i would build my stall team around him. I obviously knew he would need some counter parts to help him with his chores of walling things.

    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg]
    Next i added forretress. A great spinner and absorbs gliscors ice weakness like its nothing. He also gave me toxic spikes and my stealth rocks that i knew i would need for a stall team. At this point i see a fire weakness which I address after adding the next poke to coincide with gliscors physical defenses...

    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]242[/pimg]
    I added blissey, a classic staller and the best specially defensive wall to ever be in a pokemon game. This thing takes pretty much anything the opponent wants to throw at it and heals it off while laughing in their face.

    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]242[/pimg][pimg]490[/pimg]
    Next up was a heatran who could take the fire attacks and ice attacks while playing a amazing roll ins tall with the torment tran set. This team was the first time i even tried to use torment tran and i quickly fell in liove with this set. It is now one of my favorite sets in all of pokemon, while i probably wont use it on most teams i still love it.

    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]242[/pimg][pimg]490[/pimg][pimg]623[/pimg]
    Jellicent just seemed like it was made for my team. I needed a spin blocker and something to take fighting hits and water. So what better than a jellicent? None to be honest has the ability to take no damage at all from both fighting and water attacks. Plus it cant be hit by rapid spin.

    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]242[/pimg][pimg]490[/pimg][pimg]623[/pimg][pimg]227[/pimg]
    Last skarm just gave me those spikes and a whirl wind user, and fixed up some synergy a little bit.


    The Changes That Have Been Made
    Show Hide

    So far all changes have just been a couple moves changed in a moveset, and early pokemon changes that arent worth noting. I will add the changes i make from suggestions here, and i will also update it in the "Team In Depth" section.

    Edit:
    Gliscor changed from Aerial ace to ice fang. Changed EVS to make bulkier.
    Jellicent changed from protect to Will-O-Wisp and changed scald out for shadow ball. And also git a change in evs.


    Importable
    Show Hide

    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Aerial Ace
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake


    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball


    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Wish


    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Scald


    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Torment
    - Lava Plume


    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Protect
    - Roost
    - Spikes



    The Team In Depth


    [​IMG]
    Gliscor (F) @ Toxic Orb
    Trait: Poison Heal
    EVs: 244 HP / 44 Def / 220 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Aerial Ace
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake

    Role
    Gliscors role is rather obvious to be honest. What stall team wouldnt have a gliscor. Gliscor is just honestly the best staller in the game right now in my opinion, while he has his counters and checks he is a great pokemon and can stop or stall ouot many others with relative ease. The evs are pretty standard, the hp and def to give me bulk and the speed so i outspeed certain things. Poison heal of course with the toxic orb is more than perfect for stall. Aerial ace is a 100% accuracy move never can miss and gives me another way of attacking other than earthquake, which is obviously meant for a stab attack just to get damage while im stalling out the enemy. Last toxic is there just to get my toxic on anything that wouldnt be toxiced from the toxic spikes, although i think this is quite redundant as it doesent apply to many OU threats anyway other than the likes of something like rotom, or maybe like salamence or dragonite but other than that, thats about it. So im very flexible with changing that move so any suggestions ill gladly try immediatly. In conclusion though this set is just a absolute beast and stalls out so many things and forces all kinds of switches which racks up my hazard damages.



    [​IMG]
    Forretress (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 176 Def / 80 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Rapid Spin
    - Toxic Spikes
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball

    Role
    What this guy can do is unmatchable by pretty much any other pokemon. Ferrothorn may be the closest, but this thing can lay any entry hazard, i chose to give him Tspikes and the stealth rocks which ill explain this chose shortly, and he also has the ability to rapid spin and tank so many things in the game with his great defensive stats. Now of course he has the rapid spin, but the toxic spikes and stealth rocks may need to be explained. Well toxic spikes i rather standard so thats just there for that reason its toxic spikes nothing else. Stealth rocks however you may be wondering why im not running it on any other pokemon. i tried running it on every pokemon on my team except jellicent because it cant learn it. Forretress ended up being the most effective but the others i didnt test for too long except blissey. So i ended up putting the stealth rocks on this wonderful pokemon. Gyro ball is also standard as its just a form of an attack, and it works great on terrakions.

    [​IMG]


    Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Seismic Toss
    - Ice Beam
    - Protect
    - Wish

    Role
    Blissey is kinda similar to gliscor as in its pretty much essential for all stall teams. Its kinda like glilscors counter part as it can take any spatt while gliscor can take pretty much any physical attack. just these 2 pokemon alone often end up stalling out the entire opposing team. You probably saw my blissey set and maybe chuckled some as you saw a ice beam on there? Well its not as crazy as it seems. Its my best way of dealing with gliscor. It does 76.8% - 91.5% on a standard gliscor. But its not only used for gliscors as it fools dragons likme dnite or salamence who think they have an easy set up and a quick ice beam will do 78.5% - 93.1% on offensive DD mence, and 66.9% - 79.3% on a offensive DD dnite (not if its at full health with multiscale). Also hits a few others but i couldnt find a 5th gen calculator so i only had access to 4th gen calculations. So in summary this ice beam really i feel is just great and i run it over toxic for the same reasons i dont like toxic on gliscor, it doesent really do too much. While toxic is better on blissey because it can stay in with rotoms its still rather useless in my opinion. One thing i left oout about ice beam is i am able to hit gengars, while they arent the most common thing i can still hit them if they do happen to show up on a team. The rest of the set should be pretty basic to anyone, i mean who doesent know about a blissey? Obvious wish support and protect stalls and stoss just for that 100 damage on anything. excluding ghost types that is.


    [​IMG]

    Jellicent (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Water Absorb
    EVs: 248 HP / 176 Def / 84 Spd
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Protect
    - Taunt
    - Recover
    - Scald

    Role
    The main role of jellicent on this team is a spin blocker and a water sponge. Other than that i feel like this is a worthless pokemon that doesent deserve any recognition. Honestly i never find myself using this pokemon to stall anything out, to do any damage, to stop anything, and only occasionaly do i actually use it to counter something when i have such great physical and special sponges on the team. Now i dont mean to offend anyone who just feels this is a amazing pokemon, but i just dont see too much worth in it. Now dont get me wrong it does have its moments where i may get a nice little stall here or there with it. But it just isnt the best, by far the least valuable poke on the squad. Its moves may be the reason im not finding success with it? I dont know, i figured why run willo wisp/ twave if the whole bases of the team is toxic stalling everything. So i chose protect which is actually something i find it doing right is getting key protects and often scouting the form of rotom-w the opponent is running. Recover just heals me and taunt is meant for i dont know really... blisseys and ferrothorns or maybe a hippowdon. And scald the lost move, just an attack which does around 50% on a standard gliscor, which dont get me wrong thats pretty decent but how they work with their constant protecting and if they run toxic, they outstall jellicent 90% of the time. But who knows maybe im jsut playing the pokemon wrong and its my fault. either way enless suggested otherwise the pokemon will stay on the team just abosrbing fighting, normal, and water attacks.

    [​IMG]


    Heatran (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Flash Fire
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Substitute
    - Protect
    - Torment
    - Lava Plume

    Role
    Annoy the shit out of everything and anything. I mean i LOVE this pokemon. You should see some of the pp stalls ive had with things. CM pokemon i just always end up having a pp war with and i always win. Infact the last game i played with this team i was in a pp war with a CM latias with CM recover HP fire and dragon pulse, and heatran came out the victor. Really this set can make heatrans normal counters or checks flee in fear and just continuosly rack up the damage with the entry hazards. While this set has its flaws i think its perks make it way worth the slot on the team. Its your normal torment tran just pestering the enemy. I cant say enough about how much i really do enjoy this pokemon on the team, while id hate to see it leave, though if it needs to be done to better the team i am more than happy of changing this guy out. But with all that said on a final note, this pokemon is just stupendous.

    [​IMG]

    Skarmory (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Sturdy
    EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spd
    Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
    - Whirlwind
    - Protect
    - Roost
    - Spikes

    Role
    Did i save the best for last? Not exactly, but i think its still a very important pokemon who plays a immensly important role on the team. Skarmory can take just about any physical attack and roost off the damage, combined with whirlwind which allows me to keep on racking up the hazard damage it also allows me to stop things who have stat boosts up. You might be wondering why i dont have brave bird? Well because really i never use brave bird and if i consider it, its not gonna do much damage anyway.. so i figured why use bravebird when i can add protect instead. I am definitly considering to switch it with possibly toxic though. Or even rocks and have some flexibility with forretress and maybe even be able to switch him to a different pokemon such as tentacruel and change jellicent. Other than that its just your normal skarmory doing work as usual. Its actually more than likely the glue to the team as it stops so many sweepers and sets up my vital spikes while giving me key resistances. This pokemon is just a wonderful staller and im glad i could make him the final edition to this stall team

    I hope you all enjoyed it, So thanks in advance even though im sure ill thank you after you post a tip but i just can never say thank you enough! All constructive critisism is welcome.

    One Final Look
    [pimg]477[/pimg][pimg]205[/pimg][pimg]242[/pimg][pimg]623[/pimg][pimg]490[/pimg][pimg]227[/pimg]
  2. JumpMan23Swag

    JumpMan23Swag

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Reserved for threat list
    For now until i make a formal threat list later today i will just tell you Tentacruel and jellicent are the biggest problems i have found, and a bit of a problem with gyrados... really any bulky water types if i havent gotten up my Tspikes yet.
  3. Electrolyte

    Electrolyte Fastest man alive
    is an official Team Rateris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    2,047
    Cool team man,

    Great stall team. Your defensive core is quite solid, and you've got a lot of major offensive covered. Great job. To help, I think just some minor moveset changes would suffice- because there aren't too many changes that one could make without disturbing your strategy.

    Your own Gliscor has a bit of trouble getting past opposing Gliscors and is in danger of falling to its own strategy. Aerial Ace is not really the best coverage move you could give it, as the accuracy boost doesn't really account to much. I would use Ice Fang instead, to hit opposing Gliscor, Landorus, Dragonite, and Salamence hard. Aerial Ace only hits Breloom and bug types harder, neither of which Toxic+Ice Fang won't handle either. Your spread also looks a bit weird; there really is no point in investing in so much speed, as you're only speed creeping the Uber set. I think 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 Spe Impish is better, as it gives you a lot more bulk.

    Jellicent also looks a bit weird. Protect doesn't do much for it, as you don't carry any status, nor do you have any form of hindering weather. I would recommend Wil-O-Wisp instead, to cripple physical attackers and give Gliscor a much easier time. WiloWisp also allows you to cripple Tentacruel, and erase its net HP gain in Rain- so that it's easier for your team mates to take it down. With WoW, Scald can be let go- and I think Shadow Ball would perform better in its place. Shadow ball hits things for the same power as Scald, and hits Lati@s and Celebi harder. Dropping SpDef is also fun as well, as it allows you to actually sport an offensive presence, instead of sitting there and just being 'useless'. Shadow Ball hits Tentacruel as well. Finally, it looks as if your Jellicent is a bit too fast as well. You're running the speed of the Specs set, and since you don't have Specs, I think you should take it down a notch- down to 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe Impish. You don't need to be that fast to do what Jellicent has to do- which is basically just preventing Ferrothorn and Forretress from setting up. In exchange for the speed, you get bulk.

    Just one final nitpick, I would recommend Brave Bird instead of Protect on Skarmory. Brave Bird lets you beat Fighting types, instead of Whirlwinding them away and letting them come back again. Since Gliscor lost its Aerial Ace, Skarmory should take over Flying type coverage. Besides, it hits much harder.

    It looks good. I hope I helped!
  4. JumpMan23Swag

    JumpMan23Swag

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    Thanks for these nice suggestions man. I meant to change my evs on gliscor and jellicent a while ago but i guess i just forgot.. ill definitly be doing that! I suppose the Will-O-Wisp would work a bit better on my jellicent and the shadow ball gives me a little bit better choice of a move and a way to hit opposing jellicent. Lastly i guess ill give brave bird another chance, oh and im definitly going with the ice fang on gliscor! Once again thanks for the ideas great rate man.
  5. Harsha

    Harsha Rest In Beats
    is an official Team Rateris a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Tutor Alumnusis a Site Staff Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
    RMT Co-Leader

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,213
    While stall is a reasonable playstyle, this team doesn't look too well-equipped to deal with many of the major threats in the current metagame. Calm Mind Keldeo walks all over it, especially considering how easy it is to get rid of Toxic Spikes. Also, you have two Steel-types that essentially cover the same threats, albeit they have different roles other than walling, but it still looks fairly redundant. To fix the Keldeo weakness, the easiest change to make is using Latias instead of Blissey. Latias carries good special bulk, but instead of being a sitting duck against most Pokemon, it actually packs some offense. A set with Leftovers and a spread of 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe and a Timid nature would work well because it allows you to revenge kill Keldeo. I'd use a moveset of Psyshock, Dragon Pulse, Wish, and Protect to ensure you have coverage and keep your Wish pass.

    As far as Forretress goes, I don't think you really seem to have enough time to put down Toxic Spikes in this offensive metagame littered with good spinners and decent Poison-types. However, I think it's a better choice on your team than Skarmory because you already have Gliscor to wall a lot of physical threats. I think switching Spikes over Toxic Spikes on Forretress, using Hidden Power Ice over Stealth Rock (and moving that to Heatran, but that comes later), and using Volt Switch over Gyro Ball with a spread of 252 HP / 224 Def / 32 SpA with a Bold nature would definitely be a more efficient use of Forretress. It generally has the least time to set up hazards because of the lack of offensive pressure that comes with it, so this shouldn't be a problem because Spikes is a less important hazard than Stealth Rock.

    Now instead of using Skarmory, I think you should definitely try using a Choice Scarf Pokemon to ensure that you aren't a sitting duck against most teams. Genesect looks like a good choice because you have Heatran to cover up its Fire weakness, and it gives really good coverage and applies offensive pressure. Like I said before, running Skarmory, Forretress, and Gliscor on the same team is a bit redundant, especially if you're adding defensive Jellicent to the mix. The set with a Choice Scarf a spread of 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and a Naive nature, as well as a moveset of U-turn, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt would be ideal, in my opinion, and this would definitely help against offensive teams.

    On Heatran, I definitely think running a specially defensive set over TormenTran would help out. For one, TormenTran is super predictable once your opponent finds out that you're running this set, so you can't really use it effectively. Additionally, you aren't really getting much out of this other than wasting a slot on Forretress with Stealth Rock. I think a better use of this is using a spread of 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe and a Calm nature and Leftovers. A moveset of Stealth Rock, Lava Plume, Earth Power, and Roar would help out because you can phaze and maintain a bit of offensive pressure because Heatran has a decent punch.

    That was a lot of changing, but don't be turned off by the volume of this post. The changes by themselves are actually not that numerous, but I definitely think this is a solid team. Keep up playing man, I think with these changes you can hammer out a lot of flaws and have a better stall team. Good luck, I hope I helped. By the way, I definitely think you should keep Aerial Ace, it helps a lot against Breloom. Opposing Gliscor are definitely not as big of a threat compared to Breloom.
  6. Princess Bubblegum

    Princess Bubblegum

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Messages:
    2,983
    Hey man, nice traditional stall team you have here, outright on paper, there are few weakness, although it see one pretty massive problem: a serious lack of a secondary special sponge. What I mean by this is very simple: a simple rotom-w, Jolteon, or even magnezone can spam volt switch on Blissey, wear it down, eventually kill it or at the very least forcing you to sack a few pokemon, eventually leading to a sadening late game sweep by some silly special attacker which can otherwise eat the rest of your team. Heatran does very little to stop this as it can go toe to toe with about 3 special attackers: Genesect, Latias, Latios. For example with Blissey gone a defensive Politoed can take out the rest of your team.

    Basically, I suggest you put something like Roserade, Amoonguss, or Celebi on your team. Jellicent is probably the ideal pokemon to switch out as your only losing the ability to spin block. If you want though, it could also be an opportunity to rethink your physical core if you want to have Jellicent still. I will remind you though that if that is the case 5 pokemon are already swallowed up before you even get to decide that pokemon.

    Other than that, I have have some nitpicks.

    Forretress should not have stealth rock, Forretress is a valueable rapid spinner that you can not afford to lose, I suggest you give rocks to Heatran which is a much better lead and you can usually afford to lose if need be to set up rocks. Toxic spikes also suck in this metagame since 3/4 of pokemon on teams are immune or don't care, over then I could suggest you keep stealth rock, but in t-spikes place to have 2 setters (you can never have enough setters of stealth rock) or spikes for a similar idea. You can also use hidden power ice to save your ass against outraging dragons or pain split to never lose to Ferrothorn. All of these are toys to play with on Forretress.

    Blissey - needs - toxic. I don't know what metagame your playing in, but Volcarona will almost always find its way around Heatran either by teammates or HP ground and Volc laughs at your seismic tosses. Toxic also helps a ton against pretty much everything that blissey wants to take on. Flamethrower is something I highly consider over ice beam to to take on Venusaur on sun teams, which with a little dugtrio support, wrecks you. Dugtrio traps Heatran, and Venusaur sucks the health of our Blissey otherwise. Overall, I think a moveset or flamethrower / toxic / siesmic toss / softboiled is much better on Blissey. A ev spread of 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD Bold has the same bulk, but less HP for Venusaur to drain.

    Other than that, I suggest you follow the Electrolites suggestions, which are pretty solid.

    Good luck man.

Users Viewing Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 0)