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American Terrorist

Discussion in 'BW OU Teams' started by Cinco Diablo, Apr 9, 2013.

  1. Cinco Diablo

    Cinco Diablo formerly Dr Ciel

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2012
    Messages:
    1,215
    American Terrorist



    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]Introduction[​IMG]

    Hello, once again Smogon Forums, this is Dr Ciel & Co. with my 5th RMT on these forums and I'm glad that you're here to read it. Now, most of you know me as the creator of The Dawn Of Kyurem Hail RMT that I posted late last year, which turned out to be one of the most successful teams that I have made on these forums. Now, even though my last RMT failed to surpass the success of the last RMT, hopefully, this one will do so. Now, I did have some help from some friends on this RMT, the first being Cool Story Brobat, whom helped me on my previous RMT, and the second one being Black Russian, a cool friend of mine (both of which will help me with the descriptions of the Pokemon later in this RMT). Anyway, this team is build around one of the most underrated threats in the OU metagame in Virizion, a fairly interesting Pokemon to use, but it's talents go unnoticed, with it's Swords Dance set being outclassed by Terrakion, and the Calm Mind Set being outclassed by Keldeo. Now, the team is called American Terrorist, a song by Lupe Fiasco, who, personally, I think everyone should listen to. Just like my last RMT, this is a bulky offense team basewd around wallbreaking with Scizor and Mamoswine, in hopes of setting up a late game sweep with Calm Mind Virizion. Anyways, I'll stop talking right about here. So, sit down, and grab your cup of tea, because this is going to be a long RMT.

    From here on out, Dr Ciels comments will be in Blue, CoolStoryBrobats comments will be in Purple, and Black Russians comments will be in Pink.

    [​IMG]Team At A Glance[​IMG]



    [​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]





    [​IMG]In Depth Look[​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    -----------------------------

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]Verizon[​IMG]
    Verizon (Virizion) @ Life Orb [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock]

    Alright, just as my last RMT started out, this one is starting out with the star of the team, the deadly Calm Mind Virizion. This girl is usually sent in late game when all it's counters are removed and then it will just flat out sweep the opposing team with a single Calm Mind. We went for the straight up 4 / 252 / 252 spread here with a Max Special Attack for maximum attacking Power with Max Speed and a Timid Nature allow it to speed tie with other base 108 Speed Pokemon such as Infernape and Terrakion, while also outspeeding non-scarf Landorus-I, a huge threat to this girl otherwise. Alright, so I'll explain the moveset on this Virizion and explain what the moves do. Calm Mind is the first move on this set and for good reason. Calm Mind helps Virizion bring it's decent base 90 Special Attack to decent levels, allowing it to grab some important KO's. Giga Drain is up next on this set, as it hits so many bulky water Pokemon such as Politoed, Vaporeon and Jellicent. Up next on the set is Focus Blast, which allows Virizion to grab KO's on Ferrothorn, Heatran, Magnezone, Tyranitar, and quite a lot of others. Finally, HP Rock is an interesting option, but it helps us out immensely against Volcarona, while also hitting Thundurus-T, Tornadus-T, Salamence, Dragonite, and a whole lot of other threatening Pokemon.


    ------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]John Stewart[​IMG]
    John Stewart (Lanturn) (M) @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 204 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge
    - Heal Bell


    I know what you're thinking. "Lanturn in OU? LMAO!" And you know what? You're probably right, but you can't deny that this may or may not be the coolest thing you've ever seen. Lanturn was actually my idea; I noticed it had incredibly good synergy with Virizion; Virizon was weak to Flying, Ice, Fire, and Psychic. Lanturn resisted 3 of those types, and had a huge HP stat to tank most Psychic-type attacks. On the other hand, Lanturn was weak to Grass and Ground, which Virizion resisted quite nicely, not to mention the rest of the team. The other selling point was that Lanturn had the ability to utilize some Clerical support with its use of Heal Bell. Lanturn's got some nifty moves for spreading status in Scald and Discharge, which can help by landing a lucky burn or paralysis on the opponent, with Ice Beam to round out the perfect coverage it has, as well as the exploitable Ice-type weakness of...well, actually a good amount of OU Pokemon. Lanturn's huge HP stat can afford it a lot of necessary investment into its defenses to tank some hits as well while it does its job. With 40 HP, 252 Def, and 216 SpDef and Calm nature, it's pretty dope at tanking some special hits and countering the ever-present rain teams that are just everywhere in OU these days. (SN: Did a bit of testing with Water Absorb > Volt Absorb on Lanturn, just for the sake of exploring options, and the fact the team has 2 water weaknesses in Terrakion and Mamoswine. Also was testing Rotom-W over Lanturn, but I'll let the raters handle the judgment on that.)



    ------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]Caesar[​IMG]
    Caesar (Scizor) (M) @ Lum Berry [​IMG]
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Bug Bite

    Ok so SD Scizor, nothing too out of the blue on this pick. After setting up a Swords dance this is guy is a force. Since we had Virizion as our main sweeper we need something to attack on the physical side to make sure things like the blobs out of the way for Verizon to finish things out. We went with the Offensive Swords Dance for pure offense and sweeping power if the situation presents its itself. The EVs allows us to outspeed slower pokemon that can't be taken care of with a Bullet Punch and kill with either Bug Bite or Superpower, which is appropriate. The use of Lum Berry is to heal it for Burns and continue to weaken and clear the path for Virizion to sweep. Scizor also provides priority and scare ward off Terrakion. Overall Scizor has been very reliable in its role nothing to complain here.

    ------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]Melissandre[​IMG]
    Melissandre (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers [​IMG]
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Psyshock
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar

    Alright, so, I know what you may be thinking right now. "Wish Latias? ROFL, guys, why don't you use something better like Jirachi or something? Well, I'll tell you why. Latias ahas some excellent synergy with both Scizor and Virizion, and with it's ability to take down both Terrakion and Keldeo, along with most Dragons, she earns the spot on this team as our Physically Defensive wall. The EV spread may seem weird, but I'll explain it now. The 28 Speed EV's are for outspeeding max Speed Pokemon with base 70 speed such as Timid Politoed and Jolly Breloom, while the rest is placed into bulk to tank some huge hits. Okay, now I'll explain the moveset and discuss what each move does for Latias. The first move up in the set, Wish, helps Latias, as well as the rest of the team in good health, due to Latias' solid 80 Base HP, can provide some huge Wishes for this team, which is absolutely necessary if we need Virizion to sweep, especially late-game. The next move on the set, Psyshock helps us against so many fighting type Pokemon such as Conkeldurr, Terrakion, Latias, Breloom, and a whole lot more. Up next, we have the obligatory STAB move in Dragon Pulse, which provides excellent neutral coverage, hitting dragons for supereffective damage. Finally, the last move, Roar, is used to prevent those setup sweepers from destroying us.



    ------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]H1N1[​IMG]
    H1N1 (Mamoswine) (M) @ Life Orb [​IMG]
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock


    Mamoswine. What more needs to be said? He's dopeness personified. In the form of a huge prehistoric wooly mammoth-pig...thing. I suggested this guy for a number of reasons: One, when building the team, we didn't factor in account for a Stealth Rocker who synergized well with the team, so we looked at some options for a Stealth Rock user, preferably one who had a bit of an offensive presence. Two, things like Salamence, Dragonite, and both formes of Landorus were huge threats to this team so we had to factor in something that could handle some of those guys. Three, though this one is totally optional, having a good physical attacker to back up Scizor would be great when you look at Scizor, whose coverage can only get it so far, and Terrakion, who is always locked into one move with a Choice Scarf despite his good coverage. With a Jolly nature, 252 Atk and 252 Speed, Mamoswine is getting the jump on some things it preys on, namely Jirachi, Breloom, defensive Heatran, and such. Icicle Crash is a strong physical STAB Ice move. Icicle Spear is just as useful but I haven't really looked at it...I mean, it'll ruin Gliscor and Substitute Garchomp's day for sure, but I haven't had any MAJOR problems outside of the former. Earthquake completes Mamoswine's incredibly good STAB Coverage, and hits hard as a truck fully equipped with two huge frozen tusks. Ice Shard is the necessary priority move that makes Mamoswine scary for a huge amount of Pokemon who normally outspeed it, and it does work against all the Dragons and those Ice-weak Pokemon who hang around in OU. Stealth Rock fills the last slot because as I said, our team needed a Stealth Rock user. In practice, I often find myself not getting up Rocks as often, but usually it's due to how much Mamoswine is needed to check certain things on the opponent's team in the long run. However, Stealth Rock is still a vital move every team needs to have, and I really don't feel the need to change it.


    ------------------------------
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]Teriyaki[​IMG]
    Teriyaki (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf [​IMG]
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide

    After all the other Pokemon were chosen we lacked a good revenge killer and a scarfer. After debating for a while we settled on Terrakion. Terrakion on the team has been decent but not great. Nothing special needs to be said about Terrakion, as we are all familiar with and know what it does. It's presence on the team allows us to break down walls and revenge kill with powefull STABs. However, by having Terrakion on the team it creates a fairly large weakness to Scizor, Lati@s. We have debated replacing Terrakion for Scarfed Infernape which sounds ridiculous but it does resist Scizor's main stab moves, can threaten it to out with a Fire move and have some method of hitting Lati@s for decent damage. Making this switch would also add U-Turn which is needed to to keep pressure on the opponent. Since they both are in the same Speed tier there isn't anything that we wouldnt be outspeeding by choosing one over the over. Not really a conventional move to make but we will leave that up to you guys to decide.






    [​IMG]Importable[​IMG]
    (Please keep the nicknames when using the team)
    Code:
    [LEFT]Verizon (Virizion) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Giga Drain
    - Focus Blast
    - Hidden Power [Rock][/LEFT]
     
    [LEFT]John Stewart (Lanturn) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    Shiny: Yes
    EVs: 52 HP / 252 Def / 204 SDef
    Calm Nature
    - Scald
    - Ice Beam
    - Discharge
    - Heal Bell[/LEFT]
     
    [LEFT]Caesar (Scizor) (M) @ Lum Berry
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Bullet Punch
    - Superpower
    - Bug Bite[/LEFT]
     
    [LEFT]Melissandre (Latias) (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 228 Def / 28 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Wish
    - Psyshock
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Roar[/LEFT]
     
    [LEFT]H1N1 (Mamoswine) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Thick Fat
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature
    - Icicle Crash
    - Ice Shard
    - Earthquake
    - Stealth Rock[/LEFT]
     
    [LEFT]Teriyaki (Terrakion) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Jolly Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge
    - X-Scissor
    - Rock Slide[/LEFT]
    


    [​IMG]Conclusion[​IMG]
    Well, we're happy that you made it this far, so congratulations for doing so. I would like to give a huge shoutout to Cool Story Brobat for making this team with me and for the awesome nicknames. Also, I would like to give a shoutout for Black Russian who helped be build this team. Also, I want to give you a shoutout to you guys for reading this RMT. I hope you liked it, so please feel free to rate and please leave a Luvdisc [​IMG].

    [​IMG]Final Glance[​IMG]

    [​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]|[​IMG]
  2. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    Hi Dr Ciel, this is a very original team using some unique pokemon and sets. Taking a short glance at it, since I do not have much time as of now, it seems to synergize solidly enough. Though Scizor seems at first to be a problem, Lanturn can take it on pretty readily, though without Lanturn, you might encounter some problems. This team covers its weaknesses well, quite impressively, but the Scizor problem does seem to be pretty huge. As a consequence, I make the proposal to replace Choice Scarf Terrakion with a Choice Scarf Keldeo. This switch allows you to revenge the same things with the same benchmark speed, but also allows you to resist Bullet Punch and also Water type moves, which you mentioned were a problem. I think this is a relatively simple switch that won't hurt the team synergy, and also provides everything Terrakion does. The set is as follows:

    [​IMG]Keldeo @Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Nature: Timid
    -Hydro Pump
    -Secret Sword
    -Hidden Power Ice
    -Surf


    I'll try to get around to rating this more tomorrow, but overall, this is a really nice team that puts lesser used pokemon to good use.
  3. Lasers

    Lasers

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Great team.. Small suggestions.

    Icicle Spear>>> Icicle Crash. Here's why.

    Spear lets you stop baton pass teams, Multiscale dragonite, focus sashes, magic gaurd alakzam, not to mention just subs as a whole. Also, it has more accuracy than Crash which is more reliable. Spear hits usually 3 times, and 3 hits is just 10 bp less than drop but you get bonus benefits for the trade off. 8/10 You'll be using Ice Shard more anyway, but just give it a try.

    For LAnturn I would try Volt Switch instead of Discharge to keep momentum going, but that's just me. Lanturn is pretty slow, so It will most likely go second, giving your pokes a free switch in, making it easier for Virizion and Scizor set up.
  4. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    712
    I really like that idea, Scizor was quite annoying for this team, which was part of why I tested Infernape a bit. What I also like about Keldeo is that he's not threatened by Landorus-T in the slightest, which is excellent, because that thing is also a major threat to this team, especially the Scarf variant. So I'm definitely gonna give that one a try.


    It's always the little things that matter, right? Volt Switch is probably more useful. I suggested Discharge because I liked the chance of Paralysis, but it never really helped me. And you're correct, having a slow Volt Switch can be very helpful for gaining the advantage. Also, I did not know Icicle Spear was more accurate than Icicle Crash. That alone just sealed the deal for me, lol.

    Thanks, both of you guys for the rates!
  5. Killua kun

    Killua kun

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2012
    Messages:
    43
    Hey man, nice team
    I stopped for a moment to see your spread and I wanted to give you some advice.
    Despite your Virizion possesses hp rock, it will never hit volcarona! because in every hole available volcarona Setup to try on you, and at that point you can not put Virizion, but only Terrakion.
    To listen to me by hp ice to Virizion, otherwise it would go to 345 also lose the speed tie v. Terrakion, very bad thing: '(
    For Lanturn I must say I really like it! but you put it in front rotom-w many times and how they hit it? to discharge? pls put him toxic and you will see some improvement soon.
    For Mamoswine by 29 IV in HP, 1 ps to lose less with each stroke of life orb.
    Hope that help ;)
  6. Revontheus

    Revontheus

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    21
    Hey guys!

    Great team you have there! Like solving some problems can open up even more problems I'm just gonna suggest a few things.
    I agree with the suggestions of Lasers, they don't change almost nothing but make the team better. The suggestion from Dcae is also good but defining which one is better is due to preference. If you want to keep Terrakion I suggest switching Rock Slide with HP Ice to deal with Landorus-T which you said was a big threat.

    I can't think of anything else to improve your team!
    Good luck and Luvdisc'd!

  7. Detective Scruffy

    Detective Scruffy

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2013
    Messages:
    44
    I really like the synergy of your team! Lanturn not only resists boltbeam(with volt absorb) but also is an amazing counter to magnezone who might try and come in on Scizor to trap it. It certainly looks promising.

    Also congratulations on using such original stuff in OU! It definitely needs people like you with fresh ideas to liven up this metagame!

    Luvdic'd <3
  8. Frog

    Frog

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    94


    I see.

    Anyways you are pretty weak to SD scizor, esepcially your own variant. I think replacing lanturn with DD/bulky gyarados could fix your weakness, as well as help with volcarona. It also helps against U-turn landorus I which hurts a lot. The synergy with virizion remains anyways.
  9. jpw234

    jpw234

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Messages:
    114
    Hey Ciel/CSB/BR, this team looks awesome. However as I mentioned in passing on PS I'm slightly worried about Conkeldurr. The standard set with Lefties puts a major hurt on everything you have at +1, which it can grab on Lanturn easily and a bit less easily on Scizor or Mamoswine. With the recovery it gains from Drain Punch it will be quite difficult to kill after a Bulk Up:

    Show Hide

    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 213-252 (75.8 - 89.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 228+ Def Latias: 226-266 (62.08 - 73.07%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 468-552 (144.44 - 170.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 374-440 (115.43 - 135.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Virizion: 280-330 (86.41 - 101.85%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mamoswine: 510-602 (141.27 - 166.75%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 52 HP / 252 Def Lanturn: 234-276 (57.92 - 68.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


    While you have trouble hitting back:
    Show Hide
    0 SpA Lanturn Scald vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 82-97 (21.52 - 25.45%) -- possible 5HKO
    +2 252+ Atk Scizor Superpower vs. +1 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 200-236 (52.49 - 61.94%) -- 98.83% chance to 2HKO
    252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. +1 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 136-162 (35.69 - 42.51%) -- 94.34% chance to 3HKO
    252 Atk Mamoswine Earthquake vs. +1 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 114-135 (29.92 - 35.43%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    252 SpA Virizion Focus Blast vs. 120 HP / 136 SpD Conkeldurr: 180-213 (47.24 - 55.9%) -- 21.48% chance to 2HKO
    0 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. +1 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 132-156 (34.64 - 40.94%) -- 58.08% chance to 3HKO


    Anyway, that doesn't look the best. I know Conkeldurr isn't the most seen threat but it does seem problematic. Unfortunately I can't think of anything to counter him (as he's quite difficult to handle) without messing up a crucial part of your team. I'd like to suggest a Focus Sash Alakazam who I think could provide some nice offensive pressure from the special side of the spectrum but not sure who to replace. Scizor seems the most replaceable, but I leave the adjustments in your more capable and knowledgeable hands.
  10. StrawHatIan

    StrawHatIan

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2013
    Messages:
    13
    Hi people.
    I really like the team you have here, I know it's been said, but props for using some original pokemon in OU. I also know that this has been said, but using Volt Switch over Discharge is probably going to more useful for this team. Lanturn is usually going to move last, so you have a safe switch in to any of your sweepers. Also another suggestion that I have is that you could try to use Stealth Rock Garchomp on this team over Mamoswine. While it doesn't have Mamoswine's Ice-type STAB, Garchomp has the ability to come in too set up rocks again if they are spun off. That's just my two cents but besides that, this is a solid team you have.
  11. Alter

    Alter adjective spaceman
    is a Contributor to Smogonis a Battle Server Moderator
    Mentor

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2013
    Messages:
    654
    Hey there guys,

    I really love this team. One suggestion is that I'd try Hidden Power Ice > Hidden Power Rock on Virizion in order to speed tie with Terrakion and be able to potentially kill it with Giga Drain. Currently you have one less speed than it due to Hidden Power Rock. Great team guys and good luck!
  12. Reymedy

    Reymedy They live and die by my command.
    is a Tutoris an official Team Rateris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2012
    Messages:
    1,420
    Okay, hi, got your request, I don't have much time, so I'll drop a quick rate. Cool team, you know it, definitely interesting to see under used pokemons see some use.

    The threats :

    - Scizor, you mentionned it, no need for me to repeat it. I'll try to work on it.

    - Celebi. I don't know how you kill the pixie. It can kill Scizor since even defensive versions can pack HP Fire, and your Scizor is uninvested in HP/SpD. It kills Mamoswine with Giga Drain, it walls Virizion all day, it comes on Lanturn peacefully, and Latias ain't a threat for Celebi. The offensive set with Nasty Plot sweeps you cleanly, but there is Latias. So, you have a solution, but that's not a really good answer. And anyway, the defensive version will be a bitch for you. I don't talk about X-Scissor locked Terrakion because from the look at your team, anyone would assume that Terrakion is scarfed, thus, you won't get a surprise kill here in my opinion. And it's terrible to be locked into this move. You have some "ways" to beat Celebi, I find them a bit shaky, and the defensive version won't get killed anytime soon.

    - Lati@s. Really, I think this is your worst nightmare. An offensive Latios with let's say 3 moves and LO will be a major nuisance. It kills Virizion and stop any attempt to sweep, Psychock deals a ton to Lanturn (2HKO with SR iirc), it crushs Scizor with HP Fire (and anyway, just a LO boosted DM will ruin your Scizor), Latias gets outsped and killed, Mamo can hit hard with Ice Shard but it's not a good solution because it does kill get the OHKO, and Latios can switch out anyway, Terrakion gets killed. And it's just an example, any version would be really annoying to face in my opinion. It comes from the fact that your only Dragon resistance is incredibly frail on the SpD side. On top of that, your team is really slow, so Latios will get the upper hand in the speed fight easily.

    I think you rely too much on Latias, it's supposed to deal with many threats but I'm afraid that it's harder during a real game.

    The changes :

    - I think you should do the HP Ice over HP Rock change that people mentionned.

    - Same goes for Volt-Switch on Lanturn.

    - I would replace Mamoswine with a Scarf Jirachi. Ice Punch / Iron Head / U-Turn / SR. The pivoting possibilities between Jirachi and Wish Latias are really ideal. Thus, the fact that you're scarfed here and don't have recovery won't hurt too much Jirachi. You get a real switch in to Lati@s which is... something that you need badly. You can still revenge kill Dragons, and now you have a fckd up win condition in Iron Head spam *don't look at me like that*.
    U-Turn along with Lanturn will be great. Let's be honest, it would be probably better with a Rotom-W over Lanturn, and a non Wish Latias (since Rotom-W can heal through Pain Split). But I want you to keep your Lanturn/Virizion/WishTias "core".

    - I'd replace Terrakion by Keldeo. Now you have a better typing synergy. But I'd go for the EBelt set here probably. You can lure Celebi for real, and kill Lati@s if they try to switch in an Icy Wind. You get another decent answer to Scizor. This has been said before, I just don't like the Scarf set here, because Celebi will be even more painful for you if you choose this set.

    No need to post Sets I guess, you probably know them very well. As I said, I tried to respect your creative core as much as I could, I hope that it did not impact my rate too much.
    Was cool to rate a team like that, although I hate Lanturn, this stupid fish is unkillable with a ResTalk set.

    I hope I helped, good luck and have fun with your team.
  13. The Unlucky one

    The Unlucky one

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2012
    Messages:
    912
    Hey Dr. Ciel and co. Nice team! I was actually planning to post a team rather similar to that one over my current one but I decided that Jumpluff was cooler to show off :) Virizion is beastly anyway though. We should really teambuild together actually. Anyway, about the threats. The main threats to your team are the main pokemon that deal with Virizion (this is what makes me rather question the building process but nvm, Lanturn was a cool touch tho). Scizor, Latios and Celebi can take a huge dump on your team really well due to your lack of proper answers to it. This is what's gonna make me decide to go with everyone else here and say Replace Scarf Terrakion with Keldeo. Remedy mentioned an Ebelt set which would really help lure celebi and Lati@s to an extent but you really need that revenge killing prowess so I think you should keep the scarf.

    When you keep the Scarf, Celebi and Lati@s will still remain as some issues. You really don't have a reliable pokemon to either switch-in to them or even hurt them sometimes. One thing I can see in that team that it really relies on the use of Scizor (even Scizor doesn't check it too well though) in order to check Celebi and Lati@s which is still hard for it to do due to the lack of Pursuit (Virizion works brilliantly with Pursuit support together with Keldeo) This is why I would recommend a Bulky Trapper Scizor over your current SD one Bulky Trapper Scizor gives your team a lot more overall offensive utility while supporting strong momentum with U-Turn, a rather bulky backbone to rely on that has great type synergy with Latias, and has Pursuit support in order to get rid of your primary threats. Overall, your team would really appreciate Scizor as more of a offensive utility mon as your team really badly needs some threats out of the way.

    Yeah I think that's how your team can get more efficient. Great team Dr. Ciel, BlackRussian, and CoolStoryBrobat!

    Sets (open)


    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Roost

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Surf
    - Secret Sword
    - Hidden Power [Ice]

  14. CTC

    CTC The Lord Shepherd shall guideth ye cattle
    is a World Cup of Pokemon defending champion

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2012
    Messages:
    315
    The only thing stopping opposing sd scizor from sweeping you is ur own scizor, which depending on speed ties may or may not win. Terrak can spam life orb hits seeing as nothing takes lo stone edges (2hkos latias w rocks) and since latias literally can't do a thing to ttar it'll just get pursuited, allowing keld/rak to spam unresisted fighting moves. loom can also do a number on the team. Since nothing outspeeds/traps latis they come in on 4/6 mons not locked into a s/e move and ohkos everything bar 2 mons. If u remedy the zor problem by replacing scarf rak with scarf keld then sun volc sweeps rather easily. skarm comes in on 4 mons to set up spikes which hits 5 mons and can't be spun. i would just change the lati set to standard lo or sub cm, terrak to keldeo, and replace viri and lanturn with 2 competent mons. I understand it's hard to stray away from the status quo but not all underused mons are underrated or have good synergy with ou mons/ have a niche in the meta.
  15. Okeado

    Okeado

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    27
    IMO, you're using lanturn wrong, you should pick either spd + hp or def + hp. I see 3 of your team has a weakness to fighting with only the Latias as a counter. Same thing with ground.

    Dragonite would make your team extremely scary, and if it has a spd Lanturn to fall back on...
  16. Himper

    Himper

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    14
    Only 2 are weak to Fighting and Ground. Anyway I think you should replace Focus blast -> Sacred Sword. This allows you to hit Blissey harder and make up for the unreliable accuracy. Another possible thing is I think you should go for bulky Scizor. Use the EVs 200 Attack / 160 HP / 148 Sp Def. I think that most things around Scizors base Speed don't even really invest in Speed EVs anyway, so put some of that Speed into Scizors bulk to give him survivability.
  17. Okeado

    Okeado

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    27
    I count scizor because it doesn't really survive more than 1 turn. I agree withe focus blast change, it will cost you the game much faster.
  18. voidzone

    voidzone

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2011
    Messages:
    54
    I've tested the team a bit by myself and found it pretty impressive, especially since I'm a big fan of Lanturn anyway ;)
    I think one thing from the original post has been a bit overlooked IMO, the idea of replacing Terrakion with Scarf Infernape. Sure, (Belt)Keldeo is a better pokemon choice in the current meta in general, but Scarf Nape with U-Turn/Flare Blitz provides a lot more benefit in this team's context, resisting Scizor's bullet punch and threaten him out in return, outspeeding both -Celebi and Latios- and OHKO or at least hit them very hard with U-Turn, which provides in addition a further method of gaining easy momentum.
    In the same run I would advice against Volt Switch > Discharge on Lanturn, for two simple reasons. First - this team lacks a spinner, which is perfectly fine as it as, but extending the voltturn thing -especially on lanturn, which is meant to be bulky- requires some way of minimizing the entry damage. The other thing is, that I often found it pretty uncomfortable to have to voltswitch out vs. things that lanturn otherwise could handle well, even more so since volt switch from this thing doesn't hit that hard.
  19. Okeado

    Okeado

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    27
    For the most part, if volt switch wouldn't have killed in a few turns, then you have a problem. When I run volt switch, it almost always does a good chunk of damage, which I can switch in my revenge killer, without the revenge.
  20. CoolStoryBrobat

    CoolStoryBrobat The hero Smogon needs, but not the one it deserves
    is a Battle Server Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2012
    Messages:
    712
    Alright, guys. We all been testing the team a bit but right now I do wanna at least talk about the big current changes I've been rocking to some degree of success, at least on my end. My pals Dr. Ciel and Blackrussian, I dunno which changes they may or may not have made, but I feel I should at least talk about the ones I've been testing:


    Bulky Trapper Scizor > Offensive Swords Dance Scizor, as suggested by The Unlucky One. It really helps me deal with Lati@s and Celebi pretty effectively, and I like the bulk it has over the original set we were running. What I also like is it still has some power behind its hits, and the little VoltTurn thing I got going on with Lanturn.

    Show Hide
    Scizor @ Leftovers
    Trait: Technician
    EVs: 248 HP / 44 Atk / 216 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bullet Punch
    - U-turn
    - Pursuit
    - Roost


    And because I just said that "VoltTurn thing I got going on with Lanturn," it's quite obvious that I've changed Discharge to Volt Switch, that's a change I'm not regretting or looking back over. And now even though this completely defies the standard spread, and it's something I'm testing for the sake of testing, I actually switched Lanturn's EV spread from 40 HP/252 Def/216 SpDef to 252 HP/40 Def/216 SpDef. Mainly because I was getting annoyed at Lanturn's frailty. Even though it's got a huge HP stat with near no investment, it just wasn't cutting it for me. I mean, it's been able to tank most hits a bit better, and has Scald for that physical coverage (lol, like I ever even get burns when I use it)... Oh yeah, also pondering on Water Absorb > Volt Absorb on Lanturn. Just pondering, anyways...

    Next change I made myself was the other big one everyone's suggested, HP Rock to HP Ice on Virizion. Because every team can use a couple Pokes with Ice moves in OU, right? Even though Virizion can't nab anymore surprise kills on the occasional Volcarona, I can at least hit guys like Gliscor and such for much better damage than before.

    Now the next change was a huge one, suggested by Remedy, of replacing Mamoswine with Scarf Jirachi:

    Show Hide
    Best Wishes (Jirachi) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Iron Head
    - Ice Punch
    - U-turn
    - Stealth Rock


    It's somewhat of an iffy change because I lose the sheer power and imminently threatening presence in Mamoswine, but I now get a huge amount of surprise factor behind me, simply because due to Team Preview, no one would ever assume this Jirachi is Scarfed. Two, as Remedy has said, I have a solid Lati@s switch-in, and I still have the ability to gain momentum as well as threaten Celebi with a surprise U-Turn from outta nowhere. I had a lot of fun using this thing, even though it's not as tough as Mamoswine, it packs a punch of its own as long as I play it right.

    Last major team change I made, something else I've gotten some suggestions to do, is Keldeo > Terrakion for the ability to not get threatened by Scizor while still providing an offensive presence. However since I just told you I put Scarf Jirachi, I REALLY wouldn't want to restrict myself by having Scarf Keldeo as well. So in tandem with another of Remedy's suggestions, I'm specifically running Expert Belt Keldeo, to incredible success.

    Show Hide
    Keenan (Keldeo) @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
    Timid Nature
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power [Electric]


    Sometime before I was running Mamoswine alongside Scarfed Keldeo with Hydro Pump, HP Ice, Secret Sword, and Surf, and it was pretty decent but at the same time I felt it occasionally lost me a few games. Expert Belt Keldeo is awesome just off the ability to bluff a choice set alone, if nothing else. And the power it packs is immense, alongside that great pseudo-Tundrabolt coverage in HP Electric and Icy Wind.

    Even though it's not a huge change, I also put Psychic > Psyshock on Latias, specifically to hit Conkeldurr harder as it majorly threatens this team. Not only that but due to being a defensive Latias, Psyshock is really not going to be hitting Blissey super hard either. And if I want to hit Rotom-W for better damage, I have Virizion.

    The team's still not perfect, as some misplays on even the most seemingly minor of things can cost me majorly. It's a bit late and I can't really think up everything that threatens me thus far, but I will say:

    Voidzone, it's funny you mentioned that, as before this RMT was even up, I immediately went to Infernape just for 3 specific reasons:

    A) Completed the Fire/Water/Grass core in Lanturn, Infernape, and Virizion
    B) Still had the base 108 Speed so I wasn't losing any potential speed by taking Terrakion off
    C) Threatened Scizor/Resisted Bullet Punch (Though he doesn't really like taking repetitive unresisted hits upon switching out)
    D) Was one of the best ways for me to check opposing Jirachi, Lati@s (U-Turn), and the ever-present Focus Sash Alakazam, who usually makes this team shudder in fear. The U-Turn really gave me a fighting chance against Psychic-types to weaken them and gain momentum, as well as broke Alakazam's Focus Sash.

    For real, I will play around with the setup some more but this is what I've got going currently on my end; I can't say the same for my compadres, Dr. Ciel and Blackrussian, and I don't want to try and suddenly diverge from the plan by doing my own thing, so I try to keep up with them on changes and such.
  21. dcae

    dcae naughty list

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,174
    I just wanted to ask, wouldn't Hidden Power Bug be superior over Hidden Power Electric because thanks to Expert Belt, you can easily bluff the Choice set, lure in Celebi, and then smash it with Hidden Power Bug. Gyarados is completely shut down by Lanturn, which renders it a lower issue than Celebi, who walls your sweeper Virizion completely. Those are just my extra two cents. I think ScarfRachi was a great addition, forming a good Volt-Turn core with Scizor and Lanturn, while also being a good switch-in for Latios, boosted back up by Wish support. The thing about adding ScarfRachi is that now, you are Volcarona weak. If it sets up Quiver Dance, it can rip through your team pretty easily, if is running a set of Quiver Dance/Fire Blast/Bug Buzz/Giga Drain. The only thing I see helping this is if Scarf Keldeo or Infernape is run, but that once again is a change you understandibly might not be willing to make.
  22. chimpact

    chimpact fire nation
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,622
    I am going to have to agree with ctc. Virizion and Lanturn might be fun mons to use, but your team becomes so much vulnerable to common threats like Scizor, Breloom, Terrakion, (physical) jirachi, and landorus. They pretty much get a kill everytime they switch in and your team is not offensive enough to deal with these threats after they come back turn after turn.

    I would immediately replace Virizion with Landorus-T. It is easily one of the best answers to physical pokemon and your team obviously struggles dealing with them. You can either put u-turn or stealth rock on it depending on how you want to handle rotom. With u-turn landorus itself can handle it a bit better not relying on stone edge's shaky accuracy but if you go with stealth rock on it you can replace Stealth rock on Mamoswine for superpower to try to deal some damage to it.

    The combination of Lando + latias allows you to handle breloom a lot better than letting 3-4 pokemon faint or potentially swept.

    Additionally lanturn is pretty good for handling rotom, but without other defensive pokemon on your team to handle set up sweepers and without volt switch it's really not going to be very productive. I think you could replace it with keldeo. It can take random water/ice moves that will be more of a problem because you are using landorus-T, and with Mamo/scizor/lando you have a good core to effectively weaken it and open up a sweep with one of your other pokemon.


    sets (open)

    Keldeo @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Surf
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword

    Landorus-T (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Stealth Rock / u-turn
    - Earthquake
    - Stone Edge
    - Hidden Power [Ice] / U-turn


    Hope I helped!
  23. VN.

    VN. the birds pt. 1
    is a Team Rater Alumnus

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2011
    Messages:
    943
    As it's already been said, this team is sort of hard-pressed to stop SD Scizor which can survive a hit from any mon really [probably would set up on Latias if shes scouted for] and then just Swords Dance and kill everything with Bpunch while Lanturn dies to Bug Bite. I understand the logic with Virizion and Scizor and Scizor setting up on Viris main counter in Latias, but Remedy sort of pointed out the fallacy there since Latias that carry HP Fire demolish Scizor and just sort of sit there for the whole game and you can't really do anything to stop it, so Virizion can't sweep. Another sort of fundamental problem with this team is that it's pretty susceptible to hazards but it doesn't hit hard enough to mitigate that weakness. Anyways I'd just take what Chimpakt said and try Landorus-T but I'd put it over Mamoswine. I'd also slap Swords Dance on him just to get pressure on Skarmory, Hippo, etc to replace Mamoswine's lost offensive presence. I'd also swap out Lanturn for the Keldeo that was suggested, I'd run Calm Mind but Expert Belt's fine too, another cool idea you might want to try with him is to use Acrobatics flying gem Scizor because he lures in a lot of Keldeos counters [Jellicent, Tenta] and owns them, the only drawback is that you'll be relegated to breaking stall from the special side since Skarmory just sits in front of Scizor if he decides to carry Acro>Superpower. Finally you could try Nasty Plot Celebi since it 6kos a lot of the commons tall builds this gen and gives another check to Breloom, Scizor and the like.

    Show Hide
    Keldeo @ Expert Belt
    Trait: Justified
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)
    - Hydro Pump
    - Secret Sword
    - Icy Wind
    - Hidden Power Bug/Electric

    Landorus-T @ Leftovers
    Trait: Intimidate
    EVs: 200 HP / 64 Atk / 244 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SpA]
    -Stealth Rock
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -Swords Dance

    Probably want to adjust the EVs here to give him more atk but its like 2 am, so maybe I'll edit it in later

    Celebi @ Leftovers
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 220 HP / 252 SpA / 36 Spe
    Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Giga Drain
    - Hidden Power [Fire] / Hidden Power [Ice]
    - Earth Power

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